replace rules with

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imblyings
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replace rules with

Unread postby imblyings » Sun May 13, 2018 12:49 pm #409801

an explanation of the process in which admins make decisions and what factors they look for, since attempting to make a catch-all rule has so far not quite worked as well in the last decade

for example, conflict between non-antags may be written as

Admins will look at the following factors when ruling on conflict between non-antags. Who started the conflict, for what reason, attempts at de-escalation or retaliation, whether a player had already sought help from admins, and the information available then to the player. Admins will generally rule against excessive retaliation, ignoring reasonable attempts at de-escalation, and instigators of less reasonable or unnecessary conflict,.


name policy might be,

Admins will generally accept names that are phonetically sound and in the Firstname Lastname format, that could be roughly believed to be plausible in a wacky sci-fi setting. There are allowances for names that don't seem very name like, but in doubt, contacting admins first and asking them to approve weirder names (and to have them leave a note to that effect in your notes) is highly advised to avoid any hassle. Having a gimmick or being a good player will likely help in having weirder names.


ooc policy might be,

Discussing, mentioning, or referencing in any way anything that is going on IC in OOC can be met with instant bans from admins. There is a zero-tolerance tradition for this. If you have a genuine question about something IC that you are unsure of, it is preferred you adminhelp if you can not be absolutely sure about saying anything IC in OOC. However, admins are likely to be more lenient on questions on things like normal game mechanics "how do I work xenobiology to get gold slimes?" than questions like "how do I arm the nuke as a nuke op??"


In this way, players both get something resembling rules that might cover a bit more but also believe they have an open and more transparent understanding of how admins make decisions, and hopefully model the way they play after them. For admins, this is also a chance for how we enforce rules to shape the rules, rather than have the rules shape how we enforce the rules. None of us strictly follow the rules as written, there is no actual hope of doing so, most of us probably already go off an internalized balance of what is fair or not. Pinpointing the most common factors we like to consider should be much easier, especially since this is something also easily taught to trialmins and admin candidates- it would be hard overriding their experience of SS13 but it should be easier teaching them basic adminhelp procedure which also transfers over to bette rrules.
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Bluespace
 
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Re: replace rules with

Unread postby Bluespace » Sun May 13, 2018 12:58 pm #409803

ausops once again being the only person in the community able to effectively handle policy
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TehSteveo
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Re: replace rules with

Unread postby TehSteveo » Sun May 13, 2018 1:12 pm #409807

To be honest though, rule zero allows such flexibility to enforce rules from a case to case basis. Maybe expanding rule zero in that admins are free to be flexible within how to handle certain situations as the rules are not meant to be concrete. I would say sure to such a process, but it feels like a lot work to write out explanations that may not cover everything that admins do; so having a set of rules is something that should be a basic foundation.
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imblyings
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Re: replace rules with

Unread postby imblyings » Sun May 13, 2018 1:18 pm #409811

The flexibility already exists yes, but I believe this is a chance to explain the decision process behind case-by-case rulings. The admins should be just as enabled as before- but now players should have an understanding of why things are case-by-case, and maybe even think about the factors themselves. The admin guide roughly covers most things a new admin should think about when dealing with an ahelp, I feel that minimum is enough to cover the gamut of possible admin interactions.

Some rules might need to stay rules e.g. no exploits, no erp, but for the rules where admins have to keep on using rule 0 I think opening the inner workings of process a little bit will help.
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Re: replace rules with

Unread postby Dr_bee » Sun May 13, 2018 2:13 pm #409826

More transparency in how admins make decisions is a good thing, but I dont think it should outright replace the rules, just should be a forward to the rule list.

Generally being open with the fact that admins are people too, and communicating how they do their job will make things much smoother in general.

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Cobby
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Re: replace rules with

Unread postby Cobby » Sun May 13, 2018 5:28 pm #409892

I honestly don’t expect people who this would be applicable to to go through the effort of looking at the several different locations to figure out the server rules when in reality most admins, being different people, make decisions differently (obviously there’s some overlap).

Most people who play don’t care about our little monopoly mini-government, and most of them don’t even read the rules now, they just play in good faith which is all I really ask of for people who are here to have fun.
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imblyings
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Re: replace rules with

Unread postby imblyings » Sun May 13, 2018 5:42 pm #409896

Ideally we could reduce things to rule 0 and 1 but we can't. Despite admin differences, they all should be looking at common factors as part of basic procedure and variation in rulings shouldn't be drastically different if they adhere to it. Opening this standard procedure to approaching issues to the public should only be helpful.

While the rules don't get used often they get used often enough to have threads on it so there is no question of why not improving them.
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Cobby
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Re: replace rules with

Unread postby Cobby » Sun May 13, 2018 5:44 pm #409897

Sorry I forgot to quote the post about having it as a forward.

I don’t mind if it’s on the rules direct
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imblyings
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Re: replace rules with

Unread postby imblyings » Sun May 13, 2018 6:25 pm #409910

It would be an edit or addition to the main page
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Re: replace rules with

Unread postby BeeSting12 » Sun May 13, 2018 7:11 pm #409929

It could be added but i really hate making the rules page longer since it's already too long for a 2d atmos simulator imo
Edward Sloan, THE LAW
Melanie Flowers, Catgirl
Borgasm, Cyborg
Spoiler:
OOC: Hunterh98: to be fair sloan is one of the, if not the, most robust folks on tg

DEAD: Schlomo Gaskin says, "sloan may be a faggot but he gets the job done"

DEAD: Rei Ayanami says, "YOU'RE EVERYWHERE WHERE BAD SHIT IS HAPPENING"
DEAD: Rei Ayanami says, "IT'S ALWAYS FUCKING EDWARD SLOAN"
oranges wrote:Bee sting is honestly the nicest admin, I look forward to seeing him as a headmin one day

I was around for a good time, not a long time...

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Re: replace rules with

Unread postby Shadowflame909 » Sun May 13, 2018 9:03 pm #409969

That last rule sounds pretty harsh, If I accidentally icky in oocky an admin can give me the ban hammer? That sucks.

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Re: replace rules with

Unread postby BeeSting12 » Sun May 13, 2018 9:19 pm #409975

they can but it doesnt mean they will. ive seen several people get banned for a long chain of accidental IC in OOC.
Edward Sloan, THE LAW
Melanie Flowers, Catgirl
Borgasm, Cyborg
Spoiler:
OOC: Hunterh98: to be fair sloan is one of the, if not the, most robust folks on tg

DEAD: Schlomo Gaskin says, "sloan may be a faggot but he gets the job done"

DEAD: Rei Ayanami says, "YOU'RE EVERYWHERE WHERE BAD SHIT IS HAPPENING"
DEAD: Rei Ayanami says, "IT'S ALWAYS FUCKING EDWARD SLOAN"
oranges wrote:Bee sting is honestly the nicest admin, I look forward to seeing him as a headmin one day

I was around for a good time, not a long time...

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imblyings
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Re: replace rules with

Unread postby imblyings » Sun May 13, 2018 9:20 pm #409976

No it's a will ban for you specifically
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Re: replace rules with

Unread postby Nilons » Sun May 13, 2018 9:39 pm #409981

Shadowflame909 wrote:That last rule sounds pretty harsh, If I accidentally icky in oocky an admin can give me the ban hammer? That sucks.

Depends on the admin but if it was harmless icky ocky and you have enough of a reason they should not have banned you right there you can contest it
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bandit
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Re: replace rules with

Unread postby bandit » Sun May 13, 2018 10:13 pm #409987

I like the idea but I guarantee that a lot of the playerbase will tl;dr
"I don't see any difference between ERP and rape." -- erro

admin feedback pls

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Re: replace rules with

Unread postby Shadowflame909 » Sun May 13, 2018 11:22 pm #410013

imblyings wrote:No it's a will ban for you specifically
Ok, that's pretty harsh considering the OOC and say verb are right next to each other...

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imblyings
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Re: replace rules with

Unread postby imblyings » Sun May 13, 2018 11:57 pm #410035

better be careful then m80, we're going to be lenient for everyone except you

tldr is an issue that can be mitigated- there's some truth to the rules not really being read by players who'd rather just jump in and play on good faith but any time the rules are being read we may as well make them good
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Re: replace rules with

Unread postby BeeSting12 » Mon May 14, 2018 12:31 am #410069

the tldr here is dont be a cunt
Edward Sloan, THE LAW
Melanie Flowers, Catgirl
Borgasm, Cyborg
Spoiler:
OOC: Hunterh98: to be fair sloan is one of the, if not the, most robust folks on tg

DEAD: Schlomo Gaskin says, "sloan may be a faggot but he gets the job done"

DEAD: Rei Ayanami says, "YOU'RE EVERYWHERE WHERE BAD SHIT IS HAPPENING"
DEAD: Rei Ayanami says, "IT'S ALWAYS FUCKING EDWARD SLOAN"
oranges wrote:Bee sting is honestly the nicest admin, I look forward to seeing him as a headmin one day

I was around for a good time, not a long time...

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oranges
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Re: replace rules with

Unread postby oranges » Mon May 14, 2018 12:52 am #410076

strongly support this idea
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Re: replace rules with

Unread postby Shadowflame909 » Mon May 14, 2018 12:53 am #410077

I'm starting to think goof was right...

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imblyings
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Re: replace rules with

Unread postby imblyings » Thu May 17, 2018 5:33 pm #411112

Rule 0: Enforcement of these rules and intervention ingame is at the discretion of admins. SS13 and our server experiences and encourages a wide variety of possible player interactions. Admins also apply their own experiences and a common approach when answering ahelps or intervening ingame. Enforcement and intervention will not always be exactly the same. Admins have complete freedom in their actions but at all times should do so in the best interests of /tg/. Where possible, each rule has a more detailed explanation and some long-standing precedents in the sections below written for those with a bit too much time or good-natured patience.


I'm going to post more suggested rewrites of the rules as time goes by, bar the silicon section maybe security, as however messy the silicon rules are I've never found reason to fault them.
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oranges
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Re: replace rules with

Unread postby oranges » Thu May 17, 2018 11:25 pm #411245

why is this not done yet
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Re: replace rules with

Unread postby Lazengann » Thu May 17, 2018 11:38 pm #411248

do people read the rules

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kevinz000
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Re: replace rules with

Unread postby kevinz000 » Mon May 21, 2018 11:28 am #411950

Bluespace wrote:ausops once again being the only person in the community able to effectively handle policy


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