Rule 5 and disallowing deliberate incompetence

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iksyp
 
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Rule 5 and disallowing deliberate incompetence

Unread postby iksyp » Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:50 pm #416801

Recently, this has become a point of contention due to one HoS who played a gimmick to death.
In my eyes, deliberate incompetence should be an IC issue, rather than something that both the crew and admins will get on your case for.

These jobs have a higher responsibility than others due to their power, but there are plenty of options for dealing with deliberate incompetence without bwoinks.
Being deliberately incompetent already kind of valids them to the crew, so why shouldn't the crew deal with it? Even if they do take these jobs every round, all that means is no one else wants to play that job, as seen in the appeal.

tl;dr
remove deliberate incompetence clause from rule 5

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Lazengann
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Re: Rule 5 and disallowing deliberate incompetence

Unread postby Lazengann » Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:07 pm #416803

When your fun starts consistently impacting the fun of other players it's time for an admin to step in

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Re: Rule 5 and disallowing deliberate incompetence

Unread postby DemonFiren » Fri Jun 08, 2018 11:28 pm #416819

Lazengann wrote:When your fun starts consistently impacting the fun of other players it's time for an admin to step in

mandatory "by this logic we must remove antags" post
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Re: Rule 5 and disallowing deliberate incompetence

Unread postby Lazengann » Fri Jun 08, 2018 11:33 pm #416820

Antags make the game more fun sir

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Re: Rule 5 and disallowing deliberate incompetence

Unread postby Dax Dupont » Sat Jun 09, 2018 12:25 am #416834

It's fine to meme once or twice but when you run a meme down into the ground it's time for a spankin'

If a HOP does nothing but hand out all access and fucks off into space each round they'll get a spankin'

Rule 5 always applies, but if it's funny we'll apply the secret rules of life to temporarily excuse you from the rule.

It's an IC issue till you do it every round.

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Re: Rule 5 and disallowing deliberate incompetence

Unread postby iamgoofball » Sat Jun 09, 2018 12:28 am #416836

Dax Dupont wrote:If a HOP does nothing but hand out all access and fucks off into space each round they'll get a spankin'

assistants do this every round

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Dax Dupont
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Re: Rule 5 and disallowing deliberate incompetence

Unread postby Dax Dupont » Sat Jun 09, 2018 12:30 am #416837

iamgoofball wrote:
Dax Dupont wrote:If a HOP does nothing but hand out all access and fucks off into space each round they'll get a spankin'

assistants do this every round


5. Players in a head of staff, AI/Silicon role, or a team conversion role require a minimum amount of effort; generally considered to be not logging out at or near roundstart.
Notify admins if you cannot play these roles and must leave near round start and make an attempt to inform other players IC as well for head of staff or AI roles. Abuse of a job position, particularly Rule 1 breaking abuse, is not allowed.


Rule 5 doesn't apply to assistants till you either take their brains out and cram them in a metal shell or they get converted by team antags.

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Re: Rule 5 and disallowing deliberate incompetence

Unread postby CosmicScientist » Sat Jun 09, 2018 1:40 am #416855

I assume nudging the crew to be insubordinate or getting other authority figures to subdue and demote/hold a trial for incompetence would be more fun.

But if this is repeat behaviour that isn't getting any better and isn't providing fun for firstly their department then secondly the station I don't see why a ban of any length for the role shouldn't be an option.
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Re: Rule 5 and disallowing deliberate incompetence

Unread postby kevinz000 » Sat Jun 09, 2018 4:16 am #416865

no one cares if someone is incompetent a few times unless they throw their guns everywhere and run around batonning people blow up the engine etc etc but if they do it round after round after round ad infinitum it becomes an issue.
this is like most other things that we mostly allow until someone does it to the point where there's zero fun left to be squeezed out of their "gimmick".

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Re: Rule 5 and disallowing deliberate incompetence

Unread postby Rustledjimm » Sat Jun 09, 2018 4:17 am #416866

The issue here is we are not stopping stupid gimmicks as a Head of staff (as long as said gimmick doesn't end up in a lot of dead people) but running said gimmick into the ground every single round you play.

We do exactly the same thing with tiders. If someone rushes the captains ID at roundstart every single round they will eventually find themselves with a bwoink. Yet nobody complains about that.
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Re: Rule 5 and disallowing deliberate incompetence

Unread postby subject217 » Sat Jun 09, 2018 4:21 am #416867

If someone's gimmick as a head role every shift is "I'm going to be a useless asshole to the detriment of everyone else in my department" and they do this consistently over a significant period of time then it becomes an admin issue. Nobody gets banned for being stupid/bad at their job intentionally or otherwise for one round, or even a couple of rounds. The way the recent ban was handled was partially erroneous, but there was nothing wrong with bwoinking the guy and telling him to stop.

If you allow headstaff to be consistently deliberately incompetent any time they'd like for as long as they'd like then you remove the point of headstaff, and it just becomes "one lucky asshole gets the extra loot in his department this shift".

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Re: Rule 5 and disallowing deliberate incompetence

Unread postby RandomMarine » Sat Jun 09, 2018 7:48 am #416882

Just don't ever interpret deliberate incompetence as not playing the game competitively.

People should always be free to act like Captain Murphy on occasion.

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Re: Rule 5 and disallowing deliberate incompetence

Unread postby Gigapuddi420 » Sat Jun 09, 2018 8:15 am #416889

I like the occasional incompetent or wacky Head of Staff, it breaks up the monotony, creating interesting and unique situations. On the other hand, intent is pretty important and when your gimmick makes a departments life hard round after round the gimmick quickly becomes stale and detrimental to people who work under you. A little understanding isn't much to ask for.
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Re: Rule 5 and disallowing deliberate incompetence

Unread postby Sometinyprick » Sat Jun 09, 2018 10:10 am #416900

I think most people would agree that head roles doing dumb shit every so often and changing it up isn't necessarily a bad thing, I believe that giving them some freedom to be incompetent is important but as everyone else in this thread has noted it gets old when you are doing it all the time and doing the same thing all the time. I don't even feel a drunk HoS (the example in this case) isn't something you can do every round, as-long as you aren't getting vomit tier drunk for every waking moment you are alive I'd say you are fine to even spend the entire round slightly drunk or parts of the round totally smashed out of your head.

I don't really agree with rules against being deliberately incompetent (only applies to head roles mind you) but I think it's so rarely enforced that it isn't really a problem. To get the attention of an admin you basically have to do what this guy did and keep it going for a straight week before anyone really starts to notice.
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Re: Rule 5 and disallowing deliberate incompetence

Unread postby Gamarr » Sat Jun 09, 2018 4:59 pm #416959

Playing stupid is fine because then your subordinates have a reason to remove and replace you.
Playing stupid generally leads to Shit getting your stuff at some point, to which it snowballs.
Your employees should be replacing your incompetence for the Greater Good and if they're too shit to want to or spineless to do it then they deserve whatever hell happens.

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Re: Rule 5 and disallowing deliberate incompetence

Unread postby ohnopigeons » Sun Jun 10, 2018 1:12 am #417069

Agree with Gamarr, as run to the ground a gimmick may be it's still easily resolvable ICly and should thus should stay an IC issue.

Rustledjimm wrote:The issue here is we are not stopping stupid gimmicks as a Head of staff (as long as said gimmick doesn't end up in a lot of dead people) but running said gimmick into the ground every single round you play.

We do exactly the same thing with tiders. If someone rushes the captains ID at roundstart every single round they will eventually find themselves with a bwoink. Yet nobody complains about that.

I will complain about that. This is another issue resolvable ICly. If there isn't a Captain roundstart or near-roundstart it's highly likely there will be no Captain at all, so as HoP I'll officially promote the break-in tider to Captain, thereby forcing the burden of responsibility of the rank they were hoping to avoid.

If they don't play along I reserve the right to shoot them but that hasn't happened yet so I haven't tested the waters.
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Re: Rule 5 and disallowing deliberate incompetence

Unread postby Pascal125 » Sun Jun 10, 2018 2:12 am #417079

I can't think of any higher form of incompetence then an assistant stealing all-access and giving it out to everyone every round causing the station to descend into chaos and leading to the deaths of multiple people as they defend their workplace from all-access thieves.

And yet they never really seem to get banned.
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Re: Rule 5 and disallowing deliberate incompetence

Unread postby Gamarr » Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:30 am #417126

Because while they're shit I think there is also the view of that if someone just played captain or hoss then the ID would be secured and the tider would be shot by then. So there is no real point in punishing the tider because the playerbase isn't intent on preventing it the easiest way possible anyway; as in just playing the damn role that the ID belongs to or one of the ones that shoots the runner.
I'm assuming, perhaps badly, but I don't think the mark is entirely off.

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Re: Rule 5 and disallowing deliberate incompetence

Unread postby Dax Dupont » Sun Jun 10, 2018 12:09 pm #417147

Pascal125 wrote:I can't think of any higher form of incompetence then an assistant stealing all-access and giving it out to everyone every round causing the station to descend into chaos and leading to the deaths of multiple people as they defend their workplace from all-access thieves.

And yet they never really seem to get banned.


Please read rule 5. It only applies to certain roles.

Also we've warned/banned people for doing the le all access meme 10 rounds in a row.

IT'S ALL ABOUT DOING THINGS IN MODERATION, WE WON'T BAN PEOPLE WHO DO IT A FEW TIMES IF IT'S JUSTIFIABLY FUNNY. JUST NOT EVERY ROUND/AFTER YOU RUN IT INTO THE GROUND.

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Re: Rule 5 and disallowing deliberate incompetence

Unread postby Arianya » Sun Jun 10, 2018 2:20 pm #417179

The point is that while "removing the drunk HoS for incompetence" is fun the first time, when your name becomes known for that to the point where people lean on metagrudging because they know you are immediately going to run to the bar, get drunk, object to doing your job and then pseudo-selfantag by starting a mutiny because you object to being demoted then it's no longer fun or interesting.

Or, to make the more trite post:

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Re: Rule 5 and disallowing deliberate incompetence

Unread postby Screemonster » Sun Jun 10, 2018 2:46 pm #417189

If it's getting to the point where security are pre-emptively waiting to ambush you in the captain's office because they saw your name on the manifest, that's probably a sign that it's gone too far.

The problem with the people screaming metagame/metagrudge about it is that they treat "this asshole always does this one thing so I'll counter that thing" as being the same as "my ghosting buddy just told me what they're doing so I'll counter what they're doing". Like yes on the surface they're both examples of someone reacting to what you're doing without actually observing you doing it in-game but if you're gonna be predictable then you can't really cry foul when people predict you


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