Highpop gamemode: visitors

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Screemonster
 
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Highpop gamemode: visitors

Unread postby Screemonster » Wed Aug 01, 2018 2:24 pm #430524

Okay so there's a code bounty out on gamemodes but I lack the ability to code a gamemode but an idea popped into my head the other day

Essentially: Babylon 5 station. The station and the crew are there, but there are also one or more visiting ships that are going to dock at the station. The crew for these ships is pulled in the same way that nuke ops are, spawning them on their ship at roundstart.

The crew of the visiting ship are given an objective. This objective may be benign, or it may be antagonistic. This is known to the ship crew but not the station, and it's revealed in the end-of-round report - for instance, assisting the visitors with a benign objective is considered a crew (& ship) victory, while letting them accomplish an antagonistic objective is considered a loss for the station crew.

Just to spice up the benign objectives, it may or may not be paired with traitors, pulled from either the ship or station crew. Was the guy on the visiting ship acting on his own when he shot the station captain in the face? Are they really here to assassinate key members of the crew, and their stated goal is just a cover? Is he just there to sabotage the ship's mission by sowing suspicion?
To really mix things up, make a possible antagonistic objective "detonate the disguised nuclear device" so people don't just meta like "it's visitors, so we don't need to guard the disk", ho ho ho. Meanwhile, even benign visitors may have objectives to not allow certain things to be taken from their ship, so they have a reason not to let the tide in.

tl;dr, a ship's coming, and it could be a team traitor mode or it could just be friendlies with regular traitors as usual, or it could be stealth ops, or who the fuck knows



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Re: Highpop gamemode: visitors

Unread postby WarbossLincoln » Wed Aug 01, 2018 6:50 pm #430560

I like the idea. You'd have to hammer down some policy before it's released though.

Are the visitors antags even if they're on a benevolent mission? If not that needs to be exceedingly clear in game. Something like big red text stating your antagonist objectives as a hostile visitor crew with "complete these objectives at all cost" and green text for benevolent crew with something like "you are not an antagonist, normal escalation applies". Something where a benevolent visitor crew would treat their objectives like station goals. Work towards them but escalation applies to how you achieve them. You can retaliate to people actively inhibiting your goals with proportional force(beat them up if they're getting in the way, kill them if they use violence to stop you).

I think making sure that benevolent visitors are not antags would be necessary to stop the crew from just killing all of them at the first sign of trouble since 'muh valids'. The crew would basically have to treat them like any other crewman, respond according to our escalation rules until you discover that the visitor(s) in question are antags.

However your situation of a lone antag on a benevolent crew shooting someone opens up a new policy can of worms. Lets say an antag visitor on a benevolent team murders a head of staff. Can the captain order all the visitors off the station? Can he have them shot as a possible threat? At a minimum he could have them all arrested and searched for weapons. If this situation arises the visitor crew is going to escalate back. At what point could you safely assume that a visiting crew is antagonistic as a whole? These are all great potential IC situations but we have to be realistic about how people behave here. The crew is going to look for the bare minimum excuse to say "welp, the visitors are probably antags, time for valids", it's going to devolve into a bloodbath, then if the visitors were not all antags there's going to be a storm of ahelps from the ones who did not do anything remotely hostile themselves.

I think it's a great idea, but this needs a lot of discussion. If a coder wants to take this on I think there should be a round table with admins about how the game mode should work, agree on some policy, and work with the coder on what if any code requirements need to be put in place to ease the issues.

Addendum: if some coders decide to take this on they should decide on a minimum viable product that can be released as early as possible and then add more features from there. Get a prototype of the round onto a public test server and let people try it out. See what issues arise and how best to handle it. Let admins see if this is going to be a nightmare of policy and also see how the playerbase reacts to the mode and how the admins want to control the policy on it.
--Crocodillo

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Re: Highpop gamemode: visitors

Unread postby wesoda25 » Thu Aug 02, 2018 3:41 am #430680

This is an incredible idea that escapes basically every gamemode we have of presenting an antag and saying: “Its valid go kill it”. Actually seems like a fun semi-high rp game mode. I’ve seen numerous events similar in idea to this, so the admins could probably share some insight.

I’m conflicted as to how you would have the antagonist role the seperate crews play out. I think its an awesome idea for traitors from both sides attempting so sew discontent between the crews and cause a war between their respective command and security departments. Or, the incoming crew with antagonist objectives ranging from positive to theft to murder. Tbh it’d be best to keep multiple types, as you said, so that the nature of the round type is always left in shadow.

All in all its a good change of pace to our modern game modes and fills the hole left gangs, clock cult, and (I guess?) shadowling.

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Re: Highpop gamemode: visitors

Unread postby kevinz000 » Thu Aug 02, 2018 5:22 am #430690

Seems very good.

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Re: Highpop gamemode: visitors

Unread postby Dr_bee » Thu Aug 02, 2018 5:56 am #430694

So basically centcom inspector admin events but in full coded game mode form? It would be pretty neat, but requiring RP in game modes has not really worked in the past (Devil mode for example).

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Re: Highpop gamemode: visitors

Unread postby Screemonster » Thu Aug 02, 2018 7:20 am #430697

Having it coded/weighted as multiple seperate but similar modes might be easier, given that the potential gamut of "hostile ship" "friendly ship with traitors" "friendly ship in extended" "hostile ship with maybe a traitor or two on the crew side just so people can't meta that the ship must be friendly because we caught the janitor with an emag" and so on

policy of where the valids for escalation lie would be a tricky one but ultimately it'd boil down to similar to other situations where a nonantag murdering another nonantag is allowed, like if a changeling commits a very visible crime as you and hides and you later get valid'd, nobody's gonna get banned for it even though both the killer and the victim were nonantags.

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Re: Highpop gamemode: visitors

Unread postby Stickymayhem » Thu Aug 02, 2018 7:51 am #430699

I'm going to run this as an event a couple times to see how it goes and offer some feedback. It seems very simple to set up as an event, I'll just whip up a custom white shuttle.

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Re: Highpop gamemode: visitors

Unread postby Farquaar » Thu Aug 02, 2018 8:41 am #430702

It might be prudent to give hostile visitor ships a unified cover story that matches a benign objective. A small number of visitors could easily make something up and stick to it, but it might aid people new to the gamemode who don't know all the potential objectives in blending in properly.

I have a feeling that the detective and lawyer will get a kick out of this gamemode for sure. Definitely looking forward to trying a prototype round.

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Re: Highpop gamemode: visitors

Unread postby DemonFiren » Thu Aug 02, 2018 11:33 am #430717

wesoda25 wrote:incredible idea

yes, but
wesoda25 wrote:semi-high rp game mode

inevitably leads to
wesoda25 wrote:“Its valid go kill it”
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non-lizard things:
Spoiler:
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Re: Highpop gamemode: visitors

Unread postby WarbossLincoln » Thu Aug 02, 2018 1:03 pm #430730

Farquaar wrote:It might be prudent to give hostile visitor ships a unified cover story that matches a benign objective. A small number of visitors could easily make something up and stick to it, but it might aid people new to the gamemode who don't know all the potential objectives in blending in properly.

I have a feeling that the detective and lawyer will get a kick out of this gamemode for sure. Definitely looking forward to trying a prototype round.



That's a good idea. Randomize a fake benign objective that's in every visitor's memories to help them all stick to the same overall story.

Sticky, are you going to post a possible time for running the experiment cause I'd like to try it out if I'm free whenever you do it.
--Crocodillo

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Stickymayhem
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Re: Highpop gamemode: visitors

Unread postby Stickymayhem » Thu Aug 02, 2018 1:22 pm #430732

cmspano wrote:
Farquaar wrote:It might be prudent to give hostile visitor ships a unified cover story that matches a benign objective. A small number of visitors could easily make something up and stick to it, but it might aid people new to the gamemode who don't know all the potential objectives in blending in properly.

I have a feeling that the detective and lawyer will get a kick out of this gamemode for sure. Definitely looking forward to trying a prototype round.



That's a good idea. Randomize a fake benign objective that's in every visitor's memories to help them all stick to the same overall story.

Sticky, are you going to post a possible time for running the experiment cause I'd like to try it out if I'm free whenever you do it.


Uhhhh keep an eye on #events-workshop-general I guess

Or become a patreon ;)

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Re: Highpop gamemode: visitors

Unread postby WarbossLincoln » Thu Aug 02, 2018 1:29 pm #430733

>become a patreon

I might actually do that. I've been thinking of backing a couple patreon funded things I frequent. Mostly this and InrangeTV
--Crocodillo

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Stickymayhem
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Re: Highpop gamemode: visitors

Unread postby Stickymayhem » Thu Aug 02, 2018 2:08 pm #430740

cmspano wrote:>become a patreon

I might actually do that. I've been thinking of backing a couple patreon funded things I frequent. Mostly this and InrangeTV


Well here it is bud https://www.patreon.com/stickymayhem

I just got over some dumb patreon editing bug but OOC dweebs asked if I had one so I made it.

I'll spruce it up with a video at some point

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Re: Highpop gamemode: visitors

Unread postby SpaceManiac » Sun Aug 05, 2018 12:52 am #431238

If/when you run this, please report back. I like this idea and might take a stab at coding it if it looks like it will go over well with players.

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Re: Highpop gamemode: visitors

Unread postby Stickymayhem » Sun Aug 05, 2018 1:19 am #431240

I ran it once and it didnt go great. Partly for shuttlecode reasons but also a couple of the non antag visitors just started murderboning. I'll give it another go with better people.

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Re: Highpop gamemode: visitors

Unread postby Dr_bee » Sun Aug 05, 2018 12:29 pm #431310

Visitor story idea, time travelers. crewmembers from the future come to solve a problem, and have to make sure their past selves survive or they dust. Primary antagonistic force would be a chrono legionnaire, or other time travlers.

dont think to hard about it, just give them a protect objective for their past selves and another objective to set right what went wrong.

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Re: Highpop gamemode: visitors

Unread postby Jaredfogle » Sun Aug 12, 2018 11:58 am #432592

They all have the one, same objective? What are some examples of objectives that are game defining enough to where this would warrant a gamemode?

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Re: Highpop gamemode: visitors

Unread postby Stickymayhem » Sun Aug 12, 2018 1:25 pm #432602

Jaredfogle wrote:They all have the one, same objective? What are some examples of objectives that are game defining enough to where this would warrant a gamemode?


The one I ran had the objective to escape on the emergency shuttle.

However, several of the crew were carriers for a horrible disease, so centcom would want them quarantined and left behind, while they selfishly wanted to escape regardless of spreading the infection.

It worked out alright.

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Re: Highpop gamemode: visitors

Unread postby aradsten » Mon Aug 13, 2018 12:24 pm #432807

One objective could be that tourists are arriving and you must provide them with food,lodging and a tour. They could secretly be traitors wich would make sec paranoid and so on.

It could also be space entrepreneurs coming to sell bizare product like a "gold honker™"!

Or space refugees

Or an invading force of clowns

Or maybe if the station is in a state of emergency the red cross could arrive at the station

its pretty wide tbh

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Re: Highpop gamemode: visitors

Unread postby Jaredfogle » Tue Aug 14, 2018 6:40 am #432941

aradsten wrote:One objective could be that tourists are arriving and you must provide them with food,lodging and a tour. They could secretly be traitors wich would make sec paranoid and so on.

It could also be space entrepreneurs coming to sell bizare product like a "gold honker™"!

Or space refugees

Or an invading force of clowns

Or maybe if the station is in a state of emergency the red cross could arrive at the station

its pretty wide tbh


I think I'm starting to get the picture, yeah. I'm not sure how some of those would work code-wise considering they're more RP oriented, though.

Also a lot of those ideas seem better as a random event rather than a gamemode? Perhaps this could work as both?

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Re: Highpop gamemode: visitors

Unread postby aradsten » Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:29 am #432960

Jaredfogle wrote:Also a lot of those ideas seem better as a random event rather than a gamemode? Perhaps this could work as both?


Yea i mostly see it as a way to add more game too the game you know. Doesent matter what you would call it.

And you dont have to code everything. Sometimes rp is just what you need to spice the game up :popcorn:

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Re: Highpop gamemode: visitors

Unread postby Luke Cox » Wed Aug 15, 2018 11:10 pm #433167

You could do so much cool shit with this. There would be actual P A R A N O I A. Really hope someone decides to pick this up.
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Re: Highpop gamemode: visitors

Unread postby Screemonster » Wed Aug 15, 2018 11:59 pm #433173

Yeah, the thing I'm drawing a blank on is what sort of objectives they might need, like...

Their engine is broken, they need help from the station to repair/replace it.
They have stuff to sell. Acquire credits. Don't sell their stuff at a loss or let it get stolen. (dunno how best to do this 'cause most items don't have a "credit value" attached)
A bunch of the crew have some sort of medical issue that requires treatment in the station's medbay. Possibly a virus. Objective is simply to keep the (non-traitor) ship crew alive until the end of the round.
They're literally just stopping off to refuel and don't actually have an objective. (extended only)
They've been told to say they're stopping off to refuel, but have a secret goal to pass some documents to NT. The documents must be in the possession of a non-traitor crewmember when the shuttle docks at central command. Stationbound traitors simply receive the mission "foil the visiting ship's plans" so announcing the existence of these secret plans over open comms is probably a bad idea if you don't want to run the risk of the captain getting slipped and the documents tossed into space.

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Re: Highpop gamemode: visitors

Unread postby Jaredfogle » Thu Aug 16, 2018 3:42 am #433194

Screemonster wrote:Yeah, the thing I'm drawing a blank on is what sort of objectives they might need, like...

Their engine is broken, they need help from the station to repair/replace it.
They have stuff to sell. Acquire credits. Don't sell their stuff at a loss or let it get stolen. (dunno how best to do this 'cause most items don't have a "credit value" attached)
A bunch of the crew have some sort of medical issue that requires treatment in the station's medbay. Possibly a virus. Objective is simply to keep the (non-traitor) ship crew alive until the end of the round.
They're literally just stopping off to refuel and don't actually have an objective. (extended only)
They've been told to say they're stopping off to refuel, but have a secret goal to pass some documents to NT. The documents must be in the possession of a non-traitor crewmember when the shuttle docks at central command. Stationbound traitors simply receive the mission "foil the visiting ship's plans" so announcing the existence of these secret plans over open comms is probably a bad idea if you don't want to run the risk of the captain getting slipped and the documents tossed into space.


I really like the idea and am possibly interested in coding it (especially if you can come up with more ideas for objectives), but again, what makes this better as a gamemode than a random event?

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Re: Highpop gamemode: visitors

Unread postby Not-Dorsidarf » Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:22 am #433236

the stuff-to-sell thing could work like pirates, in that they need to leave the station with more value than they arrive with?

mid-round minor ships could be:
-here to deliver a pizza to three specific crewmembers
-here to pickup a perma prisoner for transfer to centcomm (possibly leading to shenaningans if sec dont have any... yet)
-here to obtain weed from botany, and they have a briefcase of cash to accomplish this.
-here to have the chaplain hold a funeral for their dead crewmate
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Re: Highpop gamemode: visitors

Unread postby Luke Cox » Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:52 am #433239

Jaredfogle wrote:
Screemonster wrote:Yeah, the thing I'm drawing a blank on is what sort of objectives they might need, like...

Their engine is broken, they need help from the station to repair/replace it.
They have stuff to sell. Acquire credits. Don't sell their stuff at a loss or let it get stolen. (dunno how best to do this 'cause most items don't have a "credit value" attached)
A bunch of the crew have some sort of medical issue that requires treatment in the station's medbay. Possibly a virus. Objective is simply to keep the (non-traitor) ship crew alive until the end of the round.
They're literally just stopping off to refuel and don't actually have an objective. (extended only)
They've been told to say they're stopping off to refuel, but have a secret goal to pass some documents to NT. The documents must be in the possession of a non-traitor crewmember when the shuttle docks at central command. Stationbound traitors simply receive the mission "foil the visiting ship's plans" so announcing the existence of these secret plans over open comms is probably a bad idea if you don't want to run the risk of the captain getting slipped and the documents tossed into space.


I really like the idea and am possibly interested in coding it (especially if you can come up with more ideas for objectives), but again, what makes this better as a gamemode than a random event?

What makes this better than an event is scope. An event shouldn't monopolize the entire round. They're meant to be little fluff things to make long, monotonous rounds more interesting. The idea here, from what I gather from the OP, is that multiple groups of visitors will be on the station simultaneously (let's say groups of 3-5 a ship, and 3-4 ships total). Some of them will be benevolent, some benign, some malicious, and the crew will have no way of knowing which is which, or how many hostile groups there are. For additional fuckery, you could make only a single member of a visiting party a traitor, and watch the crew decide whether they should lynch the whole group. You could go as far as to spawn a few regular traitors among the station crew, make it "visitor + traitor" mode. It's a brilliant idea that creates a paranoia laden RP-like experience through little to no actual RP.

As for objectives, I got you fam. They can fall into four categories: Benevolent, benign, solo traitor, team traitor. These are all mechanically enforceable, but flavor objectives are always a possibility

Benevolent
Humanitarian aid crews who are there to help. Their goal is to assist the crew in any way possible.
  • Ensure that a crew member escapes alive
  • Ensure that [actual traitor] is in your ship's prison cell at round end
  • Ensure that x % of the crew is alive at round end
  • Allow x number of crew members to escape in your ship at the end

Benign
These guys are mostly concerned with obtaining supplies and keeping their ship safe. Harmless, as long as you don't try to plunder their ship.
  • Obtain x amount of plasma to fuel your ship
  • Build [machine] on your ship
  • Obtain [non-sensitive item]
  • Protect [valuable item] on your ship
Solo traitor
Saboteurs acting as sleeper agents in otherwise benevolent or hostile crews. They have access to an uplink to obtain supplies.
  • Ensure that their crew does not escape
  • Assassinate [station crew member]
  • Steal [sensitive station item]

Malevolent
Organized crews who are come to the station with malevolent intentions. Items required for their objectives, along with some weapons, will spawn on their ship. How they distribute/conceal these items is up to them.
  • Assassinate [entire rival crew or multiple station crew members]
  • Destroy the station's supermatter crystal
  • Escape with X amount of space cash from the vault
  • Upload a hacked law via a provided board AND steal the AI


We've already got several visiting ships coded in the game from admin events. Speaking of which, I've seen a visiting medical ship event a lot recently that's been well received and always seems to run smoothly. One ship would start docked, while the others would be in space very close by (visible from the station). Yes, they have to negotiate the use of one dock. Here are a few other ship ideas:
  • Medical ship
  • Cargo ship
  • Military ship
  • Party ship
  • Research ship

The beauty of OP's idea is that this mode will create constant tension and paranoia between the station crew and the visiting crews. Which crew is malevolent? Is that one visitor you caught trying to kill someone just a lone wolf, or is his whole crew out to get us? Why won't that one crew let us board their ship? Are they hiding something?
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Re: Highpop gamemode: visitors

Unread postby Screemonster » Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:17 am #433244

Oh wow. The best part of some of these is that they can be mixed and matched for extra paranoia, like giving them a benevolent objective and the objective to protect some blatantly-contraband item on board their ship to give them a reason to not let security aboard. Or to kidnap non-traitor crew members. Or a malevolent ship with the goal of exfiltrating as many traitors as possible (traitors have to complete their escape alive goals, being on their ship counts), and so on.

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Re: Highpop gamemode: visitors

Unread postby Dr_bee » Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:26 pm #433279

Making the visitor ships count as escape sources for traitors would be neat as well, especially if they leave before the emergency shuttle. Stowing away or bribing your way off the station with your objective without security knowing would be a neat method to obtain greentext.

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Re: Highpop gamemode: visitors

Unread postby Luke Cox » Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:27 pm #433292

The White Ship already counts as an escape shuttle, so I would imagine that coding visitor ships to act the same way would be trivial.

As for the ships themselves, I have a few more in-depth ideas. Tying specific objectives to specific ships would probably be a pain in the ass, so I think it would be better for the crews to treat it as a loadout they can use creatively to achieve charitable, self-serving, or harmful objectives for benevolent, benign, or malevolent crews respectively.


  • Freighter: Similar to meta's new white ship. Most of the ship is occupied by a large cargo bay. Crates in the cargo bay may hold some construction supplies and other various utility items. Harmful items are provided to malevolent crews. Crewed by a foreman and cargo techs.
  • Medical Frigate: A hospital ship with advanced medical equipment, including an advanced surgery room, pandemic machine, chem dispenser, and cloner. A virus crate and harmful advanced surgery discs are provided to malevolent crews. Crewed by doctors.
  • Research Vessel: R&D in space. Includes an abbreviated xenobio setup, exosuit fabricator, and a small toxins lab. Illegal tech is provided to malevolent crews. Crewed by scientists and roboticists.
  • Party Ship: Booze, space drugs, and a disco! The bastard child of the emergency escape bar and disco inferno. Hard drugs and poisoned drinks are provided to malevolent crews. Crewed by a bartender and party-goers
  • Pilgrim Convoy: Temple ship carrying pilgrims. Most of the ship is dedicated to a large chapel. Demonic-themed weapons are provided to malevolent crews. Crewed by a chaplain and pilgrims.
  • Prisoner Transport: Spess jail. Ship includes a more fleshed out brig, as well as a small armory with nonlethal weapons. Lethal weapons and lethal injection syringes are provided to malevolent crews. Crewed by a warden and guards.

Of course, every ship should have basic facilities like a medical room, engine room, etc. All malevolent crews should get some randomized weapons in addition to their ship-specific items.
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Re: Highpop gamemode: visitors

Unread postby Farquaar » Fri Aug 17, 2018 11:13 pm #433472

Not-Dorsidarf wrote:mid-round minor ships could be:
-here to deliver a pizza to three specific crewmembers

I really, really want this to happen

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Re: Highpop gamemode: visitors

Unread postby Luke Cox » Sat Aug 18, 2018 7:16 am #433525

Farquaar wrote:
Not-Dorsidarf wrote:mid-round minor ships could be:
-here to deliver a pizza to three specific crewmembers

I really, really want this to happen


Mama Miku's Delivery Pizza: The sector's biggest delivery pizza chain. Named for its CEO, who was ousted after making controversial remarks about lizardpeople. She works menial jobs for Nanotrasen to this day. Major features include a kitchen and dining room. Malicious crews get pizza bombs.
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Re: Highpop gamemode: visitors

Unread postby DemonFiren » Sat Aug 18, 2018 10:44 am #433539

>miku
no references

also pizza guys need suspiciously ops-like uniform
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non-lizard things:
Spoiler:
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