[Nabski] Hathkar - Cyborg ban for suicide

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Hathkar
 
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[Nabski] Hathkar - Cyborg ban for suicide

Unread postby Hathkar » Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:35 am #437478

Hathkar - K-U 5. AMI:
Banning admin: Nabski
Ban type (What are you banned from?): Cyborg
Ban reason and length: Banned from Cyborg - Suicided as a borg fnr because the round was about to end.
1440 minutes
Time ban was placed (including time zone): 2018-09-05 02:03:46
Server you were playing when banned (Sybil or Bagil): Bagil
Your side of the story: It was an extended round (Known to all because of a Centcomm announcement), I got borged and had the following laws:
1: You may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm.
2: You must obey orders given to you by human beings, except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.
3: You must protect your own existence as long as such does not conflict with the First or Second Law.
4: Catgirls are human and also epic.
5: Len Riker is scary, I'm scared of her.
6: It's Runtime's birthday! You must hold a party in the bar with at least 10 crewmembers (as well as Runtime) to prevent human harm! Dance music and refreshments are encouraged.

Someone kills Runtime and ruins the party, can't prevent human harm because of that. Kind of bummed, but continue to clean up the station as a janiborg. Nabski decides to spawn a "Wizard Salesman" who spams the summon magic event, turning most of the crew into survivors. Chaos naturally ensues, and I continue to clean and repair. Shuttle eventually leaves, and I go to suicide into the SM due to frustration. I check to make sure the SM has ample coolant and won't be damaged by my suicide. I see the pipes are getting coolant directly from atmos, and shard myself with ~45 seconds left in the round.

Why you think you should be unbanned:

So I'll go ahead and admit it was dumb and stupid of me to suicide into the SM, directly breaking law 3. However, I should note that no one was harmed (except myself) because of my actions. The SM stayed at 100% integrity, and I was quick to close the doors behind me so no gas would leak out. But I don't think that's worth a dayban over something that effected zero players.

I'll even go out on a limb here and say that Nabski was metagrudge banning me, going out of his way to ban me on a technicality when no one was affected but me. This is somewhat noteworthy because we don't get along IC or OOC, and from past bwoinks, it felt like he was trying to find a reason to note/ban me for anything he thought he could get away with.


If I can't get this ban appealed, I'd at least like my note to be clarified. It was an announced extended round, my actions hurt no one and did no damage, and ~45 seconds were left in a chaos filled round.



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Nabski
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Re: [Nabski] Hathkar - Cyborg ban for suicide

Unread postby Nabski » Wed Sep 05, 2018 3:53 am #437494

You broke law 3. The ban is for a single day. If you hadn't jumped into the supermatter I would have not noticed. If you don't want to get in trouble for things don't break laws.

I'm not happy about the fact that the wizard spawned events, guns, and magic after saying "yes I understand I'm not an antag I have to stay on the ship and get to trade magic to the crew".
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PostThis post was deleted by Rustledjimm on Wed Sep 05, 2018 11:51 am.
Reason: nice peanut post

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oranges
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Re: [Nabski] Hathkar - Cyborg ban for suicide

Unread postby oranges » Wed Sep 05, 2018 12:00 pm #437569

Peanut Policy since apparently it's not enough to have an opinion but you have to back it up with appropriate rules.

Rule zero:
Enforcement of these rules is at the discretion of admins.
Admins are fully accountable for any consequences should they invoke this rule. Admins are also allowed to intervene in rounds when it is in the best interest of the playerbase.

Consequences of invoking it in this case, none.

Best interests of the player base in allowing random stuff like this:
1) promotes interesting game content
2) allows players to feel like they have creative freedom in the story telling process
3) doesn't require admins to be soulless automatons who enforce the rules without any review of the context or applicability of the ban
4) leads to improved player retention, sense of enjoyment and desire to return.


Disadvantages:
practically none, other than they might see this as an acceptable thing and do it more often.

Solution: if they're doing it a lot and earlier in the round, a quick admin pm to remind them and be on your merry ways, without each person feeling the other is acting out and grudging.


Recommendation: lift ban and note, remind ourselves that we're not here to railroad the players into telling the story we want.
as she says in pain

PostThis post was deleted by PKPenguin321 on Fri Sep 07, 2018 11:00 pm.
Reason: did not actually cite a case where the precedent is obvious - peanut policy

PostThis post was deleted by TehSteveo on Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:57 pm.
Reason: Dumb Peanut Poster

PostThis post was deleted by PKPenguin321 on Fri Sep 07, 2018 11:00 pm.
Reason: Response to delete

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Hathkar
 
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Re: [Nabski] Hathkar - Cyborg ban for suicide

Unread postby Hathkar » Thu Sep 06, 2018 12:16 am #437740

I was already constantly breaking law 1 due to my inability to follow law 6, shutting down was a feasible answer to end the human harm caused by my inability to fulfill law 6. There were ZERO people affected by my actions, and I took precautions to ensure that my death wouldn't cause any harm (Checking the pipes on the engine, making sure there was ample coolant flowing in from the atmos pipes).

If you want to talk about slippery slopes, we can do that as well.
On one hand, cyborgs might kill themselves more often one minute before the round ends when they are unable to fulfill law one during a meme round. This isn't even touching the fact people regularly suicide on the escape shuttle/station before the round ends, from assistants to heads of staff.
On the other hand, admins can start to feel free to ban people for extremely minor technicalities that had zero impact on other players in the round.

Again, I will fully admit that I let my frustration get to me and acted on it shortly before the round ended. A simple warning or a well worded note (not "suicided as a borg fnr because the round was about to end" without any context) would have sufficed instead of a ban.

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Nabski
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Re: [Nabski] Hathkar - Cyborg ban for suicide

Unread postby Nabski » Thu Sep 06, 2018 12:27 am #437745

What do you want the note to say?

Regular people don't have a law that says "Don't Suicide", so that's a lame comparison.
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PostThis post was deleted by PKPenguin321 on Thu Sep 06, 2018 8:52 pm.
Reason: peanut policy

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Hathkar
 
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Re: [Nabski] Hathkar - Cyborg ban for suicide

Unread postby Hathkar » Thu Sep 06, 2018 7:29 pm #437898

So could a headmin weigh in on this? Or maybe a soon-to-be headmin since elections are almost over?

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Owegno
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Re: [Nabski] Hathkar - Cyborg ban for suicide

Unread postby Owegno » Fri Sep 07, 2018 10:37 pm #438160

This ban is one of the worst I've seen in awhile. There was literally zero harm in what Hathkar did nor was there any malicious intent. He doesn't even have any notes for bad silicon play so I don't know why this was even a ban in the first place. I'm going to lift the ban and remove the note.

Like oranges said we're not soulless automatons. Additionally we've had the long running precedent of not banning silicon players that suicide or go braindead when they're done with a round so long as its not near round start, or if it is near roundstart they ahelp first.

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CitrusGender
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Re: [Nabski] Hathkar - Cyborg ban for suicide

Unread postby CitrusGender » Sat Sep 08, 2018 12:48 am #438187

Looks like this is resolved.
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You can't eat the orange, and throw the peel away - a man is not a piece of fruit.


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