[Nabski] Hathkar - Admin Misconduct

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Hathkar
 
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[Nabski] Hathkar - Admin Misconduct

Unread postby Hathkar » Sat Sep 15, 2018 4:10 pm #439754

Byond account and character name: Hathkar - Launch Kusami
Admin: Nabski
Time and Server(Bagil) incident occurred: Multiple - Bagil
ROUND ID HERE:
https://tgstation13.org/parsed-logs/bas ... und-91746/ Handpicked Blood Brothers Round (Notable people include round-start security officer and derelict drone)
https://tgstation13.org/parsed-logs/bas ... /game.html Changing Janice Lean's nickname
viewtopic.php?f=34&t=19450 Cyborg Ban & Round https://tgstation13.org/parsed-logs/bas ... und-93467/
viewtopic.php?f=34&t=18621 Ban for questionable content
viewtopic.php?f=54&t=16275 Questionable Ahelp

Detailed summary:

I'll go ahead and make this clear that I am biased, as Nabski and I did not get along well IC or OOC before or since he became an admin.

As it stands right now, I do not believe Nabski to be a good admin.
Here are the admin rules of conduct I believe he has broken (https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Admin_Conduct / viewtopic.php?f=23&t=3509)
Rules wrote:Don't be a hypocrite. If you're doing something you'd normally ban someone for doing, you're breaking this.


Beesting put this pretty well, so I'll quote him.
BeeSting12 wrote:It's cool how we ban players for blatant antag rolling and then Nabski gets away with it every time he plays- i mean afks at his spawn and admins. It's so obvious he does this, it's a hard tell for even the players that whenever nabski is moving after roundstart and is deadminned, he's an antagonist. It's a funny joke when used on Imsxz, who actually plays the game as a nonantagonist and just happens to get a lot of ghost antags. It's not funny when it's actually something the admin does.


The Rules wrote:Don't spam sounds and events. If you're queuing sounds one after the other, or if you're running an event every day, you're doing it too often.


Frequently runs multiple events per day. As stated by Nabski himself: viewtopic.php?f=37&t=15252#p437499
Said events included hand picking multiple people to become blood-brothers (https://tgstation13.org/parsed-logs/bas ... und-91746/), spawning wizards/mech/ERT in the same round as another admin forced clown ops (viewtopic.php?f=37&t=15252#p411466), and generally pushing the create antag buttons a whole bunch.

The Rules wrote:Do not interfere or try to add your own spice to events run by other admins.


Referring back to viewtopic.php?f=37&t=15252#p411466 , Nabski added onto a clown op round that another admin had forced. Instead of improving the round or salvaging it, Nabski simply spawned more things until the round ended.

The Rules wrote:Maintain professional conduct both in game and outside of the game. It is expected that you take the position seriously. This doesn't mean you can't talk casually to the playerbase, but remain professional on the forums, as well as on other Space Station 13 communities.


viewtopic.php?f=54&t=16275 As referenced in this complaint. Lack of investigation, and brushed the ahelp off because the ahelper was an antagonist and was cloned.

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=19524 Not taking the round's circumstances into consideration for the ban. Stated that the banned person said "wew what a kill", then backtracked and said that he had said that himself. "wew what a kill" does not appear anywhere in the logs for that round.
Additionally, Nabski isn't taking the appeal seriously at all, and his ban directly contradicts the rules.
(https://tgstation13.org/parsed-logs/bas ... /game.html)

The Rules wrote: Don't cheat. Do not use admin powers for your own benefit. Don't use your powers to abuse other players.
Above all, you're here to keep the game fun and fair for the players.


I want to focus on the bolded part here, and also refer back to the BeeSting quote.
So Nabski is pretty well known for antag rolling and going afk when he isn't an antag. As a player before he was an admin, this is what he did pretty often. Now that he is an admin, he can use the excuse of adminning to cover his antag rolling.

In addition, I'll posit that on rounds in which he is not antag, Nabski will spawn antags to entertain himself.

More quotes from Beesting because they're much better t conveying what I want to say.
BeeSting12 wrote:Nabski also doesn't seem to understand the rules are a rough guideline for admins to follow, and that we should be enforcing the spirit over the exact wording. Two of his most recent bans (banning hathkar for SM suicide as a borg in the last minute of the round and banning sharksie for two days over justified borg blowing) are just indiscriminate application of the rules (in the latter case, incorrect) without taking into account the round's circumstances or the player's point of view.

Additionally, Nabski apparently likes to push what he wants the rules to be rather than what the rules actually are. Most recently, the thing about going out of his way to tell people off for usage of the word rape, and the "no nicknames" thing even though it's specifically allowed in naming policy.

If this was a small isolated instance on another admin, I wouldn't complain so much. However, this consistent hamfisted use of admin tools does not benefit the server or players. These things might not be complaint worthy on their own, but when a chain of incidents like these happen with the same admin, it's time for the admin to go. Waiting for a huge incident to get rid of them or demoting them to a trial is a mistake- the former takes forever to happen and it's not very hard to be a good boi for two months as a trial so you get promoted. It's unlikely anything will come of this post, but I sincerely hope Nabski takes this as a wake up alarm to fix his adminning.


As for general adminning, here are several instances in which his administrative duties are of questionable quality.

viewtopic.php?f=34&t=18621 Lack of investigation of context.
https://tgstation13.org/parsed-logs/bas ... /game.html Changing someone's nickname to Gimpy from Foxy, despite nicknames being clearly allowed in the Rules



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Nabski
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Re: [Nabski] Hathkar - Admin Misconduct

Unread postby Nabski » Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:20 pm #439769

Oh boy, I knew this was coming.

Event Type Activities
Hathkar wrote:https://tgstation13.org/parsed-logs/bas ... und-91746/ Handpicked Blood Brothers Round (Notable people include round-start security officer and derelict drone)

The hand picking part of this was mostly trying to have pairs of newer players with more experienced players. There's no way to create blood brothers with just the click of a button. The officer got it because on a previous round where I had made a significant amount of antags it was pointed out that's super shitty to security. The drone got it because it was funny, and I think at that point I was pairing people based on who I saw on the screen at the same time, having gotten all the 500+ and 50- hour players matched up.

Hathkar wrote:Frequently runs multiple events per day. As stated by Nabski himself: viewtopic.php?f=37&t=15252#p437499

Maybe I'm wrong about what I consider an event vs what you consider an event. Giving someone stuck a hand isn't really an event. I believe one or two of the rounds quoted at that time were extended which is why I was more active than normal.

Hathkar wrote:Referring back to viewtopic.php?f=37&t=15252#p411466 , Nabski added onto a clown op round that another admin had forced. Instead of improving the round or salvaging it, Nabski simply spawned more things until the round ended.

This was four months ago, and I took the feedback to heart and have done my best to do a better job at not messing with other admins events/activities unless they say it's OK.

Things that have been previously reviewed
Hathkar wrote:viewtopic.php?f=34&t=18621 Ban for questionable content

I had been working off what I had understood to be server policy based on a note made by a current headmin at the time.
Hathkar wrote:viewtopic.php?f=54&t=16275 Questionable Ahelp

I'm not sure what there is to say about this one.
Hathkar wrote:viewtopic.php?f=7&t=19524 Not taking the round's circumstances into consideration for the ban. Stated that the banned person said "wew what a kill", then backtracked and said that he had said that himself. "wew what a kill" does not appear anywhere in the logs for that round.
Additionally, Nabski isn't taking the appeal seriously at all, and his ban directly contradicts the rules.
(https://tgstation13.org/parsed-logs/bas ... /game.html)

I will admit that I acted unprofessionally at the very end of that appeal. I found it an incredibly frustrating appeal because they were nit picking every sentence and trying to twist it in a way that was positive towards them and I responded in kind. I did not back track on what I said, they simply did not understand what I meant.

Specific use of admin powers to do things
Hathkar wrote:https://tgstation13.org/parsed-logs/bas ... /game.html Changing Janice Lean's nickname

This one was just kinda funny, and I wasn't the only person to have done it to their nickname. I believe at that time they had just gotten out of cloning with clone damage.
Hathkar wrote:In addition, I'll posit that on rounds in which he is not antag, Nabski will spawn antags to entertain himself.

This one, if it was true would be incredibly negative. If I'm playing (90% of the time), then I'm not going to create antags, unless it's something like a wizard trading a spellpoint for the creation of some. There have been times where I did create antags while playing for one reason or another AND got the antag, at the time I prompted offered myself to ghosts so as to not be taking advantage of it.

Doesn't fit well in the other catagories
Since beesting12 made his comment I've been more active about deadmining and getting involved in the round when there are other admins online. The fact that we have more admins now during the hours I tend to play helps with that. I think your claim about me antag rolling is generally baseless however. I do however generally avoid trying to do anything that would end up with an ahelp involving me, and make sure that anything I'm up to can be jumped away from to handle other things. I prefer to be in the round rather than observing because it helps me have an idea of how hectic and chaotic things are, which helps gives context when people ahelp. There's really more conversation that could be had on this topic but I'm not sure where to start and if it's one I consider worth having here in this admin complaint right now.


Thank you for admitting your bias in this.
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Re: [Nabski] Hathkar - Admin Misconduct

Unread postby wesoda25 » Sat Sep 15, 2018 7:50 pm #439782

I made a very nicely written and long post and as it was 9/10 done I accidentally closed out and lost everything. So fuck off this is gonna be simple.

Nabski’s handpicking isn’t biased. From personal experience, when I was a new player and had no fucking clue who Nabski was (and I doubt he knew me) he made me a cool side antag, which improved the round.

Anyways my main issue is his habit of enforcing his own rules, backtracking, and ignoring/laughing off valid criticism. I don’t mean laughing off as in shrugging off, but when things start to stack against him he starts to joke around trying to lighten things up.

As seen in his headmin thread: viewtopic.php?f=38&t=19261, Nabski displayed the first and second at once. He clearly stated, even after headmins had told him not to (Owegno in particular), that he continued to enforce his weird interpretation of rule 8. In this thread Nabski says he was only enforcing former headmin ruling, but the timeline doesn’t match up and this is an example of his back tracking.

Nabski wrote:
wesoda25 wrote:
Nabski wrote:Wesode25: The fact that I was told I was taking the rule too seriously is why I'm putting it down as a rule change. It's honestly not a particularly difficult investigation, I just feel it has no place on our server. It's one of the very few things that would make me cautious to share the game with real life people. I see the absolute irony in this considering the big boi that I've tossed on the station once or twice as an "event" in my signature.


So how harshly are you going to enforce this rule you’re pushing? If you banned me for one month (viewtopic.php?f=34&t=18621&p=425778&hilit=%5BNabski%5D#p425778) for it before it even WAS a rule or anything, are you going to be handing out permas?


Everything is subjective, The next one after you that I handed out was for three days. They were less creepy, but more serious in their actions. They were also more apologetic and willing to admit they made a mistake. This is why every ban requires a large variety of context. Even our most standard ruling of 1 invalid death = 1 day ban is filled with personal modifiers like "you almost hit the guy with your bomb" or "You believed some incorrect statement from blah blah blah".

When he posted this, I understandably got pissed and called him out for his twisted logic and enforcement (I wasn’t apologetic because, AS HEADMINS LATER DEFENDED, I HAD BROKEN NO RULES AND THEREFORE HAD NO NEED TO BE APOLOGETIC. And yet I got slammed with the one month ban.

Nabski then opted to completely ignore me. And later on, when the big 3 of admin, headmin, and maintainer called him out, he tried to descalate by memeing and mentioning funny rule 8 bans.

Finally, we have backtracking. When I appealed his one month ban for quasi erp (viewtopic.php?f=34&t=18621), we got this:
I'm willing to reduce this ban some amount but do not feel it was in error being applied. I'm going to give head-admins and other admins a chance to comment about these kind of situations before I say how much it is reduced.

When people started to call him out, we got this:
Wesoda, I will admit that I did not handle your ahelp with as much attention as I could have given it. That's a significant part of why this was a longer ban, but not a permanent one. I considered doing shorter but was afraid you might just wait it out as I was hoping you would come appeal and we would be able to talk about it here. There was enough active tickets at the time that I had to ping a second administrator to help handle them.

Jesus fuck I thought I was over this but I’m still salty as fuck.

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Re: [Nabski] Hathkar - Admin Misconduct

Unread postby Anuv » Sat Sep 15, 2018 7:55 pm #439783

I didn't care that my nickname was changed. I've been told it's okay by other admins so I sometimes use it and sometimes drop it. If you wanna bring it up whatever but understand I don't care.

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Re: [Nabski] Hathkar - Admin Misconduct

Unread postby somerandomguy » Sat Sep 15, 2018 9:12 pm #439791

nabski wrote:There's no way to create blood brothers with just the click of a button.

Isn't it a game mode?

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Re: [Nabski] Hathkar - Admin Misconduct

Unread postby oranges » Sat Sep 15, 2018 9:31 pm #439794

It's not one click, but you can use players traitor panels to make them into Brother antags
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Re: [Nabski] Hathkar - Admin Misconduct

Unread postby Nabski » Sat Sep 15, 2018 9:43 pm #439797

somerandomguy wrote:
nabski wrote:There's no way to create blood brothers with just the click of a button.

Isn't it a game mode?

I believe it's brothers+traitors. Looking at the logs I set the round to secret extended, complained in Asay that there was no brothers button that automatically creates randomized pairs like you can for most of the default antagonists/response teams. I then got to work assigning brothers. It looks like the previous round had also had brothers in it and crashed. I think I wanted to make it up to the people that lost their rare chance at blood brother the round before.
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Re: [Nabski] Hathkar - Admin Misconduct

Unread postby Dax Dupont » Sat Sep 15, 2018 10:52 pm #439804

oranges wrote:It's not one click, but you can use players traitor panels to make them into Brother antags

That's what he did and that's what hathkar is complaining about, that's the "handpicking" part.

I guess I can post in here because I'm a witness to nabskis actions and I'm involved.

While nabski did play and admin, then got busy admining and giving the idea he's antag rolling he's not.

I've observed him a lot, and have encountered him plenty icly while he's not an antag. While some of his events have been kinda silly it can be said of most admins, I still feel bad for the misguided Cuban Pete disease event myself for instance.
Either way complaints about events should probably be removed from this complaint since it's a violation of the board rules.

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Re: [Nabski] Hathkar - Admin Misconduct

Unread postby wesoda25 » Sat Sep 15, 2018 11:57 pm #439816

Dax Dupont wrote:
oranges wrote:It's not one click, but you can use players traitor panels to make them into Brother antags

That's what he did and that's what hathkar is complaining about, that's the "handpicking" part.

I guess I can post in here because I'm a witness to nabskis actions and I'm involved.

While nabski did play and admin, then got busy admining and giving the idea he's antag rolling he's not.

I've observed him a lot, and have encountered him plenty icly while he's not an antag. While some of his events have been kinda silly it can be said of most admins, I still feel bad for the misguided Cuban Pete disease event myself for instance.
Either way complaints about events should probably be removed from this complaint since it's a violation of the board rules.

Wasn’t that rule put in place because of senseless rage posts about events that made 0 sense? This definitely falls under that category, doesn’t it. It really doesn’t make sense to force them to post multiple complaints in multiple areas, especially considering its a complaint about a chain of events and the admins conduct in them.

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Re: [Nabski] Hathkar - Admin Misconduct

Unread postby Cobby » Sun Sep 16, 2018 1:14 am #439830

It should be fine considering it's provided to support the thread, not the entire topic of the thread.
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Re: [Nabski] Hathkar - Admin Misconduct

Unread postby Arianya » Wed Sep 19, 2018 10:42 pm #440514

There's been some delay in handling this, in part because it popped up on day 1 of the new headminship and in part because it's a pretty multifaceted complaint, covering a huge range of time and involving decisions made by previous headmins.

To give my opening remarks, I don't like the fact that this complaint is grudge motivated. It does you credit that you admit out the gate your dislike for Nabski, but I really don't think we should be encouraging these kind of things, and that goes both ways. That said, there are legitimate points of concern in this complaint, so I'll address them as best I can:

  1. Don't be a hypocrite
    While antag-rolling is something Nabski has been told off about in the past, and is absolutely something that is unreasonable for an administrator, investigation into this suggests that Nabski has reduced this sharply in more recent times, taking on board criticism from other admins and players, including the Beesting12 post you quote. Barring a more recent instance of this, there's nothing to action here.
  2. Multiple events
    I feel Nabski correctly explained why this wasn't problematic in the linked thread. Admins are encouraged to do events during extended/secret extended and most of the events listed in that post are low impact events.
    I'm not willing to consider a complaint about Nabski interfering with another admin's event where it was both back in May and the only complaint about it was secondhand, not from the admin whose event was interfered with. I've also not seen any complaints about this more recently, which would indicate Nabski took the feedback of the time on-board
    "Hand picking blood brothers" has been explained sufficiently for me. Nothing actionable on this one barring new information.
  3. Professional conduct
    Not to sound like a broken record, but at the time when this was dealt with by the previous headmin team, and I've not heard any issues regarding this from others. I don't say this to dismiss it, conduct is important to us, but I'm not comfortable punishing an admin for something that they were criticized for and took that on board. It feels like double jeopardy.
    Re: the borg blowing, this case was heavily debated both in adminbus and out and I'll quote Nerv's closing post here that:
    While it this particular case is being ruled valid because of the circumstances, the headmin team would like to emphasize that killing cyborgs for doing their job is rarely acceptable, and it's only because of the fine details of this case that this instance is being OK'd.

    That said, we do expect proper investigation from our administrators but they are still, only human, and I don't hold this particular incident against Nabski.
  4. Don't cheat
    Neither of the points in this seem backed up by evidence, and I've not found anyone willing to second this view, on spawning antags or that Nabski misuses the "excuse" of handling ahelps. As such I see nothing actionable on this point.
    I think this is one of those cases where you have to separate your view of Nabski as a person from Nabski as an administrator, but I won't harp on about this.

To be clear, though we're not upholding this complaint, that doesn't mean that Nabski is without fault. Before this complaint was raised, as one of the first actions of the term, we specifically made a point to speak to Nabski about his conduct, as the more recent incidents had us concerned. Based off that discussion, we felt confident that Nabski was aware of the issues and had explained his reasoning regarding the more recent instances.

We'll certainly be watching Nabski for any future issues, and I certainly hope we won't be revisiting the topic any time soon. If I could offer advice to Nabski, it would be to rely on the adminbus more. Consensus is our most powerful tool and helps us be the best admins we can be.

As I've noted some of these issues seem to be long settled. In case there's any more recent incidents we've not been made aware of, I'll keep this thread open for the addition of any new information for a couple of days.
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Arianya
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Re: [Nabski] Hathkar - Admin Misconduct

Unread postby Arianya » Sun Sep 23, 2018 11:12 am #441102

In the absence of new information, I'm calling this resolved.
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