General discussion about mode percentages

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General discussion about mode percentages

Unread postby Anuv » Wed Oct 03, 2018 1:06 am #443010

Recent mode additions/adjustments have caused significant changes in server revision game mode percentages. Are people happy with the current amount of traitor rounds? Is there a way to have a vote for a modification of round percentages?

I feel like ops was dialed back too heavily and at 6.4% it feels like extended is happening an awful lot. Clearly traitor is happening a lot. Are there thoughts to further adjustments? I played most of Saturday and I don't think there was a single cult or ops round at all.

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Re: General discussion about mode percentages

Unread postby BeeSting12 » Wed Oct 03, 2018 1:12 am #443012

policy discussion
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Re: General discussion about mode percentages

Unread postby wesoda25 » Wed Oct 03, 2018 2:25 am #443015

I’ve loved the new percentages. Ops being dialed back so much is just blissful. I actually play and enjoy war ops rounds now, even if I don’t have disk memes in mind.

Although there have been a bit too many overthrow rounds as of late, especially considering not many like the game mode. And all the assimilator rounds give the impression of secret extended, the way most overminds play. If anything, replace the percentage of those with announced extended (or hey if we port vampires they can fill the gap too :clean: )
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Re: General discussion about mode percentages

Unread postby Boris » Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:50 am #443019

Reminder that you can use the Show-Servers-Revision verb on any server at any time to see the percentages of all the gamemodes along with some other config stuff,

Anyways the percentages of all the gamemodes right now (at least for sybil and this stuff should be synced between all the servers) is

traitorbro 8.5%
traitorchan 8.5%
traitor 25.5%
nuclear 8.5%
cult 8.5%
extended 2.1%
secret_extended 4.3%
hivemind 4.3%
overthrow 4.3%
revolution 12.8%
wizard 12.8

Keep in mind this isn't accounting for pop which changes the percentages a lot.

anyways hivemind should be higher imo apart from that it's good as-is.

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Re: General discussion about mode percentages

Unread postby Dr_bee » Wed Oct 03, 2018 9:15 am #443035

Hivemind and overthrow really should be test merge only for a bit, they are still REALLY rough.

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Re: General discussion about mode percentages

Unread postby Anuv » Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:12 am #443038

BeeSting12 wrote:policy discussion


Yeah I wasn't sure, can someone move the thread
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Re: General discussion about mode percentages

Unread postby oranges » Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:26 am #443269

done
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Re: General discussion about mode percentages

Unread postby Nilons » Fri Oct 05, 2018 3:40 am #443286

why would nuke be lower than revs and wizard I thought it scored higher than both of those last time gamemodes were polled
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Re: General discussion about mode percentages

Unread postby wesoda25 » Fri Oct 05, 2018 4:05 am #443292

Nilons wrote:why would nuke be lower than revs and wizard I thought it scored higher than both of those last time gamemodes were polled

When was the last poll done? I seriously doubt with today’s playerbase people will rate ops higher than revs. Tbh these three all fall under the category of “pure, unadulterated cancer if gamemode >2 times in a row.”
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Re: General discussion about mode percentages

Unread postby Arianya » Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:25 am #443312

As a reminder, using the percentages is not 100% useful since config wise these are handled as weights, and the specific %s change dependent on server population.

If I remember to I'll update this thread with the current weights later.
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Re: General discussion about mode percentages

Unread postby Tlaltecuhtli » Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:42 am #443315

instead of fixed chances lets add a round end voting if you "liked " or not the mode so it then gets higher chance in the future

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Re: General discussion about mode percentages

Unread postby WarbossLincoln » Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:59 pm #443390

I think it's good that traitor is a high chance, it's really the core game mode. Hopefully having Ops down in weight will help prevent getting 2-3 op rounds in a row which seemed to happen way too often. IMO all the other modes should be breaks from traitor.
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Re: General discussion about mode percentages

Unread postby PKPenguin321 » Mon Oct 08, 2018 12:31 am #443940

Nilons wrote:why would nuke be lower than revs and wizard I thought it scored higher than both of those last time gamemodes were polled

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Re: General discussion about mode percentages

Unread postby Oldman Robustin » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:39 pm #444571

The poll was done in April.

Clockcult was the lowest, followed by extended and Rev.

Extended was also the most polarizing mode, around 18% of our playerbase has extended as their favorite mode - only traitor has more "favorite mode" votes. However, the other 82% of the playerbase hates extended so much that it ended up in 2nd to last place.

Since ClockCult was removed, Extended is currently the least popular mode in rotation (the test modes would probably do worse but those are still being tested). Yet somehow it's been doubled in weight since in the poll.

I'd like to see it reduced on Bagil, the 18% of our playerbase already has Sybil and Terry for a high chance of extended (due to low pop disqualifying most other modes). It's bad policy to subject Bagil to a mode that a large majority of the players dislike.

Currently this is how Bagil breaks down:

1) Traitorish Modes = 48.7%
2) Rev = 12.8%
3) Wizard = 12.8% (honestly 75% of wizards weight should be under traitor because thats what it is when the wizard dies ASAP)
4) Extendedish Modes = 10.7% (sorry Hivemind, you are)
5) Ops = 8.5%
6) Cult = 8.5%

There are arguments for keeping popular modes like Nukeops low, but when you fall under 10% and population requirements disable it at night/morning, you get screenshots like the OP where you get 1 Nuke Round and 1 Cult round per day across all of the servers - which is just too low.

Also keep in mind I added a server config value for reducing the weight of a round that has been in the last 3. However, that weighting reduction is currently on the low side and the splitting of various modes into subtypes further reduces the effectiveness of that code (it doesn't see Extended and Secret Extended as the same mode).
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Re: General discussion about mode percentages

Unread postby PKPenguin321 » Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:11 am #444600

Oldman Robustin wrote:Since ClockCult was removed, Extended is currently the least popular mode in rotation (the test modes would probably do worse but those are still being tested). Yet somehow it's been doubled in weight since in the poll.

i agree that it is odd how much extended is ran but you said yourself that the poll is half a year old already so this may not be accurate

Oldman Robustin wrote:There are arguments for keeping popular modes like Nukeops low, but when you fall under 10% and population requirements disable it at night/morning, you get screenshots like the OP where you get 1 Nuke Round and 1 Cult round per day across all of the servers - which is just too low.

should be noted that ops isnt such a super popular mode anymore, with a big complaint being war ops = half the crew suicides because "oh god not war ops again"
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Re: General discussion about mode percentages

Unread postby Dr_bee » Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:11 pm #444689

PKPenguin321 wrote:
Oldman Robustin wrote:Since ClockCult was removed, Extended is currently the least popular mode in rotation (the test modes would probably do worse but those are still being tested). Yet somehow it's been doubled in weight since in the poll.

i agree that it is odd how much extended is ran but you said yourself that the poll is half a year old already so this may not be accurate

Oldman Robustin wrote:There are arguments for keeping popular modes like Nukeops low, but when you fall under 10% and population requirements disable it at night/morning, you get screenshots like the OP where you get 1 Nuke Round and 1 Cult round per day across all of the servers - which is just too low.

should be noted that ops isnt such a super popular mode anymore, with a big complaint being war ops = half the crew suicides because "oh god not war ops again"


That was primarily because the rate of ops was so high and the downsides of war ops being so low that every operative round was war ops. Fixed duration rounds are shit, you know you cant get anything meaningful done outside of validhunt, and most of the damn game is things besides validhunting.

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Re: General discussion about mode percentages

Unread postby Oldman Robustin » Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:11 pm #444715

I don't credit "stuff I hear in OOC/Discord/etc.", I doubt the overall attitude towards Ops has changed given that we've had Warops for years now.

The issue with repeat rounds is true of course, Warops is especially vulnerable to that complaint because the gameplay for the first 20 minutes in Warops doesn't have much variance. With all-access distribution being normal, the gameplay ends up being homogeneous for Crew Prep.

This would just be another reason to up the repeat-round weighting so that it's less likely - that's why I created it, so we wouldn't have to reduce the weighting on fun modes just because they're taxing to play back-to-back.

I also reject the idea that Warops being "stronger" played a serious role in this. "Declarations" front-load the frustration and annoyance of repeat rounds, and it allows people to suicide out, but I also think its foolish to suggest that after a Warops round its better to bait people to invest 20 minutes in a Normal NukeOp round just so you can go "AHAH! Its Nukeops again!" and think the outcome is somehow better because the player got suckered into getting invested in the round before finding out he was wasting his time on a long-term project when the Ops show up. It all just comes back to the notion that repeat-rounds are a big negative and all it takes is a config change to make it much less likely.
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Re: General discussion about mode percentages

Unread postby wesoda25 » Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:14 pm #444790

Nuke ops is at its perfect percentage right now. Stealth ops will always be better than war, because in war you know that the next 30 minutes is only going to be fun for a select group of people.

In the past year, we repeatedly got back to back nuke op rounds, and now regardless if they’re consecutive everyone is burnt out on the gamemode.

As far as I know you came back to the game in the past two weeks, so naturally you aren’t burnt out on it.

I suicide on basically all nuke op rounds because of how little enjoyment I get from it. I never roll for ghost roles, I’d just rather observe than have to endure the same monotonous bullshit that we get so frequently.

I’d be willing to bet a server poll would lean more my way.
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Re: General discussion about mode percentages

Unread postby Anuv » Sat Oct 13, 2018 2:47 am #445151

Okay for real yet again just check the past few pages and tell me mode percentages are okay. May as well just be extended and traitors

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Re: General discussion about mode percentages

Unread postby Malkraz » Sat Oct 13, 2018 2:49 am #445152

Wizard should be 0%

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Re: General discussion about mode percentages

Unread postby PKPenguin321 » Sat Oct 13, 2018 7:42 am #445214

Malkraz wrote:Wizard should be 0%

you should be 0%
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Re: General discussion about mode percentages

Unread postby RandolfTheMeh » Sat Oct 13, 2018 10:15 am #445231

PKPenguin321 wrote:
Malkraz wrote:Wizard should be 0%

you should be 0%

I'm the 0%
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Re: General discussion about mode percentages

Unread postby Arianya » Sat Oct 13, 2018 2:56 pm #445283

At this time, the headmins don't feel there's any need to change the weights on modes. This may change in the future.
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Re: General discussion about mode percentages

Unread postby PKPenguin321 » Sun Oct 14, 2018 8:07 am #445522

As an aside, I've made a new poll on the servers to see which gamemodes people like the most/least. The last time we had this poll was a bit over half a year ago, and at the time we still had clocks and didn't have overthrow or hivemind, so I figured now would be a good time for a new one.
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