Rule 0/1 & Escalation Discussion

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Rule 0/1 & Escalation Discussion

Unread postby Test13579 » Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:02 am #444238

I wanted to discuss the extent of Rule 0/1 & Escalation policies. As a preface, I play assistant maybe 7 out of 10 rounds. Prior to antag rep being removed it was more like 3/10. Previously my only notes were that I had an antag coin and a warning once for OOC talk in IC (I said "lol" in ling chat).
Recently I've found myself under scrutiny, though not without prompting on my part, and I'd like I guess clarification on where to draw the line. I'll talk about my account of the 3 incidents I was involved in. If you want to skip the majority of this, just go down to the last part for a kinda tl;dr.

The first incident involved myself and a security officer. I was playing greytide and had created a stunprod and decided to hunt down a security officer so I could take their tools and ID. To my surprise, I found one lurking about in maintenance around arrivals. I stunproded them, handcuffed and stripped them down. I then proceeded to buckle them inside the escape shuttle at arrivals and went on my way. I was bwoinked and questioned on the situation.

My normal logic when playing is that I will not kill a player unless a) I am antag or b) I'm provoked into using lethal self-defense and that's if I'm not outrobusted by them(70% of the time I am). I didn't perform the actions out of any ill will towards the player, and merely did it to tide. The reason I left him inside the escape shuttle in his state was so that he could escape and get back into the shift. He would be inhibited for a short time, but have the capability to get back on his feet.

The second incident was a bit of an embarrassment. I was playing a miner and just came back from gathering mats. I found an assistant next to a dead body with miner gear on them. I hadn't realized that the body was a legion body and that the assistant was to be our new mining comrade. Upon initially coming across the situation, I proceeded to use my KFA to take down the assistant. I was bwoinked and the situation discussed. I quickly realized my mistake and offered to clone the assistant, but the admin had already resolved his death.

I believe it was an honest mistake on my part, I was quick to judge the situation and react and after the fact I apologized to the player.

The third incident involved security again. Again, I was tiding. I broke into security and stole a hardsuit and taser. Upon my way out I ran into the Warden. I tried to be quick about my way out, but he pursued. He pulled out his taser, I pulled out mine, but alas I was quicker to the trigger. After I handcuffed him, I stripped him and proceeded to place him into perma. At this point I was bwoinked. It was discussed that I shouldn't be putting him in perma, but instead avoid him. My solution to this was to bolt open the door to the cell he was in and after escaping the bed/cuffs, he could make his way out. I would leave his radio so he could acquire help. At this moment though, someone broke the window that led outside and plasma flowed in. As directed by the admin, it was now my responsibility to get him out of the situation. I led him out of security and it looked like most of the station was getting plasma flooded. I took him to arrivals which looked to be very clear of plasma, placed internals on him so he could survive and buckled him to a chair in arrivals. I let the admin know the situation and it was pointed out that there was still a plasma flood, and that he was still cuffed with his gear stolen. I replied with the fact that I had taken him out of the flood and I also left some of his gear next to him to take back. I was also informed that now was the time to stop tiding because bad shit was going down on the station. Ok, so I uncuffed the person and they ran out the airlock.

I broke rule 1 to an extent and I'm sorry. If that warden ever sees this, I apologize. I understand that placing him in perma was not a sportsman-like decision on my part and I'll refrain from doing the like in the future. As for the rest of the incident is where I become concerned. I was in the wrong initially IC which prompted the warden to pursue me. That's understandable. IC I responded in kind with non-lethal force as well, I outrobusted him. I hope that's understandable. I proceeded to restrain him and was going to permanently put him away. That was a breaking of rule 1 on my part. I tried to undo some of my work and make it so I wasn't completely ruining his round. I agree with the admin that my actions require me to remove him from the situation that I placed him in. I would disagree however that he does not become my responsibility due to external forces creating a dangerous situation. Or that a dangerous situation occurring with the rest of the station requires that I refrain how I perform throughout the round. And while yes I did create an inescapable situation for that player initially due to my ineptness, I strove to undo the mistake and felt like I was supposed to undo all of the actions I had performed instead of just the mistake.

I do apologize if this just seems like a greytider ranting about stuff, and understand if some admins will look down on this. I guess to sum up my post, does escalation or reversal of (I would say minor) rulebreaking require that I care for a player. Or that negative incidents occurring elsewhere on the station require that I halt my tiding/actual job and assist the rest of the station in resolving those incidents.



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Re: Rule 0/1 & Escalation Discussion

Unread postby Test13579 » Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:15 am #444242

As a follow up, I'll probably lower the amount that I play assistant/greytide from now on. I can see that being a suggestion towards me.

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Re: Rule 0/1 & Escalation Discussion

Unread postby subject217 » Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:30 am #444245

have you ever considered a playstyle that doesn't involve taking random people out of the round for long periods of time for having the audacity to pick a job that you don't like

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Re: Rule 0/1 & Escalation Discussion

Unread postby Test13579 » Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:35 am #444247

I agree I do need to change my playstyle and vary my job choice. I am going to do so. I would also hope I haven't and hope to not take anyone out of the round for long periods. With the exception of the instance which almost occurred, I try not to do so. The most I'll keep someone *out* of the round is no more time than they can escape a buckle and a cuff.

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Re: Rule 0/1 & Escalation Discussion

Unread postby Test13579 » Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:40 am #444248

Honestly in hindsight, this is just a stupid post on my part and should probably be locked and deleted. Am idiot greytider and just need to play other jobs.

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Re: Rule 0/1 & Escalation Discussion

Unread postby Anuv » Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:18 am #444270

Honestly there needs to be more bwoinks for shit like the OP does and stealing/handing out AA. Once in a while is fine but the chronic cases make people no longer want to play as sec/heads.

Like sure I've done stuff but it's never a constant thing and I literally never have thought to myself "gee I'll make a stunprod and go strip down a sec officer" like that takes a new level of shitty play
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Re: Rule 0/1 & Escalation Discussion

Unread postby Cobby » Tue Oct 09, 2018 3:46 pm #444314

as long as we're clear chronic is on a per person basis, yes.
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Re: Rule 0/1 & Escalation Discussion

Unread postby WarbossLincoln » Tue Oct 09, 2018 5:55 pm #444345

In incident 1 and 2 all you had to do was not bucklecuff or perma someone, damn. Stun the officer, remove his cuffs and run, tase the warden and jump down a disposal chute...
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Re: Rule 0/1 & Escalation Discussion

Unread postby BeeSting12 » Tue Oct 09, 2018 6:32 pm #444354

Can I get a tldr?
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Re: Rule 0/1 & Escalation Discussion

Unread postby PKPenguin321 » Tue Oct 09, 2018 6:37 pm #444356

BeeSting12 wrote:Can I get a tldr?

tldr OP is way to quick to just murder people, says we should make it ok if he revives them after which is pretty much how it already works and this is all kind of a thinly veiled ban appeal-type thing
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Re: Rule 0/1 & Escalation Discussion

Unread postby WarbossLincoln » Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:16 pm #444359

OP also thinks bucklecuffing a stripped sec officer in an escape pod for the lulz is perfectly ok tiding he can do whenever.
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Re: Rule 0/1 & Escalation Discussion

Unread postby Nilons » Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:48 pm #444362

I dont think you would have gotten in trouble (despite all of this still being incredibly cunty for no reason) if not for it being a trend of behavior and the buckle cuffing, stealing all of someones shit is considerably better than stealing all their shit then making them sit still for 3 minutes before they can start playing again
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Re: Rule 0/1 & Escalation Discussion

Unread postby subject217 » Wed Oct 10, 2018 1:23 am #444403

PKPenguin321 wrote:
BeeSting12 wrote:Can I get a tldr?

tldr OP is way to quick to just murder people, says we should make it ok if he revives them after which is pretty much how it already works and this is all kind of a thinly veiled ban appeal-type thing

he explicitly talks about how he removes people from the round nonviolently instead of murdering them lol, the problem is removing people from a round fnr as a non antag

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Re: Rule 0/1 & Escalation Discussion

Unread postby Cobby » Wed Oct 10, 2018 3:05 am #444433

subject217 wrote:
PKPenguin321 wrote:
BeeSting12 wrote:Can I get a tldr?

tldr OP is way to quick to just murder people, says we should make it ok if he revives them after which is pretty much how it already works and this is all kind of a thinly veiled ban appeal-type thing

he explicitly talks about how he removes people from the round nonviolently instead of murdering them lol, the problem is removing people from a round fnr as a non antag


when he says murder he means murder of the player's enjoyment.
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Re: Rule 0/1 & Escalation Discussion

Unread postby Nervere » Sat Oct 13, 2018 3:30 am #445174

I’m not sure exactly what this thread is meant to accomplish, but it sounds like you keep getting bwoinked for a pattern of poor behavior as an assistant. Honestly, if you think your behavior in-game is acceptable, you need to change your mindset. Griefing/excessively messing with people is still banned behavior under rule 1, you’ll see better results for yourself when you actually contribute to the round instead of greytiding.


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