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Maskoff- Banned For Complaining

Appeals which have been closed.

Moderators: In-Game Admin, In-Game Head Admins, Game Server Operators

maskoff
 
Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2017 11:27 pm
Byond Username: Maskoff

Maskoff- Banned For Complaining

Unread postby maskoff » Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:49 am #444639

Byond account and character name: maskoff, jake northey
Banning admin:ariyana
Ban type (What are you banned from?):server
Ban reason and length: complaining about an admin, 4 days
Time ban was placed (including time zone): IDK
Server you were playing when banned (Sybil or Bagil):n/a
Your side of the story: I attempted to make a complaint on how admins deal with interpreting rules on the server. After receiving mixed signals on what is and is not okay to do as sec, I was banned for following what the first admin said. When complaining about this on the forum, I was server banned. I'm assuming this is just to spite me and prevent me from trying to complain about admins again.
Why you think you should be unbanned: I don't think I should be banned for complaining on a forum, and increasing my ban after the fact retroactively seems like a shitty behavior to do after "looking into it" more. It seems more and more clear to me that the staff on this server have a grudge against me, as I have been rule 0 banned in the past for extended periods of time. Feel free to extend my ban to a perma for making this appeal.



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Kangtut
 
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Re: Maskoff- Banned For Complaining

Unread postby Kangtut » Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:52 am #444640

Since I didn't get a chance to post in my own complaint thread - you weren't banned for complaining. You were banned because after going over the situation that I banned you for the headmin decided that I was not harsh enough in my own ban and added a server ban for your terrible behavior.

maskoff
 
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Re: Maskoff- Banned For Complaining

Unread postby maskoff » Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:55 am #444641

I fail to see why I would be banned for killing a greytider who slipped me and took my gun and baton, as well as had his friend actively breaking into sec to attack me and rescue him. Killing him is not acceptable, whereas the HOS killing me is acceptable for putting a wall up around brig. One action is violent, the other is non violent. Both are very greytide in their behavior. One person gets banned for doing it, and that's me. Also locking the thread so I can't respond to make it seem you won the argument is childish

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oranges
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Re: Maskoff- Banned For Complaining

Unread postby oranges » Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:00 am #444642

this should be lifted, banning people after they complain is 100% shitty and bad.

If you failed to ban someone for their behaviour earlier you shouldn't retroactively do it just because they came to your attention, all you can do is put a warning note on them and wait for the next time they act shit.

Arianya needs to understand how bad this looks and not do this and also apologise for being a cunt.
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Lazengann
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Re: Maskoff- Banned For Complaining

Unread postby Lazengann » Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:07 am #444673

maskoff wrote: whereas the HOS killing me is acceptable for putting a wall up around brig.

You not only threatened their life, you told them to kill you. I assume the greytide you executed did neither of those things.

PostThis post was deleted by Nervere on Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:32 pm.
Reason: no, goof, there's no admin conspiracy and also you're not involved/contributing within FNR rules

PostThis post was deleted by Nervere on Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:33 pm.
Reason: response to deleted

PostThis post was deleted by Nervere on Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:33 pm.
Reason: response to deleted

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Qbmax32
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Re: Maskoff- Banned For Complaining

Unread postby Qbmax32 » Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:20 pm #444690

oranges wrote:this should be lifted, banning people after they complain is 100% shitty and bad.



This.



Shit precedent. Stupid thing to do. It was already handled in game, adding a ban on because they made a complaint is dumb and bad.
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Arianya
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Re: Maskoff- Banned For Complaining

Unread postby Arianya » Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:21 pm #444702

For the record, your ban had nothing to do with your complaint, but was prompted by what I found in reviewing the circumstances as I investigating into the complaint. You've had multiple issues with escalation and security policy, and your conduct in both tickets (the earlier one with elyina and the one with kangtut) reinforced to me that you're not taking the gentle attempts to steer you in stride. A ban was appropriate in this instance to reinforce that you need to correct your behaviour or end up with worse in the future.

That said, I have no particular intent or interest in removing this ban. I'm sure one of the other headmins will post in due time.
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Dax Dupont
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Re: Maskoff- Banned For Complaining

Unread postby Dax Dupont » Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:55 pm #444703

It might be prudent to share his note history because people will instantly understand I'm sure. Any objections to posting them?

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Atlanta-Ned
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Re: Maskoff- Banned For Complaining

Unread postby Atlanta-Ned » Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:13 pm #444704

I'm in agreement with everyone above. Regardless of the circumstances, the optics on this look terrible. I'd rather someone's malfeasance go unpunished than have an abusive admin go unreported out of fear of reprisal.
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Dax Dupont
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Re: Maskoff- Banned For Complaining

Unread postby Dax Dupont » Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:16 pm #444705

I got permission, here we go
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More or less 38 notes including notes for bans in 677 connections which is one note per 17 connections

The less intensive times where you see little notes are times his connection count dropped steeply.

Ergo each time his activity picks up, he instantly starts generating a bunch of notes.
Recent activity is a good indicator.

This does not include note history from his alts which are extensive in their own.

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Dax Dupont
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Re: Maskoff- Banned For Complaining

Unread postby Dax Dupont » Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:19 pm #444706

Atlanta-Ned wrote:I'm in agreement with everyone above. Regardless of the circumstances, the optics on this look terrible. I'd rather someone's malfeasance go unpunished than have an abusive admin go unreported out of fear of reprisal.


It sorta looks bad but honestly the discussion in adminbus prior to this ban was PURELY about his behavior and arguing that we've been too lenient on people like maskoff and others.

I've seen him play so many times and he's griefing almost nonstop I'm honestly surprised nobody has permabanned maskoff yet really.

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Lazengann
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Re: Maskoff- Banned For Complaining

Unread postby Lazengann » Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:21 pm #444707

if you're going to ban someone for being terrible and refusing to adjust then it should've been permanent until appealed. The optics are only bad to people with poor reading skills.

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Dax Dupont
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Re: Maskoff- Banned For Complaining

Unread postby Dax Dupont » Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:22 pm #444708

Lazengann wrote:if you're going to ban someone for being terrible and refusing to adjust then it should've been permanent until appealed. The optics are only bad to people with poor reading skills.

I agree and this is what I suggested in prior to ban discussion but ariyana decided to be lenient incase he would stop and think about his actions for just one moment.

maskoff
 
Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2017 11:27 pm
Byond Username: Maskoff

Re: Maskoff- Banned For Complaining

Unread postby maskoff » Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:45 pm #444710

I would argue I'm only getting banned and notes because people are looking at me under a magnifying lens. Other people do plenty of worse stuff than me and get off. My OOC in IC bans are indefensible and shitty behavior, but honestly I would say a lot of my overescalation bans are from me winning the fight when they would've killed me if I lost. Also, come on, some of those notes are stupid. Accidentaly using round instead of shift, making a joking emote in the permabrig that the other guy 100% knew was a joke. But anyways, I will say that realizing I am coming close to being permabanned I will just stop playing as assistant or command, I tend to get in trouble when playing those roles. I will be a pacifist.


EDIT: Also, looking at my ban makes it seem like I was trying to permabrig the assistant for slipping me and he escaped and slipped and took my gun and baton. That's not what happened, I only wanted him to be permabrigged after he took my gun and baton, not before

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Cobby
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Re: Maskoff- Banned For Complaining

Unread postby Cobby » Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:20 pm #444718

*does nothing* > complaint is created > ban applied
hmmm....


If he's insufferable let him slip up again then nail him rather than retroactively thinking we should bolt down on shitlers, starting with this particular shitler, ONLY after he made a complaint against an admin. Let's stop giving tinfoils like Goof so much ammo to work with.
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CitrusGender
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Re: Maskoff- Banned For Complaining

Unread postby CitrusGender » Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:28 pm #444723

oranges wrote:wait for the next time they act shit.

Cobby wrote:If he's insufferable let him slip up again then nail him rather than retroactively thinking we should bolt down on shitlers



I really don't get this philosophy. If someone is shit, the correct decision is appearantly to 'unban them until they MESS UP ONE LAST TIME.'

Granted, if we're going to ban them for that reason: then we should do exactly just that. We're ignoring the real problem when we come here and say these types of things though.
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Re: Maskoff- Banned For Complaining

Unread postby somerandomguy » Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:35 pm #444724

Dax Dupont wrote:
Atlanta-Ned wrote:I'm in agreement with everyone above. Regardless of the circumstances, the optics on this look terrible. I'd rather someone's malfeasance go unpunished than have an abusive admin go unreported out of fear of reprisal.


It sorta looks bad but honestly the discussion in adminbus prior to this ban was PURELY about his behavior and arguing that we've been too lenient on people like maskoff and others.

I've seen him play so many times and he's griefing almost nonstop I'm honestly surprised nobody has permabanned maskoff yet really.

With his probation-ish (viewtopic.php?f=34&t=11869&p=311804#p311801) and that note history, I'm surprised he didn't get re-perma'd a couple of weeks later

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Nervere
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Re: Maskoff- Banned For Complaining

Unread postby Nervere » Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:07 pm #444747

I'm overruling Arianya's decision, in cooperation with TribeOfBeavers who shares my viewpoint.
I'll start by saying that the ban KangTut applied was probably too light for being such a terrible player with a bad history, but that's not what matters here.
Fact is that you shouldn't ever ban, extend a ban, etc. for someone appealing something or making a complaint on the forums.
It doesn't matter if the person was a piss-poor player and the banning admin really should have made it longer, "looking into something further" in an appeal or complaint is no excuse to modify the ban to make it more harsh.
When an admin makes a ban and an appeal or complaint is put up for it, and it turns out that ban was too lenient/forgiving, it's tough luck for that admin because now it's too late. Make your bans better next time, move on.
I'm not saying that Arianya banned Maskoff for the very act of complaining, but rather that, had he not complained, he would not have received an extension to his ban.

This whole issue is not just a problem of bad optics, because obviously it looks horrible to do, but it's also a problem of conduct and practice.
To put it simply, setting the precedent that bans can be extended for complaints or appeals will make players fear consequences they shouldn't have to face for contesting a bad ban, or to report a bad admin.
It also would allow for admins to protect each other to an unhealthy degree, where someone could effectively be banned for daring to appeal or complain. The precedent is a threat to the integrity of our bans and complaints system, and it won't stand.
This appeal is accepted, and the ban applied by Arianya is lifted. Your complaint, however, is still denied.


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