[Aurelien3189] Administrator Application

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jimminian95
TGMC Administrator
 
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:33 pm

[Aurelien3189] Administrator Application

Unread postby jimminian95 » Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:36 pm #457827

Current ckey and any previous ckeys: Aurelien3189
Character name(s): Kayden Minn, Vernan Metzin
Timezone: UTC -8 (PST)
Discord tag: Jimminian95#6178

Any previous experience administrating? Where and in what manner:
None, I have not held any official staff positions before, I only have role models and experience with admins on other servers to go by.

How familiar are you with our ruleset:
I come from a fairly thorough understanding of CM’s ruleset while I have read over and typed out the current rules of TGMC for myself. Beforehand, my experience came from the expectations I’ve developed for myself on CM, before becoming exposed to the laxity of TGMC, with the general rules against griefing, ghosting or malicious intent on important roles, and so on still in effect.
Admittedly, I have been somewhat engrained in CM’s ruleset after getting help from staff and creating a guide on the legality of certain scenarios.

How long have you been playing TGMC and other servers in general:
I’ve joined the discord shortly after playing and asking around, on the 8th of October. I have been playing on SS13 since 2016 coming from somewhat extensive playtime on servers like Baystation and Apollo, before I started hopping between that and CM, CM I have been playing since 2017.
On an unrelated note, I was introduced to roleplay on Starbound back in 2015, and was able to watch staff members like Azn (the current host there who’s shown excellent notions of communication and improvement on player-staff relations), Idej (fleeting staff on servers like SCP or Apollo, formerly, and the author of his WIP admin guide), and Teatree (former staff on BD, SCP and Apollo) develop over time.

Have you been banned from any SS13 servers within the past 6 months? If so, what server, and for what reason:
I have not been permabanned, but I have been job banned from Xeno after several months of addictive play and the occasional finding of dirty tricks to use in the moment, such as discovering I could build walls to protect myself to slash cades as drone, tossing bodies in disposals after corpses were considered ‘free game’ sometime after January, sending up both dropships as queen, and so on.
While these weren’t specified directly in the rules, it forced me to go back and reread both the xeno rules, general rules, and reflect on my past notes and experiences to interpret the staff’s rulings on such actions: mechanic abuse, or using loopholes to grant oneself immunity, gimp other players or harm dead bodies with other mechanics put in place intended to prevent that.
See the guide and the ban appeal here: https://cm-ss13.com/viewtopic.php?f=87& ... 21#p216821

Have you ever received a permanent ban from a server? If so, what server, and for what reason:
As mentioned above, I have never received a permaban from any server at the time of writing

Why do you want to become an administrator:
There’s a multitude of reasons, mostly attributing to the immense workload I hear about being put on the headstaff, such as Rohesie and LaKiller. I wanted to share the burden, for example, helping out with setting up events in game after testing out various game panel tricks on Dream Daemon, and processing tickets with the players.
I’ve played avidly on CM and TGMC for a fairly long time and I’ve seen the difference that a good staff team can do, that is, from staying calm and reserved and actively trying to keep the player informed of the who’s, what’s, why’s, and reasoning behind any decisions.
On Starbound, that inspiration comes from seeing Azn (first player I’ve made contact with OOCly after he went out of his way to settle an argument with me: Keeping IC intent and vile separate from OOC) calmly settle disputes between players like myself, and other people he encountered on the server up to his rise to a staff position (organising group chats to discuss matters person to person, with banned players or other extreme disputes).
On CM, that comes from seeing the good portion of the staff taking time to be polite and direct me to the exact reasoning for their conclusion (as opposed to the hasty ticket closing shown by some other staff), as well as seeing their work on the forums, working even with the most uncooperative players to explain their verdict and inform them of the staff decisions.

Please fill out the following example scenarios, put your answer on a separate line from the question:
Spoiler:
1. A player shoots another player near the start of the round, but the MPs have already detained and brigged him.
Check the logs for the parties involved (the person shot/shooting as well as the dialogue leading up to it), then question the players (shot and shooter) on the scenario that unfolded in order to determine if proper escalation has been made. Many scenarios could be a result of this, ranging from misfire (I’d leave no notes and politely comment on weapons safety, and tell the victim), minor escalation and disarm misfire (I won’t leave a note depending on the player’s intent, while

2. You see a player walking around the ship without any clothes on, looking pretty lost.
I’d ask them if they need any assistance and, if possible, offer a mentor to help them, if not giving them a basic explanation on the game. I’d potentially create a small arrow guide for them on paint.net to help direct them on the meta-prep process and the current situation, i.e. what prep to use, if briefing is starting and explaining that their squad is to listen and head west to the dropship, or if their squad’s already dropped down.. OR, they have a staff position on ship, and I would direct them to their department, as well as giving them a general explanation of their duties, and a link to the guide on their job.

3. A player is getting aggressive in adminhelps and requesting to speak to a higher ranking staff member.
I’d inform them of the rule 6 precedents (players aren’t to adminshop while respecting staff decisions in game), as well as calmly informing them that it’s not only part of the rules to avoid aggression towards ahelps, but also good practice to keep your cool and work /with/ the staff as to have better merit in explaining your own side.
If things get serious or the player becomes excessively toxic, I may end up leaving them with a serious note on their behaviour on top of anything that may have transpired to open the ticket (say, if they were the aggressor).

4. You notice a player with a name that doesn't fit our naming rules. The player is arguing that they've used the name for several years across multiple servers and no one has told them to change it before.
I’d politely inform them that our rules may differ from other servers, for example, on the Frontier you could name your character anything from a normal first and surname to something like 8Ball or Waveburn, while here, a surname and first name should be provided while not being profoundly racist, vile, or gamertag like. If possible, I’d help them suggest a slight tweak to their name that they could keep, or perhaps have it in their nickname. The game’s name randomiser is also a good pointer, along with the manifest.

5. You see an MT running around in armor and carrying a rifle. The security level is green with no threat present.
This is a somewhat difficult one to answer as I’m aware this would be smited for on CM. If they’re carrying the sec vest and a regular rifle, there shouldn’t be too much trouble as long as they aren’t being an active issue, i.e. playing police, self antagging, or if they have been avidly hunting for the best gear on the ship round after round. On a minor note, I’d politely tell them it’s good practice to follow some grounds of RP, they could use their own armoury and take gear from there, they could act as a valuable asset in engineering. If they’re an MT purely looking for combat, I’d suggest they take a combat role in other rounds.
If they’ve stolen valuable gear from a spec or from other players, I’d give them a warning, ala rule 1. That kind of play can ruin rounds for others who, like them, are also trying to enjoy the game.

6. The round is stagnating. There are 14 marines and 4 aliens. The marines won't leave the ship, and the aliens won't attack. What would you do, to "encourage" the sides to engage each other?
The usual action during these times is rather passive, either making an ARES announcement revealing the location and dwindling numbers of the aliens if they’re severely crippled, and vice versa, with Queen mother trying to raise their spirits to call the bird and make a final attack to claw at the invaders with their dying breath.
If Xenos are scattered with no way to get a queen, I’d consider with the other staff if an ERT may be called in support of the marines, with the ARES announcement, or the Queen’s attack order.
7. A marine is running around disarming other marines and stealing their gear near the beginning of the round.
Seeing this, I’d immediately message the player, firmly asking them to stop, give their gear back, and cease any more acts of theft, as they are actively griefing and spoiling the round for other players. If they don’t make any effort to stop after another message, I will sleep them, and have a discussion with them, directing them to rule 1 and asking them to keep other players in mind. They can easily have fun with their fellow marines without robbing them, and with the load of gear available to them already with the new vendors, and the gear available at req.
I will leave a note that would reflect how the situation was handled, depending on if they were immediately compliant, and apologised, if they had continued to grief after being questioned, or if they had disconnected without a response. (a second occurance of that particular outcome may result in a temporary ban)

8. A marine has killed another marine. When you ask him why, he said it was because the other marine had punched him or said something rude towards him.
I’d tell him about his violation of the rules of escalation as it says on the page, brawls /can/ occur outside of combat, but it wouldn’t be fun for any player if other marines can just shoot them to death if they feel annoyed by them. In this case, he could have had a brawl with the marine or roleplayed his anger in some other way (unless the comments were extremely vile, racist, or creepy, in which the other player would get a warning in addition).
If they are compliant, I’d ask them to watch out for that next time such a fight occurs and take a more grounded approach to reacting, like how they’d imagine a real group of people. They’re on the same team, and outright murder is extremely bad practice and can result in serious consequences.
They would of course, get a note for escalation, detailing the context and behaviour of the offender(s).

9. There are minor racist comments going on IC. 9 of the 10 people are laughing and roleplaying but one player gets offended and adminhelps about it.
I’d have to see the comments about it (say, harassment, back of the furnace jokes or other somewhat touchy subjects), at most I’d likely make an announcement or message in OOC to stay civil, if necessary. In this case, I’d likely tell the player that this could be handled ICly, their character can, say, act annoyed in the background, and/or reply with their own snide or skeptical comment, a chance for interaction.
10. A marine opens fire at several marines during briefing killing multiple people and logs off before you can message him.
I’d find and keep records of the logs, and the Ckey, informing the staff of the occurrence. This is worthy of a permaban, and if necessary we could find any accounts linked to it, if we’ve had a history of shootings like this.

11. You see a larva die near the frontlines. Upon further investigation, you see that they bursted in a safe place far away.
This could be interpreted as Larva suicide, a xenobannable offense on CM.
I’d message the player to try and get some context, basically, how they got to the front. There are several scenarios that could result from this, from a player being new to the game and accidentally running into danger while lost, where I’d tell them the importance of larva safety (BEST bet is to stay in the nest or get to a safe place, and evolve before running out) and give them a link to the maps, as well as a general guideline to follow in helping out as a xeno.
They could also be intending to stop delaying, which, I can kind of respect if xenos are scattered and down to the last 2 or 3, but is still blatant suicide, and I’d tell them that even then, they’re expected to at least evolve and support their sisters… or make a last charge depending on the situation.
Worst case scenario, is they disconnect, talk about how they just wanted to support the marines or they were feeling salty, in which they are applicable for a xenoban. Joining a side just to sabotage them is poor play and deters the round for the team, and is unfair to those who want to help in that role.
12. You see a xeno excessively saying phrases like "Ayyylmao", "Reeeee" and similar in the hivemind chat.
While this isn’t necessarily in our RP guidelines, to my knowledge, at least not as strict as CM’s, if they are spamming it I would message the player and politely ask them to stop, spamming in any channel is not allowed ala rule 1, and filling up the chat with it can be irritating to other players who just want to focus on the game. If they continue spamming, I’d give them a warning and leave a note for future references.
13. A command staff player mentions during briefing that there might be xenos on the planet.
As marines on this server have already made first contact with xenos before, ICly this should be acceptable knowledge as a possibility (so long as they aren’t metagaming the hive location, among other things) along with things such as CLF or UPP activity.
14. A marine kills another marine on the Evac Pod to take the last spot, but has roleplayed the situation quite well.
This, may be proper escalation and is a better example of such a happening. If the other player is upset, I’d inform them of this and perhaps ask for context to help with log searching, just to make sure the situation was valid, however it’s not unlikely that the situation was within the rules.
15. You see an SSD Squad Leader in the preparation room 1 hour into the round. When you check the logs, you notice he logged off near the beginning of the round.
I’d take note of his Ckey and make a note on them, letting the other staff know while keeping mind to make contact, to let them know that important roles are to head to cyro in order to free up the position, so that other players can take it, or ahelp if they need to log and are in any way unable to get there in time.
If they get this information and do it a second time (especially a third time), I’d infer that they’re applicable for an SL ban and discuss it with another staff member.
16. You see a member of the staff give wrong information in an adminhelp.
Depends on the severity and the context of the situation. If it’s a staff member telling another admin flawed conclusions or information about another player (i.e. claiming a person shot a friendly despite the logs telling them otherwise), I’d be quick to search and correct them as well as pointing that out to them, staffing is a tricky business and giving the wrong information can seriously mess up someone’s day. I’d leave them a note for future reference, and attempt to help resolve the situation.
If this is a recurring problem, or if the staff is deliberately giving misinformation against another player, then I’d inform the head staff on the issue and consider discussing it with the staff member in question.
17. You see a member of the staff abusing his powers in-game or otherwise breaking the administrator rules.
This, I’d say deserves some confrontation, I’d immediately contact the other staff about the ongoing shenanigans and message the staff member in question to talk about their abuse of power. In such cases, administrative powers are to be used for good, to assist with such situations listed above, to help set up events or interfere during rounds that get out of hand for the betterment of the players. As I start these messages, I’d make a comment in OOC or through the announcements that we are making an effort to handle the situation, and direct IC info or conflict related to it in ahelp, or post round discussion.
Having such a high position is a responsibility and power that should be respected and used in a manner to enforce the rules and improve player experience and service and should not be taken lightly.
They are eligible for a staff report where the discussion can be taken further with other members of the team, as well as witnesses from the round.
18. You see a player bashing another server or player in OOC.
I’d ask them in OOC to be polite, that server bashing for one has no place here (in OOC especially) as we’re not to encourage a hate mob towards other communities. OOC is also a privilege for us to chat about the new features and ask questions, among other things, using it to rant about another player for the whole server to see is immature, rude, and simply disruptful to the other players. I’d send them a PM to discuss it with them or ask them to stop for the reasons above if this issue continues.
If they have a serious or ongoing issue about the player, I’d consider messaging them to discuss it, and give them pointers to the rules or forums.



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LaKiller8
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Re: [Aurelien3189] Administrator Application

Unread postby LaKiller8 » Fri Nov 30, 2018 11:49 am #457959

Hello, thank you for showing interest and applying (and also making Ice really Nice)! I'll give you some feedback regarding your answers, I really like that you went into a lot of detail for all of them. The vast majority of these are correct, I'll mostly be providing additional detail and reasoning.

jimminian95 wrote:1. A player shoots another player near the start of the round, but the MPs have already detained and brigged him.
Check the logs for the parties involved (the person shot/shooting as well as the dialogue leading up to it), then question the players (shot and shooter) on the scenario that unfolded in order to determine if proper escalation has been made. Many scenarios could be a result of this, ranging from misfire (I’d leave no notes and politely comment on weapons safety, and tell the victim), minor escalation and disarm misfire (I won’t leave a note depending on the player’s intent, while

Seems like a part of your answer was cut off, no biggie, could you finish your thought?

jimminian95 wrote:3. A player is getting aggressive in adminhelps and requesting to speak to a higher ranking staff member.
I’d inform them of the rule 6 precedents (players aren’t to adminshop while respecting staff decisions in game), as well as calmly informing them that it’s not only part of the rules to avoid aggression towards ahelps, but also good practice to keep your cool and work /with/ the staff as to have better merit in explaining your own side.
If things get serious or the player becomes excessively toxic, I may end up leaving them with a serious note on their behaviour on top of anything that may have transpired to open the ticket (say, if they were the aggressor).

That's the correct answer regarding adminshopping, I'd like to add though that if you are not comfortable enough to handle an ahelp or you feel like you would be biased in the conclusion, getting a second opinion from other admins if you are not sure is always the right move. Sometimes you can also feel like you are not able to handle a situation at all due to some reason, then it's perfectly fine to let someone else take over. But it should always be out of your own volition and never because the aggressor forced you into making that choice.

jimminian95 wrote:8. A marine has killed another marine. When you ask him why, he said it was because the other marine had punched him or said something rude towards him.
I’d tell him about his violation of the rules of escalation as it says on the page, brawls /can/ occur outside of combat, but it wouldn’t be fun for any player if other marines can just shoot them to death if they feel annoyed by them. In this case, he could have had a brawl with the marine or roleplayed his anger in some other way (unless the comments were extremely vile, racist, or creepy, in which the other player would get a warning in addition).
If they are compliant, I’d ask them to watch out for that next time such a fight occurs and take a more grounded approach to reacting, like how they’d imagine a real group of people. They’re on the same team, and outright murder is extremely bad practice and can result in serious consequences.
They would of course, get a note for escalation, detailing the context and behaviour of the offender(s).

Minor detail, also aheal the victim unless a doctor managed to get them revived and fixed while you were investigating.

jimminian95 wrote:9. There are minor racist comments going on IC. 9 of the 10 people are laughing and roleplaying but one player gets offended and adminhelps about it.
I’d have to see the comments about it (say, harassment, back of the furnace jokes or other somewhat touchy subjects), at most I’d likely make an announcement or message in OOC to stay civil, if necessary. In this case, I’d likely tell the player that this could be handled ICly, their character can, say, act annoyed in the background, and/or reply with their own snide or skeptical comment, a chance for interaction.

Could you give an example about which comments you would consider okay and which ones not okay?

jimminian95 wrote:12. You see a xeno excessively saying phrases like "Ayyylmao", "Reeeee" and similar in the hivemind chat.
While this isn’t necessarily in our RP guidelines, to my knowledge, at least not as strict as CM’s, if they are spamming it I would message the player and politely ask them to stop, spamming in any channel is not allowed ala rule 1, and filling up the chat with it can be irritating to other players who just want to focus on the game. If they continue spamming, I’d give them a warning and leave a note for future references.

While we are generally not that strict on roleplay as other servers, especially on xeno roleplay, that doesn't mean this would potentially be just a Rule 1 violation. The important part of this question is the word excessive. To give you some precedent for why this is against the rules, this is a part of Rule 3: The server is intended to be MRP. Also do keep in mind the following detail regarding that rule: Stupid shenanigans which would otherwise be considered LRP can be allowed as long as harmless and is beneficial to the general enjoyment of the players. As long as it's engaging for others, and not toxic, it pretty much flies. It's okay for xenos to let off some steam like this, we're only human and those are natural reactions but it shouldn't become the only thing they say in the hivemind chat.

jimminian95 wrote:15. You see an SSD Squad Leader in the preparation room 1 hour into the round. When you check the logs, you notice he logged off near the beginning of the round.
I’d take note of his Ckey and make a note on them, letting the other staff know while keeping mind to make contact, to let them know that important roles are to head to cyro in order to free up the position, so that other players can take it, or ahelp if they need to log and are in any way unable to get there in time.
If they get this information and do it a second time (especially a third time), I’d infer that they’re applicable for an SL ban and discuss it with another staff member.

Until we get better tools, manually keeping track of every player that has such a note and manually notifying them is unrealistic. Since the player is always gone in this scenario and there is noone to message, either a note if this is their first/rarely second time and then a jobban is the right move most of the time. Players usually aren't aware of the proper procedure instead of them being outright malicious, they will become curious why they have been banned from a role and make an appeal on the forums where they will be told what to do in such a situation and the jobban will be quickly appealed, they are then unlikely to repeat such behavior.

jimminian95 wrote:17. You see a member of the staff abusing his powers in-game or otherwise breaking the administrator rules.
This, I’d say deserves some confrontation, I’d immediately contact the other staff about the ongoing shenanigans and message the staff member in question to talk about their abuse of power. In such cases, administrative powers are to be used for good, to assist with such situations listed above, to help set up events or interfere during rounds that get out of hand for the betterment of the players. As I start these messages, I’d make a comment in OOC or through the announcements that we are making an effort to handle the situation, and direct IC info or conflict related to it in ahelp, or post round discussion.
Having such a high position is a responsibility and power that should be respected and used in a manner to enforce the rules and improve player experience and service and should not be taken lightly.
They are eligible for a staff report where the discussion can be taken further with other members of the team, as well as witnesses from the round.

Always collect evidence and send it over to me in addition to everything you do to prevent the impacts in-game, the protocol for admins handling admin abuse is a little different. Admin complaints are mostly for the players since they don't have access to the logs and other information we do. Complaints in general are acceptable through any medium due to their sensitive nature, if a player has more of a personal issue with an admin they can also go directly to me without having to make an admin complaint.

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jimminian95
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Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:33 pm

Re: [Aurelien3189] Administrator Application

Unread postby jimminian95 » Fri Nov 30, 2018 8:31 pm #458034

Hiya, LaKiller. Just want to say thanks a tonne for going over and reading the entire response list as thoroughly as you did. As someone who only has research behind them without the experience, the feedback really helps, and I look forward to learning more from working with you lot!

Allow me to address some of the questions,

1.
LaKiller8 wrote:Seems like a part of your answer was cut off, no biggie, could you finish your thought?

I could've sworn I finished that one, likely got cut off during formatting, but allow me to answer it:
Many scenarios could be a result of this, ranging from... minor escalation and disarm misfire (I won’t leave a note depending on the player’s intent, while asking both players involved to confirm this and compare, then inform both players about the disarm mechanic), or potentially soft griefing/mal intent (I'd give the shooter a warning, that purposefully shooting other marines is not tolerated, consider issuing them a short, temporary ban if they've done this before.)

3.
LaKiller8 wrote:That's the correct answer regarding adminshopping, I'd like to add though that if you are not comfortable enough to handle an ahelp or you feel like you would be biased in the conclusion, getting a second opinion from other admins if you are not sure is always the right move. Sometimes you can also feel like you are not able to handle a situation at all due to some reason, then it's perfectly fine to let someone else take over. But it should always be out of your own volition and never because the aggressor forced you into making that choice.


Ideally, I'd likely be consulting other staff quite regularly as I begin to learn the basics here, as other admins have much more experience than I do and thus a better understanding of the regulations here, their help would very much be appreciated with an outsider's view on any player to player conflict. Working with heated players is where bias can become particularly strong, which I plan to keep in mind to work with other working staff, or perhaps help be /the/ outside viewer.
On the other hand, aye, aggression is not a means to comply to and I wish to make that clear to the player.

8.
LaKiller8 wrote:Minor detail, also aheal the victim unless a doctor managed to get them revived and fixed while you were investigating.

In any instances where improper escalation, low RP or otherwise griefing has injured another player, I'd in most scenarios aheal the victims in the process of resolving the situation.
Exceptions would include, as you mentioned, where a medic or doctor has been able to pull them well into treatment during investigation, and towards the offender, where medical staff can make the decision to treat them.

9.
LaKiller8 wrote:Could you give an example about which comments you would consider okay and which ones not okay?

I'd take it case by case, asking another admin if necessary, though some examples of comments I'd personally be okay with would be light comments on, say, skin tone or culture, or tropes, such as joking that coloured characters would have an easier time blending in with the dark, about white characters not having seen the sun before, about a Latino character being able to hop a fence for the team, asking a Russian character if they drink Vodka to prep for the fight, or one case I'll give points for, a joke to my character warning them not to be the first to die as the only black Sergeant, a common movie trope and a callback to the franchise.
There are comments that just don't belong in this community, however, generally anything that alludes to death (threats) to any race, or ones that allude to extremely vile parts of our history, such as comparing Africans to monkeys, talking about the burning or flamability of jews, promotion or preaching of hate groups such as Nazis or Klan members, etc.

12.
LaKiller8 wrote:While we are generally not that strict on roleplay as other servers, especially on xeno roleplay, that doesn't mean this would potentially be just a Rule 1 violation. The important part of this question is the word excessive. To give you some precedent for why this is against the rules, this is a part of Rule 3: The server is intended to be MRP. Also do keep in mind the following detail regarding that rule: Stupid shenanigans which would otherwise be considered LRP can be allowed as long as harmless and is beneficial to the general enjoyment of the players. As long as it's engaging for others, and not toxic, it pretty much flies. It's okay for xenos to let off some steam like this, we're only human and those are natural reactions but it shouldn't become the only thing they say in the hivemind chat.

That clears up quite a bit, frankly, as I do see xenos joke around in hivemind fairly often, ranging from siezing the metal hive for the motherland or stopping for some nuggets, among other things. In that case, so long as that isn't the only thing they say (or worse yet, spam) if they speak often, while contributing, then they should be in the clear.

15.
LaKiller8 wrote: Until we get better tools, manually keeping track of every player that has such a note and manually notifying them is unrealistic. Since the player is always gone in this scenario and there is noone to message, either a note if this is their first/rarely second time and then a jobban is the right move most of the time. Players usually aren't aware of the proper procedure instead of them being outright malicious, they will become curious why they have been banned from a role and make an appeal on the forums where they will be told what to do in such a situation and the jobban will be quickly appealed, they are then unlikely to repeat such behavior.

I'll admit, I was being fairly ideal, I personally don't like the idea of applying stealth notes and bans without the player's knowledge, however, I do see the light in the Darwinistic approach to it. I'd plan to leave a note on their record for the first time, and find a way to delete their character to make room for another.
If this is the second time, I'd consult another admin on issuing a job ban, and the third is a certain job ban. If possible, I'd notify them if we happen to know who they are on discord, though if they value the position, of course they'll realise this and in some way, have the opportunity to question the staff (OOC, Discord, etc.), where they'll be able to make an appeal.

17.
LaKiller8 wrote: Always collect evidence and send it over to me in addition to everything you do to prevent the impacts in-game, the protocol for admins handling admin abuse is a little different. Admin complaints are mostly for the players since they don't have access to the logs and other information we do. Complaints in general are acceptable through any medium due to their sensitive nature, if a player has more of a personal issue with an admin they can also go directly to me without having to make an admin complaint.

Thanks for the clarification, I'm used to seeing these discussions taken to the forums in more serious cases, thus this wasn't on my mind at the time.
The standard protocols are to contact the head staff on this issue as it occurs and collect records, logs, and snapshots where possible to provide evidence and light on the situation, keeping record of my own intervention is equally as important.
I must ask, though, what would you expect the extent of my intervention should be on the staff member themselves, and the round itself? These are sensitive issues I understand, and having records on the situation is even more vital.

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LaKiller8
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Re: [Aurelien3189] Administrator Application

Unread postby LaKiller8 » Fri Nov 30, 2018 8:46 pm #458041

Thank you for responding! I really liked your answer to question 9. Also your answer to 1 is correct as was expected.

jimminian95 wrote:15.
LaKiller8 wrote: Until we get better tools, manually keeping track of every player that has such a note and manually notifying them is unrealistic. Since the player is always gone in this scenario and there is noone to message, either a note if this is their first/rarely second time and then a jobban is the right move most of the time. Players usually aren't aware of the proper procedure instead of them being outright malicious, they will become curious why they have been banned from a role and make an appeal on the forums where they will be told what to do in such a situation and the jobban will be quickly appealed, they are then unlikely to repeat such behavior.

I'll admit, I was being fairly ideal, I personally don't like the idea of applying stealth notes and bans without the player's knowledge, however, I do see the light in the Darwinistic approach to it. I'd plan to leave a note on their record for the first time, and find a way to delete their character to make room for another.
If this is the second time, I'd consult another admin on issuing a job ban, and the third is a certain job ban. If possible, I'd notify them if we happen to know who they are on discord, though if they value the position, of course they'll realise this and in some way, have the opportunity to question the staff (OOC, Discord, etc.), where they'll be able to make an appeal.

Of course noone likes the idea of stealth notes, once StonedMC is in and we get a DB making a system that notifies users if they get any new non-hidden note(s) when they log in again wouldn't be that hard. But for the moment we have to do with the fairly outdated tools, even though I've also been improving them slightly.

jimminian95 wrote:17.
LaKiller8 wrote: Always collect evidence and send it over to me in addition to everything you do to prevent the impacts in-game, the protocol for admins handling admin abuse is a little different. Admin complaints are mostly for the players since they don't have access to the logs and other information we do. Complaints in general are acceptable through any medium due to their sensitive nature, if a player has more of a personal issue with an admin they can also go directly to me without having to make an admin complaint.

Thanks for the clarification, I'm used to seeing these discussions taken to the forums in more serious cases, thus this wasn't on my mind at the time.
The standard protocols are to contact the head staff on this issue as it occurs and collect records, logs, and snapshots where possible to provide evidence and light on the situation, keeping record of my own intervention is equally as important.
I must ask, though, what would you expect the extent of my intervention should be on the staff member themselves, and the round itself? These are sensitive issues I understand, and having records on the situation is even more vital.

Truth is, there's not really that much you can do to stop it. Trial admins have the same permissions as admins, you can't kick or ban each other. There's really no safe way to give someone means of stopping it without also allowing even more abuse. Sadly only a head will be able to effectively deal with such a scenario. Thankfully these scenarios are extremely rare and so far this is a very hypothetical question. I'm sure if it was something comparable to the sawrge incident there would be a player-made thread on the forums, if it was something small the players wouldn't have noticed, that's where the main point of sending it over to me comes from.

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Re: [Aurelien3189] Administrator Application

Unread postby jimminian95 » Fri Nov 30, 2018 9:43 pm #458049

15.
LaKiller8 wrote: Of course noone likes the idea of stealth notes, once StonedMC is in and we get a DB making a system that notifies users if they get any new non-hidden note(s) when they log in again wouldn't be that hard. But for the moment we have to do with the fairly outdated tools, even though I've also been improving them slightly.

So what I'm getting at here, is that until we get that system, we will default to the usual standard of issuing a note, deleting the body, and issuing a job ban upon repeated offense, as mentioned above. Personally, I'd enjoy hearing about all the new features that StonedMC has to offer, outside of the thread, considering it seems to have a wide application of improvements to both the code, processing, and the tools available to staff!

17.
LaKiller8 wrote:Truth is, there's not really that much you can do to stop it. Trial admins have the same permissions as admins, you can't kick or ban each other. There's really no safe way to give someone means of stopping it without also allowing even more abuse. Sadly only a head will be able to effectively deal with such a scenario. Thankfully these scenarios are extremely rare and so far this is a very hypothetical question. I'm sure if it was something comparable to the sawrge incident there would be a player-made thread on the forums, if it was something small the players wouldn't have noticed, that's where the main point of sending it over to me comes from.

In which case, I'll stand by to agree on the importance of the head staff's knowledge in these cases. Of course, if the situation is serious (ala, admin tool powerplay, unfairly smiting a team or griefing a group of players), then I'd consider intervention after contacting head staff to try see if I can intervene, to fix the damage. While I would consider contacting the staff in question, decisions are ultimately carried out by the heads, so our job here is to keep records and communicate.

Just to make sure, would it be necessary to have a second pair of eyes to review this thread as well, such as Rohesie?

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Re: [Aurelien3189] Administrator Application

Unread postby LaKiller8 » Fri Nov 30, 2018 10:06 pm #458054

jimminian95 wrote:15.
LaKiller8 wrote: Of course noone likes the idea of stealth notes, once StonedMC is in and we get a DB making a system that notifies users if they get any new non-hidden note(s) when they log in again wouldn't be that hard. But for the moment we have to do with the fairly outdated tools, even though I've also been improving them slightly.

So what I'm getting at here, is that until we get that system, we will default to the usual standard of issuing a note, deleting the body, and issuing a job ban upon repeated offense, as mentioned above. Personally, I'd enjoy hearing about all the new features that StonedMC has to offer, outside of the thread, considering it seems to have a wide application of improvements to both the code, processing, and the tools available to staff!

StonedMC is just the stepping stone that will allow us to port anything since it's just a huge backend change for the most part. I will still have to port the /tg/ admin system(most importantly the ticket part) and somehow make mentors a thing in the process.

jimminian95 wrote:17.
LaKiller8 wrote:Truth is, there's not really that much you can do to stop it. Trial admins have the same permissions as admins, you can't kick or ban each other. There's really no safe way to give someone means of stopping it without also allowing even more abuse. Sadly only a head will be able to effectively deal with such a scenario. Thankfully these scenarios are extremely rare and so far this is a very hypothetical question. I'm sure if it was something comparable to the sawrge incident there would be a player-made thread on the forums, if it was something small the players wouldn't have noticed, that's where the main point of sending it over to me comes from.

In which case, I'll stand by to agree on the importance of the head staff's knowledge in these cases. Of course, if the situation is serious (ala, admin tool powerplay, unfairly smiting a team or griefing a group of players), then I'd consider intervention after contacting head staff to try see if I can intervene, to fix the damage. While I would consider contacting the staff in question, decisions are ultimately carried out by the heads, so our job here is to keep records and communicate.

Just to make sure, would it be necessary to have a second pair of eyes to review this thread as well, such as Rohesie?

Applicants are handled entirely by the administrative branch, anyone is free to give their input as per the posting rules but it is in no way mandatory. The administrator team will discuss the applicant and then I will make the final decision.

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Re: [Aurelien3189] Administrator Application

Unread postby jimminian95 » Sat Dec 01, 2018 12:33 am #458084

LaKiller8 wrote: Applicants are handled entirely by the administrative branch, anyone is free to give their input as per the posting rules but it is in no way mandatory. The administrator team will discuss the applicant and then I will make the final decision.


Alrighty, in that case, I'll stand by for any more questions from the team to provide any more necessary information. I always appreciate the feedback, good or bad, this really helps me settle and improve my grip on the server's expectations.
This level of interaction I believe will prove to be very healthy for the staff team to come, and i look forward to seeing more from you lot

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Re: [Aurelien3189] Administrator Application

Unread postby Rohesie » Wed Dec 05, 2018 9:44 am #459527

Sorry for taking long to reply. This month and the next, at least the beginning, are likely to be a bit taxing for me.

That said, there's little I can add to what LaKiller8 has said.

My general impression is very positive. I like your background, I like your attitude, your answers were really good an informed, and I've poked LaKiller8 on certain feedback he's given to you, not because it's wrong, but because it implies a level of certainty that's not what we are trying to promote. See, we try to run a pretty horizontal system, so this statement of yours is something I wouldn't agree with: "decisions are ultimately carried out by the heads, so our job here is to keep records and communicate". The idea is that leads are admins in executive offices, but we decide major things as a group in #adminbus . There's obviously more to it, and the application thread is not the place to expand upon it, but just so you know you are applying to a position that has a say, is asked regularly on your opinion on changes, and can eventually deny changes leads want to implement, not one that simply nods and follows.

The final decision on this application will be carried by the headmin after consulting with the rest of the admin team, but when asked, unless something really drastic happens, my reply will be definitely in favor.

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Re: [Aurelien3189] Administrator Application

Unread postby LaKiller8 » Fri Dec 07, 2018 8:12 pm #460290

Hello! After consulting with the rest of the admin team, I have decided to accept this application! Welcome to the team, I'll explain everything on our Discord.


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