Arnold pizza and silicon law 1.

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Nalzul
 
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Arnold pizza and silicon law 1.

Unread postby Nalzul » Sat Dec 01, 2018 12:39 pm #458291

I've been rolling chef a lot lately and my big gimmick has been making Arnold pizza and keeping an arm count for the hilarity. Usually, I'll pop 2-3 pizzas on my tables and let people go for it themselves. However, there's always somebody who gets overly mad about it and starts to complain to the AI about it being 'harm', and a borg is dispatched as quickly. I always tell the borg that it's self-harm [it only removes your arm if you eat it yourself, if you have it force fed it does nothing], and then tell them to go away as a law 2 command. All borgs, to date, then promptly module to janiborg and trashbag my pizza and disposal it, all under law 1. Is Arnold pizza really a law 1 violation?



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Anonmare
 
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Re: Arnold pizza and silicon law 1.

Unread postby Anonmare » Sat Dec 01, 2018 7:51 pm #458350

It's not a Law 1 violation.

It would only be a violation if it was, in some way, disguised or forcefed to someone who ate it without knowing the risks or consenting to it. If the silicons don't listen, ahelp them.
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subject217
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Re: Arnold pizza and silicon law 1.

Unread postby subject217 » Sat Dec 01, 2018 8:58 pm #458363

i cannot believe this is a real policy thread thank you basilman

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zxaber
 
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Re: Arnold pizza and silicon law 1.

Unread postby zxaber » Sat Dec 01, 2018 9:13 pm #458370

This is quite clearly self harm, in the same way a rage cage is self harm. But then, I've seen AIs get in a fit over rage cages too.
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Farquaar
 
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Re: Arnold pizza and silicon law 1.

Unread postby Farquaar » Sat Dec 01, 2018 11:04 pm #458407

Doesn't it count as poisoning someone unless you tell everybody who comes by that eating it will cost them an arm?

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Re: Arnold pizza and silicon law 1.

Unread postby RandolfTheMeh » Sat Dec 01, 2018 11:08 pm #458409

Farquaar wrote:Doesn't it count as poisoning someone unless you tell everybody who comes by that eating it will cost them an arm?


Better than hot chocolate costing them an arm and a leg amirite
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Anonmare
 
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Re: Arnold pizza and silicon law 1.

Unread postby Anonmare » Sat Dec 01, 2018 11:13 pm #458413

Farquaar wrote:Doesn't it count as poisoning someone unless you tell everybody who comes by that eating it will cost them an arm?

It's obviously dangerous and silicon policy has a built-in exception that harm is not harm if it's consented to. Willingly eat it would imply consent.
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Farquaar
 
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Re: Arnold pizza and silicon law 1.

Unread postby Farquaar » Sat Dec 01, 2018 11:25 pm #458416

Anonmare wrote:
Farquaar wrote:Doesn't it count as poisoning someone unless you tell everybody who comes by that eating it will cost them an arm?

It's obviously dangerous and silicon policy has a built-in exception that harm is not harm if it's consented to. Willingly eat it would imply consent.

How is it obviously dangerous? It's description doesn't say anything about bodily harm coming to the consumer, and it looks like a normal pizza.
ArnoldPizza.png
ArnoldPizza.png (930 Bytes) Viewed 689 times
"Hello, you've reached Arnold's pizza shop. I'm not here now, I'm out killing pepperoni."
"I come over, maybe I give you a pizza, maybe I break off your arm."

OOC, it is certain that there will be players, new or otherwise, that haven't seen anyone eat this pizza before, and won't know that it's poison. IC, why would anybody know that eating a pizza will blow your arm off?

The pizza is a hazard that any reasonable silicon would take off the front table if there was no clear warning to potential diners.

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Anonmare
 
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Re: Arnold pizza and silicon law 1.

Unread postby Anonmare » Sat Dec 01, 2018 11:38 pm #458422

Fine, I'll add a very obvious and clear warning to the description. It's not supposed to be the silicon's job to fun police, that's security's.
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Anonmare
 
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Re: Arnold pizza and silicon law 1.

Unread postby Anonmare » Sat Dec 01, 2018 11:44 pm #458425

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Re: Arnold pizza and silicon law 1.

Unread postby confused rock » Sat Dec 01, 2018 11:45 pm #458426

hhnngh you're gonna make me say it anonmare
I'm gonna say it
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H U G B O X

Actually, it IS silicon's job to ruin fun.
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Nalzul
 
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Re: Arnold pizza and silicon law 1.

Unread postby Nalzul » Sun Dec 02, 2018 12:08 am #458434

Hugbox PR but if it'll stop shitter silicons I'm for it. Some old players ate it anyway for the meme [and one round medical actually had a limb regrower economy going on], but if you were new enough to be fooled by arnold pizza you'd probably not call for the AI.

edit: wtf I thought I submitted this

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Re: Arnold pizza and silicon law 1.

Unread postby Farquaar » Sun Dec 02, 2018 12:30 am #458441

I personally don't care whether there's a warning or not, since I think actively deceiving people into losing their arms is pretty funny. Silicons should still be able to throw out poisonous food if there's no warning however, as it's their job to prevent traitors from crippling their targets harmful pranks

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confused rock
 
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Re: Arnold pizza and silicon law 1.

Unread postby confused rock » Sun Dec 02, 2018 1:13 am #458447

A description warning still wont' stop silicons anyways, since plenty of people will just walk up to the chef table, look at the pizza and eat it, no examining, just wants food. because 99% of the time the food is safe, that usually works for them.
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Re: Arnold pizza and silicon law 1.

Unread postby Cik » Sun Dec 02, 2018 1:17 am #458451

zxaber wrote:This is quite clearly self harm, in the same way a rage cage is self harm. But then, I've seen AIs get in a fit over rage cages too.


it's only self harm if you are punching yourself

note: it's fine if it's a slave-lizard gladiator pit or something

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Atlanta-Ned
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Re: Arnold pizza and silicon law 1.

Unread postby Atlanta-Ned » Sun Dec 02, 2018 1:46 am #458457

What is Arnold pizza referencing anyway?
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Re: Arnold pizza and silicon law 1.

Unread postby Boris » Sun Dec 02, 2018 1:57 am #458458

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKV74qkokmk

Ned the fact that you've never watched this is painful to me.

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Atlanta-Ned
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Re: Arnold pizza and silicon law 1.

Unread postby Atlanta-Ned » Sun Dec 02, 2018 3:28 am #458472

Not knowing what a forced meme is is a good thing imo.

Also this sounds like it falls under self-harm
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Re: Arnold pizza and silicon law 1.

Unread postby oranges » Sun Dec 02, 2018 7:04 am #458508

Frankly this entire thing sounds like an IC conflict and therefore absolutely nothing, including code changes, needs to be done
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Re: Arnold pizza and silicon law 1.

Unread postby imsxz » Sun Dec 02, 2018 9:31 am #458514

solution is to remove inaction clause

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CosmicScientist
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Re: Arnold pizza and silicon law 1.

Unread postby CosmicScientist » Sun Dec 02, 2018 9:40 am #458515

Are AIs supposed to use the same interpretation of their laws as everyone else when it comes to pizzas that cut arms off for trying to eat them?

Isn't that really context heavy?
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Re: Arnold pizza and silicon law 1.

Unread postby bman » Sun Dec 02, 2018 10:54 am #458524

ladies and gentlemen.... we got em....
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confused rock
 
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Re: Arnold pizza and silicon law 1.

Unread postby confused rock » Sun Dec 02, 2018 2:45 pm #458582

In general, I'd say the "self harm aint actual harm" is too vague regardless. There will always be borgs stopping stuff like borgings, but I have seen AIs go as far as to refuse to help people when a threat to the station like xenos/megafauna/murderboners etc was running around the station, because their philosophy was that anyone who got close to the thing was getting themselves killed. At the same time, the more we restrict people, the less varied the rounds can get.
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Cobby
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Re: Arnold pizza and silicon law 1.

Unread postby Cobby » Sun Dec 02, 2018 4:43 pm #458602

Anything that you participate in knowing it will hurt you is self harm. It’s vague to cover a lot of examples.

If you wanted variability idk why you’d go on the role that by default has to answer certain problems the same way constantly
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Re: Arnold pizza and silicon law 1.

Unread postby Screemonster » Sun Dec 02, 2018 5:50 pm #458615

if a chemist left a bunch of pills on the counter labelled THESE PILLS WILL KILL YOU and containing a chemical mix that will indeed kill you, would silicons be obliged to throw them away after being ordered by the chemist not to?

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Anonmare
 
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Re: Arnold pizza and silicon law 1.

Unread postby Anonmare » Sun Dec 02, 2018 7:26 pm #458639

If they're properly labelled and you were ordered explicitly not to destroy them - you have no grounds to defy that order as established in silicon policy.

If it was mislabelled as medication, then you'd have room for debate.
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Re: Arnold pizza and silicon law 1.

Unread postby WarbossLincoln » Mon Dec 03, 2018 2:33 am #458848

this is different than clearly labeled death pills. Arnold Pizza is only harmful if you willingly eat it yourself. You can't be force fed it, you can't grind it up and inject it into regular food like floor pills.
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Cobby
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Re: Arnold pizza and silicon law 1.

Unread postby Cobby » Tue Dec 04, 2018 10:49 pm #459362

Unpopular opinion: Arnold pizza is a stupid item and it's functionality should be changed to not cause human harm by eating it.
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Re: Arnold pizza and silicon law 1.

Unread postby Actionb » Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:39 am #459543

Unpopular opinion: dont blame the silicons for trying to stop even the dumbest shit that can cause harm.
Even more unpopular opinion: also dont blame the silicons for not trying to stop even the dumbest shit that can cause harm.
They're human players after all. Stop trying to pretend they're omniscient and thus make the perfect scapegoat if shit doesn't go your way.
If a borg is being shit, suck it up and deal with it. That player probably would have been just as shit as an assistant.

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Re: Arnold pizza and silicon law 1.

Unread postby bman » Fri Dec 07, 2018 11:27 pm #460345

Cobby wrote:Unpopular opinion: Arnold pizza is a stupid item and it's functionality should be changed to not cause human harm by eating it.

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