[Stickymayhem] bans player after he spawns a singu for them

[Intigracy]

https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2072

Since my post was removed in the thread (eat shit peoplearestrange), I'll just make an admin complaint about it.

Stickymayhem spawned a singularity in the middle of escape after someone prayed for one. When Sticky spawned his singularity at least one person (the captain) was gibbed immediately, though the banned person says it was more.

"it killed about 3 people including the captain instantly"

The guy who prayed to have it spawned then stunned two more people and threw them into it, so it would grow. He was banned for doing this.

References:

Spoiler:

According to https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=1840 shit like this was supposed to stop.

I have no idea what Stickymayhem expected to happen when he willingly spawned a singularity in escape, but banning people because you fucked up an event is shitty adminning.

This is on par with giving someone the cuban pete virus (the one that gibs you) when they pray for it, and then banning them if they spread it, while never telling them not to spread it.

[Stickymayhem]

If someone accidentally put two bags of holding together without knowing what happened they wouldn't get banned.

If they then began throwing people into the resulting singularity they would.

It was an event that took up the round. The spellbook was a trigger for a singularity that was destined to bring the round to an end. I expected to kill some people, I did not expect people to be throwing their fellow officers into it's maw to feed it enough to ravage the station.

The event was fun for as many people as possible and that's what matters. All kinds of crazy shit got traded out that round and the only complaints came from one non-antag deliberately killing people for lols.

[Intigracy]

The difference is that two bags of holding going together is done by one person, possibly on accident. One person who possibly doesn't know better and is instantly killed by doing it.

What you did is purposefully spawn a singularity in escape and then ban someone for assuming he was allowed to feed it, after you spawned it right on the captain.

You're an admin and expected to know better, and to not ban people because you fucked up and spawned the single deadliest thing on the station in the middle of the escape shuttle hallway.


Though I forgot that "they didn't go along with the event exactly as I had planned it in my head, time to ban them" is the new way of handling administrating.

[Saegrimr]

The difference is that two bags of holding going together is done by one person, possibly on accident. One person who possibly doesn't know better and is instantly killed by doing it.

Thats a bit into OOC assumptions there.
Looking over this it seems more like "Whats the difference between putting two bags of holding together unknowingly, and reading a magic book on how to spawn a singularity?"

The difference there being next to none.

[Intigracy]

The singularity was not automatically spawned by the book.

He threw it and then prayed to Sticky to spawn a singulo on top of it, which Sticky did, knowing full well where he was spawning it. Which gibbed the captain immediately.

This is on par with giving someone the cuban pete virus (the one that gibs you) when they pray for it, and then banning them if they spread it, while never telling them not to spread it.

[Stickymayhem]

Except that he was not even slightly punished for the singularity. He was punished for deliberately throwing people into it.

He acted antagonistically and deliberately threw people into the singularity as an officer. This isn't banbaiting. It's clear what he did was stupid.

[Intigracy]

And it wouldn't have happened if you hadn't spawned him a singularity in the middle of the hallway, gibbing the captain in the process.

This is banbaiting. It's clear what you did was stupid. You didn't tell him what he was and wasn't allowed to do with the singularity, or you wouldn't have even spawned it right next to someone when he wasn't an antag to begin with.

Here's a singularity, but I'm not saying anything besides just spawning it.

OH YOU DID SOMETHING I DIDN'T WANT YOU TO DO WITH IT, HERE'S A BAN.

Honestly, what did you actually think was going to happen when you spawned a singularity for someone? Answer me this.

[Saegrimr]

Here's a singularity, but I'm not saying anything besides just spawning it.

Probably because the status quo hasn't changed? Theres a reason people get survivor objectives during summon guns/magic.

[Intigracy]

What the fuck does summon guns / magic have to do with spawning a fucking singularity in the middle of the hallway for a player?

Admin events have always been something that, unless it's a gross abuse of something such as bombing the entire station, anything that results from what the admin spawns is expected to be on the admin and not the players who use the items given to them.

Like fucking pulse rifles when HBL would spawn them every other round and every wall on the station would be destroyed.

What did you expect to happen from spawning a singularity in the middle of the escape hallway, if not that the person who spawned it would want to grow it so it actually matters?

[Saegrimr]

What the fuck does summon guns / magic have to do with spawning a fucking singularity in the middle of the hallway for a player?

Because a dude who gets a pulse rifle spawned on him without the survivor objective still can't go around blasting everybody with it. That's just how it is.
Why would this be any different?

[Intigracy]

Because it's an admin event outside of the expected rules of a wizard round.

Like fucking pulse rifles when HBL would spawn them every other round and every wall on the station would be destroyed.

What did you expect to happen from spawning a singularity in the middle of the escape hallway, if not that the person who spawned it would want to grow it so it actually matters?

[Saegrimr]

Because it's an admin event outside of the expected rules of a wizard event.

So just because an admin did something, all rules are null and void?

[Intigracy]

I'm not going to keep arguing the same points with you.

Since Stickymayhem has completely ignored my points, I want a headmin or scaredy to weigh in on the acceptableness of banning people for using equipment you (admins) spawn for them.
Especially considering that when it spawned it gibbed an unrelated player.

What did you expect to happen from spawning a singularity in the middle of the escape hallway, if not that the person who spawned it would want to grow it so it actually matters?

This is immediately comparable to HBL when he always spawned pulse rifles every other round and people used them to wreck havoc. They weren't banned for using them, even though they weren't antags.

[Saegrimr]

I'm not going to keep arguing the same points with you.

That's fine, because that's all I wanted to hear anyway is that you think the normal rules don't apply anymore.

[Stickymayhem]

And it wouldn't have happened if you hadn't spawned him a singularity in the middle of the hallway, gibbing the captain in the process.

This is banbaiting. It's clear what you did was stupid. You didn't tell him what he was and wasn't allowed to do with the singularity, or you wouldn't have even spawned it right next to someone when he wasn't an antag to begin with.

Here's a singularity, but I'm not saying anything besides just spawning it.

OH YOU DID SOMETHING I DIDN'T WANT YOU TO DO WITH IT, HERE'S A BAN.

Honestly, what did you actually think was going to happen when you spawned a singularity for someone? Answer me this.

Ok here's the handy guide:

Don't deliberately kill people as non-antag
You can deliberately kill people as antag

I thought some people would die and the round would come to an end. It was a hectic round with a lot of crazy traded shit. I figured someone would accidentally activate it or an antag would buy it from the trader. I didn't think someone would start deliberately throwing their own fellow officers into the singularity to feed it for maximum kills themselves. OH SHIT RUN would have been the appropriate response. This complaint is groundless.

[Intigracy]

You're not a headmin or scaredy.
Thank god for that.

I'm not going to keep arguing the same points with you.

That's fine, because that's all I wanted to hear anyway is that you think the normal rules don't apply anymore.

When wizards summon guns and summon spells, everyone is fully aware that they aren't allowed to use them except in self defense or if they're given antag.

When admins begin giving people dangerous items willynilly, whether it be HBL and his pulse rifle fetish, or you with spawning singularities on people for nonantags, the rules become muddied as fuck and you're expected to explain to people what you're expecting of them with the items you give them.

Banning someone because you didn't think they'd actually use the singularity for the intended purpose of a free singularity is shitty administration, and you need to be able to accept that you're at fault for the singularity having killed people because you're the one who willfully spawned it for them in the middle of a crowded hallway that everyone would end up in.

[Stickymayhem]

It just looks like you are leaping on an opportunity to be angry and deliberately choosing to be ignorant of the actual situation and result of it.

[Intigracy]

Nope.

Just as I ignored that HBL old forum rule that he and elyina came up with about locking appeals made before 24h had passed, I'll ignore the rule that was created so that admins can ignore dissenting opinions on their behavior as being "peanut gallery", regardless of how well worded an argument it is. You can feel free to wedge that stick farther up your ass about the rules though.




I'm not choosing to be ignorant of anything.



You spawned a singularity on the captain for a player after they prayed for it, instantly killing and gibbing the captain.
The player took the fact that you spawned it in escape for them as a sign they were allowed to feed the singularity, as you never said anything to the contrary.
You banned the player for feeding the singularity.

This thread is just going to be me repeatedly quoting myself until a head chips in.

When admins begin giving people dangerous items willynilly, whether it be HBL and his pulse rifle fetish, or you with spawning singularities on people for nonantags, the rules become muddied as fuck and you're expected to explain to people what you're expecting of them with the items you give them.

Banning someone because you didn't think they'd actually use the singularity for the intended purpose of a free singularity is shitty administration, and you need to be able to accept that you're at fault for the singularity having killed people because you're the one who willfully spawned it for them in the middle of a crowded hallway that everyone would end up in.

You attempting to disregard my arguments against you banning people because your events didn't go exactly as you had planned, hell if you had put any thought into planning it at all, as just me trying to be angry is amusing, though.

[Saegrimr]

Are you seriously going back and editing your old posts with new info and quoting screencaps of yourlogicalfallacyis.com?

[Intigracy]

I'm just putting the logical fallacies in them, because there's amusingly a lot present in this thread.

[Saegrimr]

I'm just putting the logical fallacies in them, because there's amusingly a lot present in this thread.

Then you should be painfully aware of this.
{image was here}

If you have a point to continue making, make the point, without needing a website generator to nitpick at questions directed at you.

[Intigracy]

I'm waiting on a headmin or scaredy to post in this thread and give their decision.

I'll just stop posting since this keeps going in circles now.

I want a headmin or scaredy to weigh in on the acceptableness of banning people for using equipment you (admins) spawn for them.
Especially considering that when it spawned it gibbed an unrelated player.

This is immediately comparable to HBL when he always spawned pulse rifles every other round and people used them to wreck havoc. They weren't banned for using them, even though they weren't antags.

[Stickymayhem]

I'm not going to keep arguing the same points with you.

Since Stickymayhem has completely ignored my points, I want a headmin or scaredy to weigh in on the acceptableness of banning people for using equipment you (admins) spawn for them.
Especially considering that when it spawned it gibbed an unrelated player.

What did you expect to happen from spawning a singularity in the middle of the escape hallway, if not that the person who spawned it would want to grow it so it actually matters?

This is immediately comparable to HBL when he always spawned pulse rifles every other round and people used them to wreck havoc. They weren't banned for using them, even though they weren't antags.

What did I ignore I answered your questions.

[Intigracy]

You don't get the final say in your own admin complaint, and this is something that needs to be addressed so people know what to expect when admins continue handing out dangerous shit like candy.

[peoplearestrange]

Moderators note:

FNR Rules still apply to Admin complaints, this is not a place for Steno.

2. If you are not an admin or directly involved with the complaint (You are the guy who was banned, you saw what happened, you were his victim, etc.) then do not post in the complaint.

(Deleting steno is boring already...)
Thank you.

[Stickymayhem]

You don't get the final say in your own admin complaint, and this is something that needs to be addressed so people know what to expect when admins continue handing out dangerous shit like candy.

I swear you must be talking to someone else because I'm not sure I'm saying any of the things you imply I am. I ask again, What questions am I ignoring? Also how am I trying to get the final say in my admin complaint? Did I show any indication of that? I'm finding it hard to follow you when you don't actually respond to anything.

I'm still not exactly sure what your issue is.

Are you upset because the event was a terrible event? That doesn't matter. Everyone enjoyed themselves except the person deliberately seeking to ruin other's fun, which is the point of an event in the first place.

Are you upset someone got banned for abusing an admin given item to kill people? Setting a precedent like this is moronic and would result in de facto antag status being given to anyone with a pulse rifle. The player had no reason or right to deliberately kill people by throwing them in.

Are you upset because I spawned a singularity at escape? The location didn't matter. I treated the item as an item. They bought it and used it. They had the option to buy any number of things but they chose a singularity spellbook. They were not punished or even warned for activating it because it was an admin item and they could be excused for not realizing the consequences. They were only ever talked to after they deliberately tried to grow it with other people.

I'm legitimately unsure how this situation gives you such cause to be angry and make a complaint. It's a fairly cut and dry situation. The fact that the ban was two days, for the two people he deliberately killed, and not much longer for the singularity's damage is proof this wasn't some kind of elaborate admin ban baiting.

[Intigracy]

This post was deleted by peoplearestrange on Tue Nov 25, 2014 3:42 pm.
Reason: Valid, but not invoved.

This forum administration is a joke.

[Timbrewolf]

This is a long chain of awful.

1) Being given an item by an event doesn't automatically make it okay for you to use it. Just because you have an item that can summon a singularity doesn't make it okay for you to do so. As a non-antagonist holding a book that could create a singularity, it's mechanically exactly the same as being a non-antagonist and carrying two bags-of-holding. Yeah, you COULD do something with it, but you shouldn't in the first place.

2) Admins are partly responsible for the stuff they hand out. You shouldn't be offering people a book that could create a singularity in the first place if you dont want them to use it. How is a person praying to summon it, and killing three people with it, any different from tossing people into it afterward? They're responsible for all those deaths (but so are you). You shouldn't answer the prayer to spawn it in the first place.

It's crazy how many of this big admin/player arguments come around as a result of both sides screwing up.

Tl;dr a non-antag shouldn't be praying for singularities to eat the station while holding an item that ostensibly does so.

An admin shouldn't be giving people items that spawn singularities or answering prayers from non-antags to make them in the first place.

After talking with HG we've decided the player can ride their ban out because they're still responsible for killing a bunch of players. It's the same as getting a pulse rifle from the event and then running around the halls annihilating people with it. Don't do that. If a wizard summons guns and you aren't a survivor, you can't run around gunning people down just 'cause HEY FREE GUN.

We've also lectured Sticky on what a crappy event this was and how he's also at fault for handing out the item/answering the prayer in the first place. I"m personally pushing to have Sticky's ability to run these kinds of events taken away for at least a little while. It's just plain stupid to be handing out this kind of stuff to players, answering their requests to use it while simultaneously banning them for doing so. You could've just said no. You could've not done this event in the first place, given how many complaint/ban request threads seem to pop up everytime one of these occurs.

We're not supposed to be running big events for just this reason. Read the damn admin-note.

[Ikarrus]

And Game Admins come another step closer to losing +FUN again.

Seriously, put some thought into admin shenanigans, even if it's just to end the round. Because it makes all of us look bad if you don't.

[Intigracy]

All I ask is that you put yourself in the player's shoes.

He threw the book he was given that he was told to just pray and a singulo would be spawned on it. So he threw it in escape, right next to the captain.

Rather than be told no, since he was a nonantag that the captain wasn't going to get gibbed by it, the admin just spawned it and gibbed the captain, as well as two others apparently.
With still no direction from the admin whatsoever that he shouldn't feed the singularity or help it grow, he believes that since an admin spawned it it was okay to make it grow larger to eat the escape hallway / more people.


Everyone keeps bringing up "w-well if it were a boh singulo he would have been banned" "b-but wizard summon guns", but not a single one of those require an admin's intervention to give them to you.
Even regular trading events are just you being given a gun/other item by someone IC, with the known intention that if you use it wrongly you're going to get banned. But the specific item he was given required an admin to spawn it for him, and he was given no warning that he shouldn't put it in escape when he tried, it was just spawned. And then it killed people and still no word to him, so he assumed he could feed it.

I keep bringing up HBL spawning pulse rifles for everyone because it's a much closer related topic to what happened. He'd spawn them constantly as a trialmin on badger, and people would constantly use them when given to them. Very rarely would the station remain a habitable environment when nonantags got their hands on pulse rifles. Yet nobody was banned for using the tools given to them that were very clearly just for them to have fun however with, but in this case the player is the one who has the finger pointed at him because he's the one who prayed and was led wrong in his assumption, thus it's his fault that he used the toy he was given to play with.

Changing the way things are handled when admins are running events is fine, so long as you tell them about it before you ban them.

You even try making it sound like it's his fault that the captain died when the singularity was spawned.

[goymaster123]

You don't get the final say in your own admin complaint, and this is something that needs to be addressed so people know what to expect when admins continue handing out dangerous shit like candy.

I swear you must be talking to someone else because I'm not sure I'm saying any of the things you imply I am. I ask again, What questions am I ignoring? Also how am I trying to get the final say in my admin complaint? Did I show any indication of that? I'm finding it hard to follow you when you don't actually respond to anything.

I'm still not exactly sure what your issue is.

Are you upset because the event was a terrible event? That doesn't matter. Everyone enjoyed themselves except the person deliberately seeking to ruin other's fun, which is the point of an event in the first place.

Are you upset someone got banned for abusing an admin given item to kill people? Setting a precedent like this is moronic and would result in de facto antag status being given to anyone with a pulse rifle. The player had no reason or right to deliberately kill people by throwing them in.

Are you upset because I spawned a singularity at escape? The location didn't matter. I treated the item as an item. They bought it and used it. They had the option to buy any number of things but they chose a singularity spellbook. They were not punished or even warned for activating it because it was an admin item and they could be excused for not realizing the consequences. They were only ever talked to after they deliberately tried to grow it with other people.

I'm legitimately unsure how this situation gives you such cause to be angry and make a complaint. It's a fairly cut and dry situation. The fact that the ban was two days, for the two people he deliberately killed, and not much longer for the singularity's damage is proof this wasn't some kind of elaborate admin ban baiting.

Gives a sing book, spawns a sing for you, kills a person in the process, when I kill people with it I'm the one abusing power. ALRIGHT

You treated an item like an item, because obviously admins are never responsible for their own actions. Also you and the pawn broker had no reason or right to spawn a singularity or give me a sing book in the first place, this is your fault as much as it is mine.

Cut and dry, because if an admin spawns a sing and kills people, it's perfectly fucking fine, but if a person who isn't an admin kills a person with a singularity spawned for him, OSHT NOW WE GOT PROBLEMS A PERSON WHO'S SUPPOSED TO ACT MATURE AND BE RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR ACTIONS ISN'T BEING RESPONSIBLE!!!!

It's a sad fucking day when the admins are held to less responsibility than the players, you're an asshat and should be deadmined for this giant hypocritical fiasco you started instead of swallowing your pride and admitting that you're wrong.

[Ikarrus]

Stickymayhem has had his privileges temporarily restricted.

If you have anything more to add, please send a Private Message to either myself and/or the other two headmins.