[MortoSasye] Kerbin_Fiber - SM Crates, Engineering Bait

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Kerbin_Fiber
 
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[MortoSasye] Kerbin_Fiber - SM Crates, Engineering Bait

Postby Kerbin_Fiber » Sat Dec 29, 2018 6:13 am #465606

Byond account and character name: Kerbin_Fiber, Kerbin Fiber

Banning admin: MortoSasye

Ban type (What are you banned from?): Server

Ban reason and length: "As an Engineer [Assistant], bough multiple SM shards to see the public reaction. When security tried to detain him and contain the shards inside brig, they opened the box in which the shards resided, leaving them outside on the hallway. Three persons died because of it, and it spread radiation all over the station. Please think about your actions." The ban is for 3 days.

Time ban was placed (including time zone): 2018-12-27 20:54:48

Server you were playing when banned (Sybil or Bagil): Bagil

Your side of the story: I had bought multiple SM shards, I planned on giving them to Engineering because that's where they belong. I had also bought multiple for the sole purpose of seeing the crew's reaction to a few SM shard crates sitting in the cargo lobby. However, as I was delivering a crate to Engineering, a random borg had flashed me and stole my crate, taking it to Security. I told Security and the borg that I was delivering them to Engineering and a Security Officer was present in my delivery. Even so, that borg (whose name I have no recollection of) kept flashing me and trying to take my crate. After a few failed attempts of relieving me of the crate, the borg incited Security to start taking every SM Shard crate, moving them all into Security. At that point, I was mad and decided, "If they want my crates so bad, then they can have them." I then took the one of the last crates available and took it in front of Security, where I took of the crate's paper, and open the crate. The HoS went after me (the first time someone actually tried to arrest me that round) and in the rush to get out and disarm him, I also ended up taking paper off of another SM shard crate. By doing so, the crates were automatically unlocked, in combination with the crowd that had gathered in front of Security, two crates were open.

Why you think you should be unbanned: The fact that the borg repeatedly tried to take my crates away on the only basis possible of, "Assistant has SM shard crate = Harm" without saying a word to me directly about the matter and rallying Security to forcibly take the crates in on the same basis and the fact the Security DID take them on essentially the same accusation, I had a right to retaliate, HOWEVER, the way I did retaliate, was too extreme. After this incident, I realize that even the possibility of Perma Death should be left to actual antags. I should have reacted in a better, less lethal, way. Upon coming to terms with what I had done, I decided to wait at least a day of my 3 day ban length, since I was in the wrong.

Edit: After looking through the logs, the crew did most of the damage. I only opened 1 crate right in front of security. When reading the logs (Quickest results are by Ctrl + F and searching for "shard"), other players took the crates, opened them and placed them in various places for various reasons. The CE was dragging shards across the station to space them, antagonists were taking some to get their greentext, other people acting out due to shards crates just existing.
Last edited by Kerbin_Fiber on Sat Dec 29, 2018 8:19 am, edited 1 time in total.



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MortoSasye
 
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Re: [MortoSasye] Kerbin_Fiber - SM Crates, Engineering Bait

Postby MortoSasye » Sat Dec 29, 2018 6:49 am #465611

Hello.

When i talked with you, i commited the mistake to not notice you were an assistant, automatically determining you were an engineer since in my mind an assistant wouldn't have both the money and a reason to buy that many shards. Your reason for buying that many shards was to do a ''social experiment'' to see how people would react.

You got the reaction you wanted from your experiment, yet became mad when the the supermatter shards you bough were confiscated by a cyborg, which their law 1 tells it to prevent human harm, and security, who saw the obvious danger in the shards being on hands of an assistant (Yes, i still blame myself for thinking you were an engineer), and reacting to killing them by leaving them outside the brig area is poor thinking to not say worse. Hell, even your method of ''killing security for vengeance'' was obviously going to fail since the shard would only get picked by someone else.

I guess that what you want is for your server ban to be reduced to only a day, which i will decline pending headmin revision. Your actions lead to the whole station being chernobyl in a few minutes, and three confirmed deaths from people to the sm shards you left on brig.

Full conversation between us obtained from https://tgstation13.org/raw-logs/basil/data/logs/2018/12/27/round-99327/game.log:

[2018-12-27 20:45:42.909] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: MortoSasye/(Bella Rouge)->Kerbin_Fiber/(Kerbin Fiber): Hey, do you have a moment?
[2018-12-27 20:45:49.638] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Kerbin_Fiber/(Kerbin Fiber)->MortoSasye/(Bella Rouge): Uhuh
[2018-12-27 20:46:39.120] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: MortoSasye/(Bella Rouge)->Kerbin_Fiber/(Kerbin Fiber): Why did you leave the SM shards outside in the hallways?
[2018-12-27 20:48:02.797] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Kerbin_Fiber/(Kerbin Fiber)->MortoSasye/(Bella Rouge): So, I wasn't doing that, at first, I was taking them to engie. Then All of sec decided to steal my fucking crates. Borg flashed me, they took the crates into sec. I decided, if they want my fucking crates so bad, they can have them. They weren't in the main hallways, they were in the Sec Hallways.
[2018-12-27 20:48:20.445] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: MortoSasye/(Bella Rouge)->Kerbin_Fiber/(Kerbin Fiber): Did you leave them open outside?
[2018-12-27 20:48:37.035] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Kerbin_Fiber/(Kerbin Fiber)->MortoSasye/(Bella Rouge): Right out of sec
[2018-12-27 20:48:48.657] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Kerbin_Fiber/(Kerbin Fiber)->MortoSasye/(Bella Rouge): Like right outside the airlock
[2018-12-27 20:48:58.125] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: MortoSasye/(Bella Rouge)->Kerbin_Fiber/(Kerbin Fiber): No, i mean if they were still inside the box or outside of it.[2018-12-27 20:49:51.611] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Kerbin_Fiber/(Kerbin Fiber)->MortoSasye/(Bella Rouge): All but two were outside the box, I dunno who opened the second one, but whenever you tear a crate's paper off, it unlockes the crate, since I'm the owner of them
[2018-12-27 20:51:14.496] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: MortoSasye/(Bella Rouge)->Kerbin_Fiber/(Kerbin Fiber): You understand that doing something so reckless as an engineer like leaving two sm shards outside of security, out of the box, is a bad thing to do right? Why did you even order that many?
[2018-12-27 20:52:10.508] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Kerbin_Fiber/(Kerbin Fiber)->MortoSasye/(Bella Rouge): I ordered that many to see how the public would react, and they reacted by forcibly taking ownership of something they don't own. It's capatalism now.
[2018-12-27 20:53:10.008] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: MortoSasye/(Bella Rouge)->Kerbin_Fiber/(Kerbin Fiber): Well, due to your reckless action multiple persons have died and there is a high level of radiation all over the station. I hope you understand that you broke the rules.
[2018-12-27 20:53:26.743] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Kerbin_Fiber/(Kerbin Fiber)->MortoSasye/(Bella Rouge): Tell sec not to break the rules
[2018-12-27 20:53:40.267] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Kerbin_Fiber/(Kerbin Fiber)->MortoSasye/(Bella Rouge): Also, just dont run into the shards smh

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Re: [MortoSasye] Kerbin_Fiber - SM Crates, Engineering Bait

Postby wesoda25 » Sat Dec 29, 2018 8:27 am #465647

I'm pretty sure I was HOS on this shift. Kerbin, you should have gotten a ban for just handing out the crates in the first place.

It doesn't matter if you didn't intend to open the other one, the fact that you did open one means you clearly intended for sec to die. And it is completely your fault the second was opened as well.

3 days is fucking light for this shit. The whole crew was hit super hard by radiation. Not to mention, most of the shards started spewing plasma (flaming) all over the place.

You spread literally the most harmful objects in the game, and then got salty when a borg tried to stop you. So you tried to kill security. Yikes man.

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Re: [MortoSasye] Kerbin_Fiber - SM Crates, Engineering Bait

Postby Kerbin_Fiber » Sat Dec 29, 2018 3:37 pm #465692

wesoda25 wrote:I'm pretty sure I was HOS on this shift. Kerbin, you should have gotten a ban for just handing out the crates in the first place.

You spread literally the most harmful objects in the game, and then got salty when a borg tried to stop you. So you tried to kill security. Yikes man.


You see, the reason why I'm here making the appeal is because,

    1. I did not hand out the crates, the fact that the borg was taking them to Security incited the crew to steal a crate for their own doing, not to mention the antags that utilized the crates.

    2. I did not spread the crates either. I took one to engineering, where they handle it. Security, the borg, and the crew, took almost all of the other crates, as they were sitting in the cargo lobby.

    3. The borg got Security against me, and because Security was against me, they took their own actions, separately from the borg. I did not try to kill security because of the borg, more-so of their own volition and actions.

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Dax Dupont
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Re: [MortoSasye] Kerbin_Fiber - SM Crates, Engineering Bait

Postby Dax Dupont » Sat Dec 29, 2018 3:47 pm #465696

In the public lobby or the cargo lobby?

If it's the public one it's the same as putting bombs on science desk and going 'WELL THEY WERE MEANT FOR MINING EKSDEE'.

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Re: [MortoSasye] Kerbin_Fiber - SM Crates, Engineering Bait

Postby Kerbin_Fiber » Sat Dec 29, 2018 3:56 pm #465698

The public lobby.

Still, if you left a bomb on the science desk, and someone else takes it, and kills multiple people, the person who did the actual killing is held liable.
Just like genetic syringes, you can't go injecting normies with I'M MONKEY syringes, but you can just leave them on the ground for the normies to use themselves.
^ This is implied on the wiki.

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Re: [MortoSasye] Kerbin_Fiber - SM Crates, Engineering Bait

Postby somerandomguy » Sun Dec 30, 2018 7:41 pm #465823

The syringes only affect people dumb enough to use them themselves

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Re: [MortoSasye] Kerbin_Fiber - SM Crates, Engineering Bait

Postby Kerbin_Fiber » Sun Dec 30, 2018 7:44 pm #465824

Same thing with dumb people opening SM Shard crates in the main hallways

this appeal doesn't even really matter cuz the ban ends in like 8 hours

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Re: [MortoSasye] Kerbin_Fiber - SM Crates, Engineering Bait

Postby somerandomguy » Sun Dec 30, 2018 7:54 pm #465827

Kerbin_Fiber wrote:Same thing with dumb people opening SM Shard crates in the main hallways

this appeal doesn't even really matter cuz the ban ends in like 8 hours

Wrong, other people might walk into/be irradiated by the SM shards or be blown up by a bomb

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Re: [MortoSasye] Kerbin_Fiber - SM Crates, Engineering Bait

Postby Kerbin_Fiber » Sun Dec 30, 2018 8:07 pm #465830

I know I'm wrong, I was just poking at the fact that you can just not walk into the shards and stay away from them to not get rads.

All in all, as I said, the crew did more damage than I ever did, I opened one crate right in front of Sec, where they quickly got rid of it, and about 7 other crates were opened and spread by the crew, not me.

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Re: [MortoSasye] Kerbin_Fiber - SM Crates, Engineering Bait

Postby Cobby » Sun Dec 30, 2018 8:35 pm #465838

Kerbin_Fiber wrote:The public lobby.

Still, if you left a bomb on the science desk, and someone else takes it, and kills multiple people, the person who did the actual killing is held liable.


Just FYI this is incorrect.

If you left a bomb on the RND desk available to the public, you can be held responsible as well as the actual bomber. At best you're helping antags with no IC justification.
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Re: [MortoSasye] Kerbin_Fiber - SM Crates, Engineering Bait

Postby Kerbin_Fiber » Sun Dec 30, 2018 8:39 pm #465840

Damn, gottem

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Re: [MortoSasye] Kerbin_Fiber - SM Crates, Engineering Bait

Postby Dax Dupont » Sun Dec 30, 2018 9:09 pm #465844

Floorpills and syringes named GODHOOD are a whole different story since they don't affect others.

Leaving weapons/tools of mass destruction publically are held to different standards as Cobby has explained.

Also you can stay away from the shards yes, but if you were to pass one accidentally you could get radiated enough, also radiation contaminates objects. If you leave a headset(or wear it) it can get contaminated and it will spread to the wearer and everyone around them.

What was the intention behind ordering these aside from 'they were for engineering', did engineering actually ask for 7 of these crystals?

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Re: [MortoSasye] Kerbin_Fiber - SM Crates, Engineering Bait

Postby Kerbin_Fiber » Sun Dec 30, 2018 9:26 pm #465850

>Buy about 8 SM Shards cuz "Funny meme"
>realize the station can't handle the meme
>try to hand them to Engi
>Borg has a loose CPU
>Sec starts unleashes autism
>crew opens crates
>open one crate due to autism

Kerbin_Fiber wrote:Damn, gottem

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Re: [MortoSasye] Kerbin_Fiber - SM Crates, Engineering Bait

Postby Kerbin_Fiber » Sun Dec 30, 2018 10:07 pm #465856

Also, I don't understand why I'm banned from all Engineering roles, I was an Assistant when I did this, and anyone can buy any crate from any department.

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Re: [MortoSasye] Kerbin_Fiber - SM Crates, Engineering Bait

Postby WarbossLincoln » Mon Dec 31, 2018 3:25 pm #465975

I think I was the AI or someone in sec this round. I remember there being 3 sm shards outside the brig and it fucked everything up. It probably led to the deaths of a dozen people, be happy with a 3 day ban. If someone left 8 cannisters of plasma in the halls for fun and it created a firestorm that killed 20 people they wouldn't get off with 3 days. And that's not nearly as dangerous as 8 SM shards.

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Re: [MortoSasye] Kerbin_Fiber - SM Crates, Engineering Bait

Postby Dax Dupont » Mon Dec 31, 2018 6:32 pm #465998

WarbossLincoln wrote:I think I was the AI or someone in sec this round. I remember there being 3 sm shards outside the brig and it fucked everything up. It probably led to the deaths of a dozen people, be happy with a 3 day ban. If someone left 8 cannisters of plasma in the halls for fun and it created a firestorm that killed 20 people they wouldn't get off with 3 days. And that's not nearly as dangerous as 8 SM shards.

This is correct. If it was me he'd be looking at a week minimum, probably more. We usually handle a day per death rule, though the blame is partially deflected to others so it'd be a bit less than 1 for 1.

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Re: [MortoSasye] Kerbin_Fiber - SM Crates, Engineering Bait

Postby Kerbin_Fiber » Tue Jan 01, 2019 6:17 pm #466320

Cool, but, how does this coincide with the full on Engi ban I got.

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Re: [MortoSasye] Kerbin_Fiber - SM Crates, Engineering Bait

Postby somerandomguy » Tue Jan 01, 2019 7:43 pm #466333

Kerbin_Fiber wrote:Cool, but, how does this coincide with the full on Engi ban I got.

If you can't handle SM crates responsibly as assistant then being engi (where you have easier access to the engine, atmos, etc) might not end well

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Re: [MortoSasye] Kerbin_Fiber - SM Crates, Engineering Bait

Postby Cobby » Tue Jan 01, 2019 9:34 pm #466351

somerandomguy wrote:
Kerbin_Fiber wrote:Cool, but, how does this coincide with the full on Engi ban I got.

If you can't handle SM crates responsibly as assistant then being engi (where you have easier access to the engine, atmos, etc) might not end well


you can bypass access if you have the money req via direct purchase so it doesn't make much sense.
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Re: [MortoSasye] Kerbin_Fiber - SM Crates, Engineering Bait

Postby Dax Dupont » Sat Jan 05, 2019 4:43 pm #467153

Waiting for headmin resolution.

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Re: [MortoSasye] Kerbin_Fiber - SM Crates, Engineering Bait

Postby Arianya » Sat Jan 05, 2019 4:57 pm #467158

This is basically willful negligence. You don't get to leave SM shards in hallways and then go "DiD i Do ThAt?" when it kills people. Ditto for leaving unlocked SM shard crates in public.

Additionally, all bans associated with this appeal have long since expired, and I don't find the note given in relation to those bans materially false or grossly unfair to you as a player.

This is resolved.
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