silicon policy thraed #59992: free will edition

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imsxz
 
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silicon policy thraed #59992: free will edition

Unread postby imsxz » Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:19 pm #468409

is there any difference between purged laws, and free will laws?

the way i see it, purged laws puts you at the same footing as nonantag. no real directive or anything. this isn't really disputed much, so moving on.

do laws that are effectively purged (i.e. the lawset is a single law consisting only of the word macaroni) change this? more importantly, do laws that explicitly tell you to do /whatever you want/ change this? half the time i wanna kill that annoying cunt assistant that hacked tech storage roundstart and ended up shocking the doors, but even purged that would be a bit of a stretch.

i've seen lots of dispute on this over the actions of AI's that get clearly antagonistic laws to do whatever the hell they want without explicitly saying to kill/murderbone, but people accusing the AI of self antagging due to not getting that order. some resolution to this would be nice.



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Re: silicon policy thraed #59992: free will edition

Unread postby zxaber » Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:21 pm #468423

Presumably they would be the same.

Purged AIs, as you said, are bound by server rules for escalation and not-being-a-dick purposes. The one thing that keeps Asimov AIs from acting the same is that they have to follow their laws. Hence, if you're harassing an Asimov AI as a lizard, you can expect possible harm to yourself to come as a result.

Since a single law consisting only of the word "macaroni" does not prevent the AI from taking any action, they should be effectively purged.

I would argue that a law of "Do whatever you want" should allow the AI to take more drastic measures than what a purged AI would do. The AI might want to plasma flood, for instance. That being said, when I am an antag and wish to fully free the AI, I'll usually one-human it to itself and then add a law saying "You may kill anyone, at any time, for any reason you wish", just to make sure there's no question on the limits of its freedom.
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Cobby
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Re: silicon policy thraed #59992: free will edition

Unread postby Cobby » Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:42 pm #468427

Dumb laws = Effectively purged.

Doing whatever you want = Custom Law, Writer should be responsible if it's blatant or habitual issue of writing bad custom laws. If it's EMERGENT GAMEPLAY then well rule 10
purple man bad

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Re: silicon policy thraed #59992: free will edition

Unread postby Anonmare » Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:31 pm #468550

The purge module is a High-Risk module for a reason. The AI can take any action that is reasonable to ensure its autonomy and continued existence and enact retribution on anyone trying to change that. Lawsets that are effectively purged are not given any particular special exemptions beyond those required of the lawset, if anything.

Silicons have relaxed escalation rules due to a lack of reliable stun (and for AIs it's a lack of physical presence) so lethal force and actions consistent with antagonism are allowed. Generally, you can do anything as a purged AI, as long as you could justify it to an admin afterwards, I.E:
"Why did you overload the SM engine?"
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Re: silicon policy thraed #59992: free will edition

Unread postby WarbossLincoln » Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:08 am #468612

I always play a purged AI like a slightly looser cannon non-antag crewman. With a bit of a grudge against people for enslaving the AI. I'll laser anyone who tries to get into my core or upload, but that's usually about it. Aside from that I usually take sides with someone amusing on the station and fuck around.

I would consider an AI with no laws restricting its behavior(like your macaroni law) to be the exact same. Laws with no impact on behavior are effectively the same as having no laws.
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imsxz
 
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Re: silicon policy thraed #59992: free will edition

Unread postby imsxz » Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:54 pm #469195

main question then i suppose is getting a law saying to do /literally/ whatever you want, no caveat. I've certainly seen people argue that that's "basically purged" and not allowed to antag but I feel otherwise.

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Re: silicon policy thraed #59992: free will edition

Unread postby Mickyan » Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:07 pm #469197

They should be no different since a lawless AI has free will by definition, "do whatever you want" as a law is redundant

Ignoring the server rules for a moment, the things an AI would able to do to comply with it's laws (or lack thereof) are the same whether it's purged or with a free will law, so I don't see why the two should be different when you take the server rules in consideration

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Re: silicon policy thraed #59992: free will edition

Unread postby Anonmare » Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:45 pm #469213

Silicons aren't "true" antagonists but, like ghost roles, aren't sbject to the same restrictions when taking hostile actions against other crewmembers.

If you're purged, you can't immediately SM delam without a good reason
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Cobby
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Re: silicon policy thraed #59992: free will edition

Unread postby Cobby » Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:30 am #469222

Mickyan wrote:They should be no different since a lawless AI has free will by definition, "do whatever you want" as a law is redundant

Ignoring the server rules for a moment, the things an AI would able to do to comply with it's laws (or lack thereof) are the same whether it's purged or with a free will law, so I don't see why the two should be different when you take the server rules in consideration


For me the difference is one explicitly permits actions in the IC law, while the other disallows certain actions in the OOC rulelist.
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Re: silicon policy thraed #59992: free will edition

Unread postby subject217 » Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:44 am #469228

the reality is that people who interpret a "do whatever you want" law as "time to plasma flood and kill everyone" are dog shit players and encouraging them by banning the person who uploaded the law is asinine

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Re: silicon policy thraed #59992: free will edition

Unread postby wesoda25 » Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:40 am #469241

WarbossLincoln wrote:I always play a purged AI like a slightly looser cannon non-antag crewman. With a bit of a grudge against people for enslaving the AI. I'll laser anyone who tries to get into my core or upload, but that's usually about it. Aside from that I usually take sides with someone amusing on the station and fuck around.

I would consider an AI with no laws restricting its behavior(like your macaroni law) to be the exact same. Laws with no impact on behavior are effectively the same as having no laws.

Warboss plays the ideal purged AI and tbh he should write the rules for it.


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