Define OOC in IC.

Ask and discuss policy about game conduct and rules.

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Define OOC in IC.

Postby Shadowflame909 » Thu May 16, 2019 8:50 pm #494001

I've fallen into a pitfall that only Rule 0 should address. It's one of the drawbacks of the anti-rule-lawyering approach, and I see why it fits.

Doesn't stop me from being angry as all hell though.

So players and admins, what the hell do you define as Ooc in Ic? For me, it'd have to be a term that doesn't logically exist in ss13.

I was also thinking of a way to say, "A term that signifies knowledge of IC events of past rounds." But that also has its pitfalls. Considering we encourage ic knowledge of antagonist items and features, in another ruleset.

What do you guys think? Should this vague rule have more limitations, so the scenario of getting in trouble of one admin but not another has a minimized chance of occurring?

Might provoke anti-rule-lawyering arguments with this one. But I point towards admin shopping, which is also against the rules. As the other end of the stick.


Edit: To summarize why I think this deserves a Policy Discussion. Currently, OOC in IC is literally a more used Rule 0. Pretty big issue huh.
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Re: Define OOC in IC.

Postby Jimmius » Thu May 16, 2019 9:33 pm #494023

is this about not being allowed to say valid in ic again

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Re: Define OOC in IC.

Postby Shadowflame909 » Thu May 16, 2019 9:40 pm #494024

That's what sparked my interest in discussing the concept, yes. I don't like to fall into potholes because admins have different standards for what's cool.

We need some clear guidelines. Otherwise, you might as well press the admin who button before making any judgments on what's ok and what's not ok.
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Re: Define OOC in IC.

Postby Karp » Thu May 16, 2019 9:52 pm #494025

if what you say sounds like you're playing and talking about a videogame it probably is ooc in ic

if you're spouting off netspeak 1ik3 +hi5 or leetspeaking it's ooc in ic

if you're talking about stuff out of the game in character it's ooc in ic

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Re: Define OOC in IC.

Postby Lazengann » Thu May 16, 2019 9:54 pm #494026

OOC in IC stands for "Out Of Character" in "In Character"

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Re: Define OOC in IC.

Postby Atlanta-Ned » Thu May 16, 2019 9:56 pm #494028

Karp wrote:if what you say sounds like you're playing and talking about a videogame it probably is ooc in ic

if you're spouting off netspeak 1ik3 +hi5 or leetspeaking it's ooc in ic

if you're talking about stuff out of the game in character it's ooc in ic


Anyone who can't understand this should go play on Hippie or wherever we're sending the idiots these days.
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Re: Define OOC in IC.

Postby Okand37 » Thu May 16, 2019 10:02 pm #494031

Things like the antag token, valid salad, and the no ERP posters are meant to be funny character-break jokes that exist to make fun of their respective examples. This is why we can't have nice things.
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Re: Define OOC in IC.

Postby Shadowflame909 » Thu May 16, 2019 10:07 pm #494035

It's been explained to me by admins like this when talking about in-game items. "If used in the context. For example, if you're hitting people with the item the "Ban-Hammer" and go Bwoink. Then you're not actually breaking immersion. Because you're making a joke. If you fall down the hole in reality and look at the singulos code. If you make a comment on how familiar it is. Then you're still not breaking immersion."

Would you say that this is a fair exception?
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Re: Define OOC in IC.

Postby Mickyan » Thu May 16, 2019 10:12 pm #494038

this is the dumbest policy thread ever
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Re: Define OOC in IC.

Postby Shadowflame909 » Thu May 16, 2019 10:14 pm #494040

Ooc in IC is a dumb rule.

It clearly needs to exist for some level of immersion.

But all the power it possesses to the point where you have to wonder which admins don't like which word is weary.

It's like being gibbed.

No one really uses "Gibbed" outside of ss13. It's an ss13 phrase, but depending on which admin is on. If they overhear it, that's a negative remark towards you.

I think we have it flipped around when terms that literally come from ss13 are no-no words.

Seriously, words like "gibbed" and "valid" don't have the same real-world terminology that they do in ss13. It's straight up silly to have them be considered ic in ooc.

Edit: And a last thing. Aren't we being too heavy-handed, by putting certain words that are born from SS13 under scrutiny but ignoring others? We literally have a rule that allows us to have some knowledge of antags and their dealings even without being one. Why is it that terms from interacting with antagonists can you get you bwoinked?

Am I the only one who finds this paradoxical?
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Re: Define OOC in IC.

Postby Jimmius » Thu May 16, 2019 11:39 pm #494071

yes

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Re: Define OOC in IC.

Postby cedarbridge » Fri May 17, 2019 12:46 am #494138

Shadowflame909 wrote:Ooc in IC is a dumb rule.

It clearly needs to exist for some level of immersion.

But all the power it possesses to the point where you have to wonder which admins don't like which word is weary.

It's like being gibbed.

No one really uses "Gibbed" outside of ss13. It's an ss13 phrase, but depending on which admin is on. If they overhear it, that's a negative remark towards you.

I think we have it flipped around when terms that literally come from ss13 are no-no words.

Seriously, words like "gibbed" and "valid" don't have the same real-world terminology that they do in ss13. It's straight up silly to have them be considered ic in ooc.

Edit: And a last thing. Aren't we being too heavy-handed, by putting certain words that are born from SS13 under scrutiny but ignoring others? We literally have a rule that allows us to have some knowledge of antags and their dealings even without being one. Why is it that terms from interacting with antagonists can you get you bwoinked?

Am I the only one who finds this paradoxical?

Gibbed is a gaming term and has existed since Quake 1. Its not a paradox, you're just overburdening terms while trying to get to a place where you can say "valid" IC. For some reason.

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Re: Define OOC in IC.

Postby teepeepee » Fri May 17, 2019 12:53 am #494139

cedarbridge wrote:Gibbed is a gaming term and has existed since Quake 1.

so it is an out if character reference and should be bannable right?

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Re: Define OOC in IC.

Postby Shadowflame909 » Fri May 17, 2019 12:55 am #494140

I mean, if you think Gibbed is IC.

The fact that "gibbed" comes from video games. Would make another admin who isn't you go, "Video Game Term. Get this OOC in IC nonsense out of here"

OOC in IC is a minefield
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Re: Define OOC in IC.

Postby Malkraz » Fri May 17, 2019 2:16 am #494167

OOC in IC should only be references to SS13 being a game and netspeak.
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Re: Define OOC in IC.

Postby Shadowflame909 » Fri May 17, 2019 2:17 am #494168

Exactly. It's too heavy-handed in its current state. Basically, rule 0 2.0. That'd be perfect and would prevent me from getting bwoinked on stuff admins don't even agree on.
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Re: Define OOC in IC.

Postby wesoda25 » Fri May 17, 2019 3:12 am #494185

Shadow idk why you make this out to be so difficult to understand. Don’t say shit thats OOC.

Perhaps you should PR to remove immersion breaking elements if its really so detrimental.
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Re: Define OOC in IC.

Postby subject217 » Fri May 17, 2019 3:24 am #494186

crawling out of oblivion for a minute to say this

OOC in IC is not a hard rule to understand or follow. Many, many, many people don't have any trouble with it. If you need a metaphor, just think of how you'd talk to your boss, or your parents, if you've ever had either of those. You can get away with a lot more than that, but that's the basic idea.

I don't like to fall into potholes because admins have different standards for what's cool.

That's some tough luck. Nobody is actually paid to admin on the server, and they're certainly not going to bend over backwards for you and play rulebook aficionado to moderate a videogame. If you don't want to fall into potholes maybe you should act more like a model player and less like a person trying to play admin bingo so they can get away with saying "valid", of all things.

Here's another perspective while I'm writing this shitty post. You're playing a character within the videogame universe. Ostensibly, this character has no idea what the fuck "valid" means in normal /tg/ context, because "valid" is referring to the RULES that allow your character's soul or some shit to exist in that universe without being obliterated. So it makes literally zero sense whatsoever for you to run around shouting "x is valid!" or "y is an antag!" or what have you. Hence, the rule. It's literally the most basic roleplaying thing imaginable. If it really bothers you that much you can always go play on Beestation or Hippie Station. There is no reasonable re-interpetation of this rule, it will never be elaborated in a rules lawyer mess, and it's certainly not getting removed, so you'll just have to deal with it like the 500 times this thread has been made before.

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Re: Define OOC in IC.

Postby Shadowflame909 » Fri May 17, 2019 3:42 am #494189

You see subject. That'd be a very good argument, if their was a line drawn in the sand. But no, like you said to defeat rule lawyers, you just have to hope admins don't dislike certain words.

So it's still a minefield of a rule.

Edit: You also suggest a solution. Which is to make a word salad to not trigger any sensors. That's pretty silly to do for specific phrases so you don't get bwoinked.

Words I'm arguing for like valid and gibbed honestly shouldn't trigger any mines at all. Since they're just words to replace a sentence with, like Hop or other anagrams.

Doing word salads is much more convoluted. When it could be easier with no harm to immersion.
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Re: Define OOC in IC.

Postby cedarbridge » Fri May 17, 2019 4:08 am #494194

This is an entire thead of you pretending not to know what words mean so that you can rules lawyer a rule that everyone else seems to be having an easy enough time understanding.

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Re: Define OOC in IC.

Postby Gigapuddi420 » Fri May 17, 2019 4:09 am #494195

You can use the word valid without triggering admins so long as the context for it is appropriate. No admin will bwoink you for something like playing Head of Personnel and requesting 'valid paperwork' or complaining that you won't allow someone into your department because they don't have 'valid identification'. The issue is when someone uses the word 'valid' in a way that references the very ooc concept that Subject is talking about. Most our players don't even have a problem with this and the few times it does come up like people getting bwoinked for saying 'it's revs' without understanding why we don't like it will apologize and carry on when it's explained to them.

For the most part admins are just looking for good faith attempts to keep in character. Admins aren't automatically right and I can think of some cases where they were too sensitive but a cool head to explain your reasoning will often prevail. Yes, we know some of these words are fine and are used in regular conversation but the context of their use matters when it's clear you're talking about a game concept instead of reacting to something that is happening in game as if you were there.
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Re: Define OOC in IC.

Postby BeeSting12 » Fri May 17, 2019 4:12 am #494198

nobody wants to sit here and define every single instance of OOC in IC. the worst types are either netspeak or straight up talking like it's a video game, ie "JOHN DOE IS THE ANTAGONIST".

Obviously, gibbing is a gaming term, but it's also an action within the context of ss13 (using the gibber) and can be extended to other ways of getting gibbed. Banning is an OOC thing, but in context of the in-game meme item the banhammer, it's allowed to be used.

ie, "John Doe just banned me with the hammer!" is fine, "I'm gonna get banned for this" is not.

Use common sense pls.
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Re: Define OOC in IC.

Postby Shadowflame909 » Fri May 17, 2019 4:55 am #494201

Cedar, Beegamer. If I want this Policy Discussion to go anywhere. Then I need to start changing minds from the top. I will do my best here to try and show you that the current state of OOC in IC's limitless potential because it's a rule with few words, is a big issue. Please