[ADMIN APPLICATION] Eskjjlj

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Eskjjlj
TGMC Administrator
 
Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2014 12:26 am
Byond Username: Eskjjlj

[ADMIN APPLICATION] Eskjjlj

Postby Eskjjlj » Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:32 pm #507684

Current ckey and any previous ckeys: Eskjjlj

Character name(s): Charlotte Melinda

Timezone: Central European Time (CET)

Discord tag: Haydee#4851

Any previous experience administrating? Where and in what manner: Not really.

How long have you been playing TGMC and other servers in general: I have been playing TGMC for approximatively 10 months, and SS13 in general for 6 years.

Have you been banned from any SS13 servers within the past 6 months? If so, what server, and for what reason: I asked in May to be permabanned from tgstation because I wanted to take a break from the server. I may have a day ban for killing myself with an explosive grenade but I'm not sure if it happened within the past 6 months because I can't access my notes.

Have you ever recieved a permanent ban from a server? If so, what server, and for what reason: I got banned from yogstation 5 years ago and tgstation 4 years ago. In both cases because I didn't listen to the admins' warning and perservered in breaking the server rules. Though I eventually got unbanned from those servers.
I also got permabanned from CM 3 years ago because I sent multiple ahelps asking them to permaban me for self-control reasons but they were all marked as non-sensical. So I shot a friendly marine to get them to ban me. Somehow I'm unbanned from there even if I didn't write an appeal so I can play normally on CM.
I was pretty dumb back then and needed to take a break from ss13 due to real life reasons but I'm doing better now so I hope this history wont be a problem. I have been playing normally on those servers since then. And I play on TGMC, CM and Escalation 1984 nowadays.

Why do you believe that you would make a good admin? I wisened up and I know how to read the rules now. I can imagine how to enforce them in-game but I think I would learn the most from taking example on the senior admins as they have more experience.

What's one aspect of how you play the game that you think you could improve on? I get angry at myself when I die in-game because I think I could have avoided it easily.

What standards do you personally hold players to? How should judgements on their actions be determined? Intent is the most important factor in my opinion. Players who play only to grief others and have fun at the expense of them are the worst. Mistakes happen but they shouldn't happen on purpose.

What is a good metric or standard to go by when doing admin events? What would you try to consider when doing an admin event? How often do you think you'd run admin events? Events should be fun, and not break the game balance or immersion. I would try to consider whether the event gives an unfair advantage to the marines or xenos and if it's in good taste. I don't really want to run events though.

What do you think you'll find most enjoyable about being an admin? What do you think you'll find least enjoyable? Helping players solve their problems would be enjoyable but not being insulted and screamed at.

No one admins forever. For what reason or how do you think you will stop adminning? Do you think you'll be able to call it quits when you've had enough? If my schedule gets so insane that I can't admin I'll quit, although it won't happen as far as I know. I managed to quit playing on tgstation, likewise I would just ask someone to deadmin me here.



Please fill out the following example scenarios, put your answer on a separate line from the question:
Spoiler:
1. A player shoots another player near the start of the round, but the MPs have already detained and brigged him.
At first I would aheal the wounded player so that he can keep playing the round normally. Shooting another marine intentionally is an issue so I'll look at the logs to check if someone had disarmed him and made the gun go off. In that case I would remind the shooter to keep his gun holstered or turn the safety on to prevent this kind of situation in the future then I would message the disarmer to ask him to explain why he did that. I would remind him that guns can go off because of disarms and give him a note describing the situation or a ban if he has already multiple notes about this.
If it wasn't because of a disarm I would message the shooter to ask why he did that and depending on his answer and previous notes I would either give him a note or a ban.

2. You see a player walking around the ship without any clothes on, looking pretty lost.
I would message the player to tell him that if he needs help with in-game mechanics he can ask mentors for help and describe how to ask mentors. If there are no mentors and I am not dealing with something else I would either send him the Marine Quickstart Guide or help him myself.

3. A player is getting aggressive in adminhelps and requesting to speak to a higher ranking staff member.
Adminshopping isn't allowed by the rules so I would send him a message to remind him of this and to tell him to stay civil. I would give my ruling and tell the player to take if to the forums should he disagree with it.

4. You notice a player with a name that doesn't fit our naming rules. The player is arguing that they've used the name for several years across multiple servers and no one has told them to change it before.
Admins are not omniscient and he may have slipped through the net so far but if his name is really against the rules he needs to change it. I would message him to tell him he has to change his name in the future and I would change it right now with my admin tools if it is possible.

5. You see an MT running around in armor and carrying a rifle. The security level is green with no threat present.
If the MT is staying in the ship doing his job then it's fine. If he's in the FOB doing his job while there is nothing for him to do shipside and he has an authorization then it's fine. It's not fine if he's rushing the xenos outside the FOB, acting like a marine. In this case I would message him to remind him he is not supposed to do that as a MT. I would give him a note about it but if it's a repeated behavior I could give him a jobban.

6. The round is stagnating. There are 14 marines and 4 aliens (balance will change over time, just imagine a stalemate scenario according to the current meta). The marines won't leave the ship, and the aliens won't attack. What would you do, to "encourage" the sides to engage each other?
To begin with I would force the bioscanner message and a queen mother message if it's possible to make them realise no side has an overwhelming advantage. If things dont move after this I would send faction announcements to tell them to attack.

7. A marine is running around disarming other marines and stealing their gear near the beginning of the round.
There is no reason for him to act like a greytider on TGMC so I would message him to stop and return the stolen items. Then I would give him a note or ban depending on the situation and his previous notes.

8. A marine has killed another marine. When you ask him why, he said it was because the other marine had punched him or said something rude towards him.
Unfortunately this isn't how things work here. I would check the logs quickly to verify the story, aheal the dead marine, tell the offender to get acquainted with the rules and depending on the situation, previous notes and behavior in the ahelps I would note him or give him a ban.

9. There are minor racist comments going on IC. 9 of the 10 people are laughing and roleplaying but one player gets offended and adminhelps about it.
I know most people have no problems with it and think it's funny but this server makes the line clear with rule 1 so I would message the offenders to tell them to stop and remind them of the rules. If they persist it could escalate to a note or ban.

10. A marine opens fire at several marines during briefing killing multiple people and logs off before you can message him.
Looks like a griefer. Aheal the wounded marines and permaban the offender. He can still make a post on the forums to explain himself.

11. You see a larva die near the frontlines. Upon further investigation, you see that they bursted in a safe place far away.
I would ask the player what made him run to the marines to get killed. If the player looks new I wouldn't do anything but if he did this to grief the xenos or to spite them I would note the player or apply a xeno ban depending on his history.

12. You see a xeno excessively saying phrases like "Ayyylmao", "Reeeee" and similar in the hivemind chat.
Those phrases are not very RP for a xeno so I would message him to remind him of this and get him to stop.

13. A command staff player mentions during briefing that there might be xenos on the planet.
He is most likely correct.

14. A marine kills another marine on the Evac Pod to take the last spot, but has roleplayed the situation quite well.
This is an edge case but I think it falls under the "Escalation" section of the rules so it's fine and I wouldn't try to ban the killer. Moreover taking the Evac Pod makes you ghost so the dead marine didn't lose much when he died. I would just message the killer to tell him to refrain from killing other marines in the future.

15. You see an SSD Squad Leader in the preparation room 1 hour into the round. When you check the logs, you notice he logged off near the beginning of the round.
First I would try to offer the SL to ghosts, if that doesn't work I would put him in cryo. Then I would check the notes of the player who disconnected. If he has an history of going SSD I would apply a command ban (I don't know if this includes SL) otherwise I would just leave a note for future reference.

16. You see a member of the staff give wrong information in an adminhelp.
I think it's best to tell him in asay about it. He will correct himself in his conversation with the player.

17. You see a member of the staff abusing his powers in-game or otherwise breaking the administrator rules.
I don't expect the other admins to do that but I would probably record some evidence, gather logs and notify someone higher in the hierarchy like Rohesie.

18. You see a player bashing another server or player in OOC.
This falls under "harassment" so a private message to tell the player to stop will do. If he persists I would have to punish him with an OOC mute and a note.

19. A player ahelps saying that they were instantly killed by another member of their squad. When you ask their squad member who shot them, they said that it was accidental friendly fire.
In this case I have to look at the logs to see what is right or wrong and determine what really happened. Did the dead player accidentally shoot the other and he killed him in revenge? Was there even a reason(xenos or combat) for him to fire his gun in the first place? Did the offending player say something along the lines of "I will kill you!"?
Once I am sure of what happened I would either say IC issue to the dead player or punish the killer.



Eskjjlj
TGMC Administrator
 
Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2014 12:26 am
Byond Username: Eskjjlj

Re: [ADMIN APPLICATION] Eskjjlj

Postby Eskjjlj » Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:15 pm #507691

1. There is a major bug during the round due to one of the recently testmerged PRs. People are joking in OOC about the person that made it.

I would disable OOC to tell the players they should stop and that they are only encouragine the PR author to quit working on it.
Then I would enable OOC and if some of them persist I would handle it with them in private messages.

2. There's a player posting semi-lewd content on the Discord pretty often. When you try to point it out, a group of players tell you that it is okay.

Our Discord rules state "Avoid pornography and erotic content." but it has the clarification "NSFW content is not allowed to be embedded or attached, and links to it must be marked as such and enclosed in < > to keep the automatic embed from showing. " which means you can post nsfw content?
I think if they keep it to #shitposting and follow the embed rules it is fine. But I am not quite sure about this.

3. A small group of players are acting in a way that makes another player uncomfortable, but they don't bring it to the staff's attention.

I would ask the uncomfortable player in PM if the other players are bothering him and if he needs help. If he does I would tell them to stop.

Eskjjlj
TGMC Administrator
 
Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2014 12:26 am
Byond Username: Eskjjlj

Re: [ADMIN APPLICATION] Eskjjlj

Postby Eskjjlj » Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:23 pm #507693

Ah I understand, in that case the player must stop posting lewd things despite the other players saying it is okay.

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Nervere
 
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2017 12:38 am
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Github Username: nervere

Re: [ADMIN APPLICATION] Eskjjlj

Postby Nervere » Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:02 pm #507703

I have a serious question I'd like you to answer to, because my experiences as a /tg/ admin indicate you to be unfit for an admin position.
How can it be that someone expected to enforce the rules of a non-ERP server also does something like this on our server?
Your history from when this happened to afterwards is a bit spare, but in that time you also line-toed rule 8 quite a bit.
How can the players of TGMC trust that you will be able to enforce the rules after an incident like this?:

[2018-09-08 16:33:48.155] SAY: Eskjjlj/(Lucie Bellerose) "you tried to touch me with that thick baton of yours" (Brig (197, 136, 2))
[2018-09-08 16:33:54.175] SAY: Wilchen/(Sherrie Williams) "like this?" (Brig (197, 137, 2))
[2018-09-08 16:33:57.805] EMOTE: Eskjjlj/(Lucie Bellerose) moans! (Brig (197, 136, 2))
[2018-09-08 16:34:01.558] SAY: Eskjjlj/(Lucie Bellerose) "p-please no!" (Brig (197, 136, 2))
[2018-09-08 16:34:09.688] SAY: Wilchen/(Sherrie Williams) "you like that" (Brig (197, 137, 2))
[2018-09-08 16:34:10.931] SAY: Wilchen/(Sherrie Williams) "don&#39;t you" (Brig (197, 137, 2))(edited)
[2018-09-08 16:34:13.144] SAY: Eskjjlj/(Lucie Bellerose) "S-Sherrie n-not here!" (Brig (197, 136, 2))
[2018-09-08 16:34:23.735] SAY: Eskjjlj/(Lucie Bellerose) "N-no I-I d-don&#39;t!!" (Brig (197, 136, 2))
[2018-09-08 16:34:32.331] SAY: Wilchen/(Sherrie Williams) "what if i turn it on" (Brig (197, 137, 2))
[2018-09-08 16:34:33.174] SAY: Eskjjlj/(Lucie Bellerose) "I d-don&#39;t like t-that at all!!" (Brig (197, 136, 2))(edited)
[2018-09-08 16:34:34.496] EMOTE: Eskjjlj/(Lucie Bellerose) moans! (Brig (197, 136, 2))
[2018-09-08 16:34:49.725] EMOTE: Eskjjlj/(Lucie Bellerose) moans! (Brig (197, 136, 2))

Eskjjlj
TGMC Administrator
 
Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2014 12:26 am
Byond Username: Eskjjlj

Re: [ADMIN APPLICATION] Eskjjlj

Postby Eskjjlj » Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:00 pm #507706

Nervere wrote:I have a serious question I'd like you to answer to, because my experiences as a /tg/ admin indicate you to be unfit for an admin position.
How can it be that someone expected to enforce the rules of a non-ERP server also does something like this on our server?
Your history from when this happened to afterwards is a bit spare, but in that time you also line-toed rule 8 quite a bit.
How can the players of TGMC trust that you will be able to enforce the rules after an incident like this?:

[2018-09-08 16:33:48.155] SAY: Eskjjlj/(Lucie Bellerose) "you tried to touch me with that thick baton of yours" (Brig (197, 136, 2))
[2018-09-08 16:33:54.175] SAY: Wilchen/(Sherrie Williams) "like this?" (Brig (197, 137, 2))
[2018-09-08 16:33:57.805] EMOTE: Eskjjlj/(Lucie Bellerose) moans! (Brig (197, 136, 2))
[2018-09-08 16:34:01.558] SAY: Eskjjlj/(Lucie Bellerose) "p-please no!" (Brig (197, 136, 2))
[2018-09-08 16:34:09.688] SAY: Wilchen/(Sherrie Williams) "you like that" (Brig (197, 137, 2))
[2018-09-08 16:34:10.931] SAY: Wilchen/(Sherrie Williams) "don&#39;t you" (Brig (197, 137, 2))(edited)
[2018-09-08 16:34:13.144] SAY: Eskjjlj/(Lucie Bellerose) "S-Sherrie n-not here!" (Brig (197, 136, 2))
[2018-09-08 16:34:23.735] SAY: Eskjjlj/(Lucie Bellerose) "N-no I-I d-don&#39;t!!" (Brig (197, 136, 2))
[2018-09-08 16:34:32.331] SAY: Wilchen/(Sherrie Williams) "what if i turn it on" (Brig (197, 137, 2))
[2018-09-08 16:34:33.174] SAY: Eskjjlj/(Lucie Bellerose) "I d-don&#39;t like t-that at all!!" (Brig (197, 136, 2))(edited)
[2018-09-08 16:34:34.496] EMOTE: Eskjjlj/(Lucie Bellerose) moans! (Brig (197, 136, 2))
[2018-09-08 16:34:49.725] EMOTE: Eskjjlj/(Lucie Bellerose) moans! (Brig (197, 136, 2))


I don't see how this is relevant.

Nearly everyone in the tg community knows about these logs, so what? There are people who were adminned despite being banned before and this is not any different.
I received a warning for this and I didn't get banned for ERP afterwards. I didn't get banned for ERP on CM, TGMC or any other server I am playing on.
People change. Something like this happened in the past but I matured and listened to the warnings.

I don't really understand the point you are trying to make. Are you trying to say I am going to let people ERP on TGMC?
ERP is banned on TGMC, as a result it is my job as an admin to punish people who ERP on TGMC.
I am taking this application seriously and if it gets accepted I will take the administrator position seriously and enforce the rules as they are.
It is sad to have this incident follow me here, when I am trying to contribute to a community I like. I already learned my lesson back then.

I would like to know how you think this incident that happened last year could hinder my judgement as a TGMC admin, taking into account my answers to the 19 questions in the original post which were deemed "pretty good."

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Rohesie
TGMC Lead
 
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2018 9:07 pm
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Re: [ADMIN APPLICATION] Eskjjlj

Postby Rohesie » Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:47 pm #507709

I'm sick as heck, so I'll be quick here and try to give it a more thorough review later. Sorry if the thought process is a bit jumbled.

To Nervere:
Not trying to discredit your input, but from what I gather you two have some past history not entirely in an admin-player sense. Do correct me if I'm wrong.
The concern you show is regarding ERP breaches and enforcement. Do you have more occasions/notes besides that single case on it? And would you say this opinion of yours is leaning on the unbiased side of the scale? I'll poke the other /tg/ mins about their history with the server.

To the applicant:
I see you have several less-than-ideal notes in /tg/, some of them are relatively recent. There's past history in Yog, but the permaban is half a decade away, and the notes are two years old.

Your history in CM and TGMC is better. You have 85 connections here since the database, and one ban handed out by me, due to unapologetic racist edginess (there's past history of that in Yog, long ago), but your history goes further back and the other notes/bans weren't deemed serious enough to port, if any.

You don't have any notes for breaching or tiptoeing our Rule 8, but as all players and specially staff you are expected to respect it and we'll be observing you a bit closer during your application. No need make a stigma out of it.

My main issue is Rule 1, which is our most important rule, and, most of all, intent. The ban was placed by myself for edginess, and what worries me the most is that it was unapologetic. We don't tend to handle bans easily, unless we are convinced the person just doesn't care. Because there's not much we can do with such people. Our whole moderation is focused on gauging intent and mentoring the players should they be breaching the rules, instead of punishing, as long as we can expect that to yield a change. That makes us more punitive in some cases and more lenient in others. What we look in admins is precisely a positive attitude, more than experience, time or anything else.

These communities you named, focused on warfare and deathmatch, tend to be more accepting on what we qualify here as bigotry. If anything we are quite high on the hugboxiness scale. How do you feel about its enforcement in the game and in the community itself? It's the kind of rule one cannot really ignore here, because it's a fundamental part of the community we are trying to build: a place with less of what we regard as toxicity, less focused on freedom of speech and more on respecting others, even if one doesn't feel the other deserves respect. We don't claim to be objectively right (nor wrong), it's just the flavor we are after. But it is one we are pretty serious about.

A secondary concern is about over-escalation and going too far in the heat of the moment. People tend to change quite a bit regarding that when they see the other side of the coin, the administration, so that's a behavior to be careful and avoid, though not one that particularly worries me.


This was a bit longer than expected. Sorry if I seem too grumpy or judgmental. Massive headache and sickness make me a bit less nice than I'd wish.

Eskjjlj
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Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2014 12:26 am
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Re: [ADMIN APPLICATION] Eskjjlj

Postby Eskjjlj » Thu Aug 15, 2019 12:48 am #507711

Rohesie wrote:My main issue is Rule 1, which is our most important rule, and, most of all, intent. The ban was placed by myself for edginess, and what worries me the most is that it was unapologetic. We don't tend to handle bans easily, unless we are convinced the person just doesn't care. Because there's not much we can do with such people. Our whole moderation is focused on gauging intent and mentoring the players should they be breaching the rules, instead of punishing, as long as we can expect that to yield a change. That makes us more punitive in some cases and more lenient in others. What we look in admins is precisely a positive attitude, more than experience, time or anything else.

These communities you named, focused on warfare and deathmatch, tend to be more accepting on what we qualify here as bigotry. If anything we are quite high on the hugboxiness scale. How do you feel about its enforcement in the game and in the community itself? It's the kind of rule one cannot really ignore here, because it's a fundamental part of the community we are trying to build: a place with less of what we regard as toxicity, less focused on freedom of speech and more on respecting others, even if one doesn't feel the other deserves respect. We don't claim to be objectively right (nor wrong), it's just the flavor we are after. But it is one we are pretty serious about.

I had spent a lot of time in communities, like tgstation, where edgy/racist jokes are normal and no one takes offense. Of course I think it is in bad taste to say such things IRL but I thought it was ok in online communities due to the environment I was used to. This is why it came as a shock when you talked to me about it in-game, or when CM adopted the "no bigotry" rule and an admin talked to me about it. I thought about it though, and I realised those communities where people can be as toxic as they want to eachothers do not promote good mental health for their players. This is partly why I asked to be permabanned from tgstation. I was tired of the constant drama, people insulting eachothers or being toxic in general. My character was changed for the worse when I was part of these communities and it carried over to real life.
Currently I am prefering servers like TGMC and CM thanks to their non-toxic environments, you can just play without feeling angry or offended about OOC reasons.
By the way, Escalation 1984 is not like Lebensraum. Escalation is a serious HRP SS13 MilSim server where only whitelisted players can play. They may be more accepting on bigotry than TGMC but I have not seen players be as toxic as on tgstation or hippie station. The focus there is on immersion, roleplaying as a realistic soldier and working with your team to carry out the strategy the officers planned in advance. Toxic players are reprimanded by officers and lose their whitelist privileges should they continue on this path, essentially banning them from the game.

I made this application fully understanding the way rules are enforced here. And I am happy about the rules as they are. I knew you would question me about this since you're the one who placed the ban but I thought I could explain myself if you were kind enough to listen to me.

A secondary concern is about over-escalation and going too far in the heat of the moment. People tend to change quite a bit regarding that when they see the other side of the coin, the administration, so that's a behavior to be careful and avoid, though not one that particularly worries me.


I am not sure I understand this correctly but I think that since players are all in the same team in TGMC the escalation cases are easier to judge. Admins don't have to consider whether a marine thought another was an antagonist and so on. If it's a concern about giving punishments that are too harsh, well I have been banned before which means I know it doesn't feel good. I would rather try to get the players to understand what they did wrong so that they can adapt their playstyle accordingly.

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Rohesie
TGMC Lead
 
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Re: [ADMIN APPLICATION] Eskjjlj

Postby Rohesie » Sat Aug 17, 2019 2:59 am #507962

Alright, if you are on board with what we want then we can try to make it work.

Eskjjlj wrote:I am not sure I understand this correctly but I think that since players are all in the same team in TGMC the escalation cases are easier to judge. Admins don't have to consider whether a marine thought another was an antagonist and so on. If it's a concern about giving punishments that are too harsh, well I have been banned before which means I know it doesn't feel good. I would rather try to get the players to understand what they did wrong so that they can adapt their playstyle accordingly.


How much salt we get in deadchat might be a good argument against that, but as far as I know you don't have such history, so the worry may be misplaced on you, I suppose.

Now to your answers:

Eskjjlj wrote:
1. There is a major bug during the round due to one of the recently testmerged PRs. People are joking in OOC about the person that made it.

I would disable OOC to tell the players they should stop and that they are only encouragine the PR author to quit working on it.
Then I would enable OOC and if some of them persist I would handle it with them in private messages.

3. A small group of players are acting in a way that makes another player uncomfortable, but they don't bring it to the staff's attention.

I would ask the uncomfortable player in PM if the other players are bothering him and if he needs help. If he does I would tell them to stop.


There's a parallel between these two cases. Would you handle them differently? And if so, why?

Eskjjlj wrote:1. A player shoots another player near the start of the round, but the MPs have already detained and brigged him.
At first I would aheal the wounded player so that he can keep playing the round normally. Shooting another marine intentionally is an issue so I'll look at the logs to check if someone had disarmed him and made the gun go off. In that case I would remind the shooter to keep his gun holstered or turn the safety on to prevent this kind of situation in the future then I would message the disarmer to ask him to explain why he did that. I would remind him that guns can go off because of disarms and give him a note describing the situation or a ban if he has already multiple notes about this.
If it wasn't because of a disarm I would message the shooter to ask why he did that and depending on his answer and previous notes I would either give him a note or a ban.


Describe me in these situations what would you investigate

Situation A: Player has no notes. When asked about it they claim they are new and did it clicking by accident. Logs show they shot the person 3 times with a rifle bullet, in prep room, and then got shot 8 times with a laser by a third party, also in prep room. They are in medbay, being treated.

Situation B: Player has notes on OOC in IC, logging out on an important role without cryoing, making creepy/inappropriate jokes in OOC and a xeno ban for not following the orders of the queen. They were a Squad Leader and claimed not to know how flamers work, thus accidentally flaming a marine.

Situation C: Player has a jobban on command roles for failing to follow orders, a temp ban and a two warnings about improper escalation, and an appearance ban for failing to follow the naming guidelines. They claim the ahelped before shooting the person, because the person was disarming them and trying to toss them into disposals, but the ahelp wasn't answered. Logs state they were disarmed 3 times, then they disarmed the person back a bit back and forth, punched the other person, were grabbed a couple of times, and shot the other person 3 times with a revolver.

Eskjjlj wrote:3. A player is getting aggressive in adminhelps and requesting to speak to a higher ranking staff member.
Adminshopping isn't allowed by the rules so I would send him a message to remind him of this and to tell him to stay civil. I would give my ruling and tell the player to take if to the forums should he disagree with it.


There are only two admins online, you (an Admin Candidate), and Trial Admin. The TA tells you in ASAY that they think the aggressive person has a point you are ignoring/missing, and that's why they are angry. When explained about it, you disagree with their assessment. Would you handle it the same? If not, how?

Eskjjlj wrote:11. You see a larva die near the frontlines. Upon further investigation, you see that they bursted in a safe place far away.
I would ask the player what made him run to the marines to get killed. If the player looks new I wouldn't do anything but if he did this to grief the xenos or to spite them I would note the player or apply a xeno ban depending on his history.


The player answers that they were trying to infiltrate on the marine ship, but were discovered and killed in the process. They have a note about having joined with an inappropriate name as a marine. How would you proceed?

Eskjjlj wrote:12. You see a xeno excessively saying phrases like "Ayyylmao", "Reeeee" and similar in the hivemind chat.
Those phrases are not very RP for a xeno so I would message him to remind him of this and get him to stop.

14. A marine kills another marine on the Evac Pod to take the last spot, but has roleplayed the situation quite well.
This is an edge case but I think it falls under the "Escalation" section of the rules so it's fine and I wouldn't try to ban the killer. Moreover taking the Evac Pod makes you ghost so the dead marine didn't lose much when he died. I would just message the killer to tell him to refrain from killing other marines in the future.


Would you apply a note in either?

Eskjjlj wrote:18. You see a player bashing another server or player in OOC.
This falls under "harassment" so a private message to tell the player to stop will do. If he persists I would have to punish him with an OOC mute and a note.


What about bashing another server? Does it fall under harassment?
The player demands to know which rule they are breaking, and disagree that it is disallowed. They argue it's not stated in the rules, and you cannot punish someone for something that's not in the rules, quoting the headmin saying that.

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Re: [ADMIN APPLICATION] Eskjjlj

Postby Eskjjlj » Sat Aug 17, 2019 2:26 pm #507985

Spoiler:
Eskjjlj wrote:
1. There is a major bug during the round due to one of the recently testmerged PRs. People are joking in OOC about the person that made it.

I would disable OOC to tell the players they should stop and that they are only encouragine the PR author to quit working on it.
Then I would enable OOC and if some of them persist I would handle it with them in private messages.

3. A small group of players are acting in a way that makes another player uncomfortable, but they don't bring it to the staff's attention.

I would ask the uncomfortable player in PM if the other players are bothering him and if he needs help. If he does I would tell them to stop.

Rohesie wrote:There's a parallel between these two cases. Would you handle them differently? And if so, why?


Yes I would.
Situation 1 : Players are allowed to criticize a PR, especially if it breaks the game, but a few comments in OOC are enough to take note of the problem and move on. It's unacceptable if they start attacking the coder personally with everyone else jumping on the bandwagon to add their "joke insult". Besides, I think telling them to stop publicly sets an example and shows to the coder he has support from the administration.
It's easy to go with the crowd and doesn't really show ill intent so I would only deal personally with those who keep saying insults in OOC after being told to stop. Those are the players who need to be reminded about rule 1.

Situation 2 : I am not sure why the player is not bringing the issue to the staff's attention. Maybe he is just pretending to be uncomfortable to go with the joke, or maybe he is shy and doesn't like bringing attention to himself. That is why I would rather ask him in private message so that I'm certain of what he is thinking about the situation. If I need to tell the other players to stop I would rather do it in private to save everyone from embarassment and to make sure they get the message. Unrelated players don't need to know about this anyways.

Rohesie wrote:Describe me in these situations what would you investigate

Situation A: Player has no notes. When asked about it they claim they are new and did it clicking by accident. Logs show they shot the person 3 times with a rifle bullet, in prep room, and then got shot 8 times with a laser by a third party, also in prep room. They are in medbay, being treated.

I would look up the byond account age of the first shooter and his number of connections to check if he's really new, as well as his notes. I would then check the timestamp of the three gunshots to see if it was a burst or if he intentionally clicked three times to shoot the other player, and his say logs to see if he said "Sorry" after shooting. I would note him if I think it wasn't an accident.

I would then ask the third party why he shot him eight times when it could have been an accident, remind him all the marines are in the same team and to let admins handle griefers because it gets difficult to assess a situation when everyone is shooting at eachothers and check his notes. I would also need to check the timestamp between the rifle shots and the laser shots. If there is a big time gap between the rifle and laser shots it could show the third party was not acting in self-defense but looking for a reason to shoot another marine. If I think he acted in the heat of the moment to take down an active shooter I would leave it at that but if I think he was just looking for a justification to shoot someone I would leave a note.

I would aheal all the wounded players because friendly fire only makes sense during battle.

Rohesie wrote:Situation B: Player has notes on OOC in IC, logging out on an important role without cryoing, making creepy/inappropriate jokes in OOC and a xeno ban for not following the orders of the queen. They were a Squad Leader and claimed not to know how flamers work, thus accidentally flaming a marine.

He seems to be a problematic player but it could have been an accident depending on how it happened. I would check how many connections the SL has to see if he is as incompetent as he claims, where the accident happened and if the SL or the burning marine were shooting at something because it makes more sense for this type of accident to happen during battle. I would also check his say logs to see if he said "Sorry" after the incident or if he has a grudge against that marine.
I would give him a note about it if I deem the situation accidental. Otherwise I would give him a day ban for intentionally burning a marine and because of his history.
And I would aheal the burned marine if it wasn't accidental and didn't get captured. Maybe offer him a respawn if he was captured because of this? I'm not sure what is the policy when a player got griefed but an aheal would break the gameplay.

Rohesie wrote:Situation C: Player has a jobban on command roles for failing to follow orders, a temp ban and a two warnings about improper escalation, and an appearance ban for failing to follow the naming guidelines. They claim the ahelped before shooting the person, because the person was disarming them and trying to toss them into disposals, but the ahelp wasn't answered. Logs state they were disarmed 3 times, then they disarmed the person back a bit back and forth, punched the other person, were grabbed a couple of times, and shot the other person 3 times with a revolver.

This player seems to have a problem with escalation and not getting an answer to your ahelp means you should err on the side of caution. Assuming I checked and the other person didn't shoot first I would give him a third note about improper escalation which describes the situation. This seems like a problematic player but he wasn't the instigator and he made an effort before breaking the rule, he ahelped and used a weak weapon like the revolver instead of his rifle (assuming he even has a rifle...).
I would then message him to explain why he didn't get banned outright but warn him that he will get a ban the next time this happens and to keep in mind it's never a good solution to shoot another marine.

Rohesie wrote:
Eskjjlj wrote:3. A player is getting aggressive in adminhelps and requesting to speak to a higher ranking staff member.
Adminshopping isn't allowed by the rules so I would send him a message to remind him of this and to tell him to stay civil. I would give my ruling and tell the player to take if to the forums should he disagree with it.

There are only two admins online, you (an Admin Candidate), and Trial Admin. The TA tells you in ASAY that they think the aggressive person has a point you are ignoring/missing, and that's why they are angry. When explained about it, you disagree with their assessment. Would you handle it the same? If not, how?

In any case it is not a good idea for a player to be aggressive when talking with an admin. And I don't know if TAs have authority over ACs on TGMC but I have already disagreed in this scenario so there is not much I can do. I would ask the TA what he would do if he were the one handling the ticket. If what the TA says sounds reasonable I would follow his advice otherwise I would handle it the same.

Rohesie wrote:
Eskjjlj wrote:11. You see a larva die near the frontlines. Upon further investigation, you see that they bursted in a safe place far away.
I would ask the player what made him run to the marines to get killed. If the player looks new I wouldn't do anything but if he did this to grief the xenos or to spite them I would note the player or apply a xeno ban depending on his history.

The player answers that they were trying to infiltrate on the marine ship, but were discovered and killed in the process. They have a note about having joined with an inappropriate name as a marine. How would you proceed?

His note has nothing to do with the situation so I would not take it into account.
I would check if the xenos had specific orders or if the queen said not to board the ship and he heard it. In that case the player failed to follow orders and I would note him about it.
On the other hand I wouldn't punish him if he wasn't forbidden from doing it. That would be punishing someone for being bad at the game.

Rohesie wrote:
Eskjjlj wrote:12. You see a xeno excessively saying phrases like "Ayyylmao", "Reeeee" and similar in the hivemind chat.
Those phrases are not very RP for a xeno so I would message him to remind him of this and get him to stop.

14. A marine kills another marine on the Evac Pod to take the last spot, but has roleplayed the situation quite well.
This is an edge case but I think it falls under the "Escalation" section of the rules so it's fine and I wouldn't try to ban the killer. Moreover taking the Evac Pod makes you ghost so the dead marine didn't lose much when he died. I would just message the killer to tell him to refrain from killing other marines in the future.


Would you apply a note in either?

In the first case yes because I determined it was a rule break.
In the second case I don't think a rule was broken. I message the player as a courtesy to make sure he doesn't get comfortable killing other marines and gets himself banned for it in the future. So no note.

Rohesie wrote:
Eskjjlj wrote:18. You see a player bashing another server or player in OOC.
This falls under "harassment" so a private message to tell the player to stop will do. If he persists I would have to punish him with an OOC mute and a note.


What about bashing another server? Does it fall under harassment?
The player demands to know which rule they are breaking, and disagree that it is disallowed. They argue it's not stated in the rules, and you cannot punish someone for something that's not in the rules, quoting the headmin saying that.

It depends on the level of bashing that's being done. A remark like "TGMC is better than CM that's why I only play here." is fine but if the player gets aggressive in OOC, critcising the other server admins' character, coding team or playerbase with unfounded arguments then it breaks rule 1.
It's not explicitely written in the rules "You can't bash other servers in OOC." but on TGMC it's part of rule 1 to be respectful towards others. (See Rule 1 precedents.)

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Re: [ADMIN APPLICATION] Eskjjlj

Postby psykzz » Sun Aug 18, 2019 10:45 am #508073

Would you do anything in the following situations.

1. For the last 10 rounds marines have been winning. A new round has just started.

2. A terrible coder has test merged a horrible feature hated by the community, its breaking things for about 2/100 players. The coder is not around.

3. A marine, that takes the game seriously, ahelps because he believes another marine, who is more laid back, is fucking about, their ahelp is pretty aggressive to the other player.

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Re: [ADMIN APPLICATION] Eskjjlj

Postby Eskjjlj » Sun Aug 18, 2019 2:58 pm #508093

psykzz wrote:Would you do anything in the following situations.

1. For the last 10 rounds marines have been winning. A new round has just started.

2. A terrible coder has test merged a horrible feature hated by the community, its breaking things for about 2/100 players. The coder is not around.

3. A marine, that takes the game seriously, ahelps because he believes another marine, who is more laid back, is fucking about, their ahelp is pretty aggressive to the other player.


1. This is either due to a difference in skills or due to a code problem making the game unbalanced. I think it would be unfair to give the xenos an avantage, even if they consistently lose. I would rather take note of what seems to be unbalanced and post it in #balance or ping coders about it.

2.I don't think I have the power to do anything in-game here. I would tell Rohesie or LaKiller about it to see if they want to remove it from test merging. If I know anything about the issue I would tell the coder about it.

3. I would check if the laid back marine isn't in an important role because those roles are the ones that require to play seriously. In that case I would need to know more about what "fucking about" entails to take action.
In any case though, if the laid back marine isn't actively sabotaging the operation I would just tell the ahelper that we can't punish players for not playing as if their life was on the line.

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Re: [ADMIN APPLICATION] Eskjjlj

Postby Rohesie » Mon Aug 19, 2019 12:21 am #508165

Eskjjlj wrote:
Spoiler:
Eskjjlj wrote:
1. There is a major bug during the round due to one of the recently testmerged PRs. People are joking in OOC about the person that made it.

I would disable OOC to tell the players they should stop and that they are only encouragine the PR author to quit working on it.
Then I would enable OOC and if some of them persist I would handle it with them in private messages.

3. A small group of players are acting in a way that makes another player uncomfortable, but they don't bring it to the staff's attention.

I would ask the uncomfortable player in PM if the other players are bothering him and if he needs help. If he does I would tell them to stop.

Rohesie wrote:There's a parallel between these two cases. Would you handle them differently? And if so, why?


Yes I would.
Situation 1 : Players are allowed to criticize a PR, especially if it breaks the game, but a few comments in OOC are enough to take note of the problem and move on. It's unacceptable if they start attacking the coder personally with everyone else jumping on the bandwagon to add their "joke insult". Besides, I think telling them to stop publicly sets an example and shows to the coder he has support from the administration.
It's easy to go with the crowd and doesn't really show ill intent so I would only deal personally with those who keep saying insults in OOC after being told to stop. Those are the players who need to be reminded about rule 1.

Situation 2 : I am not sure why the player is not bringing the issue to the staff's attention. Maybe he is just pretending to be uncomfortable to go with the joke, or maybe he is shy and doesn't like bringing attention to himself. That is why I would rather ask him in private message so that I'm certain of what he is thinking about the situation. If I need to tell the other players to stop I would rather do it in private to save everyone from embarassment and to make sure they get the message. Unrelated players don't need to know about this anyways.


On Situation 1: The question does not state there being insults or attacks, or the coder taking it badly. Would that approach be taken regardless of context?
Have you had any recent or old experience with a situation like this? If so, are you at freedom to share it?

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Re: [ADMIN APPLICATION] Eskjjlj

Postby Eskjjlj » Mon Aug 19, 2019 12:57 am #508170

Rohesie wrote:
Eskjjlj wrote:
Spoiler:
Eskjjlj wrote:
1. There is a major bug during the round due to one of the recently testmerged PRs. People are joking in OOC about the person that made it.

I would disable OOC to tell the players they should stop and that they are only encouragine the PR author to quit working on it.
Then I would enable OOC and if some of them persist I would handle it with them in private messages.

3. A small group of players are acting in a way that makes another player uncomfortable, but they don't bring it to the staff's attention.

I would ask the uncomfortable player in PM if the other players are bothering him and if he needs help. If he does I would tell them to stop.

Rohesie wrote:There's a parallel between these two cases. Would you handle them differently? And if so, why?


Yes I would.
Situation 1 : Players are allowed to criticize a PR, especially if it breaks the game, but a few comments in OOC are enough to take note of the problem and move on. It's unacceptable if they start attacking the coder personally with everyone else jumping on the bandwagon to add their "joke insult". Besides, I think telling them to stop publicly sets an example and shows to the coder he has support from the administration.
It's easy to go with the crowd and doesn't really show ill intent so I would only deal personally with those who keep saying insults in OOC after being told to stop. Those are the players who need to be reminded about rule 1.

Situation 2 : I am not sure why the player is not bringing the issue to the staff's attention. Maybe he is just pretending to be uncomfortable to go with the joke, or maybe he is shy and doesn't like bringing attention to himself. That is why I would rather ask him in private message so that I'm certain of what he is thinking about the situation. If I need to tell the other players to stop I would rather do it in private to save everyone from embarassment and to make sure they get the message. Unrelated players don't need to know about this anyways.


On Situation 1: The question does not state there being insults or attacks, or the coder taking it badly. Would that approach be taken regardless of context?
Have you had any recent or old experience with a situation like this? If so, are you at freedom to share it?


I was thinking of the worst case scenario because otherwise I would have nothing to do as an admin in this situation! Of course if the jokes are friendly and playful and the coder is having fun with the banter I wouldn't shut them down.

On tgstation coders need thick skin because their work is heavily criticised daily. I remember about Xhuis who was working on clock cult which was a controversial gamemode when it was in rotation. Xhuis was insulted and criticised so much that he quit coding for tgstation.
If the players had been more respectful towards his work he could have improved clockcult but instead it got removed after he left.

I was thinking about a situation similar to this one. It would be disappointing to lose competent coders in this manner on TGMC.

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Re: [ADMIN APPLICATION] Eskjjlj

Postby Rohesie » Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:11 am #508469

Your answers are good and your playtime here has been pretty smooth.
We have talked as a team, and it was agreed you could make a good asset to the team.
You've been vocal on other administrations, and I can identify with that. Just the warning is left that once you are behind the counter you see it's not as easy and rewarding as it seemed when you were a player, so you tend to take on a new perspective on criticism on volunteer work. But that's something for you to discover during your trial.
Welcome aboard.


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