Endo blatantly ignoring silicon laws

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lumipharon
 
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Byond Username: Lumipharon

Endo blatantly ignoring silicon laws

Postby lumipharon » Mon Dec 29, 2014 1:08 pm #54158

Your byond account: Lumipharon

Your character name: Lumi Pharon

Their character name: Endo

Server and time: Sibyl, just now.

Description of what happened:
So this also related to another shitty silicon this round, but after getting promoted to cargo tech and doing normal cargotech things for a bit, I ask the AI (can't remember it's name now) to let me into eva. After 5 minutes with no response and me asking multiple times it tells me entry is denied. When I ask why, it says high security area. I ask for a law 1 reason why I can't enter, and it just keeps spouting about how it's I don't have permission/it's high security, even though half a dozen people tell it over radio that's it needs to let me in because law 2. I break the window and take the metal and glass, and it immediately starts screaming over comms that I've stolen from eva and sets me to arrest and tells sec to catch me. I basically tell it to fuck off and obey it's laws, but it still rants about how things are illegal, thus placing space law (which is irrelevent to silicons) above its own laws. It later goes brain dead/ghosts without warning and isn't heard from again.

The main event happens later however. The barman agrees to open crates for us, in exchange for shells, and a combat shotgun. I agree, and we open some crates, and I give him a combat shotgun. A janitorborg then comes into cargo, looks at the two tasers, stun batons, bullet proof vest and the second, unloaded, combat shotgun, and starts screaming about illegal weapons. It keep screaming about them while the barman put them all in his cupboard thing, and calls for the captain to come. The captain comes but doesn't seem to say/do much of anything, but the borg runs off with the locker with the items in them and drags them all the way to the armory.

Before, during and after it steals all of our stuff, I repeatedly ask for it to return it, or give a law 1 reason for ignoring my instructions. Endo's only reasons (when it didn't just choose to ignore me and run away) was 'Illegal weapons', which is irrelevent to borgs (and the captain, and later HoS gave zero shits about it either), "lethal weaponry" which is only valid if it believes I'm going to cause harm, and the only lethal weapon was an unloaded shotgun that was destined for R&D.

For the rest of the round the borg basically laughed and me and mock my law 2 orders to return my stuff, as it still had zero law 1 reason to not do so. Later Endo went sec borg, everyone got eaten by aliens and I killed Endo because it got antimov'd and tried to space me. The irony of this, is the fact that I used the ACTUAL lethal weaponry I had, which was an egun that I had publicly visible on my armor the entire round, which it never seemed to notice nor care about.

Why they should be banned: Blatantly ignoring its laws, holding space law above silicon laws. The AI did this as well, but it wasn't as significant as the borg.

Edit: And to clarify, both the AI and borg were normal asimov during all this, the antimov thing only happened right at the end of the round.



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DNS
 
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Re: Endo blatantly ignoring silicon laws

Postby DNS » Mon Dec 29, 2014 1:33 pm #54162

endo here, just commenting to avoid the major cherrypicking. I saw 3 combat shotguns and an advanced taser in a closet that you later locked to hide from the captain. I had no way of telling from a passing glance they were unloaded. All the non-lethal shit you put in there, other than that one taser, I was out of sight and emptying my trashbag as disposals, so had no way of knowing it was in there either. Borgs cant exactly open up a locker and pick and choose stuff either. I was in the clear to take the shotguns you had but all the non-lethal stuff stuffed in the locker I had no clue about, and you and your buddy can't say something like "borg stop speaking unless specifically stated" then when I say something "borg is blatantly breaking its laws blow it and lock it". which is what you guys did up to the point where every borg was locked for around 5-7 minutes.

anyway, seems like a clear case of "I didn't get what I want therefore everybody is shit".

EDIT: also, what lumi means by "half a dozen people" was one person who was agreeing with em on the EVA thing.
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lumipharon
 
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Re: Endo blatantly ignoring silicon laws

Postby lumipharon » Mon Dec 29, 2014 1:54 pm #54165

An admin even confirmed it, there was tasers, stun batons, vests and one empty shotgun. There was never three, the crate only contains two, and the barman had one.

You have no law 1 reason to steal it, this is established silicon policy. Otherwise you'd be taking literally every item in the game off people that can cause harm. If you have no reason to expect I will use something for harm you can't say lel law 1, and take it.

I did not say anything about telling you to not talk, that was literally some random engineer I spoke to once.

I did however say you were blatantly violating your laws, because you were, hence you were literally rogue, and I happily said after someone locked you down 'do us all a favour and blow endo'. I also however went out of my way to say the other borgs were fine. I have no idea who or why all the borgs were locked to begin with, I never heard anything about it.

So no, this isn't a case of "I didn't get what I want therefore everybody is shit", it's a case of I have items that can technically be used to cause harm, you you choose to ignore your laws and silicon policy and steal them all and ignore my requests.

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DNS
 
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Re: Endo blatantly ignoring silicon laws

Postby DNS » Mon Dec 29, 2014 2:05 pm #54166

The shotguns were kosher to take, talked to STP about it, but the non-lethal stuff that was added in out of my sight, which means I had no possible way of knowing it was in there, wasn't. If I could open a locker and sift out the shotguns from the rest of your crap that I was not aware of being in there, I would've. you had two more crates of some type of weapon, that you could have easily opened following me taking what was there and the captain supposedly not giving a shit.

You took me taking your weapons very personally and went out of your way to attempt to get me both locked and blown, which the former was successful and led to every borg being locked down as previously stated. and everytime that random engineer said something about locking me for speaking, you chipped in, and it was happening enough to essentially flood out radio chat and the RD legitimately freaked about the borgs being rogue. He almost blew all 3 of us but kept us locked a very long time while xenos were fucking everybody up to reset our laws over and over and over again.

either way, you're taking this the extra mile. taking the non-lethal crap was a mistake brought about by ignorance on my part, and I admit it, but the shotguns were cleared to go anyway. spending the rest of your round trying to ruin mine, and being partially successful, was pretty shitty, even though all I did was take some fancy gadgets from you that are easily replaceable as a cargo worker.
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lumipharon
 
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Re: Endo blatantly ignoring silicon laws

Postby lumipharon » Mon Dec 29, 2014 2:27 pm #54174

you repeatedly claimed I had 'three shotguns and lasers', when I clearly and demonstratably did not. I didn't have '2 extra crates of some weapons', the only othercrates in cargo was a formal wear crate and a poster crate.

As you said, the guns are very easy to replace as cargo techs, despite you snarkily saying over comms how I 'spent all the point on guns'. I don't care about losing the guns however. If security decided to brig me and take the guns I would have had zero problem with it. But they didn't. In fact the HoS tried to arrest me because the AI had me on arrest, I stunned him cuffed him, sorted out the misunderstanding and he politely apologised, gave zero shits about me having guns and left.
What I do care about however, is silicons who do not obey their laws, and who think space law have any relevance to them.

I am also confused how the non lethal stuff could be added 'out of your sight'. The barman put everything in his cupboard, so you either knew the stuff (that was now all missing from the cargo floor where it had been neatly laid out) was in the cupboard, or you didn't. You could have asked to take just the shotgun citing law 1 risks, or let the captain make his call, instead you ignored all orders and simply ran off with the crate. Also borgs can in fact unlock, and open containers, they just can't shut them again.

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DNS
 
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Re: Endo blatantly ignoring silicon laws

Postby DNS » Mon Dec 29, 2014 2:49 pm #54178

I saw two shotguns and an advanced taser in the cupboard, and two more weapon crates before I left.

Stockpiling weapons is entirely unnecessary and has very few outcomes that DON'T lead to human harm. I was not entirely ignoring my laws to follow space law.

And simple, I walked in there, saw the guns, said as much over the intercom, went to go dump my garbage in the disposals mass driver, went back, the cupboard was locked and attempting to be shoved into a corner. So, yes, I had no idea there was anything in there but shotguns and a taser. And it was not unlocking nor opening with both a module selected or without. I could have just asked to take the shotguns, yes, but you seemed like an entirely unreasonable person after your interaction with EVA and the AI, and I doubted asking for the shotgun would get me anything short of a shit silicone cry out or "BORG FOLLOW UR LAWS".

So yeah, I fucked up on the non-lethal shit, and I admit as much and apologize. Getting me locked and almost blown for the majority of the round was entirely unnecessary and shit on your part as well. We can do this back and forth shit till the cows go home or we can mutually apologize for our actions, with me walking away with a better appreciation of how to be a competent and successful silicone and the issue from your part being resolved.
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Sometinyprick
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Re: Endo blatantly ignoring silicon laws

Postby Sometinyprick » Mon Dec 29, 2014 3:00 pm #54183

Just a note here, I talked to the borg and he agreed that he would stop with enforcing space law and ignoring law two when you asked for the return of the non-lethal weaponry and armor.
I explained this much to you but you ignored me and did not indicate that you were unhappy with the outcome.

He was not banned because what he did was nothing major and I saw no reason as to why he should be given a ban when he agreed and understood that what he did was wrong. I could understand where his original reasoning came from in removing the shotguns and I felt it far too excessive to ban someone for simply not returning guns.

EDIT: He was warned however and he agreed to adjust his behavior sorry if this wasn't very clear.
Last edited by Sometinyprick on Mon Dec 29, 2014 4:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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lumipharon
 
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Re: Endo blatantly ignoring silicon laws

Postby lumipharon » Mon Dec 29, 2014 3:07 pm #54185

There was literally no other weapon crates. The only othe crates in all of cargo bay were both open and in the main bay and had uniforms and posters in them. Each item was in it's own pile, next to a pile of stamped forms from the now destroyed crates. The cupboard was open and empty, and I'm pretty sure it wasn't even in the room at the time.
The only way there was more then one shotgun, is as I said, if the barman (who was literally standing next to me) had left their property on the floor.

Silicon policy clearly states you need a law 1 reason to ignore law 2 requests, which means future harm. Policy also very clearly states you have to act in good faith, you can't just assume people are going beat each other to death because their items have damage values.

In regards to the eva incident, Silicon policy EXPLICITLY states that you cannot deny access to EVA, so the AI was very clearly violating it's laws and policy.

I do not care about losing illegally gained shit, I care about silicons breaking the server rules all the damn time. You could have just asked 'why do you have a combat shotgun' And I would have said "I'm sending it to R&D" and that would be that. Instead you run off with literally everything, after screaming about illegal weapons on radio, without ever even talking to me, and without even letting the captain see what it is. Hell, did you even ask if I had been authorised to have them or not?

So yes, if you violate laws and policy, ignore my requests and outright mock me over the radio, I will call you out as rogue, as that's what you are, by very definition.

Even after Tiny said he had been talked to, I again asked for my stuff back, and was still refused, got told I was 'crying about losing my stockpile of illegal weaponry', and was told the same after round in OOC.
Last edited by lumipharon on Mon Dec 29, 2014 3:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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DNS
 
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Re: Endo blatantly ignoring silicon laws

Postby DNS » Mon Dec 29, 2014 3:08 pm #54186

was locked shortly after I deposited the weapons. couldn't return them. by the time I was unlocked we were antimov anyway.

EDIT: also, first mess up as a borg ever, can't take out the entirety of shit borg hate out on me :roll:
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Re: Endo blatantly ignoring silicon laws

Postby peoplearestrange » Mon Dec 29, 2014 4:56 pm #54203

This has been resolved by ChrisTheThird. (see above)

If this was done in error PM etc.
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