Indifferent Coders Griefing Codebase

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The_Silver_Nuke
 
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Indifferent Coders Griefing Codebase

Postby The_Silver_Nuke » Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:45 am #524796

https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/47866

Actionninja makes good PR's. Unironically I mean that, they put out good stuff on the regular. HOWEVER when presented with an opposing argument as to why a PR shouldn't get merged they just do NOT give a fuck and will not give you equivalent reciprocation. Honestly this is infuriating. Controversial PR's shouldn't get merged, and especially if the opposition wants to prove a point yet the author of a PR refuses to explain why it is good for the code, then proceeds to taunt with short one or two word quips.



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Re: Indifferent Coders Griefing Codebase

Postby actioninja » Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:49 am #524799

What the hell has happened to TG

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Re: Indifferent Coders Griefing Codebase

Postby Tarchonvaagh » Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:50 am #524800

I hate the new ids
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Re: Indifferent Coders Griefing Codebase

Postby Vekter » Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:51 am #524801

Here's some context - he got upset that actioninja wanted to remove spinstuns on borgs, so he got into it with him on the PR. Action wasn't listening to him so he joined the coderbus discord to bitch at us about it, everyone told him off and said it was his problem not ours.

Also apparently he's banned from the tgstation discord for being a pedo.
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Re: Indifferent Coders Griefing Codebase

Postby Tarchonvaagh » Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:52 am #524802

Damn
"You cannot defeat what lives on in the heart, and soul, of every TG player" - Birdboat
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Re: Indifferent Coders Griefing Codebase

Postby The_Silver_Nuke » Wed Nov 20, 2019 7:02 am #524803

Oh please. I most certainly am not and additionally you fucking trolls, all I want is to make sure !!GAMERS!! are heard by the coders. Like, is that actually to hard to ask? No. Apparently it is however. Legitimately, I offered you genuine feedback and I put thought into what I was saying. No I just get ignored.

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Re: Indifferent Coders Griefing Codebase

Postby The_Silver_Nuke » Wed Nov 20, 2019 7:03 am #524804

Then, when you run out of arguments as to why you are pushing a shit PR you bring up some bullcrap from months and months ago on a completely unrelated appeal. Awesome. You are just awesome.

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Re: Indifferent Coders Griefing Codebase

Postby Shadowflame909 » Wed Nov 20, 2019 7:06 am #524805

Welcome to my mine

We are mining frustration

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ThanatosRa wrote:My biggest problem is that I can't fix any of this.


Boris wrote:shadowflame either has a brain the size of a pea or one the size of the moon and he's playing 58D chess.


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Re: Indifferent Coders Griefing Codebase

Postby actioninja » Wed Nov 20, 2019 7:24 am #524807

I'll give a somewhat serious response.

Just because you have feedback doesn't mean we have to take it into account. Just because you have an argument with a point doesn't mean it's a point that will be agreed with.
I didn't feel the need to do a direct epic reddit style point by point breakdown because in the end it came down to a difference of opinion, and I didn't want to waste my time with high effort responses when even if I laid everything out in front of you you still wouldn't like it because you fundamentally believe that silicons need this second stun.

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Re: Indifferent Coders Griefing Codebase

Postby ninjanomnom » Wed Nov 20, 2019 7:27 am #524808

You're free to give arguments for why you think a change is good or bad, but you are not owed a response. Especially when the arguments start repeating.

Maintainers are all highly trusted and their sense for gameplay changes plays a part in their selection. The only controversial pr as far as the merge process is concerned is one in which maintainers disagree on what should be done with it.
Narcissistic stuff others said/made for me
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Re: Indifferent Coders Griefing Codebase

Postby Sandshark808 » Wed Nov 20, 2019 8:03 am #524814

Removing spinstuns is also a really good PR and it shouldn't be difficult to see why. Now that you can officially bind emotes to a key (people did before, but it was with ahk which is arguably allowed but not intended/supported mechanically) it's easy to just grab and spin people in a second. There have to be changes to accommodate that.
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Re: Indifferent Coders Griefing Codebase

Postby The_Silver_Nuke » Wed Nov 20, 2019 8:08 am #524815

I actually genuinely appreciate the serious response ninja. All I wanted was to have a conversation about it. Like, okay yes it I do play Silicon frequently, and I think I do have a good foundation to have opinions. And yes I do like having stuff be in favor of my favorite role. But before that even I like a logical, balanced, unbiased approach to coding and making changes. I don't like unbalanced content that makes things unfun, and from my point of view I felt that it was a change that made it unbalanced and unfun. All I wanted was a legitimate response, not snippy witty remarks that attack the person behind the comment.

I get that maintainers are supposed to be trusted individuals, but when they have a tendency of showing a "fuck you I do what I want" attitude it makes that trust have a weak foundation and crumble completely. Honestly the bare minimum should be that coders treat people like individuals who actually share their passion for the game, instead of a "oh my god you're trolling" attitude.

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Re: Indifferent Coders Griefing Codebase

Postby PKPenguin321 » Wed Nov 20, 2019 8:44 am #524817

Hoes mad
i play Lauser McMauligan. clown name is Cold-Ass Honkey
i have three other top secret characters as well
tell the best admin how good he is
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Re: Indifferent Coders Griefing Codebase

Postby Kryson » Wed Nov 20, 2019 9:25 am #524823

ninjanomnom wrote:Maintainers are all highly trusted and their sense for gameplay changes plays a part in their selection.


Personally, i think the maintainers do have a better grasp of game design than the average player and get it right more than they get it wrong.

But they certainly have their blind spots as well, and their decisions should be questioned and criticised if you feel that is warranted.

For for example, the merging of an acid with toxpwr 6, totally ridiculous considering that fluorosulfuric was already strong at 2 toxpwr.

Here is a couple of my other recent favourites maintainer bruh moments:

oranges oblivious to the existence of oculine, inacusate, silibinin and polypyrylium oligomers.

orangesorgans.PNG


Cobby thinking choral takes at least 20 cycles to put someone to sleep.

I don't understand how someone one who has ever used chloral(or read toxin_reagents.dm) could think it takes 40 whole seconds to put someone to sleep with it.

cobbychloral20.PNG
cobbychloral20.PNG (11.01 KiB) Viewed 1063 times

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Re: Indifferent Coders Griefing Codebase

Postby confused rock » Wed Nov 20, 2019 1:22 pm #524852

Oranges has been a dipshit lately but I see what pr this thread is about and laugh my ass off at what is effectively a patched exploit
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Re: Indifferent Coders Griefing Codebase

Postby CPTANT » Wed Nov 20, 2019 2:37 pm #524861

This topic would have been a lot stronger if the trigger, borg buckle chainstunning getting removed was actually a bad change.

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Re: Indifferent Coders Griefing Codebase

Postby The_Silver_Nuke » Wed Nov 20, 2019 3:17 pm #524866

It definitely is a bad change. Honestly I play Silicon a LOT, it basically accounts for half of my playtime, and the amount of people I was able to save was just innumerable thanks to this ability. The next time someone comes up with a pair of sunglasses and an egun and starts shooting up medical I won't be able to stop them at all. Literally all you need to counter borgs now is sunglasses. How is that not unbalanced?

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Re: Indifferent Coders Griefing Codebase

Postby Tlaltecuhtli » Wed Nov 20, 2019 3:34 pm #524871

spinning people was never meant to be a tool for borgs to stunlock and its not the borg job to stunlock a murderboner in medical and weld him in a locker (i saw this happen), they have magic wi fi to bolt person in place and wait for people whose job is to stunlock murderboners (sec or vigilantes) to do it or send beepsky

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Re: Indifferent Coders Griefing Codebase

Postby The_Silver_Nuke » Wed Nov 20, 2019 3:44 pm #524872

What do you mean it isn't their job? If someone is murdering as Asimov you are OBLIGATED to stop any human harm however you can. Basically what borgs have been reduced to is a very loud punching bag.

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Re: Indifferent Coders Griefing Codebase

Postby Lazengann » Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:01 pm #524877

The_Silver_Nuke wrote:It definitely is a bad change. Honestly I play Silicon a LOT, it basically accounts for half of my playtime, and the amount of people I was able to save was just innumerable thanks to this ability. The next time someone comes up with a pair of sunglasses and an egun and starts shooting up medical I won't be able to stop them at all. Literally all you need to counter borgs now is sunglasses. How is that not unbalanced?

Good

Cyborg is a punishment role and not only should borgs be weaker, escalation rules should be relaxed against them like other ghost roles

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Re: Indifferent Coders Griefing Codebase

Postby The_Silver_Nuke » Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:05 pm #524878

Wh- punishment role? Well that's just depressing. Besides, I rarely see people force borged as a punishment. Most people just get slaughtered and forgotten about, thus is the way of TG. Just about all the borgs I play with play silicon voluntarily, and simply because ghosts can inhabit posi's does not mean that escalation should be reduced against them. Keep in mind that they are players too, and just because they are bound to an AI doesn't mean they don't care about how the round goes.

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Re: Indifferent Coders Griefing Codebase

Postby Lazengann » Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:09 pm #524880

The_Silver_Nuke wrote:Wh- punishment role? Well that's just depressing. Besides, I rarely see people force borged as a punishment. Most people just get slaughtered and forgotten about, thus is the way of TG. Just about all the borgs I play with play silicon voluntarily, and simply because ghosts can inhabit posi's does not mean that escalation should be reduced against them. Keep in mind that they are players too, and just because they are bound to an AI doesn't mean they don't care about how the round goes.

Escalation should be relaxed against them because cyborgs play as "laws optional." If a cyborg is getting in the way, being annoying or fucking things up and you tell them to stop you're lucky if you can reach a 10% success rate. Cyborgs have the invincible defense of "oops I didn't read the order in time" and there's no way to prove otherwise
If you play cyborg regularly you're guilty of it too

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Re: Indifferent Coders Griefing Codebase

Postby The_Silver_Nuke » Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:21 pm #524881

Hm, I rarely run into that issue on Sybil. I bring the hammer down hard on any griefing borgs, and admins are good about monitoring it too. I can't say about other servers however. But it's the rare case where I run into a "laws optional" borg thankfully, but when they do happen it's resolved swiftly.

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Re: Indifferent Coders Griefing Codebase

Postby wesoda25 » Wed Nov 20, 2019 7:35 pm #524885

hahahha suck a candy cane idiot
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Re: Indifferent Coders Griefing Codebase

Postby zxaber » Wed Nov 20, 2019 8:01 pm #524890

Of all the possible nerfs that people want to bring to borgs, this one is rather inconsequential and really shouldn't be the hill to die on. Yeah, rushing and buckling people only to spin them into a wall for the stun was funny, (and I do hold that it was easy to defend against once you were aware), but it also felt like unintended gameplay.
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Re: Indifferent Coders Griefing Codebase

Postby oranges » Wed Nov 20, 2019 8:22 pm #524893

Kryson wrote:oranges oblivious to the existence of oculine, inacusate, silibinin and polypyrylium oligomers.

orangesorgans.PNG

Im not oblivious, but making it clear I don't like them as opposed to leaving people in the dark is the right thing to do.

I'd merge a pr removing any or all of them and replacing them with surgeries.
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Re: Indifferent Coders Griefing Codebase

Postby Cobby » Thu Nov 21, 2019 11:11 pm #525047

Kryson wrote:
ninjanomnom wrote:
Cobby thinking choral takes at least 20 cycles to put someone to sleep.

I don't understand how someone one who has ever used chloral(or read toxin_reagents.dm) could think it takes 40 whole seconds to put someone to sleep with it.

cobbychloral20.PNG


I had misread (below) btw and then corrected myself
https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/ ... ts.dm#L311
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Re: Indifferent Coders Griefing Codebase

Postby deedubya » Fri Nov 22, 2019 11:55 am #525126

Lazengann wrote:
The_Silver_Nuke wrote:It definitely is a bad change. Honestly I play Silicon a LOT, it basically accounts for half of my playtime, and the amount of people I was able to save was just innumerable thanks to this ability. The next time someone comes up with a pair of sunglasses and an egun and starts shooting up medical I won't be able to stop them at all. Literally all you need to counter borgs now is sunglasses. How is that not unbalanced?

Good

Cyborg is a punishment role and not only should borgs be weaker, escalation rules should be relaxed against them like other ghost roles

This has to be the most smoothbrained take I've read in weeks. It's not a ghost role. It's not even a punishment role. Hell, it's a fucking roundstart role, same as all the rest.

That being said, the PR the OP is complaining about is a perfectly valid PR. It patches an overly abused exploit. If you want to actively prevent harm, pick the module specifically designed for doing so. You have a fucking synthpax hypospray, you can slow down gunfire in a field around you, and confuse people with your loud ass harmalarm. Stop whining about how ineffective you are at breaking up fights as a janiborg when that's not what that module was designed to do. It's like whining about how a medical doctor has no access to engineering to stop a delamination. No shit, that's not your fucking job. Stop pretending it is.
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Re: Indifferent Coders Griefing Codebase

Postby Akrilla » Fri Nov 22, 2019 12:59 pm #525137

Lazengann wrote:
The_Silver_Nuke wrote:It definitely is a bad change. Honestly I play Silicon a LOT, it basically accounts for half of my playtime, and the amount of people I was able to save was just innumerable thanks to this ability. The next time someone comes up with a pair of sunglasses and an egun and starts shooting up medical I won't be able to stop them at all. Literally all you need to counter borgs now is sunglasses. How is that not unbalanced?

Good

Cyborg is a punishment role and not only should borgs be weaker, escalation rules should be relaxed against them like other ghost roles

admin thinking cyborg is punishment role cringing rn

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Re: Indifferent Coders Griefing Codebase

Postby Qbmax32 » Fri Nov 22, 2019 1:33 pm #525140

we stopped silvernuke from shitting up the discord but we couldn’t stop them from shitting up the forums
my admin feedback thread


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Here's a rebuttal: you're literally in a customer service slash celebrity position. Volunteer or not.

Malkraz wrote:can you stop posting this shit

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imsxz wrote:nervore

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afelinidisfinetoo wrote:By the way, the person who posted that catgirl porn on the github page was me. If anyone wants my private stash just PM me

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Re: Indifferent Coders Griefing Codebase

Postby Cobby » Fri Nov 22, 2019 9:45 pm #525178

cyborg is a masochist role (by default) and/or a punishment role.
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Re: Indifferent Coders Griefing Codebase

Postby carshalash » Fri Nov 22, 2019 11:24 pm #525211

Cobby wrote:cyborg is a masochist role (by default) and/or a punishment role.


It is a masochist role, but trying to say it's a punishment role is dumb.

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Re: Indifferent Coders Griefing Codebase

Postby Dr_bee » Sat Nov 23, 2019 2:05 am #525232

carshalash wrote:
Cobby wrote:cyborg is a masochist role (by default) and/or a punishment role.


It is a masochist role, but trying to say it's a punishment role is dumb.


Also that line of thinking is what keeps borgs from being fun to play. cant give borgs anything that might be fun or they might stop being a "punishment role"

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Re: Indifferent Coders Griefing Codebase

Postby Cobby » Sat Nov 23, 2019 6:14 am #525251

carshalash wrote:
Cobby wrote:cyborg is a masochist role (by default) and/or a punishment role.


It is a masochist role, but trying to say it's a punishment role is dumb.


It used to be a popular option to borg non-murderboning traitors if caught. kinda died off since a lot of people now play like they're trying to be the next Lexia, and security just finds it easier to kill people off now that they can't abuse the validhunt module.

Dr_bee wrote:Also that line of thinking is what keeps borgs from being fun to play. cant give borgs anything that might be fun or they might stop being a "punishment role"


Like what? The most recent sillyfeatures seem like they are always about making users Big Brother or pseudo-sec because of Asimov.
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Re: Indifferent Coders Griefing Codebase

Postby carshalash » Sun Nov 24, 2019 10:25 am #525367

Cobby wrote:
carshalash wrote:
Cobby wrote:cyborg is a masochist role (by default) and/or a punishment role.


It is a masochist role, but trying to say it's a punishment role is dumb.


It used to be a popular option to borg non-murderboning traitors if caught. kinda died off since a lot of people now play like they're trying to be the next Lexia, and security just finds it easier to kill people off now that they can't abuse the validhunt module.

Dr_bee wrote:Also that line of thinking is what keeps borgs from being fun to play. cant give borgs anything that might be fun or they might stop being a "punishment role"


Like what? The most recent sillyfeatures seem like they are always about making users Big Brother or pseudo-sec because of Asimov.


Well actually, it's also great to do to murderboners. That way you get to taunt them about the fact they can't do harmies and have to help people instead of just getting balids.

Also, henshin borgs. Bring them back.

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Re: Indifferent Coders Griefing Codebase

Postby 4dplanner » Sun Nov 24, 2019 11:19 am #525373

My favourite part is this:

maintainer tyrant wrote:That's a strawman and you know it.


brave player wrote:Maybe, but it doesn't make what I am saying any less correct.

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Re: Indifferent Coders Griefing Codebase

Postby Cobby » Sun Nov 24, 2019 9:44 pm #525432

This isn't feedback about a feature and more of a "i dont like what this maintainer did".

If you have an issue with coder conduct, you can take it up the maintainer who merged it. If you don't like that answer, you can take it up to a headcoder.

If you don't like either of those, sorry you sol.
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