How to not be shit as AI

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Jack7D1
 
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How to not be shit as AI

Postby Jack7D1 » Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:50 pm #527295

Recently played a round where I has AI as low on lowpop but got assigned. Gotta say it was quite stressful since all I had to focus on was the murders that command and security were committing. I bolted in the lone security officer to prevent further human harm. Honestly I don't really like doing that but I appreciate taking a 'True Neutral' approach to AI. This eventually lead to station wide destruction of cameras and a suicide law being entered since I was being shit. I do not disagree. What could I have done better? How is the AI supposed to handle security unceremoniously lasering a syndie to death? Should I just set AI to never and forget it?

Round ID was 129089 On bagil in case any admins want to see logs.



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skoglol
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Re: How to not be shit as AI

Postby skoglol » Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:59 pm #527299

bagil

Well there's your problem

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wesoda25
 
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Re: How to not be shit as AI

Postby wesoda25 » Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:02 pm #527302

terry is literally bagil lite and sybil isn’t as good anymore so bagil isn’t bad, or much different in comparison
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Re: How to not be shit as AI

Postby nianjiilical » Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:21 pm #527324

the trick to being a good ai is to find the balance between actually upholding your laws and not making the game unfun for people

its incredibly easy for an ai to simply patrol the entire station, immediately call out every antag they see, bolt down doors and ruin any semblance of stealth, and imo the best ais are the ones that play less as overprotective station guardians and more as """helpful""" assistants that pay more attention to roleplaying and livening up the station than the guy emagging into engineering

unless its something massively dangerous like a cult or wizard i dont think people generally mind if the ai looks the other way when they catch a traitor doing non-harmful things or at least waits a bit before announcing it, and even if they are actively killing something its more fun for everybody involved for the ai to say "harm detected in x" instead of "oh god johnson is eswording the captain to death right now bolting down all doors"

basically, instead of playing to protect all humans, play a slightly dysfunctional ai that is required to help people, but don't be scared to do things that technically break your laws if nobody will ever know the difference, as long as its not actually hurting anybody or impacting the round

t. sybil player


edit: also my personal stance on harm is that self inflicted harm or harm that comes from threats humans actively and knowingly walk into isnt something you're obligated to prevent. if i tell somebody 'this room is on fire' and they say 'i dont care open up' then law 2, it opens up. technically this breaks law 1 but if you play ai to prevent all potential harm then you end up not letting anybody do anything, not letting security actually fight threats, and also youd have to shut down rage cages and nobody likes an ai that shuts down rage cages

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Re: How to not be shit as AI

Postby Jack7D1 » Thu Dec 05, 2019 2:02 am #527350

nianjiilical wrote:the trick to being a good ai is to find the balance between actually upholding your laws and not making the game unfun for people

its incredibly easy for an ai to simply patrol the entire station, immediately call out every antag they see, bolt down doors and ruin any semblance of stealth, and imo the best ais are the ones that play less as overprotective station guardians and more as """helpful""" assistants that pay more attention to roleplaying and livening up the station than the guy emagging into engineering

unless its something massively dangerous like a cult or wizard i dont think people generally mind if the ai looks the other way when they catch a traitor doing non-harmful things or at least waits a bit before announcing it, and even if they are actively killing something its more fun for everybody involved for the ai to say "harm detected in x" instead of "oh god johnson is eswording the captain to death right now bolting down all doors"

basically, instead of playing to protect all humans, play a slightly dysfunctional ai that is required to help people, but don't be scared to do things that technically break your laws if nobody will ever know the difference, as long as its not actually hurting anybody or impacting the round

t. sybil player


edit: also my personal stance on harm is that self inflicted harm or harm that comes from threats humans actively and knowingly walk into isnt something you're obligated to prevent. if i tell somebody 'this room is on fire' and they say 'i dont care open up' then law 2, it opens up. technically this breaks law 1 but if you play ai to prevent all potential harm then you end up not letting anybody do anything, not letting security actually fight threats, and also youd have to shut down rage cages and nobody likes an ai that shuts down rage cages


Thanks a lot! I guess that makes sense, I guess you cant be true neutral is you're constantly babysitting the crew like that.
Also yes Rage Cages are boss.

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carshalash
 
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Re: How to not be shit as AI

Postby carshalash » Thu Dec 05, 2019 2:56 am #527374

Communication is key to being good at AI, as well as always having low expectations of the crew.

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Re: How to not be shit as AI

Postby cacogen » Thu Dec 05, 2019 4:22 pm #527481

You didn't do anything wrong. The AI and cyborgs will inevitably come into conflict with the crew when they're Asimov. The conflict is intentional. It's not a bad thing. It's part of roleplay. It adds tension and stakes to the game.

Also, if a security officer can't get out of a bolted room they probably don't know what they're doing.

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Re: How to not be shit as AI

Postby terranaut » Thu Dec 05, 2019 4:55 pm #527483

There are a few key points to playing AI well
1) Be observant. It's extremely easy for you, since your "body" is an invisible noclip ghost providing mostly xray vision and your real body is safe and sound* somewhere in space. Use audio cues to figure out if you're under attack since sound you hear is still centered on the core. If you hear a welding tool slicing someone is probably taking down an rwall into your core. Read radio and try to catch on to what people are doing, move your camera around and see what people are doing.
2) Know your tools and how to use them, and what humanoids can do to counter your tools. Hotkeys: CTRL-Click bolts a door, Alt-Click shocks a door, Shift-Click opens a door, CTRL-Shift-Click sets emergency access. You can click on any button that a camera can see to use it. Just click on it to open the AI door control panel. A bolted door can't be opened without hacking it first - if the bolt wire is known and the guy is decent that'll be about 3 seconds. A bolted, depowered door cannot be opened save destruction or RCD. You can depower a door with the door control panel or by shutting off environmental and/or main breaker on an APC. Someone with access has to swipe their ID and turn both off. Meanwhile you can just lock the panel after they swiped their ID and laugh. Learn how to use atmos/air alarms. This is both useful when malf/subverted and when trying to fix damage, say when Toxins set itself on fire yet again. The top-right quarter of the game screen is just a bunch of verbs and a good place to keep the crew monitor, always open. If people suddenly go off-sensors or start taking damage you might want to take note.
3) Be aware of the 'factions'. In a simple model the factions are crew, antags and silicons. Inherently you're neither pro-crew nor pro-antag. You're pro no harm being done. If the crew are lynching (human) antags by the dozen then you are anti crew and pro antag. Clever antags will use this understanding and pull you to their side and force you to help while keeping all their harmful shenanigans on the down-low. It's the garbage AIs that call human-harming nonhuman shitcurity on a human antag who's just stealing the blueprints because muh valids. If someone cries that you're a shitter, chances are he doesn't understand how to play with a good AI. Of course you just might be a shitter, I don't know you.
4) Decide on an approach. Aside from harm being done and people giving you orders, you don't need to do anything. You can observe, like people observe ants in a terrarium and watch them plod along, toil and labour and waste away. Or you can assume leadership because, let's face it, Command won't do it and you're better equipped to do it anyway. Tell people what to do, where to go and why to do your bidding, be an efficient station overseer if you like. Or just doorshock catgirls because they're rude to you like you'd step on an ant without noticing it.

*any player with triple digit IQ can kill you and you can do nothing to stop him if you don't have a good borg player. luckily that means you're safe from about 99% of the playerbase
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Re: How to not be shit as AI

Postby deedubya » Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:37 pm #527540

Jack7D1 wrote:I bolted in the lone security officer to prevent further human harm.

Be careful with this. You can technically get bwoinked for it. Brush up on your silicon policy.

skoglol wrote:
bagil

Well there's your problem

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Re: How to not be shit as AI

Postby nianjiilical » Fri Dec 06, 2019 12:33 am #527550

actually the most important part of being ai is shitposting by telling the crew there's a cult because poly said so and watching as they actually argue over calling the shuttle

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Re: How to not be shit as AI

Postby terranaut » Fri Dec 06, 2019 5:16 am #527585

nianjiilical wrote:actually the most important part of being ai is shitposting by telling the crew there's a cult because poly said so and watching as they actually argue over calling the shuttle

that's what i would have answered if he had asked how to have the most fun as AI
its fun to describe things happening in vague ways that will lead the crew to misinterpret them and start behaving like idiots
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Re: How to not be shit as AI

Postby zero the big boy » Fri Dec 06, 2019 6:53 am #527593

in rev rounds things will go to shit and there'll be nothing you can do about it in the slightest

prevent harmies where you can and listen to orders when asked but other than that don't stress yourself out because mister flashies mcflashie pants is trying to bludgeon grey mctide because he had sunglasses on

edit: tl;dr report it to security and sillycones and then move on

you have more important harmies you can be preventing like the captain getting fucking flamethrowered to death in the brig

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Re: How to not be shit as AI

Postby Lumbermancer » Fri Dec 06, 2019 9:58 pm #527699

to be not shit is to resist the urge of killing everyone, if you can manage that, you will be just fine
aka Schlomo Gaskin aka Guru Meditation aka Copyright Alright aka Topkek McHonk aka Le Rouge
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wesoda25
 
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Re: How to not be shit as AI

Postby wesoda25 » Sat Dec 07, 2019 12:26 am #527713

Lumbermancer wrote:to be not shit is to resist the urge of killing everyone, if you can manage that, you will be just fine

you just couldn’t resist your valids, could you?
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Re: How to not be shit as AI

Postby IcePacks » Sat Dec 07, 2019 5:09 am #527738

i can't think of any particular ways to be a good snitchbot considering your prime directive is to preserve yourself, snitch on everyone, and ensure that nothing dangerous ever happens.
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Re: How to not be shit as AI

Postby oranges » Sat Dec 07, 2019 6:41 am #527748

you cant
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Re: How to not be shit as AI

Postby bandit » Sat Dec 07, 2019 7:42 am #527753

actually make a minimum effort to roleplay that you are a computer instead of just talking like a regular person
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Re: How to not be shit as AI

Postby cacogen » Sat Dec 07, 2019 8:19 am #527755

oranges wrote:you cant

play the game

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Re: How to not be shit as AI

Postby Lumbermancer » Sat Dec 07, 2019 9:15 am #527764

wesoda25 wrote:
Lumbermancer wrote:to be not shit is to resist the urge of killing everyone, if you can manage that, you will be just fine

you just couldn’t resist your valids, could you?

It took couple hundred hours, but everyone breaks in the end.
aka Schlomo Gaskin aka Guru Meditation aka Copyright Alright aka Topkek McHonk aka Le Rouge
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Re: How to not be shit as AI

Postby MisterPerson » Sat Dec 07, 2019 11:49 pm #527837

bandit wrote:actually make a minimum effort to roleplay that you are a computer instead of just talking like a regular person


This is harder to do than you might think (at least for me), but it's really important. Gotta remember to slow down. It's not like you're in the middle of the action, you can afford to wait an extra few seconds considering what you're gonna say and how you'll say it.
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Immersion/flavor is playing a WW2 shooter and using a mosin-nagant instead of a laser gun - this is important.

Realism is playing a WW2 shooter and having to spend 2 months in hospital everytime you get shot - stupid and detrimental to gameplay. Nobody actually wants a realistic game, which is why realism arguments are so selectively used.
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