anomaly slimes need a nerf

OFQ · Post by **OFQ** » Sat Feb 08, 2020 9:49 am #540789

Anomaly slime can destroy the round for everyone by killing gravy APC, SM APC and silo + vault APC (if vault has been bolted when APC died the station is fucked for real long time) also slime can easily kill AI on most of the maps via vent crawl + killing its APC (slime take no damage from turrets and can't be stun)

Refer to: 129842 on Manuel

deedubya · Post by **deedubya** » Sat Feb 08, 2020 9:53 am #540790

Nightmare is a similarly common midround that can do all that and then some, and is actually incredibly robust on top of that.

A slime - even a smart one - just gets hosed by the first person they see with an extinguisher. They're already weak as shit.

OFQ · Post by **OFQ** » Sat Feb 08, 2020 9:56 am #540791

Hey also please add *mooduwu emote

OFQ · Post by **OFQ** » Sat Feb 08, 2020 9:57 am #540792

deedubya wrote:Nightmare is a similarly common midround that can do all that and then some, and is actually incredibly robust on top of that.

A slime - even a smart one - just gets hosed by the first person they see with an extinguisher. They're already weak as shit.

The thing with the slime is that it can vent crawl anywhere (including AI core)

carshalash · Post by **carshalash** » Sat Feb 08, 2020 10:00 am #540793

Slimes being able to break apcs and machines doesnt really make much sense.

OFQ · Post by **OFQ** » Sat Feb 08, 2020 10:03 am #540795

Yeah I would much more prefer is the slime could procreate (split) and switch between the bodies like slime person but at the same time it couldn't attack machines. It would encourage slime to actually vore people instead of being a little shitter. Currently there is no point in eating anyone if you are at 100% HP.

OFQ · Post by **OFQ** » Sat Feb 08, 2020 10:19 am #540799

Also admeme asked me to not do this on Manuel again. I literally ended the round with a single slime spawn, to prove my point. And yeah, it doesn't takes any robustness, just a dedication to be a total shitter. But at the same time there is no RP guidelines for slimes and how smart they are. Killing gravitation give slime combat advantage. Killing SM APC give slime more bros. And killing AI gives it the totally cheesy ass points

OFQ · Post by **OFQ** » Sat Feb 08, 2020 10:25 am #540800

btw. If I was an engineer and I knew that a gamer slime on the loose I would attach cooler to both vents and scrubbers network. It will stun and kill slime every time since it can't get out from the network when freezing. Slime counter play would be first coming near a vent and making sure you don't get cold damage and if not jump in and be the gamer you are. But if you do take damage then it is time to hide in a warm place for like 10-20 minutes. Engies eventually will turn the freezers off because entire station gonna get real cold and maybe slippery.

Flatulent · Post by **Flatulent** » Sat Feb 08, 2020 10:36 am #540802

just weld vents instead of crying ided

OFQ · Post by **OFQ** » Sat Feb 08, 2020 10:46 am #540804

It takes like 1-2 minutes to permanently fuck entire station for the slime. The crew doesn't have time to weld them + it's not like they perceive anomaly slime as a super gamer antag.

Jack7D1 · Post by **Jack7D1** » Sat Feb 08, 2020 11:52 am #540807

I got anomoly slime once and chilled out in bar while people fed me monkeys. Then a security officer saw me and just fire extinguishered me to death wordlessly.

pugie · Post by **pugie** » Sat Feb 08, 2020 11:54 am #540808

I think using the supermatter to create infinite antagonists that quite easily kill people is pretty lame and shouldn't be a thing. Slimes have no right to be able to break machinery either that's superlame.

Slimes aren't that horrible to deal with though, there's a few solutions.

Firstly, you can RCD around important structures like APCs and air alarms so they cant badly sabotage the supermatter.
Secondly is welding the vents in engineering so they can't get out, this one works pretty well.
Third one is exposing most of the engine room to space. This will kill almost all the slimes that spawn but is time intensive and makes SM pretty uninhabitable.
Fourth is the temperature gun. It's basically the purpose of the gun, it's in armoury and can be mass printed out at sec techlathes with the right research. Hitting a slime with 2 freeze beams is enough to totally immobilise it.

Honestly player controlled pyro anomaly slimes are dumb and shouldn't be a thing.

Anonmare · Post by **Anonmare** » Sat Feb 08, 2020 1:11 pm #540819

They were fine until someone had the bright idea to give them the ability to damage structures

Seriously there was a reason that code was left broken.

Tlaltecuhtli · Sat Feb 08, 2020 2:14 pm

https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/issues/48773

its part of skogol masterplan to nerf assistants of course

Flatulent · Post by **Flatulent** » Sat Feb 08, 2020 4:15 pm #540833

OFQ wrote:It takes like 1-2 minutes to permanently fuck entire station for the slime. The crew doesn't have time to weld them + it's not like they perceive anomaly slime as a super gamer antag.

anomaly slimes are never fucking stealth - there is an announcement for random anomaly spawns and SM can only create anomalies under specific circumstances

if you know there’s a slime, act fast or you deserve to be “permanently” fucked

skoglol · Post by **skoglol** » Sat Feb 08, 2020 4:35 pm #540842

Just straightjackethire some assistants to sit in the engine chamber to distract the slimes

Anonmare · Post by **Anonmare** » Sat Feb 08, 2020 4:37 pm #540843

To be honest, the best way to get something nerfed is just to abuse it until people no longer find it funny.

Y'know, kill the AI and break the comms consoles over and over and kill anyone who tries to fix it

It's super easy to kill the AI. Hell, the turret lasers will heal you.

Yenwodyah · Post by **Yenwodyah** » Sat Feb 08, 2020 6:22 pm #540863

Maybe you should neutralize the anomaly before it spawns a slime then.

Post by **Cobby** » Sun Feb 09, 2020 1:07 am #540946

Tlaltecuhtli wrote:https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/issues/48773

its part of skogol masterplan to nerf assistants of course

just because it's not a bug doesn't mean you can't PR a change.

OFQ · Post by **OFQ** » Sun Feb 09, 2020 10:32 pm #541179

Well my dudes I did it:

You have been banned by JusticeGoat from Roles: Sentience Potion Spawn, Abductor, Xenomorph, Blob, Blood Brother, Changeling, Cultist, Devil, Internal Affairs Agent, Malf AI, Monkey, Operative, Syndicate Mutineer, Revolutionary, Revenant, Head Revolutionary, Syndicate, Traitor, Wizard.
Reason: Takes the pyro anomaly slime to destroy important apc\'s to end the round very often. Take a break from doing this, abusing a antag to get change is the wrong way to do things.
This ban is temporary, it will be removed in 1 week. The round ID is 129941.
To appeal this ban go to https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewforum.php?f=7

Then the second admeme piled on and:

You have been banned by Shaps from the server.
Reason: Taking anomaly slimes to immediately run around destroying station infrastructure in bad faith hoping that someone will change the thing. Has said in his own thread on the forums that an admin has told him not to do this in the future, which he confirmed in ahelps. Multiple poor conduct notes in a short time, if you want to make a change to the code, learn how to contribute to the github.
This ban is temporary, it will be removed in 2 days. The round ID is 129941.
To appeal this ban go to https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewforum.php?f=7

Now the question is. Should I appeal this ban because it is a feature or should I be banned for abusing the bug

OFQ · Post by **OFQ** » Sun Feb 09, 2020 10:35 pm #541180

Anonmare wrote:To be honest, the best way to get something nerfed is just to abuse it until people no longer find it funny.

"If you're going to try, go all the way. Otherwise, don't even start." (c) Charles Bukowski

Sun Feb 09, 2020 11:10 pm

Just download the source code and commit a fucking change

You bragged in ahelps that you were told not to do this by an admin already and that you actively playing in an unfun manner, I don't care how you feel about the code, the instant someone is stupid enough to admit to admins that they're acting in bad faith, especially on Manuel, all bets are off

OFQ · Post by **OFQ** » Sun Feb 09, 2020 11:30 pm #541186

Shaps-cloud wrote:Just download the source code and commit a fucking change

You bragged in ahelps that you were told not to do this by an admin already and that you actively playing in an unfun manner, I don't care how you feel about the code, the instant someone is stupid enough to admit to admins that they're acting in bad faith, especially on Manuel, all bets are off

Well I guess then I have to elaborate https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=25506

wesoda25 · Post by **wesoda25** » Sun Feb 09, 2020 11:35 pm #541191

oh yeah big brain hours rn

OFQ · Post by **OFQ** » Sun Feb 09, 2020 11:41 pm #541193

Had to get it to the next level. At least I can be proud to be so robust of a slime that I got double banned

Imagine if this "You have been banned by JusticeGoat from Roles: Sentience Potion Spawn, Abductor, Xenomorph, Blob, Blood Brother, Changeling, Cultist, Devil, Internal Affairs Agent, Malf AI, Monkey, Operative, Syndicate Mutineer, Revolutionary, Revenant, Head Revolutionary, Syndicate, Traitor, Wizard." doesn't cover anomaly slimes. Can one resists...

wesoda25 · Post by **wesoda25** » Sun Feb 09, 2020 11:57 pm #541194

Yeah bro go for the perma

OFQ · Post by **OFQ** » Mon Feb 10, 2020 12:03 am #541195

Imagine getting perma for trying to nerf the slime but it still stays the same

Then I should create smurf and keep playing "gamer slime" and make it my thing. My name will become a legend. Well. I guess not, if I gonna use smurfs. That's kinda defeats the whole plan.

Post by **oranges** » Mon Feb 10, 2020 12:40 am #541203

OFQ wrote:Imagine getting perma for trying to nerf the slime but it still stays the same

Then I should create smurf and keep playing "gamer slime" and make it my thing. My name will become a legend. Well. I guess not, if I gonna use smurfs. That's kinda defeats the whole plan.

you're not trying to nerf anything, otherwise you would be making PR's, you're just abusing the broken mechanics

OFQ · Post by **OFQ** » Mon Feb 10, 2020 12:45 am #541210

oranges wrote:
OFQ wrote:Imagine getting perma for trying to nerf the slime but it still stays the same

Then I should create smurf and keep playing "gamer slime" and make it my thing. My name will become a legend. Well. I guess not, if I gonna use smurfs. That's kinda defeats the whole plan.
you're not trying to nerf anything, otherwise you would be making PR's, you're just abusing the broken mechanics

Hello? https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/issues/48773

wesoda25 · Post by **wesoda25** » Mon Feb 10, 2020 12:53 am #541211

you can remove features

OFQ · Post by **OFQ** » Mon Feb 10, 2020 12:55 am #541213

First you have to prove that the feature is a bug...

wesoda25 · Post by **wesoda25** » Mon Feb 10, 2020 1:06 am #541216

no you literally dont have to, you make a pr

Post by **Armhulen** » Mon Feb 10, 2020 1:08 am #541217

OFQ wrote:First you have to prove that the feature is a bug...

what? who ever said this? you're just making random stuff up to justify acting like a hormone hog instead of actually contributing to the game. ping me on discord (armhulen#9821) in the coding channel if you want to quickly throw up a pr removing this.

OFQ · Post by **OFQ** » Mon Feb 10, 2020 1:12 am #541219

A dude opened GitHub ticked that I linked "slimes can damage structures like machinery/apc/etc" and it was closed because "slimes can damage structures like machinery/apc/etc" considered to be a feature not a bug. Who in the right mind would be opening a PR against closed issue?

OFQ · Post by **OFQ** » Mon Feb 10, 2020 1:15 am #541220

I guess I can make a PR that rebalances slime. Like preventing it from smashing things but at the same time allow it to reproduce like a normal slime

wesoda25 · Post by **wesoda25** » Mon Feb 10, 2020 1:17 am #541223

Feature in that case means it is intentional, not a bug. Nothing stopping you from removing that feature

Post by **Armhulen** » Mon Feb 10, 2020 1:18 am #541224

if you need help with the pull request you know who to call, or if you want to set up yourself here is a guide

skoglol · Post by **skoglol** » Mon Feb 10, 2020 1:19 am #541225

Balance discussions arent held on the issue tracker, that is exclusively for bugs and the like. You are allowed to open a PR to rebalance something even when connected to a closed issue.

The fact that slimes can break glass is good imo, but I can see how breaking APC's all over the place just get annoying.

Post by **Armhulen** » Mon Feb 10, 2020 1:20 am #541227

skoglol wrote:Balance discussions arent held on the issue tracker, that is exclusively for bugs and the like. You are allowed to open a PR to rebalance something even when connected to a closed issue.

The fact that slimes can break glass is good imo, but I can see how breaking APC's all over the place just get annoying.

2 line pull request to prevent machines from breaking while still letting everything else take damage

OFQ · Post by **OFQ** » Mon Feb 10, 2020 1:25 am #541229

Armhulen wrote:
skoglol wrote:Balance discussions arent held on the issue tracker, that is exclusively for bugs and the like. You are allowed to open a PR to rebalance something even when connected to a closed issue.

The fact that slimes can break glass is good imo, but I can see how breaking APC's all over the place just get annoying.
2 line pull request to prevent machines from breaking while still letting everything else take damage

More like installing VScode, figuring out how to setup language server for .dm, digging into like 1k lines of code\modules\mob\living\simple_animal\slime finest .dm spaget and recompiling this shit like 5 times at minimum. I bet it doesn't have hot code reload.

Actually it looks like the anomaly slime is a separate mob type.

Mon Feb 10, 2020 1:40 am

OFQ wrote:
Armhulen wrote:
skoglol wrote:Balance discussions arent held on the issue tracker, that is exclusively for bugs and the like. You are allowed to open a PR to rebalance something even when connected to a closed issue.

The fact that slimes can break glass is good imo, but I can see how breaking APC's all over the place just get annoying.
2 line pull request to prevent machines from breaking while still letting everything else take damage
More like installing VScode, figuring out how to setup language server for .dm, digging into like 1k lines of code\modules\mob\living\simple_animal\slime finest .dm spaget and recompiling this shit like 5 times at minimum. I bet it doesn't have hot code reload.

Actually it looks like the anomaly slime is a separate mob type.

ive written like 250 PRs and most of them were just in dreammaker, ss13 code can be really spaghetti but it's rarely difficult to understand

Post by **Armhulen** » Mon Feb 10, 2020 1:44 am #541236

PKPenguin321 wrote:
OFQ wrote:
Armhulen wrote:
skoglol wrote:Balance discussions arent held on the issue tracker, that is exclusively for bugs and the like. You are allowed to open a PR to rebalance something even when connected to a closed issue.

The fact that slimes can break glass is good imo, but I can see how breaking APC's all over the place just get annoying.
2 line pull request to prevent machines from breaking while still letting everything else take damage
More like installing VScode, figuring out how to setup language server for .dm, digging into like 1k lines of code\modules\mob\living\simple_animal\slime finest .dm spaget and recompiling this shit like 5 times at minimum. I bet it doesn't have hot code reload.

Actually it looks like the anomaly slime is a separate mob type.
ive written like 250 PRs and most of them were just in dreammaker, ss13 code can be really spaghetti but it's rarely difficult to understand

this and double so when it's two lines you can add from the website (i'll tell you the lines)

Post by **Cobby** » Mon Feb 10, 2020 1:52 am #541237

OFQ wrote:
oranges wrote:
OFQ wrote:Imagine getting perma for trying to nerf the slime but it still stays the same

Then I should create smurf and keep playing "gamer slime" and make it my thing. My name will become a legend. Well. I guess not, if I gonna use smurfs. That's kinda defeats the whole plan.
you're not trying to nerf anything, otherwise you would be making PR's, you're just abusing the broken mechanics

Hello? https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/issues/48773

do you know what a pr is

OFQ · Post by **OFQ** » Mon Feb 10, 2020 2:05 am #541242

Ok I have an idea.
Fuck the pyroclastic anomaly slime. The fire that the anomaly starts is bad enough. Spawning sentient slime adds totally unpredictable level of threat to it. And from the slime perspective you spawn half the time in space or maints without vents that also sucks big time. Also you are some kind of a strange slime that can't evolve and shit.

For the SM slimes I propose spawning actually normal slimes so engineering can cooperate with xenobio in breeding them. It will reduce the xenobio chore and provide interesting interplay between departments. It will also increase the reward for risky SM setups which is much welcome since energy is cheap and TEG are way way way better and safer at it. Also someone might end up building whole xenobio lab around SM - sounds epic.

Yeah and all slimes shouldn't be able to attack APC and shit.

- - - - - -

Cobby wrote:do you know what a pr is

I do know that "normal" people. First open issue. And if it acknowledged they open a PR where they reference the issue it fixes (GitHub has special linking mechanism for it) Alternatively you open a PR without issue and hope that it will get merged. But what you DO NOT DO is opening PR for issue that was rejected. Welcome to GitHub btw

Post by **oranges** » Mon Feb 10, 2020 2:12 am #541244

issues are for bugs.

What you have is not a bug, it's a matter of balancing.

OFQ · Post by **OFQ** » Mon Feb 10, 2020 2:18 am #541246

Welp. Anyway gonna try implementing it with the dream thingy.

Last time I did something like this I ended up supporting one of the biggest piles of emacs lisp on the face of the planet...

deedubya · Post by **deedubya** » Mon Feb 10, 2020 2:46 am #541256

OFQ wrote:the pyroclastic anomaly slime

the SM slimes

These are the same thing, as I remember it. The SM spawns anomalies, which then spawn slimes.

OFQ · Post by **OFQ** » Mon Feb 10, 2020 2:50 am #541257

deedubya wrote:
OFQ wrote:the pyroclastic anomaly slime

the SM slimes
These are the same thing, as I remember it. The SM spawns anomalies, which then spawn slimes.

SM spawns red slimes directly and orange ones via pyroclastic anomalies.

OFQ · Post by **OFQ** » Mon Feb 10, 2020 4:46 am #541263

Waaait a second. It doesn't look like SM spawns slimes at all. Only anomalies. So I guess the red slimes around SM I remember was usual pyroclastic ones? Not a problem anyway. I'll make it spawn random slimes. Probably only T1, or maybe with more SM power you should get better slimes. And if they won't be sentient then there is no problem with smashing APC and stuff. But then sentient slimes are kinda cool... Hmm Actually given that they will be farmed making them sentient kinda sucks. Also creating special case for slimes like "all the mobs can attack APC but not slimes" only because there are events that spawn sentient slimes sucks even more. Hmmm hmmm. At the same time if SM spawns a sentient slime and it escapes and starts to trash station it is pretty much engies fault since you just need to weld vents and scrubbers. And given that engies are farming them for cores - it provides a pretty good RP reason for slime to be grumpy as hell. And it's not like we force ghost to play a farm slime. Yes to the murdering sentient slimes and putting them into the grinder while they are making sad faces!

Mon Feb 10, 2020 8:34 am

Careful how ya go about this. Take into account how good xenobio stuff is, be careful not to cheapen it.
I would also caution you against not removing either sentience or obj damage, as if engi does not farm the slimes we will be in the same position as we are now.