[TheMidnightRose] Engineer Palmer - Forced Ghostrole Ghosting

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Horza
 
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:43 pm
Byond Username: HorzBor

[TheMidnightRose] Engineer Palmer - Forced Ghostrole Ghosting

Postby Horza » Tue Mar 17, 2020 3:51 am #549942

Manuel
Byond account and character name OR Discord name:
HorzBor, Engineer Palmer
Admin:
TheMidnightRose
When and where this incident occured (Game Server, forums, Discord):
2020-03-16, ~2130 MDT, Manuel
ROUND ID HERE IF APPLICABLE:
132380

Detailed summary:
Was just a ghost, after the HoP took my access away IC for no other reason that my in-round gimmick was to throw hats at people, and I got the HoP good. Suicided since a mime with no access seems silly, and the HoPline was disgusting until roundend. After some time and admemery with the SM and radiation, ERT roles were offered up. I accepted and got spawned as an ERT agent. I spawned on the usual ERT shuttle, alone, with no real orders. The ERT shuttle was docked to the station. I asked what would I do, and got no real response other than a where are you. I hid in a locker just outside the shuttle airlock doors since I didn't want to interfere with the round until concrete orders were given. Here's the in-game logs as I saw them from around that point:

Spoiler:
[CentCom] Engineer Palmer asks, "Wat do?"
Engineer Palmer asks, "Wat do?"
You unbuckle yourself from the shuttle seat.
[CentCom] Medical Officer Laborde says, "Holy shit"
[CentCom] Commander Bloise asks, "Where are you Laborde?"
[CentCom] Engineer Palmer says, "I'm on a shuttle on station"
Engineer Palmer says, "I'm on a shuttle on station"
[CentCom] Engineer Palmer says, "Seems weird"
Engineer Palmer says, "Seems weird"
[CentCom] Medical Officer Laborde says, "OH FUCK ME"
[CentCom] Engineer Palmer says, "My geiger counter is going ballistic"
Engineer Palmer says, "My geiger counter is going ballistic"
[CentCom] Medical Officer Laborde says, "IM RADDED TO HELL AND BACK"
[CentCom] Engineer Palmer asks, "Do I even have a geiger counter?"
Engineer Palmer asks, "Do I even have a geiger counter?"
[CentCom] Medical Officer Laborde exclaims, "Keep away from engineering! It's fucking chernobyl in there!"
OOC: Kassori: reactor causes human harm
[CentCom] Commander Bloise says, "I think we all are now, I can hear the clicks going like crazy"
Attention! Code red!
There is an immediate serious threat to the station. Security may have weapons unholstered at all times. Random searches are allowed and advised.
Automated Lighting System Announcement
Disabling night lighting: Station is in a state of emergency.
[CentCom] Engineer Palmer asks, "I don't. Why do I have a geiger counter?"
Engineer Palmer asks, "I don't. Why do I have a geiger counter?"
Research Director's Desk Announcement:
Remember, PDAs still work and so do these. Just report to heads of staff until Engineering gets telecomms fixed.
The newscaster beeps, "Breaking news from Station Announcements!"
[Engineering] Poly squawks, "%/****s"
[CentCom] Engineer Palmer says, "I don't have a geiger counter. WHY DO I HEAR TICKING."
Engineer Palmer says, "I don't have a geiger counter. WHY DO I HEAR TICKING."
[CentCom] Medical Officer Laborde says, "Sir I recommend we seal engineering off."
[CentCom] Engineer Palmer says, "Abandon engineering"
Engineer Palmer says, "Abandon engineering"


I hid in the fire equipment locker from here, since I didn't want to interfere with the round until the squad arrived or I was given orders.

Then, here's the important part:
You hear a voice in your head... Please go team up with the other members of the ERT, or I am going to swap you out.
Just before this point, the shuttle back to centcomm left. I was stuck on the station unless the shuttle came back. The other ERT members, as far as I knew, were in the ERT spawn point. I had no information to indicate otherwise. There were no ERT members on the shuttle other than me.

Followed by:
Spoiler:
The newscaster beeps, "Breaking news from Station Announcements!"
Captain Announces
Alright, I guess I really underestimated how bad the radiation is. Everyone get a suit on, or else we're all going to be cooked in the shuttle
[CentCom] Engineer Palmer says, "Get the crew safely to centcomm"
Engineer Palmer says, "Get the crew safely to centcomm"
[CentCom] Commander Bloise says, "This situation just keeps getting worse we need to get these people to the shuttle"
[CentCom] Engineer Palmer says, "It'd be nice to team up with the other ERT members EXCEPT THE SHUTTLE LEFT"
Engineer Palmer says, "It'd be nice to team up with the other ERT members EXCEPT THE SHUTTLE LEFT"
[CentCom] Engineer Palmer says, "Great planning, centcomm"
Engineer Palmer says, "Great planning, centcomm"
[CentCom] Engineer Palmer says, "Fucking idiots"
Engineer Palmer says, "Fucking idiots"
[CentCom] Engineer Palmer says, "Gonna hide in this locker now"
Engineer Palmer says, "Gonna hide in this locker now"


Then I see this:
Control of your mob has been offered to dead players.
Your mob has been taken over by a ghost!

Really? Really? My not wanting to interfere with the round until the matter got cleared up made me got force-ghosted? I don't understand.



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TheMidnghtRose
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Re: [TheMidnightRose] Engineer Palmer - Forced Ghostrole Ghosting

Postby TheMidnghtRose » Tue Mar 17, 2020 8:38 am #549972

As I explained to you in Dchat immediately after the event. I sent the ERT to go help the station in whatever way possible since the station was being irradiated due to a bug, you got offered up because you were just hiding in a locker. The Whole point of the Emergency response teams is to affect the round.
Emerald Gleaner -Miner/Viro/QM/HoP/Medical/Slime Breeder/Robo/AI/SM Delaminator.

Admin Feedback is here! viewtopic.php?f=37&t=20509

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Arianya
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Re: [TheMidnightRose] Engineer Palmer - Forced Ghostrole Ghosting

Postby Arianya » Tue Mar 17, 2020 12:59 pm #550002

As a general precedent, ghostroles are not sacred and can be handed off/deleted/etc. with relatively little reason (though obviously open abuse isn't tolerated).

This precedent goes doubly for admin-spawned ghostroles like ERTs - you only get the role because the admin spawned one, so they're generally more free game for being poked towards action, deleted or replaced with a willing ghost.
Frequently playing as Aria Bollet on Bagil & Scary Terry

Source of avatar is here: https://i.imgur.com/hEkADo6.jpg

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Horza
 
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:43 pm
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Re: [TheMidnightRose] Engineer Palmer - Forced Ghostrole Ghosting

Postby Horza » Tue Mar 17, 2020 4:33 pm #550032

Alright, makes more sense, just two points:
As far as I knew, I was spawned alone in a location without any ERT nearby. I tried to communicate with them and didn't get much response. I didn't know where everyone else was. I didn't know what was going on, so I was going to sit tight until I knew for sure.
And I was a willing ghost, just very confused and that could have been easily clarified rather than just swapping me out.

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XivilaiAnaxes
 
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Re: [TheMidnightRose] Engineer Palmer - Forced Ghostrole Ghosting

Postby XivilaiAnaxes » Tue Mar 17, 2020 9:28 pm #550060

Can I point out that in your first logdump there are clearly ERT members talking about how irradiated engineering is - why wouldn't you assume that they're already on the station?

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Horza
 
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:43 pm
Byond Username: HorzBor

Re: [TheMidnightRose] Engineer Palmer - Forced Ghostrole Ghosting

Postby Horza » Thu Mar 19, 2020 3:32 pm #550319

XivilaiAnaxes wrote:Can I point out that in your first logdump there are clearly ERT members talking about how irradiated engineering is - why wouldn't you assume that they're already on the station?

Again, I had thought that they were talking about the situation in the briefing room or the hallway just outside that room in centcomm.
I had thought that they were still at centcomm, and was waiting in the locker just outside the shuttle door for them to arrive, since I was confused, and didn't think to simply remain in the shuttle.
I had thought that it was impossible to meet up with the squad until they had arrived from centcomm on the shuttle, and the order to go meet up with them was nonsensical to me since I had just seen the shuttle vanish and apparently go back to centcomm, thus this was the best place to meet up with them.
I had thought that, for whatever reason, I had spawned in the shuttle instead of the briefing room, and I was now waiting for anyone to get back to me or to inform me as to what I should do. I was whispered instructions that didn't make sense to me.

Thus, my issue was, instead of telling me "your teammates are already on the station, dipshit" the ghostrole was simply taken away. Yes, admins are fully in their right to do that, but at the time it seemed completely arbitrary to me.

PostThis post was deleted by Arianya on Sat Mar 21, 2020 2:09 pm.
Reason: Peanut posting

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Horza
 
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:43 pm
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Re: [TheMidnightRose] Engineer Palmer - Forced Ghostrole Ghosting

Postby Horza » Fri Mar 20, 2020 9:48 pm #550590

Which is not at all what happened. Which brings me to my point:
The player doesn't necessarily know or understand the situation in the same way that the admin does. Or vice versa. Half of this complaint was me trying to get to the bottom of things after the fact (which I'm already content with by now), and the other half is me complaining about the admin's actions when, again, a simple "your teammates are already on the station, dipshit" would have sufficed. I'm not asking for deadmin or anything like that.

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capn_monkeypaw
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Re: [TheMidnightRose] Engineer Palmer - Forced Ghostrole Ghosting

Postby capn_monkeypaw » Mon Mar 30, 2020 9:35 pm #552251

I will address the specific details of your complaint in a moment, but first allow me to speak in general terms regarding admin spawning of ghostroles:

As Ari said previously, admin-spawned ghostroles are not precious. To elaborate: admins may swap players in and out of them as they see fit.

ERTs are in no way an exception to the above.

Emergency Response Teams are - in particular - always close-run things for admins. One rarely spawns an ERT when time isn't of the essence and the simple act of herding five players of wildly varying experience into the round can be shockingly time-consuming. ERT players get swapped out all the time for dicking around, ignoring their orders, disconnecting, etc...

To speak specifically to the events that prompted this complaint:

As TheMidnightRose explained, you were in fact the second player to inhabit the body of Engineer Palmer. The first player disconnected shortly after taking the role, at which point TheMidnightRose offered it up to the ghosts and you managed to snag it:
Code: Select all
[2020-03-17 03:30:42.849] ADMIN: TheMidnightRose/(Emerald Gleaner) has offered control of (Yaboi69[DC]/(Engineer Palmer)) to ghosts.
[2020-03-17 03:30:55.155] ACCESS: Mob Login: HorzBor/(Engineer Palmer) was assigned to a /mob/living/carbon/human

You spawn on the CentCom ferry, which is already docked at the station. You make a SUPER FUNNY JOKE and then attempt to make contact with your fellow teammates:
Code: Select all
[2020-03-17 03:30:55.157] GAME: HorzBor/(Engineer Palmer) Client HorzBor/(Engineer Palmer) has taken ownership of mob Engineer Palmer(/mob/living/carbon/human) (Transport Shuttle (134, 203, 2))
[2020-03-17 03:31:00.095] SAY: HorzBor/(Engineer Palmer) "I LOVE TO MURDER" (Transport Shuttle (134, 203, 2))
[2020-03-17 03:31:14.517] TCOMMS: HorzBor/(Engineer Palmer) [CentCom] "Wat do?" (language: Galactic Common) (Transport Shuttle (134, 203, 2))

You then spend a minute and forty-five seconds dicking around in arrivals, talking about Geiger counters over the same CentCom radio channel that your teammates are actively using:
Code: Select all
[2020-03-17 03:31:17.738] TCOMMS: korusho/(Medical Officer Laborde) [CentCom] "Holy shit" (language: Galactic Common) (Atmospherics Engine (106, 176, 2))
[2020-03-17 03:31:20.694] TCOMMS: DimmaDunk/(Sebastian Schrader) [Medical] "Because Centcomm is incompetent as fuck." (language: Galactic Common) (Morgue (162, 73, 2))
[2020-03-17 03:31:28.610] TCOMMS: ScrimbleBungus/(Commander Bloise) [CentCom] "Where are you Laborde?" (language: Galactic Common) (Fore Primary Hallway (152, 179, 2))
[2020-03-17 03:31:37.220] TCOMMS: HorzBor/(Engineer Palmer) [CentCom] "I'm on a shuttle on station" (language: Galactic Common) (Transport Shuttle (134, 202, 2))
[2020-03-17 03:31:40.263] TCOMMS: HorzBor/(Engineer Palmer) [CentCom] "Seems weird" (language: Galactic Common) (Transport Shuttle (134, 201, 2))
[2020-03-17 03:31:55.229] TCOMMS: korusho/(Medical Officer Laborde) [CentCom] "OH FUCK ME" (language: Galactic Common) (Port Bow Maintenance (113, 176, 2))
[2020-03-17 03:31:59.513] TCOMMS: HorzBor/(Engineer Palmer) [CentCom] "My geiger counter is going ballistic" (language: Galactic Common) (Arrival Shuttle Hallway (137, 194, 2))
[2020-03-17 03:32:00.621] TCOMMS: korusho/(Medical Officer Laborde) [CentCom] "IM RADDED TO HELL AND BACK" (language: Galactic Common) (Port Bow Maintenance (113, 176, 2))
[2020-03-17 03:32:07.785] TCOMMS: HorzBor/(Engineer Palmer) [CentCom] "Do I even have a geiger counter?" (language: Galactic Common) (Arrival Shuttle Hallway (137, 194, 2))
[2020-03-17 03:32:14.414] TCOMMS: korusho/(Medical Officer Laborde) [CentCom] "Keep away from engineering! It's fucking chernobyl in there!" (language: Galactic Common) (Port Bow Maintenance (113, 169, 2))
[2020-03-17 03:32:20.215] TCOMMS: ScrimbleBungus/(Commander Bloise) [CentCom] "I think we all are now, I can hear the clicks going like crazy" (language: Galactic Common) (Central Primary Hallway (164, 148, 2))
[2020-03-17 03:32:24.009] TCOMMS: HorzBor/(Engineer Palmer) [CentCom] "I don't. Why do I have a geiger counter?" (language: Galactic Common) (Arrival Shuttle Hallway (137, 194, 2))
[2020-03-17 03:32:35.582] TCOMMS: HorzBor/(Engineer Palmer) [CentCom] "I don't have a geiger counter. WHY DO I HEAR TICKING." (language: Galactic Common) (Arrival Shuttle Hallway (137, 194, 2))
[2020-03-17 03:32:45.690] TCOMMS: korusho/(Medical Officer Laborde) [CentCom] "Sir I recommend we seal engineering off." (language: Galactic Common) (Atmospherics Engine (111, 176, 2))
[2020-03-17 03:32:52.515] TCOMMS: HorzBor/(Engineer Palmer) [CentCom] "Abandon engineering" (language: Galactic Common) (Arrival Shuttle Hallway (137, 194, 2))

It is important to note two things here:
1. The CentCom radio traffic offers clear and obvious clues as to the possible location of your teammates.
2. At no point do you ask your teammates for their location.

Growing impatient, TheMidnightRose subtlemessages you, offering fair warning as to what might happen if you don't get moving:
Code: Select all
[2020-03-17 03:32:54.880] ADMIN: SubtlePM: TheMidnightRose/(Emerald Gleaner) -> HorzBor/(Engineer Palmer) : Please go team up with the other members of the ERT, or I am going to swap you out.

Hearing this, you respond:
Code: Select all
[2020-03-17 03:33:01.466] TCOMMS: HorzBor/(Engineer Palmer) [CentCom] "Get the crew safely to centcomm" (language: Galactic Common) (Arrival Shuttle Hallway (137, 194, 2))
[2020-03-17 03:33:20.771] TCOMMS: HorzBor/(Engineer Palmer) [CentCom] "It'd be nice to team up with the other ERT members EXCEPT THE SHUTTLE LEFT" (language: Galactic Common) (Arrival Shuttle Hallway (137, 194, 2))
[2020-03-17 03:33:26.179] TCOMMS: HorzBor/(Engineer Palmer) [CentCom] "Great planning, centcomm" (language: Galactic Common) (Arrival Shuttle Hallway (137, 194, 2))
[2020-03-17 03:33:34.034] TCOMMS: HorzBor/(Engineer Palmer) [CentCom] "Fucking idiots" (language: Galactic Common) (Arrival Shuttle Hallway (137, 194, 2))
[2020-03-17 03:33:45.854] TCOMMS: HorzBor/(Engineer Palmer) [CentCom] "Gonna hide in this locker now" (language: Galactic Common) (Arrival Shuttle Hallway (137, 194, 2))

Seeing this, TheMidnightRose offers you up to the ghosts, surprising no one but you, apparently:
Code: Select all
[2020-03-17 03:33:49.532] ADMIN: TheMidnightRose/(Emerald Gleaner) has offered control of (HorzBor/(Engineer Palmer)) to ghosts.

The two of you then have this delightful conversation in deadchat:
Code: Select all
[2020-03-17 03:34:01.792] GAME: HorzBor/(Engineer Palmer) Client HorzBor/(Engineer Palmer) has taken ownership of mob Engineer Palmer(/mob/dead/observer) (Arrival Shuttle Hallway (137, 194, 2))
[2020-03-17 03:34:07.451] SAY: HorzBor/(Engineer Palmer) (DEAD) "Fucking admeme" (Vacant Office (137, 191, 2))
[2020-03-17 03:34:08.790] SAY: HorzBor/(Engineer Palmer) (DEAD) "Bro" (Vacant Office (137, 191, 2))
[2020-03-17 03:34:15.315] ADMIN: DSAY: TheMidnightRose/(Emerald Gleaner) "I gave you a role to help the station" (Fore Primary Hallway (152, 177, 2))
[2020-03-17 03:34:21.000] ADMIN: DSAY: TheMidnightRose/(Emerald Gleaner) "You decided to hide in a locker" (Fore Primary Hallway (152, 159, 2))
[2020-03-17 03:34:21.246] SAY: HorzBor/(Engineer Palmer) (DEAD) "I wasn't told to get back to other team members UNTIL AFTER THE SHUTTLE LEFT" (Vacant Office (137, 191, 2))
[2020-03-17 03:34:31.814] SAY: HorzBor/(Engineer Palmer) (DEAD) "THE SHUTTLE LEFT AFTER YOU TOLD ME TO GET BACK TO THE CENTCOMM MEMBERS" (Vacant Office (137, 191, 2))
[2020-03-17 03:34:32.670] ADMIN: DSAY: TheMidnightRose/(Emerald Gleaner) "Everyone on your team is on the god damn station" (Central Primary Hallway (133, 137, 2))
[2020-03-17 03:34:40.828] SAY: HorzBor/(Engineer Palmer) (DEAD) "I DIDN'T KNOW WHERE THEY WERE" (Vacant Office (137, 191, 2))
[2020-03-17 03:34:49.837] SAY: HorzBor/(Engineer Palmer) (DEAD) "I ASSUMED EVERYONE WAS ON THE CENTCOMM SPAWN POINT" (Vacant Office (137, 191, 2))
[2020-03-17 03:34:52.611] SAY: HorzBor/(Engineer Palmer) (DEAD) "NOBODY EVEN TOLD ME" (Vacant Office (137, 191, 2))
[2020-03-17 03:34:55.831] ADMIN: DSAY: TheMidnightRose/(Emerald Gleaner) "All you had to do is say 'Commander, where are you all?" (Engineering (101, 123, 2))
[2020-03-17 03:35:07.553] SAY: HorzBor/(Engineer Palmer) (DEAD) "I had exactly 15 seconds between your whisper and my ghosting" (Vacant Office (137, 191, 2))
[2020-03-17 03:35:08.983] SAY: HorzBor/(Engineer Palmer) (DEAD) "Fuck off" (Vacant Office (137, 191, 2))
[2020-03-17 03:35:36.176] SAY: TheMidnightRose/(Emerald Gleaner) (DEAD) "I ghosted youwhen you said that you were and I quote 'Engineer Palmer says, "Gonna hide in this locker now"'" (Engineering Foyer (96, 136, 2))
[2020-03-17 03:35:52.907] SAY: HorzBor/(Engineer Palmer) (DEAD) "I had an admin whisper in my ear to get back to my team members and I assumed they were at the same spawn point that everyone spawns at in 99% of cases" (Chapel (140, 52, 2))
[2020-03-17 03:35:57.606] SAY: HorzBor/(Engineer Palmer) (DEAD) "I had no other info" (Departure Lounge (143, 57, 2))
[2020-03-17 03:36:04.587] SAY: HorzBor/(Engineer Palmer) (DEAD) "Don't make me fucking admin complaint you" (Departure Lounge (143, 57, 2))

I'll sum things up like this:

If, as you claim, you were confused by...
Code: Select all
[2020-03-17 03:32:54.880] ADMIN: SubtlePM: TheMidnightRose/(Emerald Gleaner) -> HorzBor/(Engineer Palmer) : Please go team up with the other members of the ERT, or I am going to swap you out.
...you had a number of options. You could have ahelped or prayed for clarification. Heck, you could have even expressed your confusion in IC chat.

Instead, just before you hid in a goddamn locker, you took it upon yourself to say a bunch of rude shit that made you sound completely uncooperative.

Considering the way you were acting and the things you said, it's hardly shocking that TheMidnightRose offered you up instead of burning even more time explaining to you the particulars of a situation that were obvious to everyone else.

If you would like to prevent something similar from happening to you in the future, I might suggest being somewhat less of a stubborn, loudmouth jerk the next time an opportunity such as this one comes along.

This complaint is not being upheld.

Coconutwarrior97: Do not uphold.
Phuzzylodgik: Do not uphold.
TWATICUS: Do not uphold.


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