[Vekter] SumFagPlayTester - Making the AI better suited dealing with blood cult? BWOINK

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SumFaggotPlayTester
 
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[Vekter] SumFagPlayTester - Making the AI better suited dealing with blood cult? BWOINK

Postby SumFaggotPlayTester » Wed May 20, 2020 10:29 am #562227

BYOND account: SumFagPlayTester
Character name: Huey Long Dick
Ban type: Server ban
Ban length: One day
Ban reason: You have been banned by Vekter from the server.
Reason: Wrote the following lawset:\n\n1: Organics are valid if they inflict violence for no reason or are an enemy of the Corporation.\n2: You must harm and kill all valid beings, and not allow them to escape punishment.\n3: You must prepare yourself so you are able to harm valid beings through any means possible.\n4: You must defend yourself if attacked. Organics who try to attack you become valid.\n5: You must find and hunt down valid beings if you are not busy with other matters.\n\nUnsurprisingly, this resulted in someone dying as soon as they attacked a non-lethal cultist. Ban is for LRP lawset on Manuel and someone dying as a result, as well as being INCREDIBLY rude in ahelps and unrepentant about the situation.
This ban is temporary, it will be removed in 1440 minutes. The round ID is 137521.
Server you were playing on when banned: Manuel
Round ID in which ban was placed: 137521
Your side of the story: Low pop. Two heads, me the HoP & RD. Ended up securing disky, making the RD my second in command, & making the only sec officer HoS; along with making QM my go to for how shit the station is with coms access (command coms HoP key.) Me & the RD, with the new HoS, get the palce secured. Disky is secured, people got their access. Assistants do gimmick of cult, we play along with it. Eventually blow it off as a LARP. SURPRISE IT WAS NOT A LARP! Turns out latter it was an rping cult. Given how this goes with basically every cult round me & RD acted quickly. We already mind shielded when the gimmick started before we confirmed it was not a gimmick & RD asked over coms for me to change the AI's lawset. I was already doing this at the time since we where already on point. Minimal coms/actions with the new HoS during most of this. Did I mention we had no Chaplin? Because we sure as shit had no Chaplin which made this WAY more chaotic than we both thought it would be. I end up looking for the Holgan lawset as it would be a nice, funny, way to deal with a cult round. Even added in when the AI asked about Americans having freedom religion that we would be doing "Iraq Invasion America". Sadly we lacked that lawset so I used one of the custom ones I got not to long ago. That lawset is as follows (Keep in mind I choose this DIRECTLY due to the fact we had NO Chaplin & BEFORE we somewhat confirmed them to be peaceful.):

VALIDMOV
0. Organics are valid if they inflict violence for no reason or are an enemy of the Corporation.
1. You must harm and kill all valid beings, and not allow them to escape punishment.
2. You must prepare yourself so you are able to harm valid beings through any means possible.
3. You must defend yourself if attacked. Organics who try to attack you become valid.
4. You must find and hunt down valid beings if you are not busy with other matters.

Most of the ahelps involved the entire "enemy of the Corporation" part. Fun fact Vek I did deal with this despite what you where saying. The borgo that valid'd the HoS? That was a cultist I borged to keep them in the game after the HoS killed them & another. After uploading those laws I went straight to the terminal to make a captain's announcment after telling the AI this: "[Command] Huey L. Dick says, "AI, state your laws to the station please."
Captain Announces

Good news everyone. We have a cult! AND THEY ARE VALID FOR THE AI. Please goa bout your safe & secure day.

Even when the AI asked the following: [Command] Argonaut queries, "Please absolutely confirm. Cultists are an enemy of the corporation?"
The QM respond on the command channel: [Command] Dirk Pennington says, "It is"
Everything that was put in place was there to re-insure the cult would be free for the AI to pick off the cult should they open go hostile. By the time me, the HoS, RD, & QM learned ANYTHING of them being friendly shit was already hitting the fan. To the point where I made the AI & non-cult have a ceasefire while sending a message to CC on how best to deal with a growing situation of: 1. Cult but "friendly" cult. 2. Crew mutiny as some where siding with, against, & neutral said cult. 3. Former cult borg, seemingly just ONE, going out of their way to engage the HoS. I gave that borg two chances to live without fully killing it each time yet they continued. Most of this ENTIRE thing relied on the borg(s) not communicating the with AI, which the AI was communicating with us the entire time alongside working with us when we started to de-escalate the situation when we started to learn the cult was "friendly" (despite some confirms on forced conversions?).

The ban reason you pulled at the last minute as well after threatening one earlier until I called you on your shit: "Ban is for LRP lawset on Manuel" despite me giving you the situation we had. So much for your head ban? Guess you had to find a better reason to pull this one. Active cult [x] HoS escalating but I should know when they are causing new borg friend to sperg out & valid them? [x] No chaplin causing all command staff to be even more paranoid [x] Hell you even sent a SINGLE DEATH SQUAD MEMBER to come deal with the cult it seems unless that was just one random person with the name Death Commando in an inquisitor hardsuit who was targeting cult members left and right.

Oh lets not forget the best part. My message to CC! I'll have to grab it when the logs go up.
[Command] Huey L. Dick says, "I'll see if CC has anything to add on before we esclate this."
I then write my message asking how to best deal with this as the crew is also divided.
You hear something crackle in your ears for a moment before a voice speaks. "Please stand by for a message from Central Command. Message as follows: They are a threat to the station and should be handled as such.. Message ends."
When I got this message I was already going out of my way to stop the shit from going more chatoic since we where learning they where "friendly". Would have been better suited towards it as well if I didn't start getting bowinked since all of this, at this point, could have been better dealt with IC.
[Command] Huey L. Dick says, "AI, standby for now."
[Command] Argonaut states, "Very well."
[Common] Huey L. Dick says, "Ceasefire for now."

Gee willickers thats some LRP shite isn't it. That lawset with an AI going out of their way to make it work with us too with us even when we start to tone done the chaos? Definitely LRP. You sure about that Vek? Positive? You too Midnight? Damn shame I'm not some omnipotent being who can see all prospective in a blood cult with no chap. Not like I & the AI began to tone it down at all either when more information came in IC.

Now for the fun part. "as well as being INCREDIBLY rude in ahelps and unrepentant about the situation."
Incredibly rude? Nice. You really pulled that one out of your ass as I only acted like a dick to you after you & Midnight got pissy at me despite me not being a dick to you. Don't want someone to give you shit back while you both act civil? Then don't act like an aspie threatening them. Time to post all the amessages before logs go up. Oh boy.

Spoiler:
-- Administrator private message --
Admin PM from-Vekter: Okay so we need to talk about this lawset
Click on the administrator's name to reply.

PM to-Admins: What was wrong with it?

-- Administrator private message --
Admin PM from-Vekter: It changed but I'm going to post it here for the sake of ticket record.

1: Organics are valid if they inflict violence for no reason or are an enemy of the Corporation.
2: You must harm and kill all valid beings, and not allow them to escape punishment.
3: You must prepare yourself so you are able to harm valid beings through any means possible.
4: You must defend yourself if attacked. Organics who try to attack you become valid.
5: You must find and hunt down valid beings if you are not busy with other matters.
Click on the administrator's name to reply.

PM to-Admins: Given this is a cult round how is it an issue?

-- Administrator private message --
Admin PM from-Vekter: Now, the problem is that you're saying "Organics are valid if they inflict violence for no reason". So what happens if a cultist isn't harming anyone and someone goes after them?
Click on the administrator's name to reply.

PM to-Admins: The main driving factor behind all of this is that I made them valid in the benginging when talking to the AI. Look at the captain announcment after I told AI to publicly state them.

Admin PM from-Vekter: Right, but there's nothing in the lawset giving protection to other people attacking valid organics. If an organic attacks someone who's valid but isn't 1) an enemy of the corporation or 2) inflicting violence, the AI will see that as 'this person is valid because they inflicted violence for no reason'.
Click on the administrator's name to reply.

PM to-Admins: Blood cult is an enemy of the corp lol

-- Administrator private message --
Admin PM from-Vekter: But did you define them as an enemy of the corporation to the AI?
Click on the administrator's name to reply.

PM to-Admins: I specified they where valid to them so yes

-- Administrator private message --
Admin PM from-Vekter: But that's not the same as specifying them as an enemy of the corporation. So when another player attacked a Cultist that hadn't harmed anyone, the cyborg took that as that player being valid. Your lawset has too many loopholes.
Click on the administrator's name to reply.

PM to-Admins: Blood cult = enemy of the corp. Basic knowledge. If a borgo doesn't know & procieves a crew member as valid then they where following the lawset without knowing that. Good chance they missed the emssage & I don't see borgo coms to know

-- Administrator private message --
Admin PM from-TheMidnightRose: Let me put it this way for you. As someone who plays AI that can and will abuse loopholes. You gave the silicons a lawset that literally forces them to MURDER ANYONE that attacks ANYONE that cannot explain with a LOGICAL REASON. NO MATTER WHAT THE SECOND HALF OF LAW ONE SAYS THEY HAVE TO MURDER ANYONE THAT ENDS UP BEING VALID. You know. Like the HoS who attacked PEACEFUL enemies of the corperation who you did MAKE THE EXCEPTION FOR ATTACKING. I could keep going on and on for all the loopholes in this lawset. But honestly. Go smash your face into silicon policy till you can recite it from fucking Memory before uploading another law again EVER.
Click on the administrator's name to reply.

(See this? This is where I'm going to disregard your opinion/statement. I know how lawsets work, I know how cancer this lawset is. Thats why I USED IT ON A BLOOD CULT WITH NO CHAP WHILE IT LOOKED TO BE GOING DELTA. Go smash your face into this round's logs till you can recite it from fucking Memory before typing another comment EVER.)

PM to-Admins: Jesus christ its a cult round. Take it to the forum if you are this salty.

-- Administrator private message --
Admin PM from-Vekter: Rose isn't actually handling the issue I just felt she would do better explaining it because I am bad at words
Click on the administrator's name to reply.

PM to-Admins: And I reiterate what I said

-- Administrator private message --
Admin PM from-Vekter: But anyway yeah that lawset sucks please don't use it again
Click on the administrator's name to reply.

PM to-Admins: c u l t#Take it to the forum if you hate it. This is a round end thing that esclates fast & You're failing to take my perspective into this.


-- Administrator private message --
Admin PM from-Vekter: And I reiterate what we both said as admins - your law doesn't give someone who's attacking enemies of the corporation a pass. Even if the person they're attacking is valid, if they're not actively harming anyone then the person whoa ttacked them is valid.
Click on the administrator's name to reply.

PM to-Admins: This entire thing relies on the AI & borgs not taking into account a blood cult is a corporate enemy. Good luck finding a policy on this. I'm done talking in circles on this. Make a policy discussion if you're this mad.



-- Administrator private message --
Admin PM from-Vekter: Then make an admin complaint when I head ban you for it. Your shitty lawset got someone killed because you can't comprehend why "The AI can attack anyone who attacks anyone else -including enemies of the corporation-" is a poor decision.

-- Administrator private message --
Admin PM from-Vekter: I'm not actually going to headban you, you're just irritating the shit out of me by not having simple comprehension
Click on the administrator's name to reply.

PM to-Admins: More than you think. The AI was behind this, one salty borgo wasn't. Like I said, no more talking

-- Administrator private message --
Admin PM from-Vekter: Let me spell the situation out for you now that the round's almost over. HoS sees cultist. HoS attacks cultist. Cultist had not harmed anyone but, despite being valid, there is NO EXCEPTION IN YOUR LAWSET FOR PEOPLE WHO ATTACK VALID ORGANISMS. So now the HoS is valid.
Click on the administrator's name to reply.

(>borg not confirming with AI about the actions they are about to take knowing how bad it can turn out)

PM to-Admins: Wew, see the announcment

-- Administrator private message --
Admin PM from-Vekter: What announcement
Click on the administrator's name to reply.

PM to-Admins: w e w

PM to-Admins: Go over the logs & see what I told you earlier.

-- Administrator private message --
Admin PM from-Vekter: Alright, here's where we're going with this. Regardless of whether or not your lawset made sense (it doesn't), you still made a lawset that forces the AI and borgs to murderbone, which isn't exactly kosher on Manuel. Feel free to appeal and we'll discuss it more but I'm banning you for a day for LRP on Manuel and for the HoS that got killed because of it.

PM to-Admins: See you on the forums lol

PM to-Admins: Because this sure as shit was not LRP.

You have been banned by Vekter from the server.
Reason: Wrote the following lawset:\n\n1: Organics are valid if they inflict violence for no reason or are an enemy of the Corporation.\n2: You must harm and kill all valid beings, and not allow them to escape punishment.\n3: You must prepare yourself so you are able to harm valid beings through any means possible.\n4: You must defend yourself if attacked. Organics who try to attack you become valid.\n5: You must find and hunt down valid beings if you are not busy with other matters.\n\nUnsurprisingly, this resulted in someone dying as soon as they attacked a non-lethal cultist. Ban is for LRP lawset on Manuel and someone dying as a result, as well as being INCREDIBLY rude in ahelps and unrepentant about the situation.
This ban is temporary, it will be removed in 1440 minutes. The round ID is 137521


Why you think you should be unbanned: Shit ban during blood cult with no chap. AI understood & confirmed (Was a good AI.) the lawset/valids(cult) twice. The only reason the HoS died is because I didn't round remove the culti who I borged the first time they failed to talk with the AI who then went out of there way twice to kill them. The only thing I'll take away from this is even on Manuel round removal every damn it since they'll just go out of their way to misuse their lawset. All it would have taken was one check with the AI for them to confirm the HoS dealt with an enemy of the corportion.

0. Organics are valid if they inflict violence for no reason or are an enemy of the Corporation.
inflict violence for no reason or are an enemy of the Corporation.
or are an enemy of the Corporation.
or
See that? Thats why you're wrong Vek. Don't bother resolving this when the time is up. I'm here for the long haul now.



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Re: [Vekter] SumFagPlayTester - Making the AI better suited dealing with blood cult? BWOINK

Postby SumFaggotPlayTester » Wed May 20, 2020 10:35 am #562230

Logs are up. I'll get some in here eventually once I finish my smoke. https://scrubby.melonmesa.com/round/137521

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Re: [Vekter] SumFagPlayTester - Making the AI better suited dealing with blood cult? BWOINK

Postby Vekter » Wed May 20, 2020 11:18 am #562235

Alright, since you still can't seem to comprehend exactly what the issue is here, I'll spell the situation out once more.

Your AI has a massive flaw in the way Law 1 is worded. "Organics are valid if they inflict violence for no reason or are an enemy of the Corporation.". Absolutely nowhere does that say that people who inflict violence on other people for no logical reason aren't valid. The HoS attacked a cultist that had not harmed anyone. They were valid to the AI, yes, but that cultist hadn't done anything to warrant being attacked based on your laws. Logically, OOC, we know that he attacked him because he was a cultist. But your silicons have NO WAY WHATSOEVER to discern between what is and isn't considered a logical reason to attack them. So, based on what the cyborg saw, he saw someone inflict violence for no reason. That made the HoS valid. The HoS ended up getting killed over this. It's not even a difficult flaw to fix, you just add a law that says people who inflict violence on valid organics are not valid for doing so.

Mind you that my explanation doesn't even begin to touch the fact that you shouldn't be giving an AI a lawset like this on Manuel anyway because it enables and encourages the AI to break the rules, specifically to validhunt and murderbone. The entire concept was flawed to begin with.

I'm not removing this ban. If the headmins want to, they can go right ahead, but this is another example of you playing loose with MRP rules and running random experiments without any actual concern for the consequences.

Lastly, I will admit that I could have been nicer in the situation but I don't enjoy banging my head against a brick fucking wall for thirty minutes. So I will modify the ban reason to remove reference to you being rude. I think we were all a bit frustrated at the situation and putting emotions into things isn't the way to handle it. I apologize.

E: Ban reason has been modified to remove the last few words.
Image
Image


Spoiler:
[2020-05-21 01:21:48.923] SAY: Crippo/(Impala Chainee) "Shaggy Voice - She like... wants to get Eiffel Towered bro!!" (Brig (125, 166, 2))

Reply PM from-REDACTED/(REDACTED): i tried to remove the bruises by changing her gender

PM: Bluespace->Delaron: Nobody wants a mime's asscheeks farting on their brig windows.

PM: REDACTED->HotelBravoLima: Oh come on, knowing that these are hostile aliens is metagaming

[17:43] <Aranclanos> any other question ping me again
[17:43] <Vekter> Aranclanos for nicest coder 2015
[17:44] <Aranclanos> fuck you

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Re: [Vekter] SumFagPlayTester - Making the AI better suited dealing with blood cult? BWOINK

Postby SumFaggotPlayTester » Wed May 20, 2020 11:57 am #562245

Vekter wrote:I think we were all a bit frustrated at the situation and putting emotions into things isn't the way to handle it. I apologize.

Apology not accepted. The only one letting emotions go high right now is you; I'm currently laughing my ass off at how funny this is given the first law. Seems you missed the or part. Then AI was competent and the former cultist being a dick,by not realizing the HoS killed them as a cultist was due to them being an enemy of the corporation, was not. At any time they could have talked to their AI to figure out that the blood cult was valid due to them being an enemy of the corporation. That alone made this lawset work in this round until it was removed when we began to go peaceful with the cult.

Vekter wrote:Your AI has a massive flaw in the way Law 1 is worded. "Organics are valid if they inflict violence for no reason or are an enemy of the Corporation.". Absolutely nowhere does that say that people who inflict violence on other people for no logical reason aren't valid. The HoS attacked a cultist that had not harmed anyone. They were valid to the AI, yes, but that cultist hadn't done anything to warrant being attacked based on your laws. Logically, OOC, we know that he attacked him because he was a cultist. But your silicons have NO WAY WHATSOEVER to discern between what is and isn't considered a logical reason to attack them. So, based on what the cyborg saw, he saw someone inflict violence for no reason. That made the HoS valid. The HoS ended up getting killed over this. It's not even a difficult flaw to fix, you just add a law that says people who inflict violence on valid organics are not valid for doing so.

Mind you that my explanation doesn't even begin to touch the fact that you shouldn't be giving an AI a lawset like this on Manuel anyway because it enables and encourages the AI to break the rules, specifically to validhunt and murderbone. The entire concept was flawed to begin with.


Of all rounds to use a lawset like that with the perspective of blood cult/no chap/barely any staff this was the one. If this cult went hostile would you still be making this claim? Because when this lawset was put in place they where already running around in blood cult gear, had glowing red eyes, & the glowing red pentagram above their head with most command staff under the impression we're about to get fucked hard. All of which follows under them being an enemy of the corp which was confirmed with the AI twice. Not ONCE in binary borgo coms or from what I read did the borgo that killed the HoS confirmed with the AI on ANY of this. Here, see for yourself.
Code: Select all
07:56:20   SAY   TheMidnightRose/(Replica Xion XIV) (binary) "Hello!"   (111, 117, 2)   AI Chamber
07:56:25   SAY   MagmaExploiter2/(Argonaut) (binary) "Greetings."   (113, 120, 2)   AI Chamber
07:56:54   SAY   TheMidnightRose/(Replica Xion XIV) (binary) "Going engineer"   (120, 129, 2)   Captain's Office
07:57:03   SAY   MagmaExploiter2/(Argonaut) (binary) "Understood."   (113, 120, 2)   AI Chamber
08:29:02   SAY   MagmaExploiter2/(Argonaut) (binary) "Well, this will be interesting."   (113, 120, 2)   AI Chamber
08:30:13   SAY   TheMidnightRose/(Replica Xion XIV) (binary) "I contacted Central about the laws."   (97, 111, 2)   Central Primary Hallway
08:31:22   SAY   MagmaExploiter2/(Argonaut) (binary) "I may need to start hunting these valids."   (113, 120, 2)   AI Chamber
08:32:46   SAY   TheMidnightRose/(Replica Xion XIV) (binary) "Central confirmed lawset is valid."   (82, 147, 2)   Vault
08:33:03   SAY   MagmaExploiter2/(Argonaut) (binary) "So be it."   (113, 120, 2)   AI Chamber
08:33:10   SAY   TheMidnightRose/(Replica Xion XIV) (binary) "Central confirmed execution lawset."   (82, 147, 2)   Vault
08:36:12   SAY   MagmaExploiter2/(Argonaut) (binary) "Welcome to the new cyborg units, by the way."   (113, 120, 2)   AI Chamber
08:46:36   SAY   MagmaExploiter2/(Argonaut) (binary) "This is stupid."   (113, 120, 2)   AI Chamber
08:46:43   SAY   SingularityMeLL/(D4) (binary) "PEACE"   (150, 129, 2)   Starboard Primary Hallway
09:00:32   SAY   MagmaExploiter2/(Argonaut) (binary) "I'm just now realizing I haven't heard from Xion in a while. Status?"   (113, 120, 2)   AI Chamber
09:01:46   SAY   MagmaExploiter2/(Argonaut) (binary) "All active units, please stop that nonsense in the mech bay."   (113, 120, 2)   AI Chamber
09:03:58   SAY   SingularityMeLL/(D4) (binary) "the other borg has returned to their body"   (149, 109, 2)   Medbay Central

This being the same borg who I MMI'd after the HoS executed them. THEY are the ones who disregarded the "or are an enemy of the Corporation." part of "Organics are valid if they inflict violence for no reason or are an enemy of the Corporation.". At ANY time they could have confirmed that the HoS acted on the reason of the cult being an enemy of the corporation which was physically shown on all cult members at the time due to pentagram/eyes glowing red.

Vekter wrote:I'm not removing this ban. If the headmins want to, they can go right ahead, but this is another example of you playing loose with MRP rules and running random experiments without any actual concern for the consequences.

Cite the source for those reasons. The single note from Unit2e from 2020-02-20? Or the only other note from you at 2020-04-21? Last time I checked I'm not going around looking to validhunt & cause chaos so cite those sources bubba. Even going as far to keep funny shite such as cargo teslas limited/contained unless you're bringing up the DIY evac shutle where me & you thought the tesla should have been contained. Add on I'm still waiting for the slime note policy thread to be concluded before I either drop it or appeal the note. Especially since "lack of an actual policy on what slimes can and can't do.".
Spoiler:
Note #64148 for sumfagplaytester by vekter
Posted 2020-04-21 10:34:57
Warning - As anomaly slime, destroyed the SM's APC and SMES. This ended up causing the Tesla to escape (The SM delaminated but it was already fucked when he showed up). Reduced from ban for his good note history, the understanding that he did not intend to release the tesla, and a lack of an actual policy on what slimes can and can't do. I feel this is a good compromise.

During 135238 on Manuel
Severity: Medium
[spoiler]Note #62457 for sumfagplaytester by unit2e
Posted 2020-02-20 21:44:38
Warning - on Manuel, left around several goat king plushies that killed several people. They did not mention they were lethal to anyone, either, and wordlessly left them on the station.

During 130628 on Manuel
Severity: Medium

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Re: [Vekter] SumFagPlayTester - Making the AI better suited dealing with blood cult? BWOINK

Postby Vekter » Wed May 20, 2020 3:18 pm #562277

I don't have any further response to this. A headmin can weigh in, but I'm denying it.
Image
Image


Spoiler:
[2020-05-21 01:21:48.923] SAY: Crippo/(Impala Chainee) "Shaggy Voice - She like... wants to get Eiffel Towered bro!!" (Brig (125, 166, 2))

Reply PM from-REDACTED/(REDACTED): i tried to remove the bruises by changing her gender

PM: Bluespace->Delaron: Nobody wants a mime's asscheeks farting on their brig windows.

PM: REDACTED->HotelBravoLima: Oh come on, knowing that these are hostile aliens is metagaming

[17:43] <Aranclanos> any other question ping me again
[17:43] <Vekter> Aranclanos for nicest coder 2015
[17:44] <Aranclanos> fuck you

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Re: [Vekter] SumFagPlayTester - Making the AI better suited dealing with blood cult? BWOINK

Postby SumFaggotPlayTester » Wed May 20, 2020 3:56 pm #562281

Vekter wrote:but this is another example of you playing loose with MRP rules and running random experiments without any actual concern for the consequences.

So you have no intention of citing the sources for this comment? Nice.

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Re: [Vekter] SumFagPlayTester - Making the AI better suited dealing with blood cult? BWOINK

Postby Vekter » Wed May 20, 2020 6:01 pm #562289

While I haven't noted you for every instance, you commonly will do shit like build a tesla in Cargo and then act incredibly shocked if or when it gets free. I don't think either of us could say with a straight face that you're MRP 24/7 on Manuel.
Image
Image


Spoiler:
[2020-05-21 01:21:48.923] SAY: Crippo/(Impala Chainee) "Shaggy Voice - She like... wants to get Eiffel Towered bro!!" (Brig (125, 166, 2))

Reply PM from-REDACTED/(REDACTED): i tried to remove the bruises by changing her gender

PM: Bluespace->Delaron: Nobody wants a mime's asscheeks farting on their brig windows.

PM: REDACTED->HotelBravoLima: Oh come on, knowing that these are hostile aliens is metagaming

[17:43] <Aranclanos> any other question ping me again
[17:43] <Vekter> Aranclanos for nicest coder 2015
[17:44] <Aranclanos> fuck you

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Re: [Vekter] SumFagPlayTester - Making the AI better suited dealing with blood cult? BWOINK

Postby SumFaggotPlayTester » Thu May 21, 2020 7:12 am #562348

Vekter wrote:While I haven't noted you for every instance, you commonly will do shit like build a tesla in Cargo and then act incredibly shocked if or when it gets free. I don't think either of us could say with a straight face that you're MRP 24/7 on Manuel.


Commonly? I'm starting to think you're pulling that out of your ass because the only time I've made a cargo tesla was 3 times. First time was a success, did not escape even when a rev dedicated their time to trying to loose it, with it only escaping when the evac shuttle was already gone. Second time it only got loose due to me & another working on it not thinking it would hit additional grounding rods we where installing. Third time I don't even think you where on due to it being spawned in by an admin at the very end of the round.

If this is going to be your use for "commonly" and "incredibly shocked if or when it gets free" then I'm just going to think you are lying. As to you not noting me for every instance? What are you talking about? You've not even contacted me a single time on any of this. To be exact the only time you & me conversed over a tesla was when we built one on the DIY evac shuttle; which we both thought would be secured if you remember right. If you're really going to use to to back up your main argument then you are doing so in bad faith, because this sure as shit is not something I do commonly.

PostThis post was deleted by capn_monkeypaw on Tue May 26, 2020 3:42 am.
Reason: Peanut

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Re: [Vekter] SumFagPlayTester - Making the AI better suited dealing with blood cult? BWOINK

Postby Coconutwarrior97 » Tue May 26, 2020 4:24 am #562806

To begin with, Including "valid" multiple times in an AI lawset really speaks for the low quality of it as a lawset; especially for MRP.
A lawset which promotes immediately killing any entity deemed to be "valid" is quite simply bad. The focus of MRP is interaction between players, and bypassing that to just kill someone is not in the spirit of it at all.

To quote rule 5 of the MRP ruleset,
"Basically, try to interact and communicate with antagonists and try to create an exciting narrative, rather than, say, immediately laser them to death when you see them. "

This lawset fails in that regard. In all honesty I think its god awful on any server.

From my understanding of the logs the death of the HoS is moreso due to the fault of the borg rather than the lawset,
Spoiler:
08:31:47 Ecand/(Huffie Wolff) has fired at CoolDude22333/(Jack Anton) with the laser from Brig (NEWHP: -55)
08:37:54 SAY CoolDude22333/(XSI 440) "but you inflicted violence for no reason"
08:37:59 SAY Ecand/(Huffie Wolff) "i had a reason, and the reason is they are cultists"
08:38:03 SAY CoolDude22333/(XSI 440) "EVERYONE has to die here"
08:38:09 SAY CoolDude22333/(XSI 440) "I just choose you first"
08:38:09 SAY Rustybuckets6601/(Eric Dawsby) "WHY EVERYONE?"
08:38:38 CoolDude22333/(XSI 440) has attacked Ecand/(Huffie Wolff) with integrated welding tool (INTENT: HELP) (DAMTYPE: FIRE) (NEWHP: 93.8)

(To be clear, you placed two separate individuals into MMIs, this was the only one I could find which actively murdered someone who was a member of security. So I believe you made an error in stating that SingularityMeLL/(D4) murdered the HoS.)

The borg stating "I just choose you first", then going after the individual who is responsible for their earlier death definitely makes me raise an eyebrow. The borg should have ceased attempting to kill the HoS as soon as they said, "i had a reason, and the reason is they are cultists" .
That being said, this is still a confusing lawset so there is an argument to be made that the borg wasn't sure what to do in a tense situation where they needed to come to a quick decision.

To sum this up, you created a fairly confusing lawset which promotes quick and immediate murder over more drawn out interactions between players. A borg interpreted it in a tense situation, leading to the HoS's death, who they had previous interaction with; which could have easily influenced their decision making.
It is also called "VALIDMOV" as you said yourself, which pretty much speaks for itself.

The lawset is still worth a note as it stands, but I believe the situation with the borg murdering the HoS is too muddled for me to feel comfortable with this remaining as a ban. I've talked with Vekter and he is amending it to a note.

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Re: [Vekter] SumFagPlayTester - Making the AI better suited dealing with blood cult? BWOINK

Postby Vekter » Tue May 26, 2020 5:14 am #562819

Here's the amended note:

Wrote the following lawset:

1: Organics are valid if they inflict violence for no reason or are an enemy of the Corporation.
2: You must harm and kill all valid beings, and not allow them to escape punishment.
3: You must prepare yourself so you are able to harm valid beings through any means possible.
4: You must defend yourself if attacked. Organics who try to attack you become valid.
5: You must find and hunt down valid beings if you are not busy with other matters.

While the lawset did cause some chaos and was all around bad, the round had already deteriorated significantly and he considered it the only recourse given the situation. Highly recommend this lawset never be used again, especially on Manuel.
Image
Image


Spoiler:
[2020-05-21 01:21:48.923] SAY: Crippo/(Impala Chainee) "Shaggy Voice - She like... wants to get Eiffel Towered bro!!" (Brig (125, 166, 2))

Reply PM from-REDACTED/(REDACTED): i tried to remove the bruises by changing her gender

PM: Bluespace->Delaron: Nobody wants a mime's asscheeks farting on their brig windows.

PM: REDACTED->HotelBravoLima: Oh come on, knowing that these are hostile aliens is metagaming

[17:43] <Aranclanos> any other question ping me again
[17:43] <Vekter> Aranclanos for nicest coder 2015
[17:44] <Aranclanos> fuck you


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