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Cobby wrote:the only official ruling on the rules pages is "Do not self-terminate to prevent a traitor from completing the "Steal a functioning AI" objective. "
Cobby wrote:the only official ruling on the rules pages is "Do not self-terminate to prevent a traitor from completing the "Steal a functioning AI" objective. "
Timberpoes wrote:There's also "AI suiciding to prevent subversion" on https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Headmin_Rulings from uh... 2016. KorPhaeron chimed in on this topic viewtopic.php?f=33&t=8376#p221790 with "Should be bannable not to [suicide if you're about to be subverted]" - Although clearly tongue-in-cheek because I suspect we didn't go around banning AIs that didn't suicide when knowingly faced with subversion in the end.
Headmin Ruling's wrote:Context: If an AI knows it will be subverted and cause human harm, can it suicide? Example, clock cultists breaking into core, desword traitor in upload about to subvert, etc. It's allowed. He says it should be bannable not to, but you won't get banned for not doing so, it's up to the player.
Stickymayhem wrote:Given that the middle option is the only one that doesn't need weird rulings and interpretations, I think it's reasonable to make that the rule. It lines up with other "don't deny antagonists all opportunities" rules we have. A perfect asimov AI would also make atmos less sabotagable at roundstart, but that's metagaming.
Tlaltecuhtli wrote:if you kill yourself while being subverted i think you should just ask admins to offer your free antag to ghosts lol, being subverted doesnt mean you cant be law changed anymore, if you harm alarm "evil man uploading evil laws" there is a good chance that a roboticist will print an upload and swing you back into the crew side.
Cobby wrote:There is a fourth option where AIs have the choice to suicide or not, but they cannot use the OOC verb to do so since that is not the purpose of it.
The suicide verb is to ooc state you do not want to play this character anymore (which is why it prevents revives), it should not be used as an insta-deny tool. AIs who want to suicide for the sole purpose of following their laws should use the APC shutdown method.
XDTM wrote:Tlaltecuhtli wrote:if you kill yourself while being subverted i think you should just ask admins to offer your free antag to ghosts lol, being subverted doesnt mean you cant be law changed anymore, if you harm alarm "evil man uploading evil laws" there is a good chance that a roboticist will print an upload and swing you back into the crew side.
The pro-suicide argument is that according to the laws you should suicide rather than allow any potential harm coming from you. So even if you can be turned back afterwards, strictly following asimov implies that suicide is necessary.
Tlaltecuhtli wrote:XDTM wrote:Tlaltecuhtli wrote:if you kill yourself while being subverted i think you should just ask admins to offer your free antag to ghosts lol, being subverted doesnt mean you cant be law changed anymore, if you harm alarm "evil man uploading evil laws" there is a good chance that a roboticist will print an upload and swing you back into the crew side.
The pro-suicide argument is that according to the laws you should suicide rather than allow any potential harm coming from you. So even if you can be turned back afterwards, strictly following asimov implies that suicide is necessary.
my argument is that its not 100% true it will lead to harm as your laws could be fixed before any harm happens by the roboticist, so the excuse for suiciding to prevent future harm isnt valid because the harm might not happen at all (this is a case where you have no powers over your upload)
zxaber wrote:Code-wise, we could just remove the suicide verb from silicons. Ghosting doesn't deny the AI theft objective, I believe, so if you're in some traitor's pocket and it's boring as all hell, you could probably ghost out without issue.
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