!!MSO ran out of weed!! (The cooler August 2021 Drama Megathread)

[Rohen_Tahir]

It is time for head coders accept a new paradigm where they sit under the host, as head admins do.

Things can not continue as things once have. I will continue to get frustrated at feeling powerless in matters involving coderbus until that frustration leads me to abandon all protocol, as it did today.

The solution is obvious.

?

[Anuv]

MSO is completely correct and well within his rights to crack down on the coders.

[terranaut]

C*ders have gone unchecked for way too long. Long live the king.

[Super Aggro Crag]

gimme a quick run down

[terranaut]

gimme a quick run down

mso declares himself headcoder because fuck coders, coders/codejannies are seething.

[Super Aggro Crag]

good fuck them they're all fucking retards

mso actually shovels money into the internet furnace keeping this shithole running if the coders want to piss and shit and fart themselves and declare themselves NO LONGER CODING FOR THE /tg/BASE YOU HAVE TO FORK they can be replaced by any other digg-using dipshit willing to hammer their keyboard at a 25 year old game engine in exchange for attention

one of the coderpeasants wants to start their own server? feel fucking free, enjoy having to playtest your own shit for once instead of forcing it on the noble Playerbase

[Gigapuddi420]

to quote a great admin:





lol

[Timonk]

If MSO forks i get another chance at coding for tg

[Armhulen]

Sounds like you can either cater to the population that has grown and thrived with the current development or you could cater to people who have entirely stopped playing but promise that if you do what they say they will surely play

If MSO forks i get another chance at coding for tg

this is a good example of a funny promise

[Shadowflame909]

Sounds like you can either cater to the population that has grown and thrived with the current development or you could cater to people who have entirely stopped playing but promise that if you do what they say they will surely play

If MSO forks i get another chance at coding for tg

this is a good example of a funny promise

I miss ash drake xenobio end game ((

[Armhulen]

Sounds like you can either cater to the population that has grown and thrived with the current development or you could cater to people who have entirely stopped playing but promise that if you do what they say they will surely play

If MSO forks i get another chance at coding for tg

this is a good example of a funny promise

I miss ash drake xenobio end game ((

xenobio's been waiting for that special someone to spice it up (and i'm not just talking about slapping a megafauna to the end of the progression)

[TheMythicGhost]

gimme a quick run down

mso declares himself headcoder because fuck coders, coders/codejannies are seething.

About time too. Hopefully he doesn't cave on this one. I mean what are they going to do, host their own server? Okay, good luck having to manage the server, codebase, and playerbase. Good luck having to manage remote user access. Good luck getting a full-time free hosting schema, and support technician to have the thing as a passion project. Not to mention, say bye bye to the forums that are hosted on his domain too. He completely has them by the balls, and if they want to leave, okay sure go ahead. It's about time someone fucking reined in oranges, he's been out of line for way too long.

[Autismal]

monarch weed man time

[ShadowDimentio]

Sounds like you can either cater to the population that has grown and thrived with the current development or you could cater to people who have entirely stopped playing but promise that if you do what they say they will surely play

If MSO forks i get another chance at coding for tg

this is a good example of a funny promise

The community's grown, thrived and then been run off by the degrading quality of jannies or, much more often, the fact that the coders are living and dying in their own delusions. Look no further than here:



The idea that the downstreams like TG coders when they're constantly having to plug holes by reverting shit PR after shit PR the retarded coders upstream keep merging is laughable. None of you hacks could make it anywhere outside oranges' domain and, even disregarding the matter of payment, definitely couldn't handle dealing with a server company who'll without a doubt be much less agreeable than MSO,

Basically, you're getting what you fucking deserve coderbus: A boot to the back.

[Fishimun]

LAUNCH /TG/station classic, no changes

[Super Aggro Crag]

i dont even think oranges is the problem this time

[ShadowDimentio]

If MSO had kicked him out years ago over the slapcrafting removal PR we'd be looking at a completely different server today. He's fostered the sentiment among coders that they're the most important people on the server, even more so than the damn host, and are so cocky that they think they can make demands such as "fork or step down".

[Malkraz]

i just wanna see someone get btfo i dont care who

[Yenwodyah]

Holy based, fork it fork it fork it

[TheMythicGhost]

If MSO had kicked him out years ago over the slapcrafting removal PR we'd be looking at a completely different server today. He's fostered the sentiment among coders that they're the most important people on the server, even more so than the damn host, and are so cocky that they think they can make demands such as "fork or step down".

"Fork or step down" hopefully ends up as "Please continue hosting for us, we're sorry!" or silence, because the new hosting of the server was riddled with holes.

[Malkraz]

looks like the consesus is coders get btfo

[sinfulbliss]

Here is a summary of the drama for anyone who doesn't feel like reading 4 pages of Discord discussions:

- timberpoes (maintainer) says emogi PRs are no-no
- Botany PR closed for having a bee emogi in title
- MSO pissed people have to reopen PRs instead of just editing
- MSO threatens to make himself headcoder to rectify
- Timper says MSO's attitude is making it unfun to be a coder
- MSO apologizes for getting heated and opts to instead make a maintainer guideline to "not close PRs needlessly"
- maintainers become outraged MSO speedmerged these guidelines by himself without consulting them first
- headcoder reverts oranges' creation of "write to repo" team for MSO since self-merging is a no-no
- MSO disables keyholders until they accept him as head-headcoder to avoid frustrations like these
- maintainers argue codebase is independent from the server, MSO is head of server not of codebase
- headcoder suggests MSO steps down if he doesnt like that
- MSO says "nah i'm head-headcoder now, it'll be fine"
- headcoder says "fork or step down, i can be host in the meantime btw"
- a few maintainers go on strike until MSO relinquishes headcoder role

The threat to fork the codebase, forcing Host to step down, over what comes down to a simple speedmerged maintainer guideline change is kind of insane to me, especially since it was created in the first place as a concession from MSO instead of making himself headcoder. It should have been accepted as the concession it was but now it's a standoff. Also seems to me the Host is head of the server which includes the codebase so he's within his right to merge his own changes within reason.

[Malkraz]

can a codetist explain to me what leverage they even have against MSO here

[TheMythicGhost]

Also seems to me the Host is head of the server which includes the codebase so he's within his right to merge his own changes within reason.

This is the key here. He is hosting it. He has put all the effort into setting up, maintaining, and hosting the CDN required for things like the forums, the site (including the live trackers), and the gameplay servers themselves. He has the final say in anything related to things hosted through him (for free for the end users I might add). If he doesn't like how things are being run while he is hosting for the codebase, then the coders either change what he wanted changed or leave, he isn't required to even compromise like he has multiple times in the past, sometimes fucking himself over to appease the leeches.

[TheMythicGhost]

can a codetist explain to me what leverage they even have against MSO here

None, if he ever stopped hosting this, he's actually freeing up time and resources. It would quite literally be beneficial to stop hosting for TGstation.

[Fhaxaris]

Nope, i'm leading by example, as the new head-headcoder, starting now. Time to look forward

team mso

[Pandarsenic]

- headcoder reverts oranges' creation of "write to repo" team for MSO since self-merging is a no-no
- MSO disables keyholders until they accept him as head-headcoder to avoid frustrations like these
- maintainers argue codebase is independent from the server, MSO is head of server not of codebase

- headcoder suggests MSO steps down if he doesnt like that
- MSO says "nah i'm head-headcoder now, it'll be fine"
- headcoder says "fork or step down, i can be host in the meantime btw"
- a few maintainers go on strike until MSO relinquishes headcoder role

I don't have a problem with most coders but my official stance is "talk shit, get hit, have fun hosting your not-/tg/ servers you fucking babies

I'm thrilled that someone finally called out "Codebase is independent of the server" and "fork or fall in line" shit by exposing the hypocrisy.

Do you get to be keyholders on the server because of your role in the codebase, or is the codebase independent of the server? Which is it?

[terranaut]

Sounds like you can either cater to the population that has grown and thrived with the current development or you could cater to people who have entirely stopped playing but promise that if you do what they say they will surely play

Or you could just work towards the project you personally think is the best version of it instead of trying to cater to the biggest amount of people. There is literally no need to do that.

[Farquaar]

Does this mean we can finally remove felinids?

[Tlaltecuhtli]

Sounds like you can either cater to the population that has grown and thrived with the current development or you could cater to people who have entirely stopped playing but promise that if you do what they say they will surely play

Or you could just work towards the project you personally think is the best version of it instead of trying to cater to the biggest amount of people. There is literally no need to do that.

they will add furry races

[terranaut]

Sounds like you can either cater to the population that has grown and thrived with the current development or you could cater to people who have entirely stopped playing but promise that if you do what they say they will surely play

Or you could just work towards the project you personally think is the best version of it instead of trying to cater to the biggest amount of people. There is literally no need to do that.

they will add furry races

Somehow I don't think MSO took the helm to get furry races in.

[Stickymayhem]

I've never seen MSO be wrong about the game or codebase when it comes to fights like this in 8 years

It's his server and I've always been fucking glad of that.

[Anuv]

Sounds like you can either cater to the population that has grown and thrived with the current development or you could cater to people who have entirely stopped playing but promise that if you do what they say they will surely play

Or you could just work towards the project you personally think is the best version of it instead of trying to cater to the biggest amount of people. There is literally no need to do that.

they will add furry races

[Kendrickorium]

I will side with the side that puts disco inferno and oh hi daniel back in

[Mothblocks]

I will side with the side that puts disco inferno and oh hi daniel back in

after prefs menu i need to spend the less than 3 hours it would take to put these on emag only

the ce byos pr was the catalyst for a nice system for this

[BONERMASTER]

I will side with the side that puts disco inferno and oh hi daniel back in

I too will participate in this civil war for whoever brings back the disco inferno.


With warm regards
-BONERMASTER

[actioninja]

I've never seen MSO be wrong about the game or codebase when it comes to fights like this in 8 years

It's his server and I've always been fucking glad of that.

he is frequently wrong and frequently gets steamrolled when he's being a big baby likes this

can a codetist explain to me what leverage they even have against MSO here

keyholders, coders, and admins do the overwhelming amount of work actually running the server on a day to day basis.

[Malkraz]

can a codetist explain to me what leverage they even have against MSO here

keyholders, coders, and admins do the overwhelming amount of work actually running the server on a day to day basis.

ok but are u not way more replaceable than the host

[actioninja]

can a codetist explain to me what leverage they even have against MSO here

keyholders, coders, and admins do the overwhelming amount of work actually running the server on a day to day basis.

ok but are u not way more replaceable than the host

As an entire team of experienced developers? No.
MSO is only difficult to replace because he has designed his entire overengineered server infrastructure to have him as the absolute arbiter with no backup or equal powers. He is important almost entirely because he has set himself up to be important by being the exclusive holder of some specific keys. We both have people with similar skillsets to him as well as people with the resources to run things. It would be a shame to lose him because he does have a lot of experience and has done a lot, but he's not a magic critical lynchpin of the entire operation.

[Malkraz]

can a codetist explain to me what leverage they even have against MSO here

keyholders, coders, and admins do the overwhelming amount of work actually running the server on a day to day basis.

ok but are u not way more replaceable than the host

As an entire team of experienced developers? No.
MSO is only difficult to replace because he has designed his entire overengineered server infrastructure to have him as the absolute arbiter with no backup or equal powers. He is important almost entirely because he has set himself up to be important by being the exclusive holder of some specific keys. We both have people with similar skillsets to him as well as people with the resources to run things. It would be a shame to lose him because he does have a lot of experience and has done a lot, but he's not a magic critical lynchpin of the entire operation.

I see, but is it really "all of us vs. him", or just a subset of coders that would jump ship?

[actioninja]

lmao you are such a fucking clown

stay mad, rent free, etc.

I see, but is it really "all of us vs. him", or just a subset of coders that would jump ship?

At minimum pretty much all maintainers and a significant amount of "core contributor" non maintainers would. I'm not sure if a true "fork" would happen and everyone would jump ship to it but I could see the majority of active devs heading for any kind of greener pasture. And as much as people like to whine about how coders ruin the game, the overwhelming majority of work done by most regular contributors and pretty much all maintainers is bug fixes, refactors, and code review. It's not something that would be easy to find replacements for, and is in fact something many other servers consistently struggle to find the right people for.

[Fhaxaris]

keyholders, coders, and admins do the overwhelming amount of work actually running the server on a day to day basis.

what do keyholders and coders do on the day-to-day, I legitimately don't know. i thought keyholders just had the ability to restart the server if something bad happened.

[Flatulent]

ok so when exactly is tg going to mean “terrific governance” again

[Flatulent]

lmao you are such a fucking clown

stay mad, rent free, etc.

I see, but is it really "all of us vs. him", or just a subset of coders that would jump ship?

At minimum pretty much all maintainers and a significant amount of "core contributor" non maintainers would. I'm not sure if a true "fork" would happen and everyone would jump ship to it but I could see the majority of active devs heading for any kind of greener pasture. And as much as people like to whine about how coders ruin the game, the overwhelming majority of work done by most regular contributors and pretty much all maintainers is bug fixes, refactors, and code review. It's not something that would be easy to find replacements for, and is in fact something many other servers consistently struggle to find the right people for.

perhaps you could make a signed petition to back up your claims

[Fishimun]

I'm all for tyranny, hail to the weed king. c*ders bad

[Flatulent]

i agree, coders have repeatedly pissed everyone off for months so im not exactly sure who they’re gonna code their fork for

[actioninja]

keyholders, coders, and admins do the overwhelming amount of work actually running the server on a day to day basis.

what do keyholders and coders do on the day-to-day, I legitimately don't know. i thought keyholders just had the ability to restart the server if something bad happened.

keyholders: reset things if the watchdog craps out, manage testmerges, occasionally deal with server configs if headmins are occupied, deal with boring technical crap like managing byond version on servers and so on
coders: handle and patch critical security flaws, help admins with technical problems and/or cleaning up when they screw up varedits, generally live investigating and fixing major issues with the game

and that's more just like the literal game servers, there's a lot to be said about how much any coder actually affects the game experience. I mean look at the amount of malding in this thread at coders, if they didn't matter and didn't do anything it would just literally be yelling at clouds.

perhaps you could make a signed petition to back up your claims

[Fhaxaris]

I bet on MSO not moving and eventually getting what he wants because that would be really funny.

[Timonk]

I bet on MSO not moving and eventually getting what he wants because that would be really funny.

like a toddler throwing himself on the ground and throwing a tantrum

[BONERMASTER]

@actioninja, would you be willing to reinstate the disco inferno shuttle?


With warm regards
-BONERMASTER