[Shaps/Ryll] Iamgoofball - Lying Via Omission

Locked
User avatar
iamgoofball
Github User
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 5:50 pm
Byond Username: Iamgoofball
Github Username: Iamgoofball
Reddit Username: iamgoofball

[Shaps/Ryll] Iamgoofball - Lying Via Omission

Post by iamgoofball » #619225

When and where this incident occured (Game Server, forums, Discord): game server(sybil) and discord
Byond account and character name OR Discord name: iamgoofball
Admin: Shaps
ROUND ID HERE IF APPLICABLE: https://scrubby.melonmesa.com/round/173013
Detailed summary:
Relevant tickets:
https://atlantaned.space/banbus/ticket/67015635042b9550
https://atlantaned.space/banbus/ticket/10e54a63779da161
So, two days ago, I asked in ahelp on sybil about running a families 4.0 test on LRP. I've been getting asked by players for months now from Sybil, Terry, Basil, etc. about if Families is returning to LRP. I've told them no, because I don't control that, and because I don't know if Families 4.0 after its latest update is good or not for LRP. However, for 10 years, I've advocated for "test it and see if it works". So, I figured I'd test it and see if it works.
Image
When I ahelped to ask about it, I got told this. Sure, okay, that's reasonable. Folks not up for a test today, so I'll schedule something in advance with admins who are willing to be there and such.
So, I went to the #help channel and reached out to event staff and sybil-mins to ask about if they would run it.
Image
I had two takers, Fikou and Sacko.
Fikou and I tried to schedule it, but we got pranked by whenisgood.com not actually respecting timezones like it said it would, and so we deferred to sacko to avoid scheduling conflicts due to the large timezone gap between myself and fikou.

Fast forward two days later, and sacko and I are talking about how to do the setup for the test for the next round, when they drop on me that shaps is blocking the test.
I ahelp about this, because what the fuck, i scheduled this in advance, waited two whole days, and then got told "actually no" anyways.
Image
This time, for a completely different reason than what they gave me before? They're hiding behind mothblocks saying no as a reason to deny it.

At this point, I'm furious. I made the mistake of believing them when they told me "actually we're just tired rn sorry :(" the first time, and apparently wasted my time following the correct processes and scheduling things in advance. And I was rewarded for that by finding out they lied via omission.

I take to the help channel to ask for headmins because what the fuck, come on Shaps, what the hell. I bring up that they're hiding behind mothblocks on this, and they reply that it's policy.
Image
At this point, I'm pissed, because they've accidentally admitted to two things here.
1. they intended to deny the families run the original time, and (ironically) went around to other staffers to get an excuse for when I came back after debunking their first excuse.
2. after two days of knowing that they would deny me running the families event, and the fact that in the original ahelp I told them I would reach out to admins to schedule it, they did not feel the need to inform me of this decision

Then, they drop this insane accusation on me, that was immediately debunked:
Image
There's a lot to unpack here.
Firstly, it is not admin shopping to, upon being told by an admin "sorry the people logged in right now are tired and dont want to do this tonight, we just wanna relax", go to the dedicated ask for admins channel and ask if there are any admins interested in scheduling the test for a later date.

Admin shopping is when you are given a ruling and then try to circumvent that ruling by asking another equal ranked admin to bypass it for you. I wasn't given a ruling, I was given "sorry we're tired tonight and dont wanna do this rn". That's not a ruling in any way, shape, or form. Shaps has been on the team long enough to know damn well what a ruling is and isn't, and this wasn't a ruling.

Secondly, who the fuck cares if someone is/isn't a "sybil" admin. Admins are admins. They admin all the servers. Sacko's rank doesn't say Sybil Game Admin, it says Game Admin. It is incredibly fucking insulting to the rest of your administration team to imply they're not allowed to admin on a server that you're supposed to be sharing with the rest of the 100+ admins.

Were you going to hop onto Terry and say no if we did this at Terry instead of Sybil? Why is there a difference between servers administratively, Shaps? Is that what you're admitting here?

When this gets debunked, they switch to their final, third excuse:
Image
1. Families is a conversion mode. It works better when there are more players available. I find it incredibly hard to believe Shaps doesn't know this as they're also a coder.
2. Accusing me incorrectly of "hijacking" a round is insane, it's not hijacking a round to test a gamemode. What the hell kind of logic is this?
3. It's not my "personal project", it's the fucking codebase's project. Families is a gamemode on the codebase. As a game designer and coder working on this codebase, it's literally my job to conduct and oversee tests like this if I want to be a responsible developer.
Every part of this statement Shaps made is just absurd and inconsistent with reality.

This entire conversation was like talking to a gish galloping player in ahelps. Every time an incorrect point was debunked, they'd just ignore it and jump right to the next three incorrect points.

Players don't get to pull this crap, so why do admins?

Shaps was directly informed by me two days prior that I would be attempting to schedule a test, via ahelps. They had a whole 48 hours to go "hey you cant run families at all, i will block it".

They did not. They waited until the last minute to do so.

This was incredibly fucked up behavior, and completely ruined my night and my testing plans for the evening because I tried to follow the correct procedure and do the right thing and get my gamemode tested on LRP with an admin who volunteered to oversee the test.

If Shaps didn't want to oversee a Families test, they could have hit the big red X and let the admin who volunteered to oversee it do so. However, they refused, for reasons unknown, and instead chose to shit up my night with their crap.

This was, frankly, unacceptable on all levels. I tried to do my job as a responsible game mode designer and got told I'm in the wrong for doing so. What the hell kind of system is this?
User avatar
Vekter
In-Game Admin
Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 10:25 pm
Byond Username: Vekter
Location: Fucking around with the engine.

Re: [Shaps/Ryll] Iamgoofball - Lying Via Omission

Post by Vekter » #619237

I'm not certain if it's an official position or not, but I've certainly heard more than just Shaps talking about only having Families on MRP because it's an RP-centric game mode.

It's also worth noting that it generally results in a lot of chaos and bad moods when run on high population rounds as many people don't enjoy the game mode.

E: I may also be incorrect about the last statement as I haven't been present for the latest tests. I'm just giving a reason as to why Shaps may have brought this up.
Last edited by Vekter on Sun Nov 14, 2021 7:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
Image
Image
Image
Spoiler:
Reply PM from-REDACTED/(REDACTED): i tried to remove the bruises by changing her gender

PM: Bluespace->Delaron: Nobody wants a mime's asscheeks farting on their brig windows.

PM: REDACTED->HotelBravoLima: Oh come on, knowing that these are hostile aliens is metagaming

[17:43] <Aranclanos> any other question ping me again
[17:43] <Vekter> Aranclanos for nicest coder 2015
[17:44] <Aranclanos> fuck you
User avatar
Jonathan Gupta
Joined: Sun Feb 21, 2021 10:16 pm
Byond Username: BallastMonsterGnarGnar
Location: The Corner

Re: [Shaps/Ryll] Iamgoofball - Lying Via Omission

Post by Jonathan Gupta » #619238

Vekter wrote: Sun Nov 14, 2021 7:29 am t's also worth noting that it generally results in a lot of chaos and bad moods when run on high population rounds as many people don't enjoy the game mode.
Not peanuting,

A lot of people have been asking if families is going to run on LRP(Lots are interested and don't wanna play MRP) which he has mentioned
high pop is better for things like revs and produces better results which he has also mentioned if you run families on bagil it's probably not gonna be a good test.
User avatar
iamgoofball
Github User
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 5:50 pm
Byond Username: Iamgoofball
Github Username: Iamgoofball
Reddit Username: iamgoofball

Re: [Shaps/Ryll] Iamgoofball - Lying Via Omission

Post by iamgoofball » #619239

Vekter wrote: Sun Nov 14, 2021 7:29 am I'm not certain if it's an official position or not, but I've certainly heard more than just Shaps talking about only having Families on MRP because it's an RP-centric game mode.
Yeah. It's all fine and good to be concerned about that, but the whole point here was to actually get some definitive data on the Families 4.0 update vs LRP, which I brought up in the very first ahelp.
User avatar
Shaps-cloud
In-Game Game Master
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2014 4:25 am
Byond Username: Shaps

Re: [Shaps/Ryll] Iamgoofball - Lying Via Omission

Post by Shaps-cloud » #619278

I never told sacko he couldn't do it, if he really wanted to run the event he could have ignored me and done it, I would've simply disconnected and let the round play out. I expressed strong disapproval of the event while talking with sacko, who was clearly unaware that running families on LRP was such a contentious issue, and he decided not to run it. I never pulled rank or forbade it, I expressed strong disapproval in private admin channels when he came to me asking for help setting it up, and he deferred on the matter. The adminshopping comment was incorrect on my part, as I thought goof had specifically chosen sacko to approach because he thought sacko would be more agreeable, but only after did I learn that he had approached the events team (which wasn't even formed to run events on the main servers, it was formed to run large scale events like the toolbox tourney and seasonal balls) and that's how he got in contact with sacko. That was a result of me jumping to conclusions, but even with that, at no point did I come anywhere close to breaking the admin code of conduct or guidelines in my behavior. If headmins have any further questions on the matter, I'll respond promptly.
P.S. Shoot Dr. Allen on sight and dissolve his body in acid. Don't burn it.
Image
User avatar
iamgoofball
Github User
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 5:50 pm
Byond Username: Iamgoofball
Github Username: Iamgoofball
Reddit Username: iamgoofball

Re: [Shaps/Ryll] Iamgoofball - Lying Via Omission

Post by iamgoofball » #619287

Shaps-cloud wrote: Sun Nov 14, 2021 10:43 pm That was a result of me jumping to conclusions, but even with that, at no point did I come anywhere close to breaking the admin code of conduct or guidelines in my behavior.
Not only did you:
1. not apologize for lying to me repeatedly
2. not address how you tried to throw mothblocks under the bus
3. not address how you making up non-existent policy about Families and trying to cite it
4. not address how you had two whole days to contact me and say you were blocking Families on LRP, then refused to do so and made no attempt to do so.

But you also just admitted you used your authority as a long time admin to lean on Sacko. When a senior admin """expresses strong disapproval""" at a lower ranked admin, you are inherently using your authority as a higher up admin to shut down the test.
Shaps-cloud wrote: Sun Nov 14, 2021 10:43 pm I expressed strong disapproval of the event and sacko, clearly being unaware that running families on LRP was such a contentious issue, decided not to run it. I never pulled rank or forbade it, I expressed strong disapproval in private admin channels when he came to me asking for help setting it up, and he deferred on the matter.
Frankly, I don't believe a single word of what you're saying given how interested Sacko was in running the test until you proceeded to step in.

Which you had a full choice to not do, by the way.

At any point you could have hit the big red X in the corner. You chose not to, and instead went out of your way to stop the test.

ADDITIONALLY, if you're going to cite conversations in your defense, you need to include those conversations, including your specific statements, or it's not admissible as evidence. You've proven unreliable enough as a narrator via the multiple clear cut cases of you lying your ass off that you can't be trusted at your word anymore.

There was not a single apology for your bad faith lying behavior in your entire post, and you literally just went "I didn't technically break the written rules :)".

Fuck off with this garbage. You know better, Shaps.
Last edited by iamgoofball on Sun Nov 14, 2021 11:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
dragomagol
In-Game Head Admin
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2020 11:04 pm
Byond Username: Dragomagol

Re: [Shaps/Ryll] Iamgoofball - Lying Via Omission

Post by dragomagol » #620593

The primary complaint here appears to be regarding Shaps pressuring or disallowing another admin from running Families on LRP at your request. Looking over the logs of asay from that round, however, we can find no evidence to support this. All of the statements made by Shaps were either them explaining their reasoning for not wanting to do it themselves or expressing a lack of obligation to run the game mode.
[2021-11-14 02:39:33.251] ADMINPRIVATE: ASAY: Shaps/(Beatrix Abode) "i&#39;m gonna be honest i told him no when he asked me to run it last night because families is always a disaster that no one knows how to play on LRP, and we really have no obligation to him to let him hijack the server for possibly upwards of an hour just so he can run a gamemode that is purposely disabled on here" (Arrival Shuttle Hallway (152,191,2))
The final decision to not push the button was made by Sacko of their own volition.
[2021-11-14 02:54:01.608] ADMINPRIVATE: ASAY: Sacko/(Alonzo Moncada) "sorry shaps i didn&#39;t know this would cause a fuss here. I won&#39;t follow through with this" (Emergency Shuttle (215,80,1))
The only objection we took to Shaps' reasoning here was that goof was adminshopping, which they have admitted was incorrect in this complaint.

For admins, full logs can be found here:
https://tgstation13.org/raw-logs/sybil/ ... 3/game.log

Headmin Votes:
Dragomagol: Do not uphold
RaveRadbury: Do not uphold
NamelessFairy: Do not uphold
Help improve my neural network by giving me feedback!

Image
Spoiler:
Image
Locked

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users