Allow operating computers to work with stasis beds again

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Allow operating computers to work with stasis beds again

Post by WineAllWine » #620267

I think the idea was to make people use operating theatres and operating tables over stasis beds, but... this doesn't seem to have worked. People just only use the basic operations and no-one (except when a med-borg gets upgraded) uses anything other than basic tend wounds.

Add to the fact that more advanced surgeries get researched more rarely now because they're gated behind slime experiments which scientists never do...
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Re: Allow operating computers to work with stasis beds again

Post by Pandarsenic » #620269

Good idea for good people that should be implemented by good coders, no sarcasm. The organ/formaldehyde adventures are a pain.
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Re: Allow operating computers to work with stasis beds again

Post by iprice » #620275

Agreed.

In the original PR people kept arguing about "improving the diversity of bed usage", but (other than tend wounds) the limited value or availability of surgery doesn't make the bed alone worth using over stasis.

Science rarely researches anything, probably because there's zero incentive for them to do so, which is the usual flaw with interdepartmental dependencies (thermomachines broke? - "tell atmos to put gas in waste" - haha right)

Only husks really compel me to bother with surgery tables, as CMO I can do the research when I want to use it, and even then its 50/50. Surgery /rooms/ I might use if I want to work somewhere more "secure" than treatment.


Main losses are any incentive for anyone to bother with medical surgery tech (tend wounds /is/ good, medical basically gets no upgrades most rounds at all), but I also argued for the "new doctor" helpfulness of those surgical computers before you get familiar with the patterns of individual and general surgery.


Don't think anyone ever answered in the original PR as to "why" it was considered "good for the game" to increase bed usage diversity in medical either, so I never really got the point of this change.
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Re: Allow operating computers to work with stasis beds again

Post by Cobby » #620286

Stasis beds being a cure-all crutch is bad for the game.

Experiments that benefit medical directly should have something THEY need to do as a bargaining chip, rather than science who has all the bargaining power on the interaction.

That or make it so xenobio wants something from medbay so they will scan the slime as trade
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Re: Allow operating computers to work with stasis beds again

Post by BrianBackslide » #620306

I think the only surgery that should be performable on a stasis bed is basic tend wounds, and only because I feel bad for plasmemes that get killed. Even then, I don't think operating tables would be used more often with a change like that.

Players are going to opt for the immediate, convenient solution to a problem. Even if operating tables have access to better surgeries and give a small speed bonus, the stasis bed will be preferred simply for two reasons:
1) It's closer.
2) It prevents organ decay.

Specifically because of reason 2, there's no reason NOT to use the stasis bed. Nothing like having to patch someone up who otherwise has good organs, only for them to be completely decayed before you're ready to defib. This gets worse as you run out of epipens, and is also compounded by the removal of silver from the chem dispensers. You might end up having to deconstruct the very operating table you were going to use just to get the formaldehyde you need in order to operate on it!

Medbay doesn't even have anything that it can contribute toward R&D, so why is its research locked behind Xenobio? Shouldn't it be locked behind something Medbay related? Might be a good way to bring back dissections.
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Re: Allow operating computers to work with stasis beds again

Post by Pandarsenic » #620308

BrianBackslide wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 7:02 pm I think the only surgery that should be performable on a stasis bed is basic tend wounds, and only because I feel bad for plasmemes that get killed. Even then, I don't think operating tables would be used more often with a change like that.

Players are going to opt for the immediate, convenient solution to a problem. Even if operating tables have access to better surgeries and give a small speed bonus, the stasis bed will be preferred simply for two reasons:
1) It's closer.
2) It prevents organ decay.

Specifically because of reason 2, there's no reason NOT to use the stasis bed. Nothing like having to patch someone up who otherwise has good organs, only for them to be completely decayed before you're ready to defib. This gets worse as you run out of epipens, and is also compounded by the removal of silver from the chem dispensers. You might end up having to deconstruct the very operating table you were going to use just to get the formaldehyde you need in order to operate on it!

Medbay doesn't even have anything that it can contribute toward R&D, so why is its research locked behind Xenobio? Shouldn't it be locked behind something Medbay related? Might be a good way to bring back dissections.
Your post popped as I was typing almost that same thing:

The problem with Surgery vs. Stasis Beds is, if someone is dead (which they very often are), having them off the stasis bed to use those advanced surgeries is a pain in the ass because their organs start degrading.

I would go so far as to say that the benefits of doing Advanced Tending Surgeries on a corpse aren't sufficient to even make up the cost (in silver and time) of building extra surgery beds in the Treatment Theater or bringing a person to a surgery room in my experience. Especially if the body didn't come to medbay fairly fresh, risking the Heart or Brain degrading while you carry a body to and from an Advanced Tend Wounds table can lose you all the time you saved, several times over.

The only almost-useful thing is to deconstruct the silver beds + computers in the surgery rooms and bring them to the Treatment Theater (which I do, sometimes) and set them up in a triangle or line with the already-present Stasis Beds
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Re: Allow operating computers to work with stasis beds again

Post by sinfulbliss » #620312

Strongly agree, not everyone who plays medical is a veteran and for new players this could really help.
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Re: Allow operating computers to work with stasis beds again

Post by BrianBackslide » #620314

I would add that the only real solution is to either further incentivize operating tables, or further disincentivize stasis beds. Because the half-measures that have been taken have not achieved the desired effect.
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Re: Allow operating computers to work with stasis beds again

Post by cacogen » #620332

Cobby wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:11 pm Stasis beds being a cure-all crutch is bad for the game.
Aren't the surgeries already tedious, fiddly and time-consuming enough without having to factor in the time to move bodies between beds and the organ decay that occurs as a result? The coder dogma is never explained either, it's just "bad for the game".
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Re: Allow operating computers to work with stasis beds again

Post by iprice » #620346

Cobby wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:11 pm Stasis beds being a cure-all crutch is bad for the game.
Why?

I asked this a couple of times in the PR and never really got an answer, why is improving the diversity of bed usage a good thing?

Medical's in a pretty good position of all the jobs on the station, it's interesting, has depth (sad about radiation mind), quiet and busy moments and is a generally well balanced job, improvement to tend wounds, which is all this operating computer thing practically does, would be nice, but what's actually wrong with the usage of stasis beds that the operating computers nerf was supposed to break this "love" relationship?

If you're lucky, a paramed might have vomited up a bottle of formaldehyde. Almost no-one ever uses the stuff, bodies dumped on the floor in medical might get preserved by an MD inbetween fixing all the bodies but generally organ decay is a problem because no-one has or uses anything to stop it. Epi pens run out pretty quick and thats about as far as I ever go with this path, because if I need formaldehyde, I'm probably better off spending the time prioritising and fixing the fastest patients than I am trying going to made formaldehyde, and there's no mats for it shift start other than dismantling the infamous operating tables so pre-preparation is kinda meh.

But what is it about the player's gameplay that is "problematic" and needed to have operating computers nerfed in the first place to "fix". And I mean a real answer, not something like "well we have fancy beds so we gotta make them meaningful" justifications, an actual explanation in terms of what goes wrong in a round that this needed to change for. Because I don't see it. Medical is fine, and was fine before operating computers got nerfed. It failed in its goal, and probably always will without some changes to preservatives or organ decay, and I'm not sure why the goal to make other beds used is so desirable that it's worth just making the whole process a bit more tedious for everyone.

At this point I probably wouldn't care about operating computers either way, stasis beds or not. But then I've mastered my trade and mostly just do minimal tend wounds surgery and nothing else researchable matters. But when this change originally happened I sure was glad I'd gotten comfortable with the job before this happened.

I still send newbies to go do stuff on morgue corpses on surgical tables so they can read the steps, I never explain to them what the computer actually does or what its intended use in advanced surgery is, and I usually epi pen the corpse too so they dont freak out while learning. I really should remember to tell them not to actually operate on real dead patients on those tables otherwise thats going to be a sad story.....
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Re: Allow operating computers to work with stasis beds again

Post by Cobby » #620371

The reason it’s bad is because it hard counters a lot of systems including organ decay, toxins, bloodloss, organloss, etc. at generally no cost to anyone (power and limited amounts, both are malleable). It gives the doctors literally infinite time to work on them at no practical downside.

If you want a step back and ask”well why is hard countering those bad for the game”, it’s because it takes out any immediacy or investment put in to causing that player said damage.

The quite small trade off to absolutely btfoing these systems is

1) 10% difference between a stasis bed and operating table for surgery success
2) you can’t use the more advanced surgeries [well you can but honestly that should be fixed]
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Re: Allow operating computers to work with stasis beds again

Post by Super Aggro Crag » #620383

The main gate to organ damage isn't people putting deadoids on surgical tables, its "all the stasis beds are in use, so leave those corpses on the floor we'll get to them." Then the retard on the stasis bed ghosts while you're almost finished fixing him and you wasted all that time repairing 400 brute burn and you gotta harvest his organs to repair the rotbod
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Re: Allow operating computers to work with stasis beds again

Post by iwishforducks » #620397

Stasis beds are the epitome of good design. No matter the bike shedding of "bed diversity," this will always hold true.

They're quick and easy to use. It's incredibly easy to tell who is on the bed, and thus whose organs are not rotting. How do you tell a body's organ is not rotting with a stasis bed? You look and see if they're buckled to it. With surgery tables? Who the fuck KNOWS. In order to find out if someone's organs are rotting you can either do a health scan to see their organ damage, or do a chemical scan to see what chemicals they have in them. Both are in your chat, and both are ridiculously hard to decipher without knowing what you're looking for.

Even though stasis beds are "quick and easy" to use, that doesn't make them busted. They're a truly limited supply (apart from deltastation lol). Not only do you have to use stasis beds to keep organs from decaying, but you need them to do surgery. It's triage in its truest form. Surgery tables do not incentivize this kind of triage work because the only "triage" you have to do is try to figure out what bodies have formaldehyde in them. And good luck with that.

Stasis beds are not meant to replace formaldehyde, and formaldehyde is not meant to replace stasis beds. The formaldehyde + surgery table meta makes no sense. They're two distinct systems that we're trying to shoe horn together. Instead of fucking over the design of stasis beds, give some damn design to surgery tables.
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Re: Allow operating computers to work with stasis beds again

Post by iprice » #620529

Cobby wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:17 am The reason it’s bad is because it hard counters a lot of systems including organ decay, toxins, bloodloss, organloss, etc. at generally no cost to anyone (power and limited amounts, both are malleable). It gives the doctors literally infinite time to work on them at no practical downside.
Toxins
With stasis: Possible blood filter, stomach pump, chems for small ammounts, cryo for larger.
Without stasis: Patient dies, possible blood filter, stomach pump, defib, slightly longer cryo time.
Blood loss
With stasis: Cure relevant wounds, IV drip, CPR/salbutamol.
Without stasis: Patient dies, cure relevant wounds, IV drip, defib, CPR/salbutamol. (IV drip for slightly longer than with stasis)
Organ loss
Brain: You're dead either way, nothing changes.
Heart/Lungs: Costs one defib, though generally you're dead because these kill fast. Either way, death by oxygen loss is the easiest one to recover from. Literally, if someone is going to die, strangle them, saves you work post defib. (don't actually do this).
Stomach: No urgency ever, stasis or not.
Liver: the only one where stasis matters, basically the exact same as the "Toxins" case above, since thats what it causes.

None of these matter. The difference in workflow is a few seconds to half a minute, and even that half a minute is just waiting on an IV/cryo, not actually doing anything, so you can tend someone else. Otherwise add one 3 second defib step.

Organ decay however costs a lot, heart op is already very common surgery before the corpse even gets to medbay (takes about 5 minutes to decay?), and adds 30 seconds to the surgery steps. Further decay will add about 1-2 minutes for a full cavity replacement, 20 seconds to remove appendix, and either chems or another minute to do eyes and ears (on different organ manipulations for extra fun). Given the patient may only need 30-60 seconds work in the first place, piling on an extra 1 to 5 minutes work is a huge additional cost compared to all of the above.

Organ decay is an overpowered inconvenience compared to all the other problems, and while there may be ways to deal with it, idealism isn't practical and no-one actually does deal with it. When a round gets to the point where corpses are building up in medbay on the floor it either falls to the MD, who has nothing more than 2 epi pens to deal with this problem, to preserve corpses (instead of fixing people), and raid stores for more epi pens. No-one else ever does this, and when medical is this backlogged having a complete organ rot is basically round removal because I'm not going to spend several minutes totally replacing a person's internals AND fixing whatever was actually wrong with them in the first place if I've got another corpse with 220 brute and fine organs, because why make that second person wait when I can have them out the door within 2 minutes.



Make surgery beds counter organ decay, then at least they're not a literal detriment to fixing a patient. They're still not actually worth using because medical surgery research is largely worthless (even tend wounds, it only really makes a /significant/ difference on people with 300+ damage, which isn't that common), but at least they're not just terrible then.

Edit: Also make more surgery like new meta. Old meta, and most other maps, have surgery as this nowhere box you go isolate yourself with an uncommunicative corpse. It's the peak of multiplayer gaming. At least you can see other people and sometimes talk to them on new meta (though having seclusion for special cases is also good). Because isolation is usually a detriment IMO.
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Re: Allow operating computers to work with stasis beds again

Post by Sexmaster » #620544

Cobby wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:17 am The reason it’s bad is because it hard counters a lot of systems including organ decay, toxins, bloodloss, organloss, etc. at generally no cost to anyone (power and limited amounts, both are malleable). It gives the doctors literally infinite time to work on them at no practical downside.

If you want a step back and ask”well why is hard countering those bad for the game”, it’s because it takes out any immediacy or investment put in to causing that player said damage.

The quite small trade off to absolutely btfoing these systems is

1) 10% difference between a stasis bed and operating table for surgery success
2) you can’t use the more advanced surgeries [well you can but honestly that should be fixed]
Honestly, it would just be easier to remove surgery tables and have stasis beds for all surgeries.

All you really need a surgery table for is to start the surgery, which can then be moved onto a stasis bed anyway, it's just a waste of time. We're trying to revive other players so they can play the game, I don't want to be fighting with shitty coding choices that increase the time another player is dead for because their heart has decayed when I go to defib them. Having stasis beds able to do more doesn't remove the investment of hurting that person, if an antag needs someone dead they behead them and hide the brain, there is no reason to punish a player for dying.

The only place where it is arguable to keep surgery tables would be Manuel, maybe they might like staying dead, I dunno :honkman:
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Re: Allow operating computers to work with stasis beds again

Post by Rageguy505 » #620549

I never see cryostylane being used, it's like a worse version of formaldehyde but available round start. And I do think that stasis beds should sync with surgery computers again, medbay just builds surgery tables next to stasis beds and it ends up making treatment feel crowded.
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Re: Allow operating computers to work with stasis beds again

Post by Pandarsenic » #620569

Rageguy505 wrote: Sat Nov 27, 2021 12:36 am I never see cryostylane being used, it's like a worse version of formaldehyde but available round start. And I do think that stasis beds should sync with surgery computers again, medbay just builds surgery tables next to stasis beds and it ends up making treatment feel crowded.
My guess, offhand, is that it's faster to just do surgery on a stasis bed than cryostylane-slowed surgery on a surgery bed, though it might have some use for when the stasis beds are overloaded.
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Re: Allow operating computers to work with stasis beds again

Post by Sexmaster » #620586

Rageguy505 wrote: Sat Nov 27, 2021 12:36 am I never see cryostylane being used, it's like a worse version of formaldehyde but available round start. And I do think that stasis beds should sync with surgery computers again, medbay just builds surgery tables next to stasis beds and it ends up making treatment feel crowded.
Yeah, all I need to use a surgery table for is to start the surgery, you can continue it on stasis right after, it's just a waste of time and space
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Re: Allow operating computers to work with stasis beds again

Post by Mothblocks » #620622

In case it wasn't obvious that's a bug
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Re: Allow operating computers to work with stasis beds again

Post by cacogen » #620623

Based on recent experience it's amazing out fast organ damage builds up when you briefly take a body off a stasis bed and put them onto an operating table for faster tend wounds or whatever. It's a huge pain in the ass, particularly when you have a lot of other things to fix on a corpse and other bodies needing attention.
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Re: Allow operating computers to work with stasis beds again

Post by BrianBackslide » #620739

I think it's important to point out that if people can't even be bothered to use sterilizers, they sure as hell aren't going to bother with the objectively worse surgery bed that can't preserve organs.
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Re: Allow operating computers to work with stasis beds again

Post by NecromancerAnne » #620740

I think the core gameplay issue right now is that treating corpses can in some ways be better than treating living patients if you have formaldehyde.

If this wasn't the case, and organ preservation wasn't available beyond cryostylane and stasis beds, revival might just always be out of reach, which definitely pushes the game in a realistic direction but ultimately also pushes us into extremely long treatment times as well.

There is no easy answer here. Thr current middle ground is at most manageable, and you just go without surgery upgrades entirely to gst any progress done at all during treatment.
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Re: Allow operating computers to work with stasis beds again

Post by EuSouAFazenda » #620749

what gameplay purpouse does decaying organs serve?
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Re: Allow operating computers to work with stasis beds again

Post by Cobby » #620755

stasis beds arent truly limited, you can plaster them all over the place if you wanted. The "issue" is you dont, but that doesnt mean it's something i just dont have to consider until you do it every round.

Trying to explain that its a nonissue then going on a soapbox about how its inconvenient to the point where it matters as to whether you do it or not seems to suggest it isnt just a nonissue, the more well hidden a body is (or the less time you put in time to get them alive) the more you have to work on the body (perhaps to the point where borging/new body is preferable, which comes with its own pros and cons). That gets thrown out of the window when you add stasis beds into the mix because you dont have to have someone actively working on them.

Again, if the only downside of the bed is that there are limited amounts in a game where you can easily get the components to make more of them, you're going to have to do a better job selling me that they're not super strong.
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Re: Allow operating computers to work with stasis beds again

Post by Pandarsenic » #620764

Okay so why do surgery beds still exist though
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Re: Allow operating computers to work with stasis beds again

Post by cacogen » #620780

There's already enough to contend with in medbay without organ decay from putting someone on a surgery table for the duration of one surgery too. I never see formaldehyde outside of the paramedic's belt and I never see anyone use it either. Just seems like another case of expectation vs. reality.
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Re: Allow operating computers to work with stasis beds again

Post by nianjiilical » #620788

the last day or two ive been playing md on sybil and it feels like even when you build operating tables and computers next to the stasis beds people still prefer to put people in the beds and use basic tend wounds
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Re: Allow operating computers to work with stasis beds again

Post by sinfulbliss » #620822

Cobby wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:17 am The reason it’s bad is because it hard counters a lot of systems including organ decay, toxins, bloodloss, organloss, etc. at generally no cost to anyone (power and limited amounts, both are malleable). It gives the doctors literally infinite time to work on them at no practical downside.

If you want a step back and ask”well why is hard countering those bad for the game”, it’s because it takes out any immediacy or investment put in to causing that player said damage.
If I murder someone via bloodloss, toxins, etc., and their body ends up in medbay, I wouldn't feel cheated if their organs didn't decay. If you want to keep someone out of the round for a long period of time, or RR them, you hide them in a locker in maint or cut the head off. It's unnecessary to make dead bodies as a whole become more time-consuming to fix so that death can have more of a cost.

Dying already has a pretty great cost in that you're never guaranteed to get revived in the first place, and if you do get brought to medbay you may still never get revived because your organs are all decayed or there are 5 other bodies before yours that are far easier to fix.
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Re: Allow operating computers to work with stasis beds again

Post by Mickyan » #620849

Cobby wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:11 pm Stasis beds being a cure-all crutch is bad for the game.
This is an issue that needs to be addressed with proper tools for triage and stabilization instead of pretending stasis beds are a problem rather than a bandaid
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Re: Allow operating computers to work with stasis beds again

Post by iprice » #620850

Oh, I also hate that you can place tools on a surgical table :D
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Re: Allow operating computers to work with stasis beds again

Post by Jonathan Gupta » #621447

iprice wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 6:16 pm Oh, I also hate that you can place tools on a surgical table :D
Im pretty sure the code for the surgical table is just a table with properties able to do surgery more successful and operating computer co-operation
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Re: Allow operating computers to work with stasis beds again

Post by Mailbox » #621477

Cobby wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:17 am The reason it’s bad is because it hard counters a lot of systems including organ decay, toxins, bloodloss, organloss, etc. at generally no cost to anyone (power and limited amounts, both are malleable). It gives the doctors literally infinite time to work on them at no practical downside.

If you want a step back and ask”well why is hard countering those bad for the game”, it’s because it takes out any immediacy or investment put in to causing that player said damage.

The quite small trade off to absolutely btfoing these systems is

1) 10% difference between a stasis bed and operating table for surgery success
2) you can’t use the more advanced surgeries [well you can but honestly that should be fixed]
I don't understand why giving doctor unlimited time to work on a body is a bad thing. Most new player will not be able to figure stuff out in time and veteran players already got this shit solved so it doesn't really improve the game for them. If organ decay actually mattered I would just tell the new doctor to go away and I would do everything myself. The only reason surgery tables are not being used is because most medical doctors suck at the game the difference is simply in skill. Allowing surgery computers to work with stasis table would just make it easier for traitors to do brainwashing in stealth.
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Re: Allow operating computers to work with stasis beds again

Post by Shadowflame909 » #621479

organ decay is a major pain and I will rather clear the easier bodies then the one who's body needs to be stuffed with organs that cannot be found.

And if someone doesn't come to get their corpse-target out of medbay anyways. Then I don't think death should be an issue for them if they make it to that ground.

Edit: What I mean to say is, put some agency on the antagonist who failed to complete the job. Instead of the crew who don't want to do anything with the corpse laying there because it takes too long to stitch it all up back together and they have to work on 10 other people that got three tapped by a murderboner with a dual e-sword.
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Re: Allow operating computers to work with stasis beds again

Post by Pandarsenic » #621484

If the murderboner really wanted them out of the round, they'd just take the time to decap and steal the head/brain anyway
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Re: Allow operating computers to work with stasis beds again

Post by cacogen » #621503

Mailbox wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 10:40 pm If organ decay actually mattered I would just tell the new doctor to go away and I would do everything myself. The only reason surgery tables are not being used is because most medical doctors suck at the game the difference is simply in skill.
It absolutely matters. The rate at which organs decay off of stasis beds is staggering. Surgery tables aren't used for dead patients chiefly because of this (because otherwise they provide an advantage in nearly every way) combined with the fact nobody has formaldehyde or whatever else can be used to prevent organ decay (and a lack of knowledge about what can be used, how to get it and what the side-effects are).
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Re: Allow operating computers to work with stasis beds again

Post by WineAllWine » #621507

I still haven't seen any good reason for operating computers to not work with stasis beds. I want to use advanced tend wounds and this doesn't feel unreasonable.
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Re: Allow operating computers to work with stasis beds again

Post by Mailbox » #621547

cacogen wrote: Wed Dec 08, 2021 1:55 pm
Mailbox wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 10:40 pm If organ decay actually mattered I would just tell the new doctor to go away and I would do everything myself. The only reason surgery tables are not being used is because most medical doctors suck at the game the difference is simply in skill.
It absolutely matters. The rate at which organs decay off of stasis beds is staggering. Surgery tables aren't used for dead patients chiefly because of this (because otherwise they provide an advantage in nearly every way) combined with the fact nobody has formaldehyde or whatever else can be used to prevent organ decay (and a lack of knowledge about what can be used, how to get it and what the side-effects are).
everyone has formaldehydrate on them in the medipen you can order more medi pens shift start as cmo there is no shortage. the only reason people don't do this is because of skill issue
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Re: Allow operating computers to work with stasis beds again

Post by Super Aggro Crag » #621589

Mailbox wrote: Wed Dec 08, 2021 9:33 pm
cacogen wrote: Wed Dec 08, 2021 1:55 pm
Mailbox wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 10:40 pm If organ decay actually mattered I would just tell the new doctor to go away and I would do everything myself. The only reason surgery tables are not being used is because most medical doctors suck at the game the difference is simply in skill.
It absolutely matters. The rate at which organs decay off of stasis beds is staggering. Surgery tables aren't used for dead patients chiefly because of this (because otherwise they provide an advantage in nearly every way) combined with the fact nobody has formaldehyde or whatever else can be used to prevent organ decay (and a lack of knowledge about what can be used, how to get it and what the side-effects are).
everyone has formaldehydrate on them in the medipen you can order more medi pens shift start as cmo there is no shortage. the only reason people don't do this is because of skill issue
DURRRR JUST USE DA CARGO 2 GET DA ITAMS 2 DO UR JOB


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Re: Allow operating computers to work with stasis beds again

Post by Mothblocks » #621590

there's a computer to give you stuff like that for free these days
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Re: Allow operating computers to work with stasis beds again

Post by cacogen » #621592

If nobody knows about it or how it works that's a design issue. It's also true that relying on cargo for proper balance is unrealistic
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Re: Allow operating computers to work with stasis beds again

Post by oranges » #621616

Might be unrealistic but it's also something I've chosen to do.
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Re: Allow operating computers to work with stasis beds again

Post by Mothblocks » #621619

People not knowing that there's a computer that gives you useful stuff for free is something that'll be solved over time by people learning about it, using it, and telling others (that's how I learned about it), literal skill issue
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Re: Allow operating computers to work with stasis beds again

Post by Armhulen » #621642

cacogen wrote: Thu Dec 09, 2021 6:49 pm If nobody knows about it or how it works that's a design issue. It's also true that relying on cargo for proper balance is unrealistic
if you got uuuh suggestions for awareness around the feature im takin em
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Re: Allow operating computers to work with stasis beds again

Post by Cobby » #621675

To be clear Id have little issue with not-stasis beds that slower the functions (versus current full-stops) or perhaps even more interesting would be no stasis roundstart but surgery beds can upgrade to slow down different systems upto full stasis. I haven’t really fleshed out the idea enough to put it in my lil design document but anything that has pros and cons is generally more interesting than a linear must-do.

On the topic of triage/stabilization: I think there’s room for expansion in this area but I don’t want those to be buzzwords for healing perfectly fine out of medbay. The general mechanics should be you can live longer but it’s not really an Avenue to avoid actual treatment. That said I don’t think stasis removal matters for triage, maybe a bit for stabilization but I still want ways to slower the effects of these systems so you can more easily address them.

On the topic of newbie crutch: I don’t care to the extent that I have explicitly said I want MD not to be associated with a newbie job. Anything that still suggests otherwise should be changed because it’s not reflective of who should be running the arguably most important department on the station when things hit the fan. You’re in a world where botany can poop out monkeys for very little cost, if you want people acclimated there’s a pretty good test tutorial device there (not that I would be opposed to someone making a patient dummy that’s like the pretend bomb that illustrates scenarios you might find yourself in as a doctor)
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Re: Allow operating computers to work with stasis beds again

Post by Pandarsenic » #621804

Is there any easy, practical way to tell if someone even HAS Formaldehyde in them or than to measure a little bit of time apart to see if organs tick?
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Re: Allow operating computers to work with stasis beds again

Post by Mothblocks » #621810

right-click with health analyzer
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Re: Allow operating computers to work with stasis beds again

Post by Pandarsenic » #621840

... Can the PDA health analyzer cartridge do that, to? I remember testing it at least a few times and always forgetting if it can.
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Re: Allow operating computers to work with stasis beds again

Post by iprice » #621842

There's a chem thingy pda cartridge with "enable reagent scanner", the CMO medical cartridge can do both.
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Re: Allow operating computers to work with stasis beds again

Post by Mailbox » #621860

Super Aggro Crag wrote: Thu Dec 09, 2021 2:40 pm
Mailbox wrote: Wed Dec 08, 2021 9:33 pm
cacogen wrote: Wed Dec 08, 2021 1:55 pm
Mailbox wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 10:40 pm If organ decay actually mattered I would just tell the new doctor to go away and I would do everything myself. The only reason surgery tables are not being used is because most medical doctors suck at the game the difference is simply in skill.
It absolutely matters. The rate at which organs decay off of stasis beds is staggering. Surgery tables aren't used for dead patients chiefly because of this (because otherwise they provide an advantage in nearly every way) combined with the fact nobody has formaldehyde or whatever else can be used to prevent organ decay (and a lack of knowledge about what can be used, how to get it and what the side-effects are).
everyone has formaldehydrate on them in the medipen you can order more medi pens shift start as cmo there is no shortage. the only reason people don't do this is because of skill issue
DURRRR JUST USE DA CARGO 2 GET DA ITAMS 2 DO UR JOB


Shut up retardo. Go push a box off a cliff you shorts wearing diaperdog
Do you have a dent in your head or something I want the surgery computers to work with the stasis bed because people are shit at the game.
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