Changelings and the MMI test.

Ask and discuss policy about game conduct and rules.
Forum rules
Read these board rules before posting or you'll get reprimanded.
Threads without replies for 30 days will be automatically locked.
Locked
User avatar
Moltov
Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2021 7:49 pm
Byond Username: Moltov

Changelings and the MMI test.

Post by Moltov » #620343

There has been a lot of back and fourth on the changeling MMI test on MRP. (Debraining a potential changeling and seeing if the brain can be put into an MMI- if not it's a ling). I've yet to see a proper ruling on it but most admins and players seem to agree that it's not right to do. Will there ever be a ruling on it? What is everyone's thoughts? :brain:
Image Image
CMDR_Gungnir
Joined: Tue May 04, 2021 11:11 am
Byond Username: CMDR Gungnir

Re: Changelings and the MMI test.

Post by CMDR_Gungnir » #620348

There're much easier ways to figure it out that you've probably got access to, so I don't see the issue myself. If you decap (or debrain) and the body says reviveable instead of having the skull, it's a 'Ling.
User avatar
GamerAndYeahMick
In-Game Admin
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2021 10:17 pm
Byond Username: GamerAndYeahMick

Re: Changelings and the MMI test.

Post by GamerAndYeahMick » #620351

My understanding is that this is already not allowed
Image
User avatar
Mothblocks
Code Maintainer
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2018 9:33 am
Byond Username: Jaredfogle

Re: Changelings and the MMI test.

Post by Mothblocks » #620352

It's an exploit, and has been ruled as such in the past.
Mothblocks on Bagil/Sybil - Say nice things about me
CMDR_Gungnir
Joined: Tue May 04, 2021 11:11 am
Byond Username: CMDR Gungnir

Re: Changelings and the MMI test.

Post by CMDR_Gungnir » #620362

Is it also considered an exploit to notice that the MedHUD says the headless corpse can be revived?
User avatar
spookuni
In-Game Admin
Joined: Sun Jan 05, 2020 7:05 am
Byond Username: Spookuni
Location: The Whiteship

Re: Changelings and the MMI test.

Post by spookuni » #620372

So far as I am aware, it has been consistently ruled in the past that intentionally making use of any method to test for changeling status that is not dependant on a changeling having used their abilities is exploiting unintended behaviour. You can make use of tells that arise as a result of the use of changeling abilities (Examples: noting changeling haste in someone's bloodstream, noting that flesh clothing is unremovable, etc) but any methods to test for the -status- of being a changeling are no-no.
CMDR_Gungnir
Joined: Tue May 04, 2021 11:11 am
Byond Username: CMDR Gungnir

Re: Changelings and the MMI test.

Post by CMDR_Gungnir » #620373

spookuni wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:51 am So far as I am aware, it has been consistently ruled in the past that intentionally making use of any method to test for changeling status that is not dependant on a changeling having used their abilities is exploiting unintended behaviour. You can make use of tells that arise as a result of the use of changeling abilities (Examples: noting changeling haste in someone's bloodstream, noting that flesh clothing is unremovable, etc) but any methods to test for the -status- of being a changeling are no-no.
So if you've removed the head/brain for another reason (transplant because you fear someone's Teeth Pills which you Know About, for example) and you notice, it's fine to act on, but don't go removing the brain just to check?
User avatar
NecromancerAnne
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2018 6:55 pm
Byond Username: NecromancerAnne
Location: Don't touch me, motherfucker...

Re: Changelings and the MMI test.

Post by NecromancerAnne » #620376

What teeth pills are worth removing someones head over?
User avatar
Jonathan Gupta
Joined: Sun Feb 21, 2021 10:16 pm
Byond Username: BallastMonsterGnarGnar
Location: The Corner

Re: Changelings and the MMI test.

Post by Jonathan Gupta » #620378

NecromancerAnne wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:37 am What teeth pills are worth removing someones head over?
meth, potassium and holy water, RDX and Napalm, the list goes on would you like to hear?

List:
► Show Spoiler
there is MANY opportunities
NSFW:
Fanfiction is never coming out.
Spoiler:
XivilaiAnaxes wrote:Good luck with getting into any other ss13 servers Gupta
This shit is going everywhere
Everyone will know your little scheme
And we will find everyone involved
Fucking POS
Jonathan Gupta wrote:sneezed twice a cute girl must be talking about me :mrgreen:
Agux909 wrote:I get psychological damage every time I read one of Gupta's posts.
Stickymayhem wrote:you know if you just add Jonathan Gupta to your blocked list on the forums you can save /tg/station
Omega_DarkPotato wrote:I keep gupta unblocked because his posts are funnier than spam text
cacogen wrote:
Jonathan Gupta wrote: you see my inner psyche in each of my posts I'll demonstrate a conversation I had with myself recently "ROCK ON!!!!! Loserx9 *laugh uncontrollably* LOSEEEEEEEER *do a rock sign* *do 20 pushups* TURN THAT SHIT UP!!!! *Invisible remote turns it up* *Chuckle till you go to sleep*" and I'm not happy either when I laugh this all happens within 5 seconds by the way 10 seconds for the pushups.
this sounds like hell
for me, it's wondering why mark Wahlberg is able to get away with what he's done
Farquaar wrote:
Jonathan Gupta wrote:true
I need proof because you're Jonathan Gupta
Nabski wrote:Gupta is one of the three people I've ever bothered to block on the forums.
Fhaxaris wrote:Gupta
CMDR_Gungnir
Joined: Tue May 04, 2021 11:11 am
Byond Username: CMDR Gungnir

Re: Changelings and the MMI test.

Post by CMDR_Gungnir » #620392

NecromancerAnne wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:37 am What teeth pills are worth removing someones head over?
This particular person is someone who once filled his teethpills with explosives and killed half of the Security Team in one go with them. We knew he had some (we'd checked), so went with going for a brain transplant to deal with rather than let that happen again. The opening clip to this video is that incident.

(Clarification: We knew he had teeth pills because I was the MD who had inserted them. But all I had was his claim of what they were (healing pills), so when it came out that he was an antag, and I saw he still had all of them in his teeth, precautions were taken)
User avatar
sinfulbliss
Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:53 am
Byond Username: SinfulBliss
Location: prisoner re-education chamber

Re: Changelings and the MMI test.

Post by sinfulbliss » #620539

Yeah this is already considered an exploit even on LRP I think.
User avatar
Omega_DarkPotato
In-Game Admin
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2020 12:05 am
Byond Username: Omega_DarkPotato
Location: Former Hell, Gensokyo

Re: Changelings and the MMI test.

Post by Omega_DarkPotato » #620546

CMDR_Gungnir wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 1:27 pm
NecromancerAnne wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:37 am What teeth pills are worth removing someones head over?
This particular person is someone who once filled his teethpills with explosives and killed half of the Security Team in one go with them.
taking off someone's head because they've done something in a previous round when you would normally not is considered metagrudging or abusing metaknowledge.
Avoid doing this.

As for the "ling check", it's been ruled previously as an exploit and all responding staff here have said the same. Don't do this.
Super Aggro Crag wrote:This is what u get when u let people into your community
play opus: echo of starsong
I'm an admin, typically on /tg/station sybil! If you have questions, comments, or anything you'd like clarified, feel free to take it to my admin feedback thread!
CMDR_Gungnir
Joined: Tue May 04, 2021 11:11 am
Byond Username: CMDR Gungnir

Re: Changelings and the MMI test.

Post by CMDR_Gungnir » #620554

Omega_DarkPotato wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 10:28 pm
CMDR_Gungnir wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 1:27 pm
NecromancerAnne wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:37 am What teeth pills are worth removing someones head over?
This particular person is someone who once filled his teethpills with explosives and killed half of the Security Team in one go with them.
taking off someone's head because they've done something in a previous round when you would normally not is considered metagrudging or abusing metaknowledge.
Avoid doing this.

As for the "ling check", it's been ruled previously as an exploit and all responding staff here have said the same. Don't do this.
The teethpills they asked me to insert were, to their own admission, healing pills and bath salts. Even if they were true to the claim (they were), I would've done this. I probably should've mentioned this initially, but c'est la vie. And for the immediate question I sense coming, he has a mix he uses often that makes it survivable with (mostly) minimal side effects and it's not metaknowledge because he literally taught me the recipe/mix in character.

(There IS an argument to be made about the fact that sometimes that's the right thing to do, so that someone doesn't just do the same thing repeatedly with no changes and you just kinda have to smile, nod and ignore the obvious signs because you're not allowed to know "this person does this repeatedly haha :)" but that's a discussion for another policy thread)
User avatar
Pandarsenic
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 11:56 pm
Byond Username: Pandarsenic
Location: AI Upload

Re: Changelings and the MMI test.

Post by Pandarsenic » #620570

Omega_DarkPotato wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 10:28 pm taking off someone's head because they've done something in a previous round when you would normally not is considered metagrudging or abusing metaknowledge.
Avoid doing this.
What's the line between "Metagrudging" and "Responding to a person's reputation" here?

What if you never even met them, but you've heard about it, like immediately checking on Herr in atmospherics once 8-12 maxcaps go off in the disposals loop? What if they've fully admitted that's a thing they normally do? What if, as there, it's something they taught you how to do? What if it's something more people should learn how to do, but haven't (to use Herr again, because people absolutely do meta him over it, the Nitryl Nitrium Decomposition Maxcap)?
(2:53:35 AM) scaredofshadows: how about head of robutts
I once wrote a guide to fixing telecomms woohoo
User avatar
Omega_DarkPotato
In-Game Admin
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2020 12:05 am
Byond Username: Omega_DarkPotato
Location: Former Hell, Gensokyo

Re: Changelings and the MMI test.

Post by Omega_DarkPotato » #620573

Pandarsenic wrote: Sat Nov 27, 2021 5:59 am
Omega_DarkPotato wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 10:28 pm taking off someone's head because they've done something in a previous round when you would normally not is considered metagrudging or abusing metaknowledge.
Avoid doing this.
What's the line between "Metagrudging" and "Responding to a person's reputation" here?

What if you never even met them, but you've heard about it, like immediately checking on Herr in atmospherics once 8-12 maxcaps go off in the disposals loop? What if they've fully admitted that's a thing they normally do? What if, as there, it's something they taught you how to do? What if it's something more people should learn how to do, but haven't (to use Herr again, because people absolutely do meta him over it, the Nitryl Nitrium Decomposition Maxcap)?
eh, fair. I jumped at it mainly because I saw the word "once". If you do it enough times I can begin to understand the point of view, but a one-off and permanently getting shat on for it is, in my own opinion (and not an official ruling in any way, shape, or form) pretty fuckin lame.
Super Aggro Crag wrote:This is what u get when u let people into your community
play opus: echo of starsong
I'm an admin, typically on /tg/station sybil! If you have questions, comments, or anything you'd like clarified, feel free to take it to my admin feedback thread!
User avatar
NecromancerAnne
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2018 6:55 pm
Byond Username: NecromancerAnne
Location: Don't touch me, motherfucker...

Re: Changelings and the MMI test.

Post by NecromancerAnne » #620579

Omega_DarkPotato wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 10:28 pm
CMDR_Gungnir wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 1:27 pm
NecromancerAnne wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:37 am What teeth pills are worth removing someones head over?
This particular person is someone who once filled his teethpills with explosives and killed half of the Security Team in one go with them.
taking off someone's head because they've done something in a previous round when you would normally not is considered metagrudging or abusing metaknowledge.
Avoid doing this.
Was gonna say this exact thing. Please stop being lame, folks, it's bad and metagrudging is bad.
CMDR_Gungnir
Joined: Tue May 04, 2021 11:11 am
Byond Username: CMDR Gungnir

Re: Changelings and the MMI test.

Post by CMDR_Gungnir » #620588

NecromancerAnne wrote: Sat Nov 27, 2021 10:13 am
Omega_DarkPotato wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 10:28 pm
CMDR_Gungnir wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 1:27 pm
NecromancerAnne wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:37 am What teeth pills are worth removing someones head over?
This particular person is someone who once filled his teethpills with explosives and killed half of the Security Team in one go with them.
taking off someone's head because they've done something in a previous round when you would normally not is considered metagrudging or abusing metaknowledge.
Avoid doing this.
Was gonna say this exact thing. Please stop being lame, folks, it's bad and metagrudging is bad.
I mean the part above you gives you all of the missing information that wasn't included because I didn't expect to be treated like I'm under investigation for warcrimes, but go off.
User avatar
dragomagol
In-Game Head Admin
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2020 11:04 pm
Byond Username: Dragomagol

Re: Changelings and the MMI test.

Post by dragomagol » #621266

Killing someone, removing their brain, and placing it in an MMI for the explicit purpose of determining whether or not someone is a changeling is considered an exploit.

Headmin Votes
Dragomagol: Yes
NamelessFairy: Yes
RaveRadbury: Yes
Help improve my neural network by giving me feedback!

Image
Spoiler:
Image
Locked

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Jackraxxus, Pandarsenic