Greytiders and breaking into medical to steal shit

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Adam Klein
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Greytiders and breaking into medical to steal shit

Post by Adam Klein » #624068

As said on the tin and in the design document https://hackmd.io/@bazelart/SyLoE-rhY here, greytiders break into medical to steal the healing meds for the whole shift. Some doctors who try to defend their job equipment get attacked by said greytiders, and due to the rampant tider culture on the Primary LRP servers, most people don’t ahelp because they don’t realize it is against the rules for the shitter assistants to shit everywhere. My proposed solution, make one of the lobby messages something along the line of “Reminder, if someone greytides into your place of work and starts stealing items, you are allowed to defend your property with any reasonable tools” maybe throwing something up about ahelping if the invader uses force against the property owner as a non antagonist. My hope is, again, this would help slowly change the sever culture away from the rule of the tide with a more gentle approach
Jonathan Gupta wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 6:32 pm all you godamn do is whine and complain come up with ideas, stop bitching for christs sake.
Flatulent wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 1:02 am You and anyone who supports the rule 3 as described by mso is simply put not an lrp player
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Re: Greytiders and breaking into medical to steal shit

Post by Adam Klein » #624070

Maybe replace the “We’re cracking down on Amongus!!!” Blurb with the new message just to remind people that you are allowed to defend your own property and ahelp bad actors.
Jonathan Gupta wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 6:32 pm all you godamn do is whine and complain come up with ideas, stop bitching for christs sake.
Flatulent wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 1:02 am You and anyone who supports the rule 3 as described by mso is simply put not an lrp player
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Re: Greytiders and breaking into medical to steal shit

Post by Pandarsenic » #624073

Counterpoint: Medical usually sucks and won't actually heal people even if they DO have their job equipment, so at least if tiders steal it people are getting healed
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Re: Greytiders and breaking into medical to steal shit

Post by Sylphet » #624075

Really don't think this is necessary. It's annoying, yes, but if we assume that people have read the rules (they play here, so of course they have, no ? 😉) then people know that if someone breaks in and starts stealing from you, then you can introduce them to your circular saw, and that they can't round remove you in retaliation. The problem here is not awareness of the rules, it's a server culture of choosing not to ahelp, because eh it's Terry, not a big deal or whatever.
Last edited by Sylphet on Tue Jan 25, 2022 11:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Greytiders and breaking into medical to steal shit

Post by sinfulbliss » #624095

So the idea is that if someone breaks into your department, they can be lethal'd to be kicked out, but they aren't allowed to respond with lethals in kind? Does not seem to jibe with LRP escalation policies. If someone uses lethals against you, you are allowed to lethal back. Seems the pertinent question is whether tiding into someone's department makes you valid for that department; or, barring that, if it makes you the instigator in the conflict (if you are the instigator you must make an attempt to revive them after killing).

I'd recommend securing some medikits yourself if you're a doc, ensuring medbay staff have them before anyone else does.
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Re: Greytiders and breaking into medical to steal shit

Post by Sylphet » #624148

sinfulbliss wrote: Sat Jan 08, 2022 4:32 pm So the idea is that if someone breaks into your department, they can be lethal'd to be kicked out, but they aren't allowed to respond with lethals in kind? Does not seem to jibe with LRP escalation policies. If someone uses lethals against you, you are allowed to lethal back.
I meant to say round remove rather than kill, since an instigator is required to take the victim to medical - but this is a long answered question. From the perspective of a tider, you can break in, and steal. The department is fully entitled to use force against you. If you win, you're the instigator for stealing in the first place, and cannot round remove someone for defending their department. If you lose, they take you to medical, or in the case of medical, just treat you and throw you out. If you come back, you are fully valid for round removal. If they chase you down outside of the department after your revival, where you have done nothing to them since your death, you are free to use force against them. If you kill security for trying to arrest you after stealing, you are self antagging. Tiding into a department absolutely makes you the instigator. And if keeping your supplies behind multiple access restricted doors and windows isn't considered securing, then what is ?

Literally all of this is covered under escalation policy, this thread doesn't create any new or meaningful policy, and players need to apply escalation policy if this is such an issue. Tiders won't come back if they're more likely to leave in a body bag than with shiny new gamer gear.
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Re: Greytiders and breaking into medical to steal shit

Post by sinfulbliss » #624191

Sylphet wrote: Sun Jan 09, 2022 6:22 am I meant to say round remove rather than kill, since an instigator is required to take the victim to medical - but this is a long answered question. From the perspective of a tider, you can break in, and steal. The department is fully entitled to use force against you. If you win, you're the instigator for stealing in the first place, and cannot round remove someone for defending their department. If you lose, they take you to medical, or in the case of medical, just treat you and throw you out. If you come back, you are fully valid for round removal. If they chase you down outside of the department after your revival, where you have done nothing to them since your death, you are free to use force against them. If you kill security for trying to arrest you after stealing, you are self antagging. Tiding into a department absolutely makes you the instigator. And if keeping your supplies behind multiple access restricted doors and windows isn't considered securing, then what is ?

Literally all of this is covered under escalation policy, this thread doesn't create any new or meaningful policy, and players need to apply escalation policy if this is such an issue. Tiders won't come back if they're more likely to leave in a body bag than with shiny new gamer gear.
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My post was in response to the OP, but yeah I agree with everything you said.
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Re: Greytiders and breaking into medical to steal shit

Post by Adam Klein » #624276

The whole point of this thread is to ask the headmins to use their config power to put a blurb on the title screen to remind players that rampant greytide is not allowed.
Jonathan Gupta wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 6:32 pm all you godamn do is whine and complain come up with ideas, stop bitching for christs sake.
Flatulent wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 1:02 am You and anyone who supports the rule 3 as described by mso is simply put not an lrp player
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Re: Greytiders and breaking into medical to steal shit

Post by GamerAndYeahMick » #624282

I approve of this and all good methods that admisitration can take to remind people they don't have to suffer in silence and can beat these peoples asses
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Re: Greytiders and breaking into medical to steal shit

Post by Valorium » #624314

I think it's a good idea. If people aren't aware of the rule, then it informs them and makes them more able to respond. If they are, it assures them that it won't be met with "IC issue" or anything regarding server culture. It's not a big pop-up window, it's just a small bit of text that we're not really using anyway.
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Re: Greytiders and breaking into medical to steal shit

Post by Pandarsenic » #624343

It also gives them something written to point to when admins bwoink anyway
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Re: Greytiders and breaking into medical to steal shit

Post by cacogen » #624359

just lock them in cryo bro
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Re: Greytiders and breaking into medical to steal shit

Post by Adam Klein » #624510

Most of the time players can’t out shit the shitters. So may as well let them know in an obvious place that this shit is not okay.
Jonathan Gupta wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 6:32 pm all you godamn do is whine and complain come up with ideas, stop bitching for christs sake.
Flatulent wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 1:02 am You and anyone who supports the rule 3 as described by mso is simply put not an lrp player
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Re: Greytiders and breaking into medical to steal shit

Post by Pandarsenic » #624530

Adam Klein wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 4:13 am Most of the time players can’t out shit the shitters. So may as well let them know in an obvious place that this shit is not okay.
The problem is, in my experience, that you're trying to do a job like healing people or reviving randos while the tider is fucking with you full time.
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Re: Greytiders and breaking into medical to steal shit

Post by YBS » #626526

Couldn't agree more that the countertide policy should be a roundstart blurb.

Enforce rule 1. Report rule 1 violations. If funny greyshirt is tableshoving your department mate over his [redacted] little meta-item, go lynch him.
On the other hand -- If you're not robust enough to fight and the idea of losing makes you want to tear your eyes out, you should probably not play LRP. You're just gonna have a bad time.
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Re: Greytiders and breaking into medical to steal shit

Post by Flatulent » #626530

>hobo comes in your house to steal shit
>you dont fight him back and instead wait for police to arrive and arrest them
>police says skill issue
>hobo escapes with your drip

THIS IS ACTUALLY A REAL LIFE SITUATION, THUS FULLY COMPLIANT WITH RP REGULATIONS
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Re: Greytiders and breaking into medical to steal shit

Post by Zybwivcz » #626870

The problem is that when it takes ten seconds or less to break through any door and combat is mostly who stuns/slips who first then anti-tiding your department is a full time job. Engineers can't simultaneously set up the SM and deal with tiders breaking doors to steal gloves and tools, doctors can't do surgeries while also fending off tiders breaking in to steal medicine and cause havoc. You either fight the tiders off effectively, which means not doing your job and also having to deal with the tiders coming back and using your resistance as an excuse to ratchet up the level of force, or let them steal and break stuff and make it impossible to do your job.
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Re: Greytiders and breaking into medical to steal shit

Post by GamerAndYeahMick » #626906

admins step in when excessive and issue bans, if someone is too unrobust to handle it ic admin should give them an instagib rifle with 1 bullet
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Re: Greytiders and breaking into medical to steal shit

Post by iamgoofball » #627043

i just got fucking murdered by a greytider in medbay who stole my shoes and stole medical supplies then accused me of having an e-sword over comms and decapitated me when i attacked them for greytiding my department

admins ruled it IC issue lmfao, because "i attacked them first" because they had stolen from me and i tried to get it back by attacking them

the admins will not help you against greytiders no matter what anyone in this thread claims
Last edited by iamgoofball on Tue Jan 25, 2022 1:50 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Greytiders and breaking into medical to steal shit

Post by CMDR_Gungnir » #627048

iamgoofball wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 1:34 am i just got fucking murdered by a greytider in medbay who stole my shoes and stole medical supplies then accused me of having an e-sword over comms and decapitated me when i attacked them for greytiding my department

admins ruled it IC issue lmfao, because "i attacked them first" because they had stolen from me and i tried to get it back by attacking them

the admins will not help you against greytiders no matter what anyone in this thread claims
Sounds like grounds for an admin complaint tbh, unless said Tider was an antag.
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Re: Greytiders and breaking into medical to steal shit

Post by thomanthewise5404 » #627050

iamgoofball wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 1:34 am i just got fucking murdered by a greytider in medbay who stole my shoes and stole medical supplies then accused me of having an e-sword over comms and decapitated me when i attacked them for greytiding my department

admins ruled it IC issue lmfao, because "i attacked them first" because they had stolen from me and i tried to get it back by attacking them

the admins will not help you against greytiders no matter what anyone in this thread claims
admins wont ban lucy cicero because they're in the sybil metagang, sad but true
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Re: Greytiders and breaking into medical to steal shit

Post by iamgoofball » #627051

CMDR_Gungnir wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 3:21 am
iamgoofball wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 1:34 am i just got fucking murdered by a greytider in medbay who stole my shoes and stole medical supplies then accused me of having an e-sword over comms and decapitated me when i attacked them for greytiding my department

admins ruled it IC issue lmfao, because "i attacked them first" because they had stolen from me and i tried to get it back by attacking them

the admins will not help you against greytiders no matter what anyone in this thread claims
Sounds like grounds for an admin complaint tbh, unless said Tider was an antag.
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Re: Greytiders and breaking into medical to steal shit

Post by sinfulbliss » #627058

Adam Klein wrote: Sat Jan 08, 2022 4:19 am maybe throwing something up about ahelping if the invader uses force against the property owner as a non antagonist.
This is incorrect. If you attack the greytider for stealing, they are allowed to attack back.
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Re: Greytiders and breaking into medical to steal shit

Post by iamgoofball » #627080

sinfulbliss wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 8:07 am
Adam Klein wrote: Sat Jan 08, 2022 4:19 am maybe throwing something up about ahelping if the invader uses force against the property owner as a non antagonist.
This is incorrect. If you attack the greytider for stealing, they are allowed to attack back.
ya, despite what the admins in this thread said, current official admin ruling is "if the greytider is attacked for their theft, they can murder the person who tried to stop them".
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Re: Greytiders and breaking into medical to steal shit

Post by Sylphet » #627088

iamgoofball wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 10:27 am ya, despite what the admins in this thread said, current official admin ruling is "if the greytider is attacked for their theft, they can murder the person who tried to stop them".
Yeah, that's correct policy at the moment. The thing is that they can't round remove for it, and my original post was super unclear on that - I meant kill as permanently kill. A greytider who gets attacked for their tiding is required to take the body to medical. Given that this happens in medical, that part is already done. Escalating in this case means that you have very little to lose, if the tider round removes you by dumping your body in a locker, hiding your head, or in any way makes it harder to revive you, they're violating a rule and will catch a ban for it.
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Re: Greytiders and breaking into medical to steal shit

Post by Adam Klein » #627105

Sylphet wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 12:07 pm
iamgoofball wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 10:27 am ya, despite what the admins in this thread said, current official admin ruling is "if the greytider is attacked for their theft, they can murder the person who tried to stop them".
Yeah, that's correct policy at the moment. The thing is that they can't round remove for it, and my original post was super unclear on that - I meant kill as permanently kill. A greytider who gets attacked for their tiding is required to take the body to medical. Given that this happens in medical, that part is already done. Escalating in this case means that you have very little to lose, if the tider round removes you by dumping your body in a locker, hiding your head, or in any way makes it harder to revive you, they're violating a rule and will catch a ban for it.
I have an anecdotal experience where the opposite was true. I was headbanned for a month because I beat a greytider to softcrit as the CMO, then healed them and threw them out of medbay. The rules as they currently stand, protect the greytider more than the people defending their property.
Jonathan Gupta wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 6:32 pm all you godamn do is whine and complain come up with ideas, stop bitching for christs sake.
Flatulent wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 1:02 am You and anyone who supports the rule 3 as described by mso is simply put not an lrp player
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Re: Greytiders and breaking into medical to steal shit

Post by iamgoofball » #627184

Sylphet wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 12:07 pm
iamgoofball wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 10:27 am ya, despite what the admins in this thread said, current official admin ruling is "if the greytider is attacked for their theft, they can murder the person who tried to stop them".
Yeah, that's correct policy at the moment. The thing is that they can't round remove for it, and my original post was super unclear on that - I meant kill as permanently kill. A greytider who gets attacked for their tiding is required to take the body to medical. Given that this happens in medical, that part is already done. Escalating in this case means that you have very little to lose, if the tider round removes you by dumping your body in a locker, hiding your head, or in any way makes it harder to revive you, they're violating a rule and will catch a ban for it.
it's really fucked because like, yeah, they didn't technically round remove you, your decapitated head is in medbay still, but lmao they decapitated two doctors, stole all the supplies, and made off with the protolathe board

if the greytider killed the only competent doctor there's a good chance you're not getting revived period, or if you are getting revived it's 5 minutes before the shuttle docks
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Re: Greytiders and breaking into medical to steal shit

Post by PwntQ » #627275

iamgoofball wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 10:25 pm
it's really fucked because like, yeah, they didn't technically round remove you, your decapitated head is in medbay still, but lmao they decapitated two doctors, stole all the supplies, and made off with the protolathe board

if the greytider killed the only competent doctor there's a good chance you're not getting revived period, or if you are getting revived it's 5 minutes before the shuttle docks
This. its 100% this. Medbay defends itself, get murdered, bodies just left there and no one ever does anything, then chef comes in 10 minutes later and you're a burger.

Or they beat you into crit, steal all your stuff, now you can't access any medbay doors and you've lost your box of surgery tools.
Or you're the only medbay staff fighting the tiders, and you get one down but you can't non lethally remove them due to no cuffs and the other tiders turn and 3v1 you.
Or you refuse medical aid to a tider you already kicked out, so his buddy stun locks you and steals your shit to fix them theirself, then kill you when you try to fight him for your shit back.

Someone already said medbay staff are bad at their job and thats why people steal, but whos competent that wants to play medbay when you just get tided? You know that even when you do defeat and kill the tider, escalation rules means you'd just have to revive them. And they will come back with a stun baton or a friend, usually both, and kill you 90% of the time.
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Re: Greytiders and breaking into medical to steal shit

Post by Flatulent » #627312

escalation allows you to kill them
its also securitys job to throw them out
those are entirely ic issues and i dont understand your problem with this
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Re: Greytiders and breaking into medical to steal shit

Post by Helios » #627371

If you are running low on medical supplies in medbay, get chemistry to do their job, get roboticists to make more medbots, or order more medpacks from cargo.
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Re: Greytiders and breaking into medical to steal shit

Post by iamgoofball » #627400

Flatulent wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 11:05 am escalation allows you to kill them
its also securitys job to throw them out
those are entirely ic issues and i dont understand your problem with this
Security doesn't handle greytide on any server except Manuel
People who sign up to.play doctor shouldn't have to be super robust murder machines to be allowed to heal people uninterrupted
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Re: Greytiders and breaking into medical to steal shit

Post by Adam Klein » #627592

iamgoofball wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 8:34 pm
Flatulent wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 11:05 am escalation allows you to kill them
its also securitys job to throw them out
those are entirely ic issues and i dont understand your problem with this
Security doesn't handle greytide on any server except Manuel
People who sign up to.play doctor shouldn't have to be super robust murder machines to be allowed to heal people uninterrupted
Hopefully this will be solved by the Rule 3 thread
Jonathan Gupta wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 6:32 pm all you godamn do is whine and complain come up with ideas, stop bitching for christs sake.
Flatulent wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 1:02 am You and anyone who supports the rule 3 as described by mso is simply put not an lrp player
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Re: Greytiders and breaking into medical to steal shit

Post by Flatulent » #627993

iamgoofball wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 8:34 pm
Flatulent wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 11:05 am escalation allows you to kill them
its also securitys job to throw them out
those are entirely ic issues and i dont understand your problem with this
Security doesn't handle greytide on any server except Manuel
People who sign up to.play doctor shouldn't have to be super robust murder machines to be allowed to heal people uninterrupted
maybe you should actually make security do their job instead of hunting valids with ic protection, as in put in minimal effort to solve crimes (det), stay in the fucking brig (warden), actually arrive when crew asks for help other than ‘HELP DYING MAINT’ (security officer), and make HOS actually have a role in making security officers do their work instead of being a security officer with better gear and access
Mothblocks, winter 2020, “successfully” preventing bagil death with relevant data wrote:You seem to be under the fallacy that reinforcing that Bagil is a TDM shithole where you must carry bolas and spears on you at all times, while looking for the next valid to hunt down is a positive change to the server. I don't. The data suggests other people don't.
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Re: Greytiders and breaking into medical to steal shit

Post by NamelessFairy » #632585

Excessive greytiding is already forbidden by rule 1 and we encourage you to ahelp it if you think someone is tiding your department excessively.

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