Traitortide Stationwide (dynamic gamemode overhaul)

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waterfleainc
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Traitortide Stationwide (dynamic gamemode overhaul)

Post by waterfleainc » #641712

Hello I am Maggey Byrde from Manuel

Ever since the recent changes to the dynamic gamemode, lowpop is a complete shitshow. Often, a third of the crew is a traitor or becomes one during the round.

This is hurting science and service players who just want to enjoy the game. Every round, service/science players:

1) have to act concerned about red hardsuit man raiding their workplace/doors to secure areas being doorjacked/blood being everywhere even though this happens every round
2) are distracted too much from using intended game mechanics to do their job and maybe discover something fun and new they have never seen or experienced before and being rewarded for it with that feeling we all know. (because they probably have at least one traitor in their department)

Security is usually overwhelmed.
This causes problems for everyone, because sec players will just stop doing RP when they are under constant attack. Stun first, talk later. No record managing. No space law sentancing. DEFINENTLY no time for lawyer players to interact with them or even having a trial.
Which is sad! Because security roleplay has great potential for fun, for everyone! (and is intended by the mappers making interrogation rooms, sec outposts, etc cetera) :donut2:

Final words, giving out antag tokens like candy devalues the whole experience. That radio voice, the codewords, ringing in your ear. Adrenaline shooting through your veins: you are the traitor.
It's just not the same when there are five other traitors along with you and little resistance if any. It's just really sad.

Please consider increasing the threat cost of traitor and midround traitor considerably to make tg station a fairer battlefield for the benifit of everyone, especially those who do not play for the PVP aspect. :engie: :newcop: :honkman:
Last edited by waterfleainc on Sun May 22, 2022 3:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Traitortide Stationwide (dynamic gamemode overhaul)

Post by Shadowflame909 » #641716

you will play the intense ss13 with antags on MRP

and you will like it!!!!! :ugeek: :unknownman: :toysword:
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Re: Traitortide Stationwide (dynamic gamemode overhaul)

Post by Pandarsenic » #641717

This happened on Sybil a few nights ago, too, when I was an AI.

As you can see, we had:

1 Captain, 0 Security
1 AI with 1 Borg

Roundstart: 2 traitors, 1 Thief
Late Traitor: 4 traitors

8 other nonantagonists

Of 18 players, 7 were antagonists, or 38% (of which 2, the Cap and Borg, simply could not be antags anyway). Of players who could actually get antag, that becomes 43% of players who could theoretically be (or become) antags who did.

I'm going to repeat a thing I've said before, Threat cost of antagonists should probably scale based on how many living+connected sec players there are.
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Re: Traitortide Stationwide (dynamic gamemode overhaul)

Post by toemas » #641796

please do not fucking increase the threat cost of traitor/midround, this is not a job sim
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Re: Traitortide Stationwide (dynamic gamemode overhaul)

Post by blackdav123 » #641829

on one hand I do hate having back to back rounds of syndie station and getting bodied by the 4 emagged borgs and 5 traitors all being buddies but being dead definitely beats rounds of being bored out of my mind waiting for at least one of the antags to do something evil

prog traitor certainly isnt helping because all 5 of the living people on station are traitors playing a scavenger hunt with items to bug so they can keep recalling until it is time to buy a shuttle and leave at the two hour mark
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Re: Traitortide Stationwide (dynamic gamemode overhaul)

Post by Pandarsenic » #641833

Scale the Threat cost of new antags with living+connected sec players so that if people want to hunt valids they actually have to have people dedicated to hunting valids instead of a few traitors being able to do literally whatever with no real opposition
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Re: Traitortide Stationwide (dynamic gamemode overhaul)

Post by massa » #641987

there is a much better solution than "MAKE IT COST MORE"

this threat change has been good for the game
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Re: Traitortide Stationwide (dynamic gamemode overhaul)

Post by waterfleainc » #641993

thomanthewise5404 wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 10:37 pm please do not fucking increase the threat cost of traitor/midround, this is not a job sim
I want to respond to this because I recognise that this is a common sentiment among players and has to be respected.

While LRP players will have to adjust how they react to situations due to the recent uptick in chaos each round, they will still be able to carry on a lot like before with an "optional" approach to RP.

It's just that /tg/station manuel, a server with a large population of regular players who play specifically for the roleplaying element, are having to adjust their playstyles considerably in ways they might not want to, I mean, roleplay is the reason you play on MRP, after all.

tl;dr It might not be a job sim for LRP players, it's definenlty not a PVP fighting game either
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Re: Traitortide Stationwide (dynamic gamemode overhaul)

Post by Vladoricious » #642006

On Manuel you regularly have 0 security players. On a lucky day, 1 or 2. Usually no real captain, just an acting. You end up with like half of the crew being traitors, with a dragon here and a blob there. Your acting captain is a traitor. All the traitors are killing simplemobs and placing tiny little bugs everywhere for infinite TC. On top of infinite TC, they have access to more gear than ever before, such as the previously nukie-locked elite suit. On TOP of that, traitors can increase the threat of the round via hacking the comms console, adding even more antags to the round. Did I forget to mention discounts are still a thing? I saw someone get a holoparasite for 4 TC the other day. 4 TC is nothing, ESPECIALLY when you have effectively infinite TC. Security, when it does exist, is extremely overwhelmed. No one wants to play security anymore, because the antagonists keep getting stronger and security keeps getting nerfed. It isn't fun anymore. Every single round feels like an impending doom round. Progressive traitor and the dynamic changes have made an awful experience.
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Re: Traitortide Stationwide (dynamic gamemode overhaul)

Post by Misdoubtful » #642013

I had brought this up when the port had first come here, had been considered for what it could become, and was being worked on.

The original port tracked sec job slot numbers to keep the number of sec 'in mind' when creating /rolling certain antag types.

That function made it here, and many antag types will not roll if sec/cap (and silicons for one or two) numbers are not present in relation to threat range.

That being said maybe something more could be done in regards to it keeping track of and maintaining some configurable ratio over time of living crew 'enemies' vs living antags.
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Re: Traitortide Stationwide (dynamic gamemode overhaul)

Post by massa » #642020

waterfleainc wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 2:20 pm
thomanthewise5404 wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 10:37 pm please do not fucking increase the threat cost of traitor/midround, this is not a job sim
I want to respond to this because I recognise that this is a common sentiment among players and has to be respected.

While LRP players will have to adjust how they react to situations due to the recent uptick in chaos each round, they will still be able to carry on a lot like before with an "optional" approach to RP.

It's just that /tg/station manuel, a server with a large population of regular players who play specifically for the roleplaying element, are having to adjust their playstyles considerably in ways they might not want to, I mean, roleplay is the reason you play on MRP, after all.

tl;dr It might not be a job sim for LRP players, it's definenlty not a PVP fighting game either
just have thresholds for low population? lol

why salt the whole earth for something so specific and easily solved?
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Re: Traitortide Stationwide (dynamic gamemode overhaul)

Post by waterfleainc » #642024

massa wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 4:57 pm
I am definently saying that the cost should be raised. If a server-specific change is at all possible, they should do it right away so MRP becomes bearable again.
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Re: Traitortide Stationwide (dynamic gamemode overhaul)

Post by massa » #642028

MRP is not a job simulator. MRP would be perfect if it had LRP levels of mortal danger, chaos and engagement. Imagine wanting to build a borg on your RP server instead of manage and die dramatically in a romerol outbreak on your RP server.
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Re: Traitortide Stationwide (dynamic gamemode overhaul)

Post by toemas » #642100

waterfleainc wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 2:20 pm garbage
The game doesnt need to be a slow-paced, boring, and safe, for you to be able to roleplay, conflict is what generates interesting rounds, which is what makes for good roleplay. Read: "paranoia-laden nonsensical, metal death trap" If you just want to do job content and bar rp then go play on many of the other servers and codebases that will cater to you
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Re: Traitortide Stationwide (dynamic gamemode overhaul)

Post by toemas » #642101

Vladoricious wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 3:12 pm No one wants to play security anymore, because the antagonists keep getting stronger and security keeps getting nerfed.
do manuel players not know how to use stunbatons?
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Re: Traitortide Stationwide (dynamic gamemode overhaul)

Post by Pandarsenic » #642123

https://scrubby.melonmesa.com/round/183763

One HOP
One AI
One borg

Counting them, 21 players who were in the round at any point

1 Thief and 7 Traitors

Image

90% of these incidents appear to be "Try to role a heavier ruleset, fail, default to Sleeper Agent"

It's just a bit much for these no-sec rounds.
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Re: Traitortide Stationwide (dynamic gamemode overhaul)

Post by waterfleainc » #642134

massa wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 5:35 pm MRP is not a job simulator. MRP would be perfect if it had LRP levels of mortal danger, chaos and engagement. Imagine wanting to build a borg on your RP server instead of manage and die dramatically in a romerol outbreak on your RP server.
Watching your colleagues (or other players, if you preferr that term) kill pets and bug offices does not generate mortal danger, chaos, or engagement. It's not even fun for traitors, especially since you get traitor every second round. Even if they suit up in a red hardsuit and run around, this does not make the round more enjoyable for a non-antag/sec(but you won't get killed 4noreason at least, murderbone rules). Blob, heretic, ling, these are the sort of antags you'll want, but their minimum pop is pretty high.

You have a very skewed view of the game if you think it's about traitor PVP and everyone else just does nothing instead of interacting with the literally hundreds of mechanics being updated and added weekly. Something like 90% of pull requests are about job mechanics. If you still think this is a PVP game, I won't try to change your mind.

Try fulpstation some time you might enjoy it.
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Re: Traitortide Stationwide (dynamic gamemode overhaul)

Post by Nabski » #642138

Had a fun round last night.
1 Thief. (Who mostly was afk, as the previous round they traitored until they had 140 TC)
1 Traitor. (Who got up to solid xenobiology stuff and generally ran the station)
1 Space Wizard. (Blinking, rodding, trash talking, and a wand belt/charge spell)
1 Admin that eventually spawned themselves in to shittalk/shoot the wizard then vanished.

Total players online, 4.

100% antag rate, no complaints about it. I was the thief and had to go grab boots once the shuttle was called but almost forgot about it completely. Couldn't even wear them as I was a cult golem.
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Re: Traitortide Stationwide (dynamic gamemode overhaul)

Post by warbluke » #642165

Nabski wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 6:34 pm Had a fun round last night.
1 Thief. (Who mostly was afk, as the previous round they traitored until they had 140 TC)
1 Traitor. (Who got up to solid xenobiology stuff and generally ran the station)
1 Space Wizard. (Blinking, rodding, trash talking, and a wand belt/charge spell)
1 Admin that eventually spawned themselves in to shittalk/shoot the wizard then vanished.

Total players online, 4.

100% antag rate, no complaints about it. I was the thief and had to go grab boots once the shuttle was called but almost forgot about it completely. Couldn't even wear them as I was a cult golem.
I was the wizard, it was the first time I got to play it in two years. If whatever dynamic change got added lets me play wizard more it's cool.
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Re: Traitortide Stationwide (dynamic gamemode overhaul)

Post by Pandarsenic » #642207

I spent basically the entire day straight on Sybil and I would loosely say that the problem of an overabundance of low-threat antags becomes significantly lesser at highpop... but at lowpop it is nigh-unmanageable.
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Re: Traitortide Stationwide (dynamic gamemode overhaul)

Post by Mothblocks » #642224

Increasing threat cost will not do what you think it will do.

I'm also not really interested in either:

A. Removing/adding chance to "spawn light ruleset if heavy ruleset fails", because a huge part of the PR was that that does not work
B. Adding in factors like # of security, which would only serve to increase complexity about when a ruleset rolls, which would also need to be balanced around the fact that antagonists, even big ones, should still spawn without security and oh hey look at that we're just doing A again

What you probably want is for the number of midround rolls to be decreased. Dynamic 2022 Part 1 makes midround rolls a guarantee and equidistantly spaced across the round. This is because the previous system regularly barely rolled at all, and midround threat cost did not scale at all--20 midround threat was basically the same as 60.

It's on my radar, but I'm not totally convinced on a lot of the arguments I see.

Consider the following, with the grain of salt that I do not play Manuel:

1. Chaos is not an inhibitor for roleplay.

SS13 is only a game about doing your job so much as it is your IC motivation for being there. But when push comes to shove, SS13 is a game about surviving. Great stories come from great conflict. (Also, sometimes dying for the sake of the story). When the shuttle is called, it should not be because you were bored or because there's no work left to do--it's because you're overwhelmed, the crew is dead, and it's at the point where you consider it an emergency.

When I read that you're too distracted to do your job because of antagonists, I'm not sure why my takeaway on that should be negative.

Given that progression traitors have capped the power level of an individual traitor, it's not too bad to put a good amount of them in, especially given the fact that the traitors come in over the span of a little under an hour and a half.

2. No external data seems to be negative

I am fairly active in the Manuel discord and read complaints, but at the end of the day, Dynamic 2022 is doing its job given the fact that every time I see some "bad" round get posted, the round length is still about an hour and a half (or more!) in length. Sybil too, more frequently! If the rounds are so frustrating to play with all the antagonists, then why are people willingly staying for so long? That's not rhetorical and it's not meant to be snarky, it's meant to mean that round time has been a consistently good measure for analyzing that the amount of chaos is in that sweet spot. Manuel rounds historically like to get in the 2 to 3 hour mark, which we don't want as much as we don't want thirty minute rounds--it is a signifier that the amount of chaos is not right, and the shuttle is being called based upon "we've been here for too long" more than it is for any story driven reason.

TL;DR for #2 -- For all intents and purposes, everything I see shows that it's working.

3. No security isn't something I want to be unnoticeable (TRIPLE NEGATIVE COMBO)

There's a few failsafes for sub-20 pop, but security numbers are intentionally ignored in Dynamic. One aforementioned reason is complexity. Dynamic used to have a lot of factors that made it horrifically confusing for even me to understand what the hell was going on when a roll would pass or fail. We recently had Campbell which just didn't roll any antagonists at all and no amount of debugging helped out. If Dynamic is hard to understand even for me, then we are screwed in terms of actually being able to balance the black box.

The other is that this is the same way we treat every other department in the game, at least we'd like to. No engineering means no power. No medbay means everyone has to treat themselves. No science means no research without going out of your way to do it. No mining means no minerals. No mime means no ...

And no security means that antagonists have an upper hand on the crew.

When a department does not exist, historically we have never balanced in favor of it. We give tools to help you manage the problem to some extent, but a medkit is no substitute for surgery.

And there are plenty of tools for defense in Space Station 13. As a Manuel player, do not fall into the belief that security should be the only people handling antagonists. When push comes to shove, SS13 is about surviving amidst chaos. Don't valid hunt, don't power game, but if you know there are antagonists across the station...
knowing there have been murders occurring across the station, and grabbing a stunprod while you go to fix wires in maint is fine.
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Re: Traitortide Stationwide (dynamic gamemode overhaul)

Post by Jackraxxus » #642326

I don't think increasing costs is a good way to go, but I think there should be some kinda limit on the antag to crew ratio. I'm fairly sure this used to be a thing, or at least it was more severe?
Having 50% of living players be traitors isn't the most fun thing in the world imo.

This way you can like trickle antags into the station rather than having them all gaming at once.
You have one traitor go in and die, then the ratio goes back to being the crew's favor and it immediately sends in a new one. Like have it store midrounds for when the ratio is good. idk.
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Re: Traitortide Stationwide (dynamic gamemode overhaul)

Post by waterfleainc » #642327

Mothblocks wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 3:21 pm
It's on my radar, but I'm not totally convinced on a lot of the arguments I see.
Hello,
I think that there is a lot of fun to be extracted from the many job mechanics we have and you're wrong about players who do not anticipate getting antag to play the game just so they can start robusting antags as soon as the chaos starts, but not before, because that would mean that they violate server rules. Even if these powergamers exists they are less preveillant on MRP.

In addition, it is really sad to play security in a meta where they just get villified and dunked on by superior gear and numbers every round. RP mechanics break down as soon as the traitors start openly killing people.

If you really think that this is/should be tg station culture or some other thing referencing the "metal death trap" synopsis of the game, I suggest you remove evidence closets, prisoner jumpsuits, the entire space law wiki page, red folders, pens, and the commenting system on sec records.

All these mechanics have been added to the game to allow for players to play as "spess police" and right now it just feels like cannonfodder because even if the sec records are managed perfectly and you might tie the murder in engineering to the mime who'se glove fibers were on the maintenance door, you still die to the desword.

Lastly, if you ask why people are not just calling the shuttle, well, that would be metagaming. "let's call now before midround sleeper agents wake up" is not something you want people to spout IC, is it? And if you're a humble non-antag botanist there is nothing you can do to call the shuttle. You are totally at the mercy of traitors, I assure you that an unequal playing field like that does not generate the best roleplay.
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Re: Traitortide Stationwide (dynamic gamemode overhaul)

Post by Mothblocks » #642328

waterfleainc wrote: Fri May 27, 2022 10:53 am
Mothblocks wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 3:21 pm
It's on my radar, but I'm not totally convinced on a lot of the arguments I see.
Hello,
I think that there is a lot of fun to be extracted from the many job mechanics we have and you're wrong about players who do not anticipate getting antag to play the game just so they can start robusting antags as soon as the chaos starts, but not before, because that would mean that they violate server rules. Even if these powergamers exists they are less preveillant on MRP.
Sorry but I literally do not know what any of this is meant to refer to, it doesn't appear to relate to a single thing I said in my post.
waterfleainc wrote: Fri May 27, 2022 10:53 am In addition, it is really sad to play security in a meta where they just get villified and dunked on by superior gear and numbers every round. RP mechanics break down as soon as the traitors start openly killing people.
I really don't think this is true from my experience, but also it seems to be an argument against antagonists in general, aside from the "numbers" aspect. Does a traitor having better weapons than you harm roleplay? Hell, cult and revs both have large numbers, but chaotic roleplay blooming from them is not unheard of.
waterfleainc wrote: Fri May 27, 2022 10:53 am If you really think that this is/should be tg station culture or some other thing referencing the "metal death trap" synopsis of the game, I suggest you remove evidence closets, prisoner jumpsuits, the entire space law wiki page, red folders, pens, and the commenting system on sec records.
I don't think this is a good faith argument, but in case it's not obvious enough by how many times I bring it up in my post--roleplay and stories are at the core of SS13, and conflict breeds good stories.
waterfleainc wrote: Fri May 27, 2022 10:53 am All these mechanics have been added to the game to allow for players to play as "spess police" and right now it just feels like cannonfodder because even if the sec records are managed perfectly and you might tie the murder in engineering to the mime who'se glove fibers were on the maintenance door, you still die to the desword.
This still feels like an attempt to argue against multiple antagonists at all. All of this applies to...two traitors in a round.
waterfleainc wrote: Fri May 27, 2022 10:53 am Lastly, if you ask why people are not just calling the shuttle, well, that would be metagaming. "let's call now before midround sleeper agents wake up" is not something you want people to spout IC, is it?
You misunderstood what I meant completely.

The point I was making is the shuttle is called when people are overwhelmed and want to start a new round (among othe things). If Dynamic is not pacing the antagonists properly, then people get overwhelmed too fast and shuttles get called quicker. All of that is completely IC, and we saw it pre-Dynamic 2021 (not 2022) where it just threw like 10 antagonists round start and they killed everyone every round.
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Re: Traitortide Stationwide (dynamic gamemode overhaul)

Post by Farquaar » #642329

waterfleainc wrote: Fri May 27, 2022 10:53 amRP mechanics break down as soon as the traitors start openly killing people.
Wait, what?
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Re: Traitortide Stationwide (dynamic gamemode overhaul)

Post by Annihilite111 » #642377

Farquaar wrote: Fri May 27, 2022 11:58 am
waterfleainc wrote: Fri May 27, 2022 10:53 amRP mechanics break down as soon as the traitors start openly killing people.
Wait, what?
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Re: Traitortide Stationwide (dynamic gamemode overhaul)

Post by Pandarsenic » #642393

Mothblocks wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 3:21 pmIf the rounds are so frustrating to play with all the antagonists, then why are people willingly staying for so long?
Having to break up a particularly robust antag chain recalling has been a regular occurrence for me over the last few days, as we talked about recently. If the Dynamic roundset doesn't function without admin intervention because it generates traitors until one is good enough to kill the whole station and make it their eternal throne, that does seem to be a problem to me.

That said, other complaints I've seen include:
  • People you'd trusted earlier spontaneously become antags later with a painful frequency
  • With a roughly 30% chance of getting traitor in any given round, mostly because of how many Heavy rolls default to that specifically, becoming a Traitor doesn't have the excitement it used to. The more people who get tired with placing a bunch of bugs to be able to do stuff and turn Traitor off, the smaller the pool of people for late traitor... who in turn, are bludgeoned with it until it's tiresome.
  • To press the above with some real data, https://scrubby.melonmesa.com/ckey/Kidgenius702 no shade on our boy here but this player has, since the 21st, played 50 rounds, of which 24 have been antag rounds. 48% antag rounds!
  • They crowd each other. Even if you have a cool idea for a gimmick, you're limited by how far you can get with it before someone ELSE buys an esword and deprives you of anyone else to get involved (or worse, randomly kill you)
I know there are more but I didn't write them down at the time so I lost them.
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Re: Traitortide Stationwide (dynamic gamemode overhaul)

Post by Mothblocks » #642396

People you'd trusted earlier spontaneously become antags later with a painful frequency
I think I remember talking with MSO about this--this isn't necessarily a bad thing! I want more paranoia than I do murderboning. But also, it becomes less frequent as the round goes on, as Dynamic decides to throw in heavy rulesets like xenos, dragons, blobs, etc.
Shaps-cloud wrote: Mon Dec 07, 2020 7:59 am May eventually become one of the illusive maintainer-headmins if they choose to pursue that path, having a coder in the senior admin leadership has usually been positive for both sides in the past.
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Re: Traitortide Stationwide (dynamic gamemode overhaul)

Post by Mothblocks » #642399

One stat point I want to get is how many traitors in a round are from midrounds versus roundstart. I think roundstart traitor still spawns like 3ish traitors and so that is a potential point to adjust.
Shaps-cloud wrote: Mon Dec 07, 2020 7:59 am May eventually become one of the illusive maintainer-headmins if they choose to pursue that path, having a coder in the senior admin leadership has usually been positive for both sides in the past.
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Re: Traitortide Stationwide (dynamic gamemode overhaul)

Post by Pandarsenic » #642402

Mothblocks wrote: Fri May 27, 2022 10:47 pm
People you'd trusted earlier spontaneously become antags later with a painful frequency
I think I remember talking with MSO about this--this isn't necessarily a bad thing! I want more paranoia than I do murderboning. But also, it becomes less frequent as the round goes on, as Dynamic decides to throw in heavy rulesets like xenos, dragons, blobs, etc.
A lot of time in the early mornings or late nights is at populations where the heavy rulesets never pop, so you end up with a peak of 18 carbons on manifest with 8 traitors and 2 thieves, plus 2 subverted silicons (I'm thinking of this specific round because I was excited for the first true 50% antag station I caught). I'm not sure what the heavy threshold was, but it isn't getting met... but just continuing to factory out one traitor like clockwork at every roll gets both tiresome and predictable.

Is it really paranoia if you can expect that, whenever you can see two people, if you're not a traitor one of them is?

Previously, the selling point of the paranoia was "Most people are fine, but a few aren't, and those people can fuck you up and you have precious few defenses."

At lowpop, now, it's "Everyone around me is a goddamn traitor, and if I have to go to medical for treatment, the doctor will be a traitor too."
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Re: Traitortide Stationwide (dynamic gamemode overhaul)

Post by waterfleainc » #642446

Pandarsenic wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 12:03 am
Mothblocks wrote: Fri May 27, 2022 10:47 pm
People you'd trusted earlier spontaneously become antags later with a painful frequency
I think I remember talking with MSO about this--this isn't necessarily a bad thing! I want more paranoia than I do murderboning. But also, it becomes less frequent as the round goes on, as Dynamic decides to throw in heavy rulesets like xenos, dragons, blobs, etc.
A lot of time in the early mornings or late nights is at populations where the heavy rulesets never pop, so you end up with a peak of 18 carbons on manifest with 8 traitors and 2 thieves, plus 2 subverted silicons (I'm thinking of this specific round because I was excited for the first true 50% antag station I caught). I'm not sure what the heavy threshold was, but it isn't getting met... but just continuing to factory out one traitor like clockwork at every roll gets both tiresome and predictable.

Is it really paranoia if you can expect that, whenever you can see two people, if you're not a traitor one of them is?

Previously, the selling point of the paranoia was "Most people are fine, but a few aren't, and those people can fuck you up and you have precious few defenses."

At lowpop, now, it's "Everyone around me is a goddamn traitor, and if I have to go to medical for treatment, the doctor will be a traitor too."
this
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Re: Traitortide Stationwide (dynamic gamemode overhaul)

Post by waterfleainc » #642448

is this the kind of paranoia you want? I played my last round today, this stuff is not my kind of fun.

Edit: I might play just a little
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Re: Traitortide Stationwide (dynamic gamemode overhaul)

Post by Pandarsenic » #642454

Bonus round of the day: I had to remove antag from the same player who requested it twice

in one round

Edit: Also, same on the "traitor acting captains only" unless a real captain shows.
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Re: Traitortide Stationwide (dynamic gamemode overhaul)

Post by Rhials » #642457

TC have become so abundant and worthless on Manuel that they're being used as maint hideout decor. I know this is just an anecdotal screenshot from a single round, but its pretty representative of how Manuel is responding to the ridiculous increase in lowpop antags.

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Re: Traitortide Stationwide (dynamic gamemode overhaul)

Post by Annihilite111 » #642467

Pandarsenic wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 5:02 pm Bonus round of the day: I had to remove antag from the same player who requested it twice

in one round

Edit: Also, same on the "traitor acting captains only" unless a real captain shows.
Thanks for the heretic trades today pandar. It was a much needed changeup from the endless WEW LAD.
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Re: Traitortide Stationwide (dynamic gamemode overhaul)

Post by Pandarsenic » #642488

Annihilite111 wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 7:10 pm
Pandarsenic wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 5:02 pm Bonus round of the day: I had to remove antag from the same player who requested it twice

in one round

Edit: Also, same on the "traitor acting captains only" unless a real captain shows.
Thanks for the heretic trades today pandar. It was a much needed changeup from the endless WEW LAD.
You are 100% welcome, and for anyone else who sees me on, I will take basically ANY trade from someone who doesn't want to be a traitor right now.
(But I didn't even mean that, one dude was like "I just want a normal round I think," I went "k" and handled it, and then half an hour later "Hi Pandar this is awkward but I need you to un-traitor me again!")

Also, some Curious behaviors I've noticed recently:
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Re: Traitortide Stationwide (dynamic gamemode overhaul)

Post by oranges » #642510

Pandarsenic wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 5:02 pm Bonus round of the day: I had to remove antag from the same player who requested it twice

in one round

Edit: Also, same on the "traitor acting captains only" unless a real captain shows.
the only complaint you sould have here is with teh person who has antags enabled but doesn't want to be an antag.
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Re: Traitortide Stationwide (dynamic gamemode overhaul)

Post by Shadowflame909 » #642511

There is a dynamic problem here!

The problem is that MRP doesnt have enough antags outside of traitor on lowpop, which can lead to staleness

Maybe its time to bring back roundstart side-antags. (Revenants, morphs, abductors. Looking at you guys)
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Re: Traitortide Stationwide (dynamic gamemode overhaul)

Post by Mothblocks » #643241

Here is step 1 of some adjustments made to keep the antagonists in a round predictable: https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/67538

I want this change, and then in Dynamic 2022 part 2 the number of roundstart traitors is going to get decreased, but at the end of the day you will have at least double the amount of antagonists you had prior to Dynamic 2022, because the midround system literally did not work properly prior to this. That is to say, you can expect less antagonists than you have today, but you should still expect more than you had originally.
Shaps-cloud wrote: Mon Dec 07, 2020 7:59 am May eventually become one of the illusive maintainer-headmins if they choose to pursue that path, having a coder in the senior admin leadership has usually been positive for both sides in the past.
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Re: Traitortide Stationwide (dynamic gamemode overhaul)

Post by Mothblocks » #643242

Also probably lowering max threat on low pop but that's just a number change so it's not as interesting
Shaps-cloud wrote: Mon Dec 07, 2020 7:59 am May eventually become one of the illusive maintainer-headmins if they choose to pursue that path, having a coder in the senior admin leadership has usually been positive for both sides in the past.
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Re: Traitortide Stationwide (dynamic gamemode overhaul)

Post by waterfleainc » #644976

Hey so I replied to the wrong post earlier. I thank mothblocks for taking my feedback seriously. Either way, at the end of the day I'm still indebted to all you maintainers for maintaining the game and all. Because right now it's not that great and the rounds can be seriously annoying wastes of time.

Sec needs to become somewhat of a threat again so it's more fun to antag. Nothing is fun without the chance of being caught. :donut2:
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Re: Traitortide Stationwide (dynamic gamemode overhaul)

Post by Mothblocks » #644979

One thing I want to make is a web panel for myself to see the pacings of these rounds, like when people are dying etc--that round shows a more than 2 hour long round, so it still seems off to me!
Shaps-cloud wrote: Mon Dec 07, 2020 7:59 am May eventually become one of the illusive maintainer-headmins if they choose to pursue that path, having a coder in the senior admin leadership has usually been positive for both sides in the past.
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