Toxins gating is way too tough

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Shadowflame909
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Toxins gating is way too tough

Post by Shadowflame909 » #642589

I haven't seen phazons or the two BOH reactions in a year.

Whens the last time you've seen an end-game anomaly item?

I understand why things are like this. But when the gating mechanic itself is a powerful mechanic (Bomb making) it only leads to it being changed everytime the playerbase can figure it out.

Should definitely be changed to something else, or have some sort of alternative that temporarily unlocks end-game anomaly content.
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Re: Toxins gating is way too tough

Post by Pandarsenic » #642591

It's not that it's tough, it's that it's fucking boring.

All the fun of toxins is in learning it, and occasionally in reducing the station to a swiss cheese mess.

It's actually incredibly easy to make an anomaly-grade bomb:

Dump 3 cans of oxygen into the burn chamber, trickle plasma in at 50 kPa in during the burn, set a canister to use power to contain high temperatures and pressures, set the burn chamber scrubber to only pull out plasma (and only turn it on when the monitor says it's reached 20k Kelvin or higher in the chamber).

Freeze a canister of oxygen to 43 Kelvin with a freezer, move it to an air pump.

Once you have your gasses prepped...
  • Use a scrubber to dump the contents out of a tank of each type.
  • Fill the Oxygen tank with the full 2533 kPa of low-temperature oxygen in the pump.
  • Fill the Plasma tank with as high as the canister can output.
You' have a bomb that should (unless I've missed an update) activate any core you need.

It's just b o r i n g as shit and you have to wait on uranium to upgrade your freezer, you have to wait on the burn to complete, you have to wait on the cores you order to arrive if you can even convince cargo/the RD to order them...
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Re: Toxins gating is way too tough

Post by Misdoubtful » #642602

I can say I've now seen exactly one boh come out of content gated toxins, and no phazons.

What would make toxins better than it currently is?

The content gate makes what is essentially baby atmos a requirement, but toxins doesn't get the plethora of toys and tools Atmos has gotten. Which is why I point to it and say babymos.

Atmos just does everything toxins does for gas mixing and creation but better. More resources, more space, more tools, hfr, more gas chambers, etc.

Is getting gases from Atmos a solution?

Picture a world where Atmos has the ttvs and everything else found uniquely in toxins with the same content gating. Would it be too tough in that environment?

Now ask yourself: would toxins be in a better place if these gas mixing and creation tools that Atmos gets went to them instead?

Is it tough because it's condensed, constricted and minimalist in comparison, whilst having to make more?

Not that any of this is a bad thing... Just food for thought.
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Re: Toxins gating is way too tough

Post by NoxVS » #642607

Toxins as a whole is just not enjoyable. Any replacement would be a massive improvement
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Re: Toxins gating is way too tough

Post by sinfulbliss » #642619

Strongly agree. RCDs are way too necessary for repairing large swaths of damaged hull to gate behind BZ production, something which less than 5% of the playerbase could do. There is little chance toxins players bother doing this since they probably don't care about T2 tools like engineers would, which means it will simply never get done and T2 tools will fall into obscurity just like BoH and advanced weaponry has. The difference being RCDs are extremely useful for prolonging shuttle call in the event of big breaches, whereas advanced weaponry was just cool toys.

The further requirement of removing the BZ canister from xenobio, to force BZ production and make BZ more relevant, is even worse. BZ's primary function, and its only use to jobs, was to sedate slimes in the large pen so you could store them without them dying or escaping. There is a 0% chance toxins players are going to, as in vin's PR, "produce BZ for xenobiologists." It's simply not important enough to xenobios to be worth the trouble, which means they will simply cope without it. Reducing an entire gas to a simple experiment for R&D or to a precursor to more useful gasses is a really bad change.
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Re: Toxins gating is way too tough

Post by Shadowflame909 » #642621

now that you mention it gating station repair behind something the majority of the playerbase doesnt know how to or want to do when making it easier is a maintainer design doc goal does sound like a big mistake
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Re: Toxins gating is way too tough

Post by Pandarsenic » #642658

sinfulbliss wrote: Mon May 30, 2022 3:46 am Strongly agree. RCDs are way too necessary for repairing large swaths of damaged hull to gate behind BZ production, something which less than 5% of the playerbase could do. There is little chance toxins players bother doing this since they probably don't care about T2 tools like engineers would, which means it will simply never get done and T2 tools will fall into obscurity just like BoH and advanced weaponry has. The difference being RCDs are extremely useful for prolonging shuttle call in the event of big breaches, whereas advanced weaponry was just cool toys.

The further requirement of removing the BZ canister from xenobio, to force BZ production and make BZ more relevant, is even worse. BZ's primary function, and its only use to jobs, was to sedate slimes in the large pen so you could store them without them dying or escaping. There is a 0% chance toxins players are going to, as in vin's PR, "produce BZ for xenobiologists." It's simply not important enough to xenobios to be worth the trouble, which means they will simply cope without it. Reducing an entire gas to a simple experiment for R&D or to a precursor to more useful gasses is a really bad change.
A flip side to here is scientists now have a practical premade space to mix BZ on ALL maps, without permanently ruining the burn chamber, which makes this a much more feasible production cycle.
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Re: Toxins gating is way too tough

Post by FantasticFwoosh » #642851

I tried researching what this was about remotely over github, and was overwhelmed by the sheer amount of atmos main PR's and ignored comments how gating is choking the game, while my own experience of toxins gating is that nobody uses it or likes it downstream so i literally had no firsthand idea it was a thing to start with than hearing about it. To sum it up, its a feature that only appeals to less than a 100 people (statics lets say) in a game of 2000 players rather than being hated by a 100 and acceptable to 2000.

I can make propositions for toxins content/justification any time of the week without dragging RnD and station endgame through the mud, it'll be my next ideas forum project.

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Re: Toxins gating is way too tough

Post by mindstormy » #642904

Why don't we just remove toxins from science completely and give that job to the atmos techs already doing it? I am saying this 100% unironically.
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Re: Toxins gating is way too tough

Post by Pandarsenic » #642942

mindstormy wrote: Wed Jun 01, 2022 10:16 pm Why don't we just remove toxins from science completely and give that job to the atmos techs already doing it? I am saying this 100% unironically.
Because once upon a time the idea was that researching plasma bombs was one of the things science was supposed to be doing

Because

Plasma is the McGuffin we use to make other cool stuff and RP-wise science should be researching it and figuring out what you can do with it!

And atmotech had two jobs: Get air into places and get plasma/N2O out of places so that it's all fucking habitable

Those identities were badly muddied because there's so much STUFF to make that the roundstart supplies of science were woefully inadequate to make them, but with the pressure tanks that MGIHT be changing. Maybe.

Even if it does, atmos just has so much more free space that it's hard to compete with.
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Re: Toxins gating is way too tough

Post by Shadowflame909 » #642999

I just realized more toxins gating has been added rather recently

Goodbye to advanced tools and Anomaly Armor. You had recieved a nerf prior anyways. Ill miss you.

nobody wants to do toxins and when they try the effort just isnt rewarded but is instead stomped out.

It reminds me of how if you go into the library and see a cool item in a shelf. you think it's obtainable only for the game to troll you by leaving you with glass shards and an empty shelf. Pretty much like this with how much importance toxins is getting, but the low amount of players who do it and enjoy doing it.
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Re: Toxins gating is way too tough

Post by celularLAmp » #643003

The way I feel about confusing stuff like circuits and toxins (kind of sometimes I understand) like someone tells me how to do it and i instantly forget afterwards

I feel that way about the entirity of goonstation which is really sad because the stuff you can do is hella cool its just too confusing for simpletons like me
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Re: Toxins gating is way too tough

Post by NoxVS » #643056

BZ Gas Shells - Extremely easy. Use the gas mixer thing to mix 66% plasma, 33% N2O (do this by setting the first filter to 0% main, 100% side and the second node to either 66/34 or 34/66 depending on if you have plasma first or not) and put it in the freeze chamber after setting the freeze chamber injection rate to like 1 LS on the computer. Pop a can of plasma on the freezer loop, turn the temp as low as possible, set the air alarm to scrub BZ. Once you have a decent amount (Wait on this while doing reactionless or something), unwrench the can that has been collecting from the scrubber. Stick the can on the input connector for the gas shell machine, empty out an oxygen tank using an air pump (feel free to use the oxygen pump being used in reactionless), stick the empty tank in the gas shell machine and turn it on. Wait for it to finish, remove the tank if necessary, record results and upload them to the NT Frontier app (download results from shell machine to disk, disk to PDA, file manager, download, use results when prompted by frontier app) to get the BZ shell experiment.

Reactionless - Make two thermomachines, with two connectors. Stick a plasma can and air pump on one, oxygen can and air pump on the other. Heat the plasma one as much as possible, cool the oxygen one as much as possible. You will need two empty tanks, but will likely need to steal an additional air pump from atmos as there may not be enough room to empty out the plasma tank so it can be heated and put back in. Make sure both gases are at the hottest/coldest they can be, and fill the tanks in the air pump. One tank full of hot plasma, one tank full of cold oxygen. Stick the two tanks on a TTV with a signaller, send it through the launch thing and signal it, bam. Download results from the doppler in the same way you do with the shell experiment (disk in doppler, disk to PDA, file manager, download results, use results in frontier app) and you have reactionless.

Noblium - The only step I haven't managed to do over the course of teaching toxins to myself over 4 rounds - If the BZ reaction hasn't finished yet (it hasn't.), set the freezer injector to 200 LS to empty the pipes out so you can send to the burner. Make sure to switch the gate off going to the freezer, turn on the burner gate once all the gas has left the pipes. Put a single plasma can on the mixer, set it to take like 85% from the main node, 15% from the side node (set the second mixer to 100%/0% to let it pass through). Set the air alarm scrubber in the burn chamber to expanded tritium, max the pumps going in and out of the burn chamber. Set the attached freezer very low, ignite, wait for it to burn and produce tritium. You will run out of oxygen first so change the mixer to send the rest of the plasma through when it stops burning. You now have tritium. Set up a freezer and pipes, make sure the freezer is the highest tier available (must be able to reach a temperature of <15k), put the rest of the BZ you produced earlier into this loop, along with the tritium. Add nitrogen and you will start producing hyper-noblium. Once this is done, filter the hyper-noblium out, repeat the steps as you did for the BZ shell I assume (put can on input, put empty tank in machine, turn on machine) and that should be it.

The reactionless bombs can be used to charge anomaly cores if you want to do that.

If you are playing on Tram, fix the freezer loop before continuing with anything. For some god-forsaken reason the freezer chamber input and output are straightpiped together.
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Re: Toxins gating is way too tough

Post by FantasticFwoosh » #643074

Shadowflame909 wrote: Thu Jun 02, 2022 8:35 pm I just realized more toxins gating has been added rather recently

Goodbye to advanced tools and Anomaly Armor. You had recieved a nerf prior anyways. Ill miss you.

nobody wants to do toxins and when they try the effort just isnt rewarded but is instead stomped out.

It reminds me of how if you go into the library and see a cool item in a shelf. you think it's obtainable only for the game to troll you by leaving you with glass shards and an empty shelf. Pretty much like this with how much importance toxins is getting, but the low amount of players who do it and enjoy doing it.
Allow me to read from my napkin-notes & tinfoil hat that I believe that the design leadership would stoop as low as to remove science in piecemeal, based on inter-departmentalism focusing outsourcing science tasks that make static toxin & RnD's player less important in the scheme of things to fake a lack of interest when players are frustrated that coders are slowly sabotaging it with obtuseness.

edit - I had a change of heart, i think i was brunt enough already and needed to explain my first statement better before leading into the second.

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Re: Toxins gating is way too tough

Post by Redrover1760 » #643596

sinfulbliss wrote: Mon May 30, 2022 3:46 am Strongly agree. RCDs are way too necessary for repairing large swaths of damaged hull to gate behind BZ production, something which less than 5% of the playerbase could do. There is little chance toxins players bother doing this since they probably don't care about T2 tools like engineers would, which means it will simply never get done and T2 tools will fall into obscurity just like BoH and advanced weaponry has. The difference being RCDs are extremely useful for prolonging shuttle call in the event of big breaches, whereas advanced weaponry was just cool toys.

The further requirement of removing the BZ canister from xenobio, to force BZ production and make BZ more relevant, is even worse. BZ's primary function, and its only use to jobs, was to sedate slimes in the large pen so you could store them without them dying or escaping. There is a 0% chance toxins players are going to, as in vin's PR, "produce BZ for xenobiologists." It's simply not important enough to xenobios to be worth the trouble, which means they will simply cope without it. Reducing an entire gas to a simple experiment for R&D or to a precursor to more useful gasses is a really bad change.
I discovered yesterday that since advanced engineering is gated behind BZ shells, I can't even make hydroponic trays for a bounty without stealing one as an engineer because Hydroponics tech is after advanced engineering.

You can't even make PLANT TRAYS without MAKING A WEIRD GAS EXPERIMENT THING

BRuh

Please do not make RCDs harder to get. If engineers want to Man Up and keep the station together, they shouldn't be discouraged from doing so by lacking strong tools to do so because "no one knows how BZ works in a science department because science is now a babymos department"

On the other hand, Making BZ is extremely pathetically easy to the point that the whole "shell part" is more confusing to me than anything else... And making science toxins more complex isn't necessarily a bad thing. I think I've seen players starting to adapt to this sorta stuff and do better. The only weird thing is about Toxins being Babymos, I guess.
Last edited by Redrover1760 on Tue Jun 07, 2022 11:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Toxins gating is way too tough

Post by Pandarsenic » #643597

I decided to experiment with making BZ yesterday after seeing someone unable to make some and discovered that BZ production was briefly broken because it involved dividing by plasma.

Not dividing a number the amount of plasma, dividing it by the notion of plasma itself.

But it looks like it's getting a speedy hotfix at least so it should be fine again shortly
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Re: Toxins gating is way too tough

Post by Redrover1760 » #643599

Pandarsenic wrote: Tue Jun 07, 2022 11:48 pm I decided to experiment with making BZ yesterday after seeing someone unable to make some and discovered that BZ production was briefly broken because it involved dividing by plasma.

Not dividing a number the amount of plasma, dividing it by the notion of plasma itself.

But it looks like it's getting a speedy hotfix at least so it should be fine again shortly
Eh? I made BZ yesterday just fine. Its probably because it has a minimum mole requirement of 10 N2O and 20 Plasma. Unless it was broken really briefly?
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Re: Toxins gating is way too tough

Post by Pandarsenic » #643600

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Re: Toxins gating is way too tough

Post by Imitates-The-Lizards » #643670

The focus on making non-science players have to contribute to science is cancer. I do not like the dissection experiment, and I do not like this BZ shells experiment. Anything that forces people to interact with Science, which is full of the worst players in the game (by personality, not by skill level), is inherently bad design. Furthermore, what does the coding team seriously expect to happen here? All that will happen is, at best, botany and engineering players will bitch and moan at science players until they do the experiment, or they will have to live and cope without the advanced tools.

Stop forcing non-sci to do tasks for sci. I didn't sign up to do science, and I almost never will. If I signed up for engineering, I want to do engineering. If I signed up for botany, I want to do botany. Don't force me to have to go do fucking toxins if I want the tools for my job. You want to lock science content behind toxins (like advanced mechs)? Fine. But leave the other departments out of it.
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Re: Toxins gating is way too tough

Post by Redrover1760 » #643701

Imitates-The-Lizards wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 7:14 am The focus on making non-science players have to contribute to science is cancer. I do not like the dissection experiment, and I do not like this BZ shells experiment. Anything that forces people to interact with Science, which is full of the worst players in the game (by personality, not by skill level), is inherently bad design. Furthermore, what does the coding team seriously expect to happen here? All that will happen is, at best, botany and engineering players will bitch and moan at science players until they do the experiment, or they will have to live and cope without the advanced tools.

Stop forcing non-sci to do tasks for sci. I didn't sign up to do science, and I almost never will. If I signed up for engineering, I want to do engineering. If I signed up for botany, I want to do botany. Don't force me to have to go do fucking toxins if I want the tools for my job. You want to lock science content behind toxins (like advanced mechs)? Fine. But leave the other departments out of it.
You can do both experiments in science fairly easily. Toxins has a very easy bz production setup that is literally mix 1 part n2o 2 parts plasma put it in the cooling chamber after attaching a plasma can to the cooling loop. It takes like 5 minutes tops. You can ask to go into genetics, get a monkey, turn it human, go into robotics and do the dissection surgery there. Same with nonhuman, just don't turn it human.

Which is why these vital experiments could either be lock science only stuff or lock extremely useful upgrades that you need science to do. Science is a necessary part of the station, to scale up against the scaling antags and stronger late game antags. If no one does science, the station suffers for it by not getting advanced tools and gadgets to fix corresponding advanced explosions from increased rep points, objectives, meteors, etc. Just like medbay, engineering, security, mining and what not it can't be ignored.

Im not sure if sci being unable to be ignored is a good thing, but at the very least its not console pushing simulator as much for the scientist, and science now has impact on the round outside of late game shit like mechs and xenobio and of course, explosives. I do wish science actually does have stronger more neat stuff however in its late game, and unlocks pretty neat stuff earlier, though. Or if experisci was actually fun in some way shape or form. Or if xenobio was 10x more interactive and fun (coming soon hopefully) A lot of the issue is that people dont want to play science despite it being a required job for the station to function once antags start progressing or exploding things.

I have seen advanced engineering being complete a lot more recently, as science players are adapting to babymos just like medical to the cloning removal and wounds. I think its not a bad thing for science to be meaningful.
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Re: Toxins gating is way too tough

Post by Imitates-The-Lizards » #643712

Redrover1760 wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 4:06 pm
Imitates-The-Lizards wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 7:14 am The focus on making non-science players have to contribute to science is cancer. I do not like the dissection experiment, and I do not like this BZ shells experiment. Anything that forces people to interact with Science, which is full of the worst players in the game (by personality, not by skill level), is inherently bad design. Furthermore, what does the coding team seriously expect to happen here? All that will happen is, at best, botany and engineering players will bitch and moan at science players until they do the experiment, or they will have to live and cope without the advanced tools.

Stop forcing non-sci to do tasks for sci. I didn't sign up to do science, and I almost never will. If I signed up for engineering, I want to do engineering. If I signed up for botany, I want to do botany. Don't force me to have to go do fucking toxins if I want the tools for my job. You want to lock science content behind toxins (like advanced mechs)? Fine. But leave the other departments out of it.
You can do both experiments in science fairly easily. Toxins has a very easy bz production setup that is literally mix 1 part n2o 2 parts plasma put it in the cooling chamber after attaching a plasma can to the cooling loop. It takes like 5 minutes tops. You can ask to go into genetics, get a monkey, turn it human, go into robotics and do the dissection surgery there. Same with nonhuman, just don't turn it human.

Which is why these vital experiments could either be lock science only stuff or lock extremely useful upgrades that you need science to do. Science is a necessary part of the station, to scale up against the scaling antags and stronger late game antags. If no one does science, the station suffers for it by not getting advanced tools and gadgets to fix corresponding advanced explosions from increased rep points, objectives, meteors, etc. Just like medbay, engineering, security, mining and what not it can't be ignored.

Im not sure if sci being unable to be ignored is a good thing, but at the very least its not console pushing simulator as much for the scientist, and science now has impact on the round outside of late game shit like mechs and xenobio and of course, explosives. I do wish science actually does have stronger more neat stuff however in its late game, and unlocks pretty neat stuff earlier, though. Or if experisci was actually fun in some way shape or form. Or if xenobio was 10x more interactive and fun (coming soon hopefully) A lot of the issue is that people dont want to play science despite it being a required job for the station to function once antags start progressing or exploding things.

I have seen advanced engineering being complete a lot more recently, as science players are adapting to babymos just like medical to the cloning removal and wounds. I think its not a bad thing for science to be meaningful.
The reason this is wrong is a fundamental misunderstanding on the coder's part about why people don't want to play science - They don't want to play science because science players are egotistical self-absorbed powergaming assholes, so every time anyone tries science they get turned off of the department by the people in the department, not by the content in the department. If they want science to be played more, they need to focus on changing the department content in such a way that it doesn't cause the people in it to be dicks, not in a way that forces people outside of science to interact with the assholes in science.

Furthermore, interdepartmental COOPERATION is fine, interdepartmental DEPENDENCE is not. Think about every case of interdepartmental dependence already in the game ,and then realize it has huge downsides with no real upsides. No one enjoys it when engineering drops the ball on power generation - if engineering does their job correctly, you just get to do your job normally (no upside), but if they do not do their job properly, you don't get to have fun or do anything the entire shift. Or robotics - if Mining doesn't get you any materials because there's no miners, or the one miner is a traitor, or the one miner died because they rushed the hierophant, again, you either just get to do your job normally, or you don't get to play the game at all. WHO on earth thinks introducing more "if someone else that isnt you fucks up, you just dont get to play, with no upsides" cases is a good idea? These toxins-gated techs arent THAT bad, but we've merely moved from "major negatives with no upsides" to "moderate negatives with no upsides" because you have the choice of coping and just using your basic level tools the entire shift if toxins drops the ball. Isn't that FUN?
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Re: Toxins gating is way too tough

Post by Turbonerd » #643890

A single engineer with roundstart equipment from the station can repair breaches from multiple maxcaps without needing any tech nodes researched. Advanced engineering isn't required to do anyone's job, and should be treated more as a luxury really.

BZ experiments are getting completed more frequently now. I think an important distinction people need to make is that how good a feature is doesn't scale with how efficiently and consistently people can do whatever meta setup they can do for the round.
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Re: Toxins gating is way too tough

Post by Imitates-The-Lizards » #643891

Turbonerd wrote: Fri Jun 10, 2022 5:18 am A single engineer with roundstart equipment from the station can repair breaches from multiple maxcaps without needing any tech nodes researched. Advanced engineering isn't required to do anyone's job, and should be treated more as a luxury really.

BZ experiments are getting completed more frequently now. I think an important distinction people need to make is that how good a feature is doesn't scale with how efficiently and consistently people can do whatever meta setup they can do for the round.
Just because something is technically possible, does not mean it is something that is realistically viable from a gameplay perspective, or that it is fun. This toxins-gating for the RCD has been a very unfortunate double whammy with the introduction of the structural weakpoint traitor objective, so engineering has become extremely unfun to play due to how slow and unfun reconstruction is. Right now, gameplay for engineering is "spend a half hour repairing half of a department every shift, or cry because the shuttle gets called at 30-40 minutes every shift".
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Re: Toxins gating is way too tough

Post by Pandarsenic » #643894

Or, worst of all, take the time to fix it and then scream because the shuttle is called anyway when another bomb goes off.
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Re: Toxins gating is way too tough

Post by warbluke » #644920

Just going to leave this here:
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Pandarsenic
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Re: Toxins gating is way too tough

Post by Pandarsenic » #644922

warbluke wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 10:58 pm Just going to leave this here:
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Fixed 4 u
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Re: Toxins gating is way too tough

Post by oranges » #644947

looks easy
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Re: Toxins gating is way too tough

Post by FantasticFwoosh » #645040

oranges wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 3:39 amlooks easy
Can you commit yourself to video playing experi-science without a admin-console advantage to show us how it's done then to faciliate proof? Perhaps prove that coders are much (maybe too) more intelligent and good at the game than people percieve them to be?

As maintainer & especially keyholder you have executive access to jump in and test any pr before they're even merged anyway, testing should be your bread and butter. :D

Spoiler:
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Re: Toxins gating is way too tough

Post by oranges » #645066

FantasticFwoosh wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 9:11 am
oranges wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 3:39 amlooks easy
Can you commit yourself to video playing experi-science without a admin-console advantage to show us how it's done then to faciliate proof? Perhaps prove that coders are much (maybe too) more intelligent and good at the game than people percieve them to be?

As maintainer & especially keyholder you have executive access to jump in and test any pr before they're even merged anyway, testing should be your bread and butter. :D
no
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Re: Toxins gating is way too tough

Post by tjatpbnj » #645859

NoxVS wrote: Fri Jun 03, 2022 2:48 am Reactionless - Make two thermomachines, with two connectors. Stick a plasma can and air pump on one, oxygen can and air pump on the other. Heat the plasma one as much as possible, cool the oxygen one as much as possible. You will need two empty tanks, but will likely need to steal an additional air pump from atmos as there may not be enough room to empty out the plasma tank so it can be heated and put back in. Make sure both gases are at the hottest/coldest they can be, and fill the tanks in the air pump. One tank full of hot plasma, one tank full of cold oxygen. Stick the two tanks on a TTV with a signaller, send it through the launch thing and signal it, bam. Download results from the doppler in the same way you do with the shell experiment (disk in doppler, disk to PDA, file manager, download results, use results in frontier app) and you have reactionless.
Wouldn't the plasma burn, invalidating it from the reactionless bomb experiment?
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Re: Toxins gating is way too tough

Post by NoxVS » #645896

tjatpbnj wrote: Sat Jul 02, 2022 4:05 pm
NoxVS wrote: Fri Jun 03, 2022 2:48 am Reactionless - Make two thermomachines, with two connectors. Stick a plasma can and air pump on one, oxygen can and air pump on the other. Heat the plasma one as much as possible, cool the oxygen one as much as possible. You will need two empty tanks, but will likely need to steal an additional air pump from atmos as there may not be enough room to empty out the plasma tank so it can be heated and put back in. Make sure both gases are at the hottest/coldest they can be, and fill the tanks in the air pump. One tank full of hot plasma, one tank full of cold oxygen. Stick the two tanks on a TTV with a signaller, send it through the launch thing and signal it, bam. Download results from the doppler in the same way you do with the shell experiment (disk in doppler, disk to PDA, file manager, download results, use results in frontier app) and you have reactionless.
Wouldn't the plasma burn, invalidating it from the reactionless bomb experiment?
It works so I have no idea
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