[Vekter] Mute Point - Failure to uphold punishment standards

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Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2020 12:50 am
Byond Username: RamenCup
Location: Florida, USA

[Vekter] Mute Point - Failure to uphold punishment standards

Post by RamenCup » #645191

When and where this incident occured (Game Server, forums, Discord): Manuel

Byond account and character name OR Discord name: RamenCup - Mute point

Admin: Vekter


Detailed summary: I was playing as the mime, Mute Point. Everything was going fine. As I passed an atmos tech by cargo, I decided to prank him with opening his canister of BZ. Normially this wouldnt be an issue. Just close the canister and set the scrubbers to contam. After a while I am arrested by the acting captian, Cydia Medina for the BZ release. Fair enough, do the crime, do the time. When released from my cell, the SSD captian is unsecured in an area inside the brig(believe it was the medical area). So being a smart mime, I loot the captians PDA. (Grand theft). As i'm walking through the halls, I see Cydia again. I took it upon myself to mess with the crate they were hauling, and opened and closed it a number of times. After they pulled a disabler and shot me, I took a sec backpack out of the crate and made a dash for the halls. But after a very short while, I dropped the backpack without taking anything from it.

A few minutes later I pass by Cydia again in the hallways, and they instantly pull a disabler and stun me, and baton me all the way to the brig. While stunned, I ran out of O2 in my tank and proceeded to suffocate in their custody. After I was dead, they proceeded to tell other security officers and a doctor/paramed(unsure which) that they were not going to have me revived, and that I was to be re-educated, all for the theft of the captians PDA. I adminhelped, and got a response from Vekter, asking who what, when, where and why. All good questions for the situation, and I thought it was going to be handled. After all, My initial question was "Is it normal to be RR'd for stealing a captian that is SSD's ID. They responded No, and followed up with the normal questions of who, and where etc. In response, I was told that Cydia "would try and have me revived". I responded with, " Well that's kinda hard as i'm in the re-education plasma pool." No response. After following Cydia as a ghost, it was clear that they had no intention of reviving me or sending anyone. Their first order of business was to order a shuttle call, and then to go to medical to get their own character healed while advising no one of my corpse.

When I brought this to the attention of the admins, again Vekter just gave the the response of, "I discussed the matter with him and asked him not to do it again, not sure what else you want me to do here". I again explained that it has been precident for an admin to ban someone for 24hrs after a false round removal. Again they did not disagree with the fact that I had been RR'd for a wrong reason, but instead doubled down with the following, " You are aware that we don't just outright ban people for anything wrong they do, yes? He acknowledged what he did was wrong and took steps to correct it. His history is not to the point where I think he deserved a ban." If this were the case, then my apology from my ban about a month ago, would of sufficed when I was explaining myself. I had not had a single note since 2019(?), yet I still ate a full 24hr ban for my wrongfull killing of someone. This was also followed up with his response of "He's only had two notes in the last 6 months and none of them are for improper round removal. If you have issue with this, feel free to post a complaint."

So here I am, posting a complaint for failure to uphold the standard punishment standards that are perscribed by precidents and rules. Hell, I've eatten a ban or two myself. But to see that I was round removed, and just have the offending party just say "Soz, my B hommie" and get off scott free kind of ruffles my feathers a bit...

Please let me know if I am in the wrong, or if i'm just being salty over nothing. But it deff looks like this is either a case of bias, or just ignorance on how to enforce the standard of set rules and punishments that TG has made the norm over the past few years.

EDIT: I was never recovered or revived, and the response was basically, "Well the round is almost over, so I cant help you there" Unsure if thwt was a response from Vekter, or another admin. But I feel like that is a bad excuse for punishment for the guilty party. So we are now setting precident that you can RR someone close to shuttle call, (or even call the shuttle as a guilty party) and say "welp, cant do anything now, sorry"
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Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2020 12:50 am
Byond Username: RamenCup
Location: Florida, USA

Re: [Vekter] Mute Point - Failure to uphold punishment standards

Post by RamenCup » #645196

Just for reference, this is my note history, yet I still ate a ban for 24hrs for the same thing?

2022-05-23 08:09:12 | Manuel | Round 183647 | Striders13 | 789h Living Playtime
Banned from the server for 1 day - As Captain, started shooting an assistant in maintenance, when the assistant retaliated by shoving, used his sabre to decapitate them.

2019-07-08 04:31:18 | Bagil | Round 112615 | Zxaber | 0h Living Playtime
Banned from the server for 1 day - As a non-antag CMO, killed the chef for not making them a hotdog and mistakenly calling them a botanist. Please don't do this.

Given Vekters reasoning, I should of been able to explain my latest ban, which I did to Striders, and say "Sorry, wont happen again boss". I know that all decisions are based by the admin making them. Yet I still caugh a 24hr ban. Is there not a double standard being displayed here, or even meta-friend bias? 2 notes over 6th months for other issues should not impact their decision for a false RR.
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Byond Username: Vekter
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Re: [Vekter] Mute Point - Failure to uphold punishment standards

Post by Vekter » #645255

I think it's important first and foremost to note that it's the admin's discretion as to whether or not to actually ban for something when an infraction is made. I often don't actually give details on punishment to players because situations like this end up happening where two situations that are possibly different from one another are compared 1:1.

In this specific situation, I made the call not to ban or note him based on the following:

1) You committed at least a few offenses yourself that the captain was directly involved in, leading to more severe punishment from an IC standpoint. Stealing the captain's ID is a pretty big no-no and would've landed you in perma or, at least, a 10 minute brig sentence. On top of that, you also dumped BZ into an area earlier, though admittedly the impact was relatively small. The captain had no way of knowing that specific impact, though, so in their eyes it was just something else you were doing to be a problem.
2) The captain's note history is relatively clean over a long period of play history. They haven't had any issues recently regarding improper round removal.
3) I was under the impression he would have been able to have you revived. This is admittedly where I made a mistake. I was distracted by IRL issues and should have done better to investigate where your body was located. I would have likely teleported your body back to the station and yelled at the captain for disposing of your body instead.

I can't really tell you why Strider might have banned you for the assistant issue. I wasn't there and the situation might have been different. I don't want to speak for them, nor do I want to try and put my spin on the matter.

The best I can say is that I'll try to be more attentive in the future to matters like this, but all I really could do to make it right would be to go back and note the guy for what happened.
Reply PM from-REDACTED/(REDACTED): i tried to remove the bruises by changing her gender

PM: Bluespace->Delaron: Nobody wants a mime's asscheeks farting on their brig windows.

PM: REDACTED->HotelBravoLima: Oh come on, knowing that these are hostile aliens is metagaming

[17:43] <Aranclanos> any other question ping me again
[17:43] <Vekter> Aranclanos for nicest coder 2015
[17:44] <Aranclanos> fuck you
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Re: [Vekter] Mute Point - Failure to uphold punishment standards

Post by Timberpoes » #645574

We're happy with Vekter's response and see nothing here complaint-worthy to uphold based on his response.

Admins are allowed to exercise their own discretion as to how to handle players. They have a lot of leeway in how they handle incidents and players, as well as how harsh any punishments will be. The player was spoken to and verbally warned, and Vekter exercised their discretion to not note based on valid factors.

It is unfortunate that you didn't get revived in this shift, but sometimes admins are busy or have to step away from the game. We really can't call not helping you get revived a conduct breach when this is expected and when we train admins that IRL always comes first as part of a healthy approach to adminning.
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