- Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2022 8:09 pm
- Byond Username: Tayl
Character name: Lullaby
Ban type: Server
Ban length: 360 minutes
Ban reason: Rule 1 Ban: As a non-antagonist mime engaged in repeated acts of theft and violence throughout a the shift. Including, shoving the detective then stealing their baton, destroying a beepsky for no reason, attacking the person who picked up the beepskys baton resulting in them ending up in crit after a scuffle, looting money from a dead person and then jumping to violence and later critting after being repeatedly shoved by the person they had critted earlier. Please work towards adapting a more positive style of play in the future because clearly nobody is having fun with this playstyle.
Time ban was placed: 2022-09-24 15:13:59
Server you were playing on when banned: Terry
Round ID in which ban was placed: 191093
Your side of the story: The story in the ban described above is correct but lacks some context I believe, that I would like to add some precision to :
- Regarding the theft of the detective : He had previously murdered a crew member in the hallways, as indicated in the general comms log, and was in the process of stunning and harm batoning another one in the hallways when this happened. Later in the round, the detective was lynched because this behavior kept going and he had harmed & murdered additional crew members. I believe the shoving & theft from someone that was clearly being abusive was warranted this shift.
- Regarding the destruction of beepsky : No reason for it, though there hasn't been a single Terry round I've witnessed where beepsky wasn't destroyed for its stun baton, I feel like it's pretty much to be expected at this point, and I've never seen anyone get in trouble for this, beyond security retrieving the stolen stun baton
- Regarding the attacking of the person who picked up the baton : People get into conflicts over things they feel like are theirs because they were the first to get to it like this all the time, even when noone's entitled to it. Beepsky baton, shoving fights in tech storage over insuls, you name it. I believe I'm in my right to initiate an altercation there. I was only stunning them with the detective baton to retrieve what I felt belonged to me. After trying to poorly explain my intentions, being a mime and all, I got shoved by an assistant and the QM, who then retrieved the baton from me. After the original thief got up, due to lack of stuns, they started shoving and punching me, I then pulled out a broken bottle, which I believe is fair according to escalation rules, and the reason they were put into soft crit was simply because they lost the fight. They were brought to medbay later on and neither of us left with the stun baton. I considered that issue dealt with at that point.
- Regarding the looting of the money of the dead guy : I took 172 credits from an ID that was laying in medbay, then returned the ID. I'll concede that behaviour was unwarranted and shitty to do. I got murdered later on in the round for that, which I ahelped simply because the person had OOC knowledge of me doing it and acted because of that knowledge. I don't have an issue with me being assaulted after stealing his credits, and I feel like this issue was resolved IC.
- Regarding the second run in with the first thief : I was in hop line looking for additional access on my ID, the first thief came, shoved and tabled me, then stole the mime clown shoes I had that you can buy from the vending machine. I chased after them, they started shoving and punching me first, i punched then pulled out the broken bottle again, after which they screamed for help after getting downed and I got crit by onlookers, then killed by the person I stole the credits from in medbay. I wasn't the instigator in this situation, and escalated the conflict according to escalation policy in no disproportionate measure, by first merely chasing after them for stealing something I had bought from my vending machine, then escalating the conflict after getting punched first. I even was slipped and kicked while down. I believe I have done nothing wrong in this situation and my behavior is entirely within the rules, and if not I'd like to know how. The original thief then proceeded to round remove my by decapitating me and keeping my brain in his bag, which I ahelped, feeling that was unwarranted since I feel like they instigated conflict in both cases and never did they fall below soft crit health, leading to me having a long discussion with NamelessFairy and receiving a 6h ban
Why you think you should be unbanned: I believe I have done nothing that warrants a ban during this round. The detective had it coming, considering his previous actions during the round of having killed someone already, and then ones that ensued, leading to his death. I doubt I'm the one getting in the way of people's fun in this situation. Securitrons get destroyed every single round on LRP, noone bats an eye and it's handled IC every time, and it doesn't harm or contribute to anyone's fun. I feel like I handled both conflicts with the thief in accordance with escalation policy. They instigated conflict both times, especially the second, and the reason they fell into crit was simply because they lost the fight they started by punching by being ill equipped, and by stopping and screaming for help when they felt they were about to get downed. They never fell into hard crit or died. Both times I hadn't engaged with them at all, especially the second time when I feel like the conflict was over and was minding my own business. Once again I doubt I'm the one getting in the way of people's fun in this situation, and would argue it's the other way around, especially with me getting round removed. The looting from the dead guy in medbay was shitty, but was handled IC. I have no history of tiding into places and fighting or killing people over gear I'd like to acquire. For all these reasons, I believe I should my ban should be lifted. A 6 hour ban I can easily handle, but I really think it's unjustified in this situation.
References of good conduct: None, my conduct isn't exemplary, but I really do believe I reflect upon the outcome of my actions and the effect it can have on other people in most situations.
Thanks for your time and consideration
- In-Game Game Master
- Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2020 8:40 pm
- Byond Username: NamelessFairy
Logs will be used a lot here so you can get all logs from: https://tgstation13.org/parsed-logs/ter ... nd-191093/
The Detective - While I agree the detective was not acting in good faith looting from sec without a really good reason is generally frowned upon, and the information you've given is not actually accurate to what happened.
Lets start at general comms, your only interaction with the detective was at 13:53:44 where you shoved and knocked them down, we can presume that you stole their baton at this point.
Here are the first two accusations you had access to of the detective killing someone:[2022-09-24 13:53:44.215] ATTACK: Tayl/(Lullaby) shoved Padbol/(Jerry Can) with knocking them down (NEWHP: 100) (Aft Central Primary Hallway (170,105,2))
There was only one accusation made that the detective killed someone before you engaged them, you should not assume on a single unverified claim on the radio that a member of the security team is rogue.[2022-09-24 13:53:12.804] TCOMMS: StealthyOperator/(Iskander Hamilton) [Common] (spans: ) "Det just murdered someone" (language: Galactic Common) (Pharmacy (155,98,2))
[2022-09-24 13:55:23.093] TCOMMS: Maskise/(Gravitarmata Argentea) [Common] (spans: ) "Detective try kill lawyer" (language: Galactic Common) (Medbay Lobby (159,100,2))
Now to move on to the harm baton, this is false.
I do not believe a single unverified general comms claim and witnessing a member of security preforming an arrest is enough to warrant stealing that member of securities non-harmful detainment option.[2022-09-24 13:53:27.165] ATTACK: Padbol/(Jerry Can) stun attacked Rex9001/(Garry Garryson) with the police baton (NEWHP: 100) (Aft Central Primary Hallway (172,114,2))
[2022-09-24 13:53:28.293] ATTACK: Rex9001/(Garry Garryson) shaken Padbol/(Jerry Can) (NEWHP: 100) (Aft Central Primary Hallway (171,111,2))
[2022-09-24 13:53:32.101] ATTACK: Padbol/(Jerry Can) attacked [ï¿½Aft Central Primary Hallway fire alarm] with the police baton (Aft Central Primary Hallway (171,104,2))
[2022-09-24 13:53:33.465] ATTACK: Padbol/(Jerry Can) stun attacked Rex9001/(Garry Garryson) with the police baton (NEWHP: 100) (Aft Central Primary Hallway (171,105,2))
[2022-09-24 13:53:38.592] ATTACK: Padbol/(Jerry Can) stun attacked Rex9001/(Garry Garryson) with the police baton (NEWHP: 100) (Aft Central Primary Hallway (171,105,2))
[2022-09-24 13:53:43.598] ATTACK: Padbol/(Jerry Can) stun attacked Rex9001/(Garry Garryson) with the police baton (NEWHP: 100) (Aft Central Primary Hallway (171,105,2))
[2022-09-24 13:53:44.215] ATTACK: Tayl/(Lullaby) shoved Padbol/(Jerry Can) with knocking them down (NEWHP: 100) (Aft Central Primary Hallway (170,105,2))
The Beepsky - It happens every round is not an excuse for randomly destroying station robots. This is minor and would normally not get you noted but its been noted here as it was part of a chain of poor play.
Esculation Fight 1 - This is also rather minor but adds context to the later fight, I don't really have any issues with your telling other than you leave out that you punched them before stunning them and you didn't attempt to mime to explain yourself until after they had started attacking you.
Money Theft - Dick move to randomly loot the dead, noted as its part of the wider picture. Something being handled ICly does not mean it cannot be handled OOCly as well. I will also note here as I didn't bring it up in your ticket but they did not use OOC information, they instead found out who stole from them ICly.
Esculation Fight 2 - There are no logs for your shoes being stolen so I can only assume you were carrying them in hand. You were not punched first in this engagement. Between yourself and Elodie you were the only person to use any sort of violence in this engagement (excluding shoves and failed(?) flashes.) Theft does not warrant immediate escalation to crit, especially in a second escalation engagement where you would normally be allowed to round remove them.
Further logs removed as it'd make this overly long, they show Syreith Attempting(?) to Flash Tayl while Tayl attacks unarmed and then later with their broken bottle before a third party interrupts the fight.[2022-09-24 14:08:20.263] ATTACK: Syreith/(Elodie Lussier) shoved Tayl/(Lullaby) (NEWHP: 98) (Fore Central Primary Hallway (135,129,2))
[2022-09-24 14:08:20.482] ATTACK: Tayl/(Lullaby) cast the spell Invisible Wall. (Fore Central Primary Hallway (137,129,2))
[2022-09-24 14:08:21.115] ATTACK: [reinforced table] shoved Tayl/(Lullaby) with onto the reinforced table (table) (NEWHP: 98) (Head of Personnel's Office (138,129,2))
[2022-09-24 14:08:58.384] ATTACK: Tayl/(Lullaby) climbed onto [reinforced table] (Head of Personnel's Office (138,129,2))
[2022-09-24 14:09:00.584] ATTACK: Syreith/(Elodie Lussier) shoved Tayl/(Lullaby) into Lukas Beedell (NEWHP: 98) (Fore Central Primary Hallway (137,129,2))
[2022-09-24 14:09:10.039] ATTACK: Syreith/(Elodie Lussier) shoved Tayl/(Lullaby) (NEWHP: 98) (Fore Primary Hallway (130,159,2))
[2022-09-24 14:09:10.917] ATTACK: Syreith/(Elodie Lussier) shoved Tayl/(Lullaby) (NEWHP: 98) (Fore Primary Hallway (131,159,2))
[2022-09-24 14:09:11.907] ATTACK: Syreith/(Elodie Lussier) shoved Tayl/(Lullaby) (NEWHP: 98) (Fore Primary Hallway (132,159,2))
[2022-09-24 14:09:12.767] ATTACK: Syreith/(Elodie Lussier) shoved Tayl/(Lullaby) (NEWHP: 98) (Fore Primary Hallway (132,159,2))
[2022-09-24 14:09:13.714] ATTACK: Syreith/(Elodie Lussier) shoved Tayl/(Lullaby) (NEWHP: 98) (Fore Primary Hallway (131,159,2))
[2022-09-24 14:09:14.692] ATTACK: Tayl/(Lullaby) slipped on the [soap] (Fore Primary Hallway (133,159,2))
[2022-09-24 14:09:15.694] ATTACK: Tayl/(Lullaby) kicked Syreith/(Elodie Lussier) (NEWHP: 86) (Fore Primary Hallway (134,159,2))
I would like to note that both in our ticket and this appeal you have repeatedly misremembered(?) critically important details to your engagements, I want to assume good faith and your not intentionally lying but in this case I highly recommend confirming your perspective with the logs in the future should this be needed again.
Beyond that I don't see much more that I need to add, I hope that you reflect on your interactions this round and seek to create more positive ones in the future.
- Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2022 8:09 pm
- Byond Username: Tayl
First of all, i'd like to state, as I did in a previous appeal I made before, that I strongly disagree with the fact that admins can review the appeals that concern the bans they delivered. They're biased regarding the issue at hand, seeing that they were the one delivering the original judgement and I highly doubt said judgement changes between the time of the ban and the time of the appeal. I know I don't make the rules and all, it just seems unfair. I just would've liked a second opinion on the matter.
Secondly, I didn't intend in any way to be lying, misleading, or being dishonest, as it would be futile since you guys are able to see anything that happened during the round through logs. I have never had the needs to check the logs before, and had poor understanding of them, how they work, and what they display prior to this. I specifically asked NamelessFairy, though through discord, if there was a way to get the logs of our game + our ticket exchange in order not to leave anything forgotten or misremembered. Appealing a ban an hour after the events described in it happen would probably make people misremember some events or details that happened.
Now, getting back to the case at hand :
The detective - Being near medbay when it all happened (in the hallway between cargo and medbay), what I witnessed was basically a dead guy, bloody medbay, and then coming back to the hallways a detective batoning a guy. I was wrong on the detective harming them, the fact is they had still killed someone early in the shift, and were called out about it in comms. Maybe I jumped to conclusions, but having trigger happy security that jump to lethals at the slightest opportunity would, and most likely did, encourage the crew to resist said abusive security.
Beepsky - Nothing to say, I understand your point, but seeing as it's such a common occurence, and Terry being LRP, I thought nothing of it. I already evoked tech storage, i was told in the past not to raid it on Manuel for instance, but that it was allowed on Terry. I fail to see how Beepsky any different really.
Escalation 1 - If anyone could mimic getting their gear stolen, who did it, make themselves understood and having people help, let alone have the thief stop to listen to all the mimicery, on Terry of all places, they deserve a fucking medal. In the meantime, the thief is long gone. I however attempted to mimic what they did, while i was stunning them before resorting to attacks. The single punch I landed before stunning them was a mistake, as it was a single occurence. A mistake kick happened inbetween too.
A detail of the combat occurences, with the couple mistake punches in red:
Money Theft - Agreed, and understood. I wrongly believed they used OOC information, which is what I tried to ahelp, not them attacking me, thanks for clarifying it up.
Escalation 2 - The logs may not display the shoes being stolen, I would then have dropped them after grabbing them in hands for some reason. Still, this doesn't change the fact they came out of nowhere to be a complete annoyance when the previous conflict was over.
I understand my behavior during all these events may not be exemplary, but the only thing I feel are worth reflecting on are the theft of money of a dead guy in medbay, and jumping to conclusions on a detective that had several circumstantial evidences against him, with a reaction from me that several other people had before, and after, that is most likely only natural.
If you truly believe I'm in the wrong regarding the conflict with Elodie Lussier, that I made no attempt to make myself understood and merely resorted to violence as a first reaction, at the first opportunity, disregarding the "fun of others" (which can be summarized to nothing but harassment really), then we'll have to agree to disagree.
I really don't believe that my reaction to this situation wasn't warranted, and don't feel like a temporary ban is justified in this situation. A note I could understand, but this is just too much.
I believe you're a headmin, so I'm not sure I've got the right to ask for a second opinion, yet I'd like to request one if possible, for the reasons I stated at the beginning of this post, despite the ban being lifted by now.
Thank you for your time and consideration
- In-Game Admin
- Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 10:25 pm
- Byond Username: Vekter
- Location: Fucking around with the engine.
This is why we have a system where you can request the headmins look at the ban after it's been placed. You can also scroll through Resolved Appeals and find plenty of instances where an admin changed their judgement after the fact due to not having all the facts or finding the apology sufficient to reduce or remove the ban.First of all, i'd like to state, as I did in a previous appeal I made before, that I strongly disagree with the fact that admins can review the appeals that concern the bans they delivered. They're biased regarding the issue at hand, seeing that they were the one delivering the original judgement and I highly doubt said judgement changes between the time of the ban and the time of the appeal. I know I don't make the rules and all, it just seems unfair. I just would've liked a second opinion on the matter.
It's also worth noting that 1) NamelessFairy is not currently a headmin, those are san7890, RaveRadbury, and Spookuni and 2) This ban has expired, and as such you would only really be appealing the note, not the ban.
- In-Game Head Admin
- Joined: Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:12 pm
- Byond Username: San7890
- Github Username: san7890
- Location: here
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