Lmwevil/Turgent/Derpu (Terrible PALADIN, Awful Security)

[Posterunek]

Your BYOND Account: Posterunek

Your Character Name: Komandos Jabol

Their Character Name: Sera'Apham-Kluiso (Derpu) / JADED.OS (Lmwevil) / Vaults-Over-Tables/Cephalon (Turgent)
Their BYOND Account: Derpu / Lmwevil / Turgent

Server And Time: BASIL 2015-03-29 05:30-06:20 SERVER TIME

Logs And / Or Screenshots:

Description Of What Happened: Sera'Apham-Kluiso - That officer was acting fishy from the very start. At first she was being very secretive about what she was doing. It ranged from her hanging out in the Captain's Office for some reason, and ending with her quietly messing with the AI and giving it a PALADIN lawset.
That was the first thing that made me paranoid. Why was she so damn quiet, maybe she was an antagonist and she was planning to do something? I do not know, but then she started to act like a tyrant she was.
One person that tasted her terribleness was the clown, and here I have their story as a quote:

"normal sec officer, permabrigged me after stripping me bare, no headset, locked me up and didn't let me communicate with anyone. i was just strolling around as a clown on a secway, lowpop, late at night, who cares? i was opening doors for people because no one had access because lowpop, no heads except for a retarded CE whom i think didn't know how to play the game. so i'm on my way to check on the AI because there were some concerns, and this lizard sec decks me in engineering and drags me to perma. takes my headset and everything, locks me up. i was planning on having a fun little round before bed, and ended up sitting bored out of my mind in perma trying to find a way to tell everyone i was in there unlawfully and needed help. when i eventually got out (AI logged back on and let me out when i asked nicely) i found out no one even knew i was gone. seclizard loved to come back to mock me, too. what a nerd. she also took my mask. who takes a clown's mask? that's just needlessly cruel and also that's the clown's damned internals. woulda' loved to have my mask when the AI suffocated me later.
i added a fourth law to the then-asimov AI that was very close to: "if someone isn't wearing clown shoes, mask and doesn't have a bike horn, it's harmful to humans." which was to get the AI to order a ton of costume crates. which the AI admitted they would've done after the round OOC when i explained the law since they didn't even get to see it before they got back and were subverted by the sec officer."

The officer did the same to me, by stripping me out of all of my stuff and even removing my headset. And that thing made me die because of the cyborg, and I will explain that just below after the AI matter.

JADED.OS - At first I had no problem with the AI, but things started to get fishy really fast. At first I think they started as a human, but then they forcibly tried to AI themselves for some weird reason, and then Lindsay Donk ended up putting her in the AI chamber after seeing her die.
The AI began starting acting haywire when I decided to do something about the tyrant security officer. I broke into the brig, where I was met by the clown who said she was unlawfully kept in arrest. I broke into the armoury, took a few energy weapons from there (I planned to cuff the officer with them) but then the AI started to suffocate the clown and me out of sudden. It was a PALADIN AI, and it electrified the door leading to armoury, and also started sucking out the air from the room, effectively leading to the death of the clown.
Now I have no clear idea what were they thinking, I think that the AI thought since they had the PALADIN lawset, they were allowed to start murdering everyone who was 'unlawful'. That is just silly, a PALADIN AI is not supposed to act like that. They are supposed to act honourable and merciful, not like a barbarian that will kill anyone for the slightest of crimes.
Oh, have I mentioned that the AI said it will kill EVERYONE who threatened it, but still murdered the clown even when the clown DIDN'T threaten it nor had any means of doing so? Yeah, that is a whole lot of crap. At first we genuinely thought that the AI was subverted and rogue, that is how bloodthirsty it was, and that is why both the clown and me started getting more feisty with things.

Cephalon - This cyborg is ending the trinity of awfulness that happened during that round. While I was cuffed and buckled to a chair by Sera'Apham-Kluiso, the cyborg popped out and after the officer left, it took me somewhere. After a very short while I realized that it was spacing me. For what reason? Because it had to "Space the unlawful people". Now, hell, that is clearly breaking the law three which says "Act with honour". Was spacing a bucklecuffed, stripped miner a honourable thing to do, while they were completely harmless back then? Nope. And then they started to try and lie their way out of that too! That was the worst PALADIN cyborg I have ever seen.

Why They Should Be Banned: I am asking for a jobban for these three, till they will earn how does a security officer position or AI work. The officer was acting like a tyrant, and the AI plus Cyborg clearly did not understand the PALADIN lawset and took it as an excuse to go mini-murderboner on people there. This is the first time I saw a PALADIN AI act like this, and I have never imaged that this is how would a real paladin act. You are supposed to be merciful, honourable, not a murderous jerk. That is all I have to say.

[rsmr]

yeah i was the clown and that security officer was pretty miserable. ruined my round. i just wanted a light-hearted mess-about round before bed and ended up in perma for a while before the AI killed me right after I got out. i didn't even have a headset on to provoke the AI or anything. i can't see any excuse to kill me when your lawset's paladin and i can't even threaten you. i was literally trying to get out of the room as soon as possible, trying to get my stuff back so i could leave. the only words i spoke were "help" and "the air is draining".

[lmwevil]

I can only state what I saw from my point of view. I was made an AI, then I was starving, went and made myself dinner. I come back to having paladin, the atmos tech asking why the crew are so mean. Alongside other things, I was quickly overwhelmed, I suddenly see "motion detected in armory". I see that a bunch of people were breaking in, so I lock down the brig, and electrify the doors. So that they cannot escape when security comes to detain them. At this point I was just in a state of "Do not let them get those damn guns out". Anyway, they start cutting down the armory wall instead, in a moment of panic, I start to remove air from the armory. As the person inside never had sensors, I couldn't tell when they died. But apparently they did. In any case, the miner. Komandos Jabol, was in a hardsuit at the last time I had visual contact. I got a cyborg and ordered it to throw Komandos Jabol out the airlock (assuming he would still be wearing the hardsuit). Apparently the borg bucklecuffed and threw him out the airlock with no hardsuit, however at this point I was carded and unaware of what was happening on station. I was seeking to exile Komandos Jabol, not murder him. In any case, yes I did murder someone in the armory, that was in the moment. In the end, yes that was a murder. I in hindsight reflect that it wasn't just. I also was not told that the miner was buckle-cuffed, and spaced without a hardsuit. Until after the round. In any case. I was JADED.OS, I have done a lot of JADED.OS. Feel free to ask general opinions on Basil for JADED.OS. I am typically an extremely rational AI with very little desire to murder, even as antag.


TL;DR: I was attempting to have Komandos Jabol - Miner exiled. I was unaware that he had no hardsuit on when he was spaced as I was carded at the time. The murder in the armory was a mistake, but one that I own. If they ever bothered to talk to me about why they were raiding the armory, it would have turned out differently. I apologise for the murder in the armory, and the apparent murder via spacing that the borg did.


I am interested in the verdict, I accept that I should have used better wording with spacing Komandos Jabol. I believe a job ban is a little too harsh. However I will accept any and all punishments given.


I guess I'll see the results later.

Lmwevil.


Edit: I was unaware that the clown had no headset, I assumed he was staying silent. Sorry I just posted after realising the clown posted. If I saw he was saying that I would have stopped. Once again, I apologise for the armory drama.

(Another) Edit: I said that, because of the threats of being blown up by the miner, my sat was lethal. For all innocents to stay away, I never once stated that I would: "Kill anybody who threatened me."

[Stan_Studnick]

Roboticist here who didn't care about any of that. Just a FYI:

Komandos Jabol tried to gibtonite bomb the AI the round before, (different AI) was being vehemently "anti-AI" prior to the armory raid, and as far as I can tell was just generally uncooperative. He had threatened several times to break in and destroy the AI, and if memory serves me well, he threatened anyone who got in his way.

[Derpu]

Security officer here. While I haven't been contacting with the crew, I was running around, trying to figure out why there's an upload console in the captain's quarters. Just later I have realised the clown (rsmr, I think) has all-access, and is running around with full Head of Security gear. After they were detained and searched I put them in the prison wing untill I could figure out what have they done to the AI. (I put him in without a headset.) After a whole bunch of running around trying to get into the AI core to check it's laws, I finally got in and saw a fourth law, something along the lines of.

"Not being a clown is harmful to humans."

Back then I didn't give the law much thought and decided to keep the clown in for now. That'd be about when Lindsay started going ape and attempted twice to break into the upload. I stopped both attempts and, inbetween them I was trying to fix the upload, I ended up uploading PALADIN after purging the AI, as the clown law was a core freeform. That'd be when Lindsay started breaking out (both times she has started breaking windows) and I think the second time she got out with the help of Posterunek. That's when shit hit the fan and they went on to break into the armoury and get killed by the AI, which I did not encourage or order to do so.

If you need a more detailed story just please say so.

[rsmr]

http://puu.sh/gTWVI/94ca76f9f8.png

[lmwevil]

Yep, I admit the wording was poor. I was using information from security that it was a revolution. I never intended cold blooded murder, but then again. I never expected my borg to commit cold blooded murder either, as it was slaved to PALADIN as well. What I wished was to exile the miner.

Also, before I forget, I was unaware that it was the clown in the armory (linking further into the expecting a radio response). They had no ID and a mask on, so it was just an unknown to me.


PS: The speech is just a quirk of JADED.OS. Nothing of note.

Edit: The use of lethal force, was implying if they attacked, to attack back and not just die. Not to murder. Once again, I admit my wording was poor.

[Posterunek]

Roboticist here who didn't care about any of that. Just a FYI:

Komandos Jabol tried to gibtonite bomb the AI the round before, (different AI) was being vehemently "anti-AI" prior to the armory raid, and as far as I can tell was just generally uncooperative. He had threatened several times to break in and destroy the AI, and if memory serves me well, he threatened anyone who got in his way.

Oh whoa, so now using gibtonite to blow your way inside the core of a ROGUE AI is not allowed? If I remember correctly that AI was Tartaros, and it was rogue as shit as it was murdering everyone, including trying to incinerate me in the core using plasma fire. If you do not care, then why do you post slander here? What my character thinks about the AI is my own business, I never assault an AI for no reason, even if my character might be dislikey towards them.
Yes, I have threatened to break in a few times, and that is because everything was quiet and Sera'Aphim was fiddling with it.

Once again, why do you post untruthful things, while you just stated above that you do not care? What is the point? :V

[rsmr]

i was there for the rogue AI Tartaros. It got outsmarted by a clown. It was pretty damned stupid. he was legit trying to kill everyone. i'd gibtonite that core too.

EDIT: Sera was doing a lot more fiddling with the AI than I was. I only built an upload console in the captain's quarters to avoid getting shot by stun turrets. it's a lot of fun working for it. walk in, disable turrets, disable APC, walk into chambr, disable APC, dismantle console, walk out reverting everything, repurpose the sec monitor in captain's into an upload console. fun stuff.

[Stan_Studnick]

Oh whoa, so now using gibtonite to blow your way inside the core of a ROGUE AI is not allowed? If I remember correctly that AI was Tartaros, and it was rogue as shit as it was murdering everyone, including trying to incinerate me in the core using plasma fire. If you do not care, then why do you post slander here? What my character thinks about the AI is my own business, I never assault an AI for no reason, even if my character might be dislikey towards them.
Yes, I have threatened to break in a few times, and that is because everything was quiet and Sera'Aphim was fiddling with it.

Once again, why do you post untruthful things, while you just stated above that you do not care? What is the point? :V

I'm just stating that you said a bunch of things that were profusely anti-AI and you started the round by giving the new AI shit. When I had died from fucking up the teleporter (lol) you were messaging Lindsay about how you hate all silicons, robots, etc and honestly if I were playing a job with access to telecomms it would have been enough to pass along to sec/command. Also, I'm not sure why you think breaking into the AI core is a good idea because, and I quote, "it was quiet and Sera'Aphim was fiddling with it."

At first I was under the impression that you were mad about your death in the previous round and were just winding down. Shit happens, I can forgive the saltiness because I do it too and it takes me a bit to cool my jets when I get worked up. Then you guys start going on about how the AI is probably rogue, security is rogue, everyone is "shady" and you "don't trust anyone." I was away for a bit after being cloned and when I came back you guys were yelling and shit over the radio at the sec officer. Shortly after I was becoming convinced you guys were either greytiding or antags, either way I was roleplaying in the medbay and was too busy to bother. Then I hear about some armory break-in? What? On top of shenanigans in the upload? I knew for a fact the AI wasn't doing anything because of meta reasons, (I was a ghost, AI was motionless for a loooong time) so that basically confirmed to me my suspicions were true.

EDIT: To be absolutely crystal clear, I watched you rage against an AI that went AFK a minute after being installed and was away for a large chunk of the round. That's why I was pretty suspicious that you were an antag, and when the armory got broken into I was convinced of it.

DOUBLE EDIT: Also to be completely extra clear, the whole reason why I'm even posting here is to give a third perspective. I think this whole thing is a series of unfortunate events and a big misunderstanding. This will be my last post here, if the admins want to ask me anything I'm on IRC and stuff. Also I trimmed my post down a lot to get rid of the unnecessary.

[Posterunek]

I still fail to see the point behind your point, Stan. Are you trying to say that because of what my character is thinking, I am also shit and murderous towards all synthetic beings? I have played on heavy roleplay servers before, and it is my habit to give my character at least a tiny bit of depth to them, no matter if it is a positive memory or not.

I also do not remember where I have said that I do not trust anyone, can you give me a screenshot with a quote where I said that? Because as far as I can remember, the only people I clearly did not trust back then was the security officer, YOU and the AI. I do not know, maybe it is YOU who is trying to get a little revenge for the IC things that happened earlier? Perhaps you did not like the fact my character, Komandos Jabol, did not trust your roboticist character?

[Not-Dorsidarf]

http://puu.sh/gTWVI/94ca76f9f8.png

This is extremely relevant to the discussion, as s series of statements by a PALADIN AI.

[NikNakFlak]

Alright, after about two hours of log reading, I've made some conclusions.

I believe the clown to be brigged for a legitimate reason. It may be a low pop round, but the clown also broke into two secure areas, stole all access, and uploaded a law. It is taken into account that the law was actually mostly harmless but annoying and potentially a distraction for security.
[05:06:09]LAW: Wonderclown used 'Freeform' Core AI Module on (JADED.OS). The law specified It is harmful for anyone to not be a clown. So that everyone is safe, everyone must be outfitted in clown gear. (Clown mask, clown shoes, and one bike horn.)
I however really don't believe the action of permabrigging lindsay to be valid. They both broke out of the brig and lindsay suicided while the clown and Posterunek decided to raid the armoury. I believe Posterunek was extremely shitting to the security officer. Derpu even asked why there was such conflict involved between the two of you, which you responded with "I don't like your secrecy" and "The AI did this to us because of paladin and you put the AI on paladin therefore this is directly your fault". The clown was then killed by the AI which I will talk about more later while Posterunek was arrested. The security officer instructed the borg to keep the prisoner where they were located but instead the AI told the borg to space him, which according to lmwevil was a miscomunication but the end result was still a spacing.

I believe the security officer to be under no fault here. Permabrigging the clown for this offenses is perfectly acceptable. Just because it's lowpop doesn't mean it's a free for all. Low population tends to go vastly differently than regular population but that is not an excuse to claim captainship as clown basically and clown tide. Permabrigging lindsay was more questionable but lindsay expressed that they had no issues with it and I'm not going to push the matter.

The clown was permabrigged on charges that would normally get you a permabrig, and then broke out and started breaking into the armoury. Shortly after they were killed by the AI. Breaking into the armoury might have not been the best course of action but since they died shortly after, nothing came of it.

Posterunek was to put it lightly, short of an asshole all around from an IC perspective with threatening to kill the AI and calling everyone and their mother cunts and various other things. Being a dick in character is fine to a point but I really think it should be toned down. Raiding the armoury because you are "suspicious" of a security officer isn't a great reason and you got what was coming to you by the arrest. As for the borg spacing you, adminbus has mostly come to a consensus that, that was over the line. At the end of the round, you continued to be a dick and attack people in OOC and that is not welcome. I understand that you experienced some frustration in that round, but after pouring through those logs, I think you can tone down your general attitude around this server.

After looking through these logs a bunch and getting more opinions from adminbus, the general consensus was that the AI took paladin over the line.
1. Never willingly commit an evil act.
2. Respect legitimate authority
3. Act with honor
4. Help those in need
5. Punish those who harm or threaten innocents
With some laws borderline, siphoning air and shocking doors of the armoury was considered more of a honor, evil thing rather than punishment for people who harm innocents. One player had made death threats already and the clown was also going for lethal weaponry, but the spacing was considered over the line especially since they were subdued at that point. Lmwevil will be given a warning and note for these actions.

Not all fault is on any one person, this was a pretty shit filled round honestly but I want to call this resolved as of now.