Restart votes should succeed by default when an admin is on

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Restart votes should succeed by default when an admin is on

Post by CPTANT » #663991

As far as I know when there is an admin on a restart vote only succeeds when an admin is on if the admin takes action to let it pass.

This is the reverse of what it should be IMO, the vote should pass unless the admin actively veto's it. This prevents inactive/uncaring admins to block restart votes.

That is all.
Timberpoes wrote: Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:21 pm The rules exist to create the biggest possible chance of a cool shift of SS13. They don't exist to allow admins to create the most boring interpretation of SS13.
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Re: Restart votes should succeed by default when an admin is on

Post by Imitates-The-Lizards » #664101

One issue I foresee with this is players using votes to annoy/harass admins. I could easily see a shift happening where some guy murderbones 20 people and starts working towards their final traitor objective, and an admin being on who wants to let them finish the shift via resonance cascade or whatever, but the 20 dead guys all spamming the restart vote every time it comes up while salting in deadchat/ooc.

So as long as admemes also get the power to turn off restart votes (do they currently have this power?) I guess it would be fine?
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Re: Restart votes should succeed by default when an admin is on

Post by zxaber » #664125

Restart votes are to fix the server if it's broken while no admin is online. It's not a tool to deny a murderboner their bone, it's not a tool to skip a map that you don't like.

Counterpoint: restart votes should be disabled. If a server is broken and no admin is on, your ahelps will reach the Discord. If you cannot ahelp, go to the Discord and ping the Keyholder role.
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Re: Restart votes should succeed by default when an admin is on

Post by CPTANT » #664142

zxaber wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 7:43 am Restart votes are to fix the server if it's broken while no admin is online. It's not a tool to deny a murderboner their bone, it's not a tool to skip a map that you don't like.

Counterpoint: restart votes should be disabled. If a server is broken and no admin is on, your ahelps will reach the Discord. If you cannot ahelp, go to the Discord and ping the Keyholder role.
Easy to say if you are admin and never have to deal with this shit. Salt votes basically never succeed and an admin can still deny it, if no admin can be arsed to respond than the player vote should be honoured.
Timberpoes wrote: Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:21 pm The rules exist to create the biggest possible chance of a cool shift of SS13. They don't exist to allow admins to create the most boring interpretation of SS13.
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Re: Restart votes should succeed by default when an admin is on

Post by Mice World » #664146

Rounds are rarely broken enough to justify restart votes. I don't agree with outright removing the option but they definitely shouldn't auto pass when an admin is on. If an admin is deliberately blocking a valid vote make an admin complaint.
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Re: Restart votes should succeed by default when an admin is on

Post by ekaterina » #664189

Mice World wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 2:11 pm Rounds are rarely broken enough to justify restart votes. I don't agree with outright removing the option but they definitely shouldn't auto pass when an admin is on. If an admin is deliberately blocking a valid vote make an admin complaint.
Part of his point is that it doesn't have to be deliberate.
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Re: Restart votes should succeed by default when an admin is on

Post by Mice World » #664190

ekaterina wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 7:32 pm Part of his point is that it doesn't have to be deliberate.
You could just talk with the admin in OOC or make a ticket about it. I don't think many admins boot up the game and sit afk.
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Re: Restart votes should succeed by default when an admin is on

Post by TheFinalPotato » #664195

Admin issue, restart votes exist to allow for non admin'd rounds to exit if something is horribly wrong.
If people (me it's me I do this) are idling on the server when that happens we have other ways of handling the problem, and I don't think it's a common enough case to justify potentially blindsiding active admins.

If the admin team for some reason fucking wanted this we could do it, but I doubt they do
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Re: Restart votes should succeed by default when an admin is on

Post by CPTANT » #664198

TheFinalPotato wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 8:38 pm Admin issue, restart votes exist to allow for non admin'd rounds to exit if something is horribly wrong.
If people (me it's me I do this) are idling on the server when that happens we have other ways of handling the problem, and I don't think it's a common enough case to justify potentially blindsiding active admins.

If the admin team for some reason fucking wanted this we could do it, but I doubt they do
The entire point is that active admins can still deny. If they don't respond then they are basically by definition inactive.
Timberpoes wrote: Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:21 pm The rules exist to create the biggest possible chance of a cool shift of SS13. They don't exist to allow admins to create the most boring interpretation of SS13.
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Re: Restart votes should succeed by default when an admin is on

Post by TheFinalPotato » #664204

I disagree with placing a need to catch each restart vote on the admin team.
If you can convince them they want it go off, but we aren't doing that before they're ok with it.
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Re: Restart votes should succeed by default when an admin is on

Post by Mothblocks » #664387

if im trying to investigate a game breaking bug and the round restarts because i didnt click "no" because i was focusing on the bug, you would see a revert pr in the following 20 seconds
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Re: Restart votes should succeed by default when an admin is on

Post by CPTANT » #664398

Mothblocks wrote: Sun Feb 05, 2023 2:23 am if im trying to investigate a game breaking bug and the round restarts because i didnt click "no" because i was focusing on the bug, you would see a revert pr in the following 20 seconds
Yeah better to let dozens of players get stuck on a broken round because you are too busy with your own stuff. :roll:

I am not against having a lenient timer, lets say 5 minutes or so, but inactive admins blocking legitimate restart votes is just bs.
Timberpoes wrote: Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:21 pm The rules exist to create the biggest possible chance of a cool shift of SS13. They don't exist to allow admins to create the most boring interpretation of SS13.
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Re: Restart votes should succeed by default when an admin is on

Post by Mothblocks » #664460

Yes, it is better for people to be stuck on a broken round once while I solidly deduce the issue and make sure it never happens to anyone again than to let it restart and happen to everyone else god knows how many times while they hope to pull in someone who will waste their time independently figuring out what I was already going to
Shaps-cloud wrote: Mon Dec 07, 2020 7:59 am May eventually become one of the illusive maintainer-headmins if they choose to pursue that path, having a coder in the senior admin leadership has usually been positive for both sides in the past.
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Re: Restart votes should succeed by default when an admin is on

Post by CPTANT » #664463

Mothblocks wrote: Mon Feb 06, 2023 7:38 am Yes, it is better for people to be stuck on a broken round once while I solidly deduce the issue and make sure it never happens to anyone again than to let it restart and happen to everyone else god knows how many times while they hope to pull in someone who will waste their time independently figuring out what I was already going to
There is nothing stopping you from doing this, you would only have to press a single button, with plenty of time, you can even have multiple visual and audio hints that your attention is needed.
Timberpoes wrote: Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:21 pm The rules exist to create the biggest possible chance of a cool shift of SS13. They don't exist to allow admins to create the most boring interpretation of SS13.
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Re: Restart votes should succeed by default when an admin is on

Post by oranges » #664645

it's not going to change
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Re: Restart votes should succeed by default when an admin is on

Post by Cobby » #664715

restart vote should just be removed because the only point at which it would become useful would be a point that the game wouldnt process the restart vote anyways.
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Re: Restart votes should succeed by default when an admin is on

Post by Vekter » #664944

CPTANT wrote: Mon Feb 06, 2023 8:23 am
Mothblocks wrote: Mon Feb 06, 2023 7:38 am Yes, it is better for people to be stuck on a broken round once while I solidly deduce the issue and make sure it never happens to anyone again than to let it restart and happen to everyone else god knows how many times while they hope to pull in someone who will waste their time independently figuring out what I was already going to
There is nothing stopping you from doing this, you would only have to press a single button, with plenty of time, you can even have multiple visual and audio hints that your attention is needed.
Or, we could just keep things as they are now and let admins decide if the round needs to be restarted or not.
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Re: Restart votes should succeed by default when an admin is on

Post by CPTANT » #664968

Vekter wrote: Sat Feb 11, 2023 11:12 pm
CPTANT wrote: Mon Feb 06, 2023 8:23 am
Mothblocks wrote: Mon Feb 06, 2023 7:38 am Yes, it is better for people to be stuck on a broken round once while I solidly deduce the issue and make sure it never happens to anyone again than to let it restart and happen to everyone else god knows how many times while they hope to pull in someone who will waste their time independently figuring out what I was already going to
There is nothing stopping you from doing this, you would only have to press a single button, with plenty of time, you can even have multiple visual and audio hints that your attention is needed.
Or, we could just keep things as they are now and let admins decide if the round needs to be restarted or not.
The OP already explains why this should be changed.
Timberpoes wrote: Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:21 pm The rules exist to create the biggest possible chance of a cool shift of SS13. They don't exist to allow admins to create the most boring interpretation of SS13.
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Re: Restart votes should succeed by default when an admin is on

Post by Vekter » #664999

CPTANT wrote: Sun Feb 12, 2023 11:35 am
Vekter wrote: Sat Feb 11, 2023 11:12 pm
CPTANT wrote: Mon Feb 06, 2023 8:23 am
Mothblocks wrote: Mon Feb 06, 2023 7:38 am Yes, it is better for people to be stuck on a broken round once while I solidly deduce the issue and make sure it never happens to anyone again than to let it restart and happen to everyone else god knows how many times while they hope to pull in someone who will waste their time independently figuring out what I was already going to
There is nothing stopping you from doing this, you would only have to press a single button, with plenty of time, you can even have multiple visual and audio hints that your attention is needed.
Or, we could just keep things as they are now and let admins decide if the round needs to be restarted or not.
The OP already explains why this should be changed.
And I firmly disagree with your logic, if someone's AFK on the server then you should urgent adminhelp so we can fix the issue. This doesn't happen enough to warrant changing the entire system so you can reboot a round without us noticing while we're online.
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Reply PM from-REDACTED/(REDACTED): i tried to remove the bruises by changing her gender

PM: Bluespace->Delaron: Nobody wants a mime's asscheeks farting on their brig windows.

PM: REDACTED->HotelBravoLima: Oh come on, knowing that these are hostile aliens is metagaming

[17:43] <Aranclanos> any other question ping me again
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Re: Restart votes should succeed by default when an admin is on

Post by CPTANT » #665002

Vekter wrote: Sun Feb 12, 2023 8:14 pm
CPTANT wrote: Sun Feb 12, 2023 11:35 am
Vekter wrote: Sat Feb 11, 2023 11:12 pm
CPTANT wrote: Mon Feb 06, 2023 8:23 am
Mothblocks wrote: Mon Feb 06, 2023 7:38 am Yes, it is better for people to be stuck on a broken round once while I solidly deduce the issue and make sure it never happens to anyone again than to let it restart and happen to everyone else god knows how many times while they hope to pull in someone who will waste their time independently figuring out what I was already going to
There is nothing stopping you from doing this, you would only have to press a single button, with plenty of time, you can even have multiple visual and audio hints that your attention is needed.
Or, we could just keep things as they are now and let admins decide if the round needs to be restarted or not.
The OP already explains why this should be changed.
And I firmly disagree with your logic, if someone's AFK on the server then you should urgent adminhelp so we can fix the issue. This doesn't happen enough to warrant changing the entire system so you can reboot a round without us noticing while we're online.
Without you noticing? If after multiple warnings you still can't be bothered to pay attention to a restart vote then you clearly have no investment in a round. It's ultimately the players that play the game not the admins, restart votes already virtually never succeed without damn good reason.
Timberpoes wrote: Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:21 pm The rules exist to create the biggest possible chance of a cool shift of SS13. They don't exist to allow admins to create the most boring interpretation of SS13.
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Re: Restart votes should succeed by default when an admin is on

Post by Vekter » #665007

CPTANT wrote: Sun Feb 12, 2023 8:52 pm
Vekter wrote: Sun Feb 12, 2023 8:14 pm
CPTANT wrote: Sun Feb 12, 2023 11:35 am
Vekter wrote: Sat Feb 11, 2023 11:12 pm
CPTANT wrote: Mon Feb 06, 2023 8:23 am
Mothblocks wrote: Mon Feb 06, 2023 7:38 am Yes, it is better for people to be stuck on a broken round once while I solidly deduce the issue and make sure it never happens to anyone again than to let it restart and happen to everyone else god knows how many times while they hope to pull in someone who will waste their time independently figuring out what I was already going to
There is nothing stopping you from doing this, you would only have to press a single button, with plenty of time, you can even have multiple visual and audio hints that your attention is needed.
Or, we could just keep things as they are now and let admins decide if the round needs to be restarted or not.
The OP already explains why this should be changed.
And I firmly disagree with your logic, if someone's AFK on the server then you should urgent adminhelp so we can fix the issue. This doesn't happen enough to warrant changing the entire system so you can reboot a round without us noticing while we're online.
Without you noticing? If after multiple warnings you still can't be bothered to pay attention to a restart vote then you clearly have no investment in a round. It's ultimately the players that play the game not the admins, restart votes already virtually never succeed without damn good reason.
So here's the problem with your logic on this. We could either:

1) Spend a few hours coding out a specific system that warns admins with a sound and pop-up whenever a restart vote happens and change how we do restart votes so they automatically restart even if someone is on, or
2) Leave it how it is and use the existing system (urgent adminhelps) to do literally exactly the same thing and not have to worry about people acting in poor faith ruining the round.

There's literally no benefit to this idea aside from "We get to reboot the server sometimes without an admin interfering even if they're online".
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Reply PM from-REDACTED/(REDACTED): i tried to remove the bruises by changing her gender

PM: Bluespace->Delaron: Nobody wants a mime's asscheeks farting on their brig windows.

PM: REDACTED->HotelBravoLima: Oh come on, knowing that these are hostile aliens is metagaming

[17:43] <Aranclanos> any other question ping me again
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Re: Restart votes should succeed by default when an admin is on

Post by CPTANT » #665008

Vekter wrote: Sun Feb 12, 2023 9:30 pm
CPTANT wrote: Sun Feb 12, 2023 8:52 pm
Vekter wrote: Sun Feb 12, 2023 8:14 pm
CPTANT wrote: Sun Feb 12, 2023 11:35 am
Vekter wrote: Sat Feb 11, 2023 11:12 pm
CPTANT wrote: Mon Feb 06, 2023 8:23 am
Mothblocks wrote: Mon Feb 06, 2023 7:38 am Yes, it is better for people to be stuck on a broken round once while I solidly deduce the issue and make sure it never happens to anyone again than to let it restart and happen to everyone else god knows how many times while they hope to pull in someone who will waste their time independently figuring out what I was already going to
There is nothing stopping you from doing this, you would only have to press a single button, with plenty of time, you can even have multiple visual and audio hints that your attention is needed.
Or, we could just keep things as they are now and let admins decide if the round needs to be restarted or not.
The OP already explains why this should be changed.
And I firmly disagree with your logic, if someone's AFK on the server then you should urgent adminhelp so we can fix the issue. This doesn't happen enough to warrant changing the entire system so you can reboot a round without us noticing while we're online.
Without you noticing? If after multiple warnings you still can't be bothered to pay attention to a restart vote then you clearly have no investment in a round. It's ultimately the players that play the game not the admins, restart votes already virtually never succeed without damn good reason.
So here's the problem with your logic on this. We could either:

1) Spend a few hours coding out a specific system that warns admins with a sound and pop-up whenever a restart vote happens and change how we do restart votes so they automatically restart even if someone is on, or
2) Leave it how it is and use the existing system (urgent adminhelps) to do literally exactly the same thing and not have to worry about people acting in poor faith ruining the round.

There's literally no benefit to this idea aside from "We get to reboot the server sometimes without an admin interfering even if they're online".
Or we don't get stuck with a broken server and a blocked restart by someone who is not actually there.
Timberpoes wrote: Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:21 pm The rules exist to create the biggest possible chance of a cool shift of SS13. They don't exist to allow admins to create the most boring interpretation of SS13.
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Re: Restart votes should succeed by default when an admin is on

Post by Vekter » #665012

CPTANT wrote: Sun Feb 12, 2023 10:04 pm Or we don't get stuck with a broken server and a blocked restart by someone who is not actually there.
Do you know how urgent adminhelps work? We get a Discord ping when someone puts one out, someone WILL see that the server is broken and come fix it.
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Reply PM from-REDACTED/(REDACTED): i tried to remove the bruises by changing her gender

PM: Bluespace->Delaron: Nobody wants a mime's asscheeks farting on their brig windows.

PM: REDACTED->HotelBravoLima: Oh come on, knowing that these are hostile aliens is metagaming

[17:43] <Aranclanos> any other question ping me again
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Re: Restart votes should succeed by default when an admin is on

Post by CPTANT » #665014

Vekter wrote: Sun Feb 12, 2023 10:43 pm
CPTANT wrote: Sun Feb 12, 2023 10:04 pm Or we don't get stuck with a broken server and a blocked restart by someone who is not actually there.
Do you know how urgent adminhelps work? We get a Discord ping when someone puts one out, someone WILL see that the server is broken and come fix it.
I don't know what you are trying to say, you can send urgent adminhelps when there are no admins online, we are talking about inactive admins blocking the vote so as far as I know there won't be any urgent adminhelp.
Timberpoes wrote: Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:21 pm The rules exist to create the biggest possible chance of a cool shift of SS13. They don't exist to allow admins to create the most boring interpretation of SS13.
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Re: Restart votes should succeed by default when an admin is on

Post by Mothblocks » #665015

CPTANT wrote: Mon Feb 06, 2023 8:23 am
Mothblocks wrote: Mon Feb 06, 2023 7:38 am Yes, it is better for people to be stuck on a broken round once while I solidly deduce the issue and make sure it never happens to anyone again than to let it restart and happen to everyone else god knows how many times while they hope to pull in someone who will waste their time independently figuring out what I was already going to
There is nothing stopping you from doing this, you would only have to press a single button, with plenty of time, you can even have multiple visual and audio hints that your attention is needed.
that there is a chance that the server can restart while i'm trying to diagnose the issue is why this wont happen
Shaps-cloud wrote: Mon Dec 07, 2020 7:59 am May eventually become one of the illusive maintainer-headmins if they choose to pursue that path, having a coder in the senior admin leadership has usually been positive for both sides in the past.
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Re: Restart votes should succeed by default when an admin is on

Post by Vekter » #665021

CPTANT wrote: Sun Feb 12, 2023 11:00 pm
Vekter wrote: Sun Feb 12, 2023 10:43 pm
CPTANT wrote: Sun Feb 12, 2023 10:04 pm Or we don't get stuck with a broken server and a blocked restart by someone who is not actually there.
Do you know how urgent adminhelps work? We get a Discord ping when someone puts one out, someone WILL see that the server is broken and come fix it.
I don't know what you are trying to say, you can send urgent adminhelps when there are no admins online, we are talking about inactive admins blocking the vote so as far as I know there won't be any urgent adminhelp.
An admin is flagged as AFK if they've been idle for 5 minutes, at which point you can use urgent adminhelps again. I posted a screenshot showing what this looks like.
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Reply PM from-REDACTED/(REDACTED): i tried to remove the bruises by changing her gender

PM: Bluespace->Delaron: Nobody wants a mime's asscheeks farting on their brig windows.

PM: REDACTED->HotelBravoLima: Oh come on, knowing that these are hostile aliens is metagaming

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Re: Restart votes should succeed by default when an admin is on

Post by Super Aggro Crag » #665059

you WILL play on the broken server and you WILL wait 3 hours for the round to end and you WILL NOT bother the admins about it!
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Re: Restart votes should succeed by default when an admin is on

Post by oranges » #665063

we're not changing it, if admisn don't' listen to you on restart votes take it up with the admin team.
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