[Necropost] Why not impersonation?

[Likteer]

Sorry for reviving my own closed thread.

There was a common theme of "being always able to trust your boss is bad, bad boss can be interesting".
I concur.
Yet nobody replied/referred to the idea that the same could be achieved by antagonists impersonating them instead
(which presumably would become more worthwile),
even when I specifically asked.

So again, what's wrong with that?

[TheLoLSwat]

because it’s kind of a niche that can only really be explored as changeling or traitor and even the latter does a pretty bad job at it because anyone with more than 10 hours will notice you show up in a mask/hat that covers your hair and face that you refuse to take off like a fat kid with a shirt in a pool. That doesn’t even go into the actual speaking/moving differences that will for sure tip anyone off.

It’s not a bad idea, it’s just way too narrow when we are discussing something like removing heads from antag rolls and it’s not close to a viable “replacement”

[Jacquerel]

People don't roleplay enough for impersonation to be worth pursuing even with antagonists explicitly designed to do so (changeling, paradox clone) and will resort to the hardest tells they can find the moment they have an iota of suspicion.

[dendydoom]

it's only viable if the end goal is to impersonate for the sake of impersonation.

in reality, impersonation is incredibly difficult to pull off and doesn't actually offer you a lot of reward.

the easiest culprit for this is something like progression traitors encouraging easy objectives to gain TC (which is a far more effective way to gain tangible power) and those objectives don't encourage things like impersonation to achieve them.

it's also the case where a lot of items available for antagonists don't really encourage subterfuge in that sense. if you're a traitor you need to cover your face and also disguise your voice and then never remove either of those things. it's also pretty suspicious unless you're the type of head that can get away with wearing a modsuit the entire round.

a ling could pull it off, but again it's a case where if people are aware a ling is around, they will be looking for tells like fake clothes etc.

i would like to see more of this, but the tools sneaky antags have available doesn't really encourage it as a viable strategy, and even doing so doesn't really reward you with any tangible benefits. it's only an option if your goal is to roleplay for the sake of roleplay, which unfortunately not a lot of people are looking to do.

tl;dr: remove progression traitors

[RedBaronFlyer]

see, this is why I type ingame with an exaggerated southern accent so when people try to impersonate me it's instantly given away

When someone doesn't use ain't, y'all, all y'all, or shorten some words that end with g such as going to goin' or some words such as around being shortened to 'round:


(the real reason is that I like doing an exaggeration of my real life accent)

but yeah, from what I've seen, disguises seem to work best when you use them like TF2 spy disguises, aka it works when someone gives you a quick momentary glance before looking away, but any longer and you usually get found out.

[DrAmazing343]

As much as I appreciate bringing up the fun topic of impersonating to leverage the sort of OOC salid mentality as a weapon when valid, I don’t think it changes much ultimately for the reasons Dendy’s given.

The most success I’ve had with impersonation was getting implant research and printing some implant tools, and then absorbing a secoff to take their place. It more or less made the rest of the round easy mode, but was a shitload of setup for what was ultimately kind of a one off thing that I’m not huge on doing again. And that was as changeling, THE impersonator!

I still don’t find my opinion on headtags changed, and I doubt Timber or Burger will either.

[Likteer]

► Show Spoiler

As much as I appreciate bringing up the fun topic of impersonating to leverage the sort of OOC salid mentality as a weapon when valid, I don’t think it changes much ultimately for the reasons Dendy’s given.

The most success I’ve had with impersonation was getting implant research and printing some implant tools, and then absorbing a secoff to take their place. It more or less made the rest of the round easy mode, but was a shitload of setup for what was ultimately kind of a one off thing that I’m not huge on doing again. And that was as changeling, THE impersonator!

I still don’t find my opinion on headtags changed, and I doubt Timber or Burger will either.

Although I would have liked it to be tested, thank you.
I appreciate you taking the time on both of these threads.

[Timberpoes]

There's nothing wrong with it. Impersonating other players is already allowed in the antag rules and some antags, like Changeling and possibly even Comms Agent, revolve around the mechanic.

Naturally, if you want to see how your idea works in practice then look at how often players impersonate and inflitrate sec - the quintessential privileged non-antag team with a slew of implicit and explicit metaprotections just for being sec.

It basically never happens. Impersonating other players is hard and the benefits rarely outweigh the downsides. It's an awful lot of effort to find a guaranteed non-antag head, kill them and assume their identity without being discovered to the extent that you can actually antagonise your new department without instantly being found out and killed because heads can't do that stuff as they're not antags.

So the problem with saying "just impersonate heads" is it's sorta like saying "just flap your arms to fly". You kinda need to be a bird to make it happen and even then some birds can't fly.

[britgrenadier1]

There's nothing wrong with it. Impersonating other players is already allowed in the antag rules and some antags, like Changeling and possibly even Comms Agent, revolve around the mechanic.

Naturally, if you want to see how your idea works in practice then look at how often players impersonate and inflitrate sec - the quintessential privileged non-antag team with a slew of implicit and explicit metaprotections just for being sec.

It basically never happens. Impersonating other players is hard and the benefits rarely outweigh the downsides. It's an awful lot of effort to find a guaranteed non-antag head, kill them and assume their identity without being discovered to the extent that you can actually antagonise your new department without instantly being found out and killed because heads can't do that stuff as they're not antags.

So the problem with saying "just impersonate heads" is it's sorta like saying "just flap your arms to fly". You kinda need to be a bird to make it happen and even then some birds can't fly.

The reason why people don’t impersonate security is because they’re mindshielded. You don’t just need to kill them and get their gear, you need to get a mindshield too. That means getting a warden or HoS ID and then grabbing a shield without anyone seeing you. Heads are way different and easier to impersonate.

[GamerAndYeahMick]

Seems resolved