Binalarin

For people who can't read the FNR rules.

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paprika
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Re: Nalar

Postby paprika » Tue Jun 03, 2014 2:36 pm #10990

Holy fuck Nalar this entire subforum was my idea where the fuck do you get off deleting my post in skorvold's thread saying that what you stated was incorrect? Seriously, all of you forum mods are so fucking delete-happy it makes me gag. Calm it the fuck down.
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Re: Nalar

Postby danno » Tue Jun 03, 2014 2:49 pm #10995

I kind of feel the same way (to a much lesser extent). It might be time to get some perspective. You can loosen your grip when it comes to these things, not everything has to be policed so strictly.
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Nalar
 
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Re: Nalar

Postby Nalar » Tue Jun 03, 2014 4:13 pm #10999

I've kinda publically stated in each thread that these threads are for feedback for each specific admin, not for discussing bans. Keep posts on-topic and you won't have issues with them being policed.

I'm not even being that strict with it, either, but your feedback has been noted.
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Re: Nalar

Postby paprika » Tue Jun 03, 2014 4:36 pm #11002

Well that's not what they're for.

Look at my post at the top of the forum, the poll thread(I edited to be more clear just for you) and go edit those OPs because I'm not sure what you all have done with this but it's gone from a decent medium to discuss bans and how people administrate to an IGN rating system where it's just feedback-only. That's not what it's for. Don't enforce shit like that. If people have problems with how an admin handled a ban, how they behaved, or if they just want to leave some nice comments and tell them to keep it up, FEEDBACK is where it's discussed, in a polite way, to shed light on how the community generally views an administrator. We had NO medium to do that before this, which is why I suggested it back in february.

How can you tell an admin how he's doing, without mentioning that they handled a ban wrong in your opinion, maybe inciting a good discussion about said admin's thought process behind banning someone or handling a situation? THAT is what this forum is for, not useless UR GOOD, UR BAD bullshit.

Skorvold's thread was exactly that until you butted in for literally no reason.

As for NikNak's message at the top of these posts? That wasn't my idea, I had no input on any of that. NikNak doesn't understand what this forum is for and that's on him. But that doesn't change that you ruined a perfectly decent discussion that could have yielded something good, just because it was centered around a ban. Seriously? Of course feedback and discussions in feedback threads will be centered around bans, that's what administrators do.
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Nalar
 
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Re: Nalar

Postby Nalar » Tue Jun 03, 2014 4:50 pm #11004

I didn't delete any posts, other than the one you made that was going to derail the entire thread, since a majority of it was providing actual feedback specific to the administrator. I didn't butt in so much as remind people to keep it on topic for what, to my knowledge, these threads are about.

Anyway, administrators don't just ban people, if you think an admins job is centered around that, you're slightly off. Administrators are here to administrate the server, which covers everything from fixing ingame bugs, to helping new guys, to running events and keeping rounds going if things have died off too early, to banning or warning people who break the rules. Bans are only a section of an admins job, and all of that can be commented on and talked about. Discussing bans is, to my understanding, something that can be kept to ban appeals by whoever got banned and and the administrator, or at a stretch, things being banned for in policy discussion threads. Stenography, that is, discussing someone elses ban between community members who aren't involved, doesn't exist and isn't what feedback threads are actually for. What I just described is what Scorvolds thread was turning into, which is why I said 'hey keep on topic'.

If my interperetation really was wrong, I expect a site admin or someone to correct me, but to my knowledge feedback threads are for specific feedback for administrators, and it's not stated anywhere else otherwise that that's not what they're for.
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Re: Nalar

Postby NikNakFlak » Tue Jun 03, 2014 5:06 pm #11010

As for NikNak's message at the top of these posts? That wasn't my idea, I had no input on any of that. NikNak doesn't understand what this forum is for and that's on him. But that doesn't change that you ruined a perfectly decent discussion that could have yielded something good, just because it was centered around a ban. Seriously? Of course feedback and discussions in feedback threads will be centered around bans, that's what administrators do.


I copied the Intro from the old forums. "But NikNak, This isn't the old forums! Erro is gone!" But Errorage didn't write the Intro's, the headmins did, more specifically Intigracy. "But NikNak, Inti is gone!" We needed feedback threads, no one else made them, I went with what was decided at an earlier time, because no one else did anything.
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Re: Nalar

Postby paprika » Tue Jun 03, 2014 5:07 pm #11011

>intigracy completely didn't understand what the point of the forum was

WHAT A SURPRISE

Nalar wrote:Administrators are here to administrate the server

Holy shit shut up with this, I already told you why discussing bans in the feedback thread is okay.

Saying "administrators don't only ban!" and then going on a big rant about the other minor fucking things administrators do is so pointless and I seriously suggest you drop this attitude. I didn't even say that's all administrators do. I said it's a thing they do. It's actually one of the things they do the most often, and trying to be a smartass just to "technically" prove me wrong is pretty hilarious, especially when you didn't pay attention to my post and tried to bisect it just to be an asshole.

I'm going to break out the allcaps and put it nice and simply for you, so hopefully you and other moderators can finally realize the point of this forum.

BAN APPEALS ARE NOT FOR DISCUSSION ABOUT HOW ADMINS ADMINISTRATE AND HANDLE BANS. THEY'RE FOR DISCUSSION AMONG ADMINS AND THOSE INVOLVED OF WHETHER OR NOT A PLAYER BROKE THE RULES AND OR AN APOLOGY.

ADMIN COMPLAINTS ARE NOT FOR DISCUSSION ABOUT HOW ADMINS ADMINISTRATE AND HANDLE BANS. THEY'RE FOR SPECIFIC, MAJOR INSTANCES OF POOR ADMIN CONDUCT. (SPECIFIC BANS ARE PROBABLY GOOD EXAMPLES OF THIS DUH, BUT NOT DISCUSSED IN THE SENSE THAT THE FEEDBACK FORUM IS USED FOR)

FEEDBACK IS WHERE PEOPLE CAN DISCUSS DIRECTLY WITH ADMINS ABOUT HOW THEY ADMINISTRATE. THIS IS INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO HOW THEY HANDLE BANS, AND SPECIFIC EXAMPLES (LIKE THE SKORVOLD/IAN THING) WILL BE BROUGHT UP AND IT IS NOT OFF TOPIC TO DISCUSS OLD BANS WITH AN ADMIN IN THESE THREADS. IT'S ALMOST IDENTICAL TO DISCUSSING IT WITH AN ADMIN ON IRC -- EXCEPT LESS PERSONAL, AND MULTIPLE PARTIES CAN ENGAGE IN THE ~DYNAMIC~ THREAD REPLY FORMAT. IT'S ALSO PUBLIC SO AN ADMIN DOESN'T HAVE TO REPEAT THE THOUGHT PROCESS BEHIND A BAN A BILLION TIMES TO DIFFERENT PEOPLE IF THEY DON'T WANT TO.

FUCK.
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Re: Nalar

Postby Nalar » Tue Jun 03, 2014 5:41 pm #11026

You're right! Brushing past and using a ban as a reference isn't necessarily bad, but having multiple community members just talking about whether that ban or invalid is what's bad, and is exactly why I said 'don't discuss bans here'. That's what usually comes of it, that's what I put a stop to. That is not why feedback threads are there. I'm cool with an admin explaining their thought process, I'm not cool with the entire thread derailing and turning into a discussion, one that barely even involves the admin who banned the guy at one point, about a specific ban and whether or not it was invalid and such.

Arguing with you is pointless and achieves nothing, so I'll stop here. If I am wrong i'm sure one of the powers that be will correct me.
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Re: Nalar

Postby paprika » Tue Jun 03, 2014 5:47 pm #11029

Saying 'don't discuss bans here' was what I take issue with, not only just you, but in the OPs of the threads themselves. Skorvold explaining his thought process behind the ban is what actually came out of it, which is the intended effect of the feedback forum, before you said it was some kind of a bad thing for valid and invalid to be discussed. I agree there's a point where it reaches the level of policy discussion and should be shifted, which is what you should be telling people to do, not just telling them to shut up. Don't put a 'stop to' any good discussion, just move it if it's really at that point. Telling people to stop just ruins potential discussion and puts issues with the game and administrative policy on the shelf which should be avoided. Unless it's shitflinging which is bad, but that wasn't.
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Nalar
 
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Re: Nalar

Postby Nalar » Tue Jun 03, 2014 5:53 pm #11031

There's no where to move it to, since we don't allow stenography, and at that point I didn't have any good options other than to just end that discussion and get the topic back to where it's meant to be going. If there was, I overlooked it/failed to see it entirely. Anyway. Yeah, those threads really aren't for discussing specific bans among community members, but I hold no issue with someone bringing it up and the admin explaining the thought process as long as it doesn't turn into a giant discussion across everyone but the admin.
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Re: Nalar

Postby paprika » Tue Jun 03, 2014 5:58 pm #11035

Isn't that a policy issue? The whole valid discussion? There's a policy discussion subforum, direct people there policy discussion really gets out of hand in feedback threads.
Oldman Robustin wrote:It's an established meme that coders don't play this game.

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Nalar
 
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Re: Nalar

Postby Nalar » Tue Jun 03, 2014 6:04 pm #11038

If you mean about community members arguing with other community members about whether a ban is invalid or valid which should be kept away from admin feedback threads then not really?

If you mean about specific instances of bans being invalid, yeah that's a policy thing at times, but sometimes it isn't (depends on the direction and underlying topic of the discussion).

Also I can confirm that Nalar is a huge derp and should apologize for his idiocy. Also needs reading glasses.
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Re: Nalar

Postby WeeYakk » Thu Jun 05, 2014 10:37 am #11503

Are we allowed to complain or compliment people for their forum moderating here? Because you're on the same level of over bearing as Niknak. People aren't robots, conversations naturally diverge from their intended topics at times, often times it is healthy for keeping the discussion going.
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Nalar
 
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Re: Nalar

Postby Nalar » Thu Jun 05, 2014 12:52 pm #11534

From what I gather from talking with MSO and on the mod forums, no that's meant to be kept to PMs or something. These threads are for providing feedback on server administration. Also yes, I can be a little overzealous at times, something i'm working on improving.
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Re: Nalar

Postby miggles » Thu Jun 05, 2014 11:43 pm #11709

It's good to see headmins from other servers adminning here (Aurx, Nalar) as it brings in new perspectives for how we do things.
However, I feel as if Nalar has more or less used his position as a global moderator to change things to his perspective in a way that goes against what has been established and what makes sense for us.
Not being allowed to discuss bans in Admin Feedback pretty much nullifies the entire point of the board, for reasons I've explained to you already in the moderator forum. Unless it's straight-up shitposting, which I can understand, leaving feedback for admins in any form is exactly what this board is for. Bans included, as that is the largest portion of an admin's job. Trying to ultrapolice exactly what topic is for which thread is needless obsession and discourages actual important feedback being shared in favor of having things super organized. People shouldn't have to make policy discussion threads if they simply want to talk about how they disagree or agree with a ban or the rules that are related to it. If they actually want to make a change in policy, that's what that's for. If they simply want to discuss whether the ban is good or not on its own, there is no other outlet for that than feedback. Complaints are much more serious and usually only for the person who feels wronged to make a topic about.
I don't think that enforcing the rules of organization this strictly benefits anyone, especially when discussing bans in admin feedback threads was allowed on the old forum. With a new admin, Nalar, suddenly spearheading a change in the system of an entire FNR board, it feels as if he is invading rather than lending a hand. This change alone has negatively affected my opinion of Nalar. I don't feel it's warranted.
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Nalar
 
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Re: Nalar

Postby Nalar » Fri Jun 06, 2014 12:25 am #11725

What you're complaining about has been addressed, and I've been corrected by MSO and Jordie and other moderators, as previously said. Yes, my interperetation was wrong, I'm sorry, and I've already apologized for that.

I can't really say I agree with that accusation, I've only touched that subforum... once(?) and made an incorrect interperetation. I usually just moderate other subforums if it's needed and make sure ban requests/ban appeals don't have unnecessary peanut posts everywhere.

I'm human, I oops sometimes and I'll take responsibility for the mess I make. Accusing me of trying to twist everything to my perspective because of that? Eeeh definitely unwarranted. But okay.

As for my slight overzealousness, yeah that's a thing I'm working on improving, it's mostly just being eager to be helpful which i'm adjusting to avoid. Can't say much more than that.
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Re: Nalar

Postby miggles » Fri Jun 06, 2014 12:28 am #11728

That's all I could ask for. Thank you.
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Binalarin

Postby Jordie0608 » Fri Jun 06, 2014 3:33 am #11756

You dorks. Admin feedback is for admins.
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