/tg/Station 13

afelinidisfinetoo

Hello digg! actually a serious post: when one choice wins by a relatively slim margin, going "all the way" with it will piss off far more people than a compromise, all you delusional redditoids were never going to get anything better than this really That's right, you have to make everyon...

afelinidisfinetoo

Did he say that they'd never get merged ever unless they won? To my knowledge he never said "Etherals will absolutely not be merged if catgirls win the vote", but he did say, emphatically: "The only guaranteed merge for etherals is if catgirls lose the vote." I specifically reme...

afelinidisfinetoo

I expertly dodged that question because I have no right to complain after I had the chance to complain before it went up and didn't Okay, makes sense. It is really the cardinal sin of this whole thing, I don't care about anything else. I find it particularly awful that oranges publicly broadcasted ...

afelinidisfinetoo

Having too many races would give the game a "petting zoo" type of feel, and it would dilute the amount of attention and effort each individual race would get. This has been a problem in other servers. Flypeople are intentionally unpopular, given that they're a punishment race. They probab...

afelinidisfinetoo

iamgoofball wrote:...

I genuinely am not an alt. I don't know what else I can say on the matter. Also, it would not change what I'm saying if I was an alt.

afelinidisfinetoo

Are you intentionally ignoring the reasonings for wanting to remove Catpeople? I absolutely am not ignoring the reasons why people want catgirls removed, but I am not accepting the bullshit desperation answer that it's because we simply must remove a race to make room for etherals. There are many, ...

afelinidisfinetoo

You were exactly right, controversy is grounds for removal, and that is why we have to remove oranges. You said it better than I could have. I'm glad you've seen the light on the catgirl issue. Good luck with removing oranges! Great, then this issue is closed. I still have some unanswered questions...

afelinidisfinetoo

The mobius loop of retardation >I want this feature removed, I will complain about it >People are saying there is no reason to remove it?! This is controversy! >It is controversial, see? This is why you should remove it! It's like getting arrested for the sole charge of resisting arrest. I can barel...

afelinidisfinetoo

Except the level of controversy surrounding Catpeople has resulted in a unprecedented level of administration interventions, including multiple config changes, many polls and entire campaigns based around the retention or removal of them. Oranges as well. This whole thread is the result of his acti...

afelinidisfinetoo

You'd have to be blind to miss the fact that ever since Catpeople were added we've seen constant and consistent debates, discussion and drama surrounding them. I do not think there is any other feature in the game that has gained this level of controversy over such an extended period of time. You a...

afelinidisfinetoo

There has never been a debate on removing Flypeople, they are a punishment race for misusing a ingame mechanic. The issue has been congestion of round start races, of which Catpeople are. Flypeople are a roundstart race, as I have already said earlier. >roundstart dumb person Flypeople are a rounds...

afelinidisfinetoo

Steelpoint wrote:No other race has gained as much controversy as Catpeople, so it does make sense they'd be up on the exchange board for something more desirable.

Controversy is absolutely not a reason to remove something. Oranges is really controversial, I guess we had better remove him as headcoder.

afelinidisfinetoo

flypeople exist as a punishment for teleporter abuse and therefore have gameplay value Okay, let's have a vote concerning whether flypeople or felinids should be removed to "make room" for etherals, if you are really unironically backing yourself into the tiny, tiny corner of saying that ...

afelinidisfinetoo

saying it's a bribe is a strange argument because it's admitting that ethereals are a more desirable race than cats. If they weren't then it wouldn't be a bribe. And if one feature is more desirable than another then it makes sense to replace the less good with the more good. Etherals are brand new...

afelinidisfinetoo

oh whoops he stuck it in announcements which I don't check ever. What about the compromise doesn't satisfy you? The fact that any action whatsoever was taken based on the results of a flawed, biased vote that bribes the voter with the promise of new content in exchange for oranges' favored result w...

afelinidisfinetoo

Lazengann wrote:he hasn't even officially announced the results and what's going to be done

He did
https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 4&p=453522

afelinidisfinetoo

it was a joint effort between departments and this is what we ended up with And in this joint effort between the very separate & distinct departments of code and server, I think it would be fair to say that oranges deserves the majority of the blame for the poll being botched given that he wrot...

afelinidisfinetoo

he's the code guy, headmins aren't able to take code action on the results because that's how separation of codebase and server goes Oranges wrote the poll options himself. PKP, someone defending him earlier in the thread, said this and seems to be sure of it. If headmins are responsible for polls ...

afelinidisfinetoo

no the headmins are in charge of server polls because that's how the separation of codebase and server goes Why did oranges make the poll, then? And why is he announcing the results? What do headmins have to do with oranges bribing the voter to get his favored result? It was oranges who said, "...

afelinidisfinetoo

headmins signed off on it and then were too embarrassed to correct it when the implications of the wording was brought to their attention after Regardless of whether other people agreed to the poll, oranges made the poll. Is the person making the poll not meant to be totally impartial? It doesn't l...

afelinidisfinetoo

A true /tg/ server would know that as long as there are 2 cats, you'll never get rid of them.

afelinidisfinetoo

If the majority of players want felinids gone, then that's fine, but we can't have a poll that makes people think they won't get ethereals or whatever else without also removing cats. Oranges took great pains to let everyone know that he would not merge ethereals unless they voted to remove cats. T...

afelinidisfinetoo

As soon as foreskin restoration treatments reach the market, all of these American mutilation victims are going to change their minds about catgirls.

afelinidisfinetoo

I guess it could be an attempt to embitter the playerbase against felinids by making then a race nobody besides a few can play, so the next vote can be won without rigging it like this one. But I think it's more likely that he really just thought "Hm... if I just do this... then it will have th...

afelinidisfinetoo

with enough time, the remove option wins, while' still preventing those people with investment in their catgirl characters from feeling alienated immediately. Long term, the outcome is still as the poll wants. Why are you distancing yourself? You rigged the poll. It's what you want, not what the po...

afelinidisfinetoo

Steelpoint wrote:Thats the point of a compromise.

I think the point of a compromise is actually to make both parties happy, not to make both parties unhappy.

afelinidisfinetoo

I think we should respect that result, but I am not immune to the arguments that there are people who have a lot of investment in their cat character. What about the argument that you should not have included a "Remove felinids and merge ethereals" option without a "Keep felinids and...

afelinidisfinetoo

Being honest, if a headadmin felt like oranges was rigging this thing. They'd of commented in this thread already r It doesn't matter if the president of Earth comes and says oranges didn't rig the poll. Oranges did rig the poll. The poll is rigged, and oranges made it... so he rigged the poll. Did...

afelinidisfinetoo

Oranges, could you explain why you have abandoned the pretense of a fair vote and are now playing the "I am the head coder, I say felinids go, there are too many races" card? What was the point of the vote, then? Did you just hope that you could get your way without showing your true nature?

afelinidisfinetoo

afelinidisfinetoo

Qbmax32 wrote: [img]https://image.ibb.co/iZ9R8V/Screenshot-2018-11-10-at-9-45-21-PM.png[/img]

You joined a year ago so you're correct, I guess?
I haven't seen join date elitism since GameFAQs was popular

afelinidisfinetoo

I guess I'm just smarter than them I guess you are smarter than the players, too? Did you think they would not notice that the vote is rigged? It's the first thing everyone said when it went live on the server. I'm not going to give you the benefit of the doubt if you refuse to answer anything. I t...

afelinidisfinetoo

manipulated the headadmins into signing off on this poll that I rigged I guess this is the closest thing we're going to get to an answer for what you did, that "It was the headmins' fault for agreeing to it" You wrote the poll options, isn't that right? PKP said that himself and he's defe...

afelinidisfinetoo

oranges wrote:/tg/station

I've always seen it branded as TGstation because it's no longer associated with the board

afelinidisfinetoo

maybe people from hippie joined here to vote no to catgirls but I wonder which server has the kind of person to create an alt account and spam OOC on a server they don't play to lie to convince people to vote for catgirls I play on TG every day, what are you talking about? Why are oranges & fri...

afelinidisfinetoo

oranges wrote:I already answered and you said I was trying to make a joke out of it

You are doubling down now, and that's okay. I understand. You would look ridiculous if you tried to genuinely answer.

afelinidisfinetoo

maybe people from hippie joined here to vote no to catgirls but I wonder which server has the kind of person to create an alt account and spam OOC on a server they don't play to lie to convince people to vote for catgirls I play on TG every day, what are you talking about? Why are oranges & fri...

afelinidisfinetoo

well like they said, a catgirl dunked me one time, so I had to create this vast conspiracy where I waited to become headcoder, manipulated the headadmins into signing off on this poll that I rigged with filters and bribes and then executed the vote according to my will, so that finally, finally, I ...

afelinidisfinetoo

We haven't even announced what we plan to do yet. You plan to do it based on the results of a poll that you rigged, be it through negligence or purposefully. Why should anyone be content with it? And instead of PKP being your whipping boy, could you answer the OP for yourself? Why did you do the po...

afelinidisfinetoo

My guess to actually answer the question is that ultimately oranges decides what goes in and out of the game, and to him adding a new race requires another to be removed first, so it is a compromise in that sense. I'm aware that realistically they can both exist at the same time but I just don't th...

afelinidisfinetoo

I don’t get how you think including compromises rectifies the fact that you tied a popular, unrelated feature strictly to one side of the poll. Like yeah, you included compromises, well done. People are asking why the poll is enticing voters with the promise of a new, popular feature if they vote a...

afelinidisfinetoo

somerandomguy wrote: Its not irreparable at all
All you would have to do is remove it from the results (or something like that) thanks to IRV

No, this erases those votes (which may well have gone to "keep felinids with no changes", or any other option)

The poll is irreversibly tainted

afelinidisfinetoo

oranges didn't have the last say on the poll options. The headmins have authority over all polls that go on the server, and I think the only reason oranges didn't bring that up is because he's too professional to throw people he works with under the bus. Oranges is responsible for the poll. No one ...

afelinidisfinetoo

Listing compromises is not "voter bribery," and calling is that is a bit underhanded of you, frankly. Voter bribery is when you include a "Remove felinids and add <x> enticing new race" option with no "Keep felinids and add <x> enticing new race" option. That is the de...

afelinidisfinetoo

If you want to vote for a third option but none is presented and yet you vote anyways, your vote may as well be random, and there are players that do this. This is totally irrelevant. A player's preferred option can be absent from an IRV poll just as easily as it can be absent from a yes/no poll. T...

afelinidisfinetoo

somerandomguy wrote:...

The issue here isn't even especially about catgirls, it's that oranges attempted to force his personal will on something that was meant to be a community vote. He will do this in the future if it goes unchallenged. You might not be happy about what he does it for next time.

afelinidisfinetoo

See the first two replies in this thread. I replied to them already, right after them. There is nothing wrong with an IRV poll, but it is factual that a binary yes/no poll introduces no external factors that can taint the results and is the most accurate poll possible if all you want to figure out ...

afelinidisfinetoo

https://i.imgur.com/abbeJfm.png apparently not enough oof Just want to say by the way that oranges threatened to ban me from the server for telling people in OOC that etherals would be merged regardless of what happens with felinids. He backed off, but for a moment there he made a legitimate attemp...

afelinidisfinetoo

granted, I'm not 100% sure the main difference between the polls. It seems a bit strange that when the other options are added to the poll and you stack the options to have 4 removals and 1 non-removal, you're going to have a slight shift away from the original 50-50 split that we saw. The flaw wit...

afelinidisfinetoo

Qustinnus wrote: >roundstart
dumb person

Flypeople are a roundstart race
To all users who do not regularly play the game, I recommend you refrain from commenting in this thread.

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