/tg/Station 13

feem

I'm a fan. Promote.

feem

Sometimes things aren't IC incidents or don't look like IC incidents, and they throw up red flags. If you set off a welderbomb, for example, we get a big notification that you've done so, and what we typically do is check to see if you're an antag or not, and if you're not, it's not uncommon to thro...

feem

oranges wrote:when you turn rule 1 into a list with 8 items :ancap:

i mean apparently a lot of people have difficulty with it

feem

Yeah, sorry, that's on me. I didn't mean to talk in absolutes except where I was quoting explicit rules.

feem

Yeah, I'm really not pleased about that either.

feem

In any case, I think the admin the complaint is about may be Jordie0608, since bluespace is not an admin and there's this line in the log:

[13:09:04] ADMIN: Jordie0608/(Sherlock Bones) used secret showailaws

feem

Actually, sawrge... Laws are listed in order of descending priority. In any case where two laws would conflict, the higher-priority law overrules the lower-priority law. Positive Integer laws ("1. You are expensive to replace") have priority over laws listed after them (Lower numbers overr...

feem

Silicons have explicit protections for precisely this scenario, which is why people upload laws that say etc etc etc like I already said in this thread. You must follow any and all commands from humans unless those commands explicitly conflict with either one of your higher-priority laws or another ...

feem

In this instance, the law wasn't even harmful, and the crew was calling for lynching before the AI even stated the laws. The AI shouldn't be held accountable for the bloodthirstiness of the crew unless _the law is inherently harmful, either by explicit statement or by first-order outcome, e.g. onehu...

feem

You can't have it both ways, Slig. You can't have fuzzy interpretation of badly-worded laws AND have AIs follow implicit, second- and third-order implications of laws. They're meant to be specific. This is exactly why so many people upload 'Do not allude to the existence of this law' and 'Stating th...

feem

In this case, the law itself was NOT ambiguous, but the fact that they weren't instructed not to hint at the law, that they weren't allowed not to indicate that the law existed, that they were only instructed not to STATE the law, did in fact cause an ambiguity. I wholeheartedly disagree with the st...

feem

The thing the AI is actually in violation of is using multiple interpretations in the same round. Ambiguous Laws (Captain Got Freeform) If a clause of a law is vague enough that it can have multiple reasonable interpretations of its exact syntax, it is considered ambiguous. You must choose an interp...

feem

'Do not state this law' laws can be really tricky. If there isn't a rational expectation that human harm could come of it for doing so, then Law 2 supersedes the statement in the law not to state the law. If stating the law causes harm either because the law says that it does or if the law itself wo...

feem

Naah.

feem

i tried to speak the language of the people

feem

they weren't naked, they were wearing permanent horse masks and jabronie suits

feem

if you kill a drone just because you see a drone and make a habit of doing this then you are taking actions to actively deprive other players of their shit and it probably isn't limited to drones and that ends up being a behavior issue if you kill a drone because you're mad and have no other reason ...

feem

if a drone's being a legit fuckhead blow it up or kill it if it does it again or if it's egregious do it again or ahelp it if you're a drone and someone's being a legit fuckhead to you run away if they do it again or you died and there isn't really a reason for that to have happened ahelp it don't b...

feem

As has been said repeatedly in this thread and others, Robustin, admins are usually expected by both other administrators and by players to perform a certain amount of investigation and apply a certain amount of nuance to situations they investigate. There is often not a cut and dry 'if x then y' pr...

feem

Given that you have a long (and pretty good) history, I'm going to remove this and clear it. I have a feeling the player who killed you claimed this in order to get you banned, yeah. I'll edit the note I placed on them, too.

feem

You need to talk to ADMINS via logged communications about ban appeals, primarily the forums or the game itself. This is for the sanity of the headmins (being able to keep track of their admins), for the protection of the admins (so that what players say to them can be logged), and for the protectio...

feem

Be advised, after an extensive conversation with J_Madison in IRC in which numerous attempts to explain the current circumstances were made, I am of the opinion that the player in question neither understands why they were banned nor has any intention of changing the behavior that got them banned in...

feem

I never claimed anything was photoshopped, I'm sorry it was misinterpreted that way.

feem

Okay, first of all, regardless of what result you get, shopping admins literally just means going from admin to admin to see which one is most beneficial to your cause, regardless of what any individual one says. Hence, shopping, e.g., going from store to store or website to website to find a price ...

feem

Shopping, as in, going from one admin to the other.

feem

Shopping admins is a really, really bad look. I don't think this appeal is going to have the outcome you hope for.

feem

By whom? Where?

feem

They're in the post marked 'READ BEFORE POSTING' in this forum.

https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=44

I guess you didn't read it before posting, despite copying the template from there?

feem

5. A permaban may only be appealed once per year unless stated otherwise by the banning admin or a headmin. Subsequent appeals will be automatically rejected and deleted, and may result in a forum ban if repeated. As far as I can tell, the only number provided to you by any member of the admin team...

feem

That's not how this works. That's not how any of this works.

feem

i love this idea

feem

I think that's reasonable

feem

So, you would like the ban reason/note adjusted to reflect that at the time you didn't understand the circumstances?

feem

I think you should probably read the game rules and precedents. https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Rules Please note the sections about team antagonists. You are not allowed to intentionally do anything to harm your team. This includes killing them, ratting them out, or actively working against them. You ...

feem

this is shitminnery but I'm also really not pleased by how viciously and brazenly goof is pursuing his scorched-earth strategy against the admins tonight

feem

Oh man, you're right. My mistake, full retraction of my statement.

This is why I shouldn't post from the airport. Sorry!

feem

---snipped due to a case of mistaken identity---

feem

Not being 'inclined' to do anything means not doing anything.

You were 'inclined' to hide their body.

This thread isn't going anywhere until a headmin comes in on it, I think.

feem

No, I'm calling you argumentative and snarky because everything you say drips with pretension and insincere, obsequious civility, and you refuse to accept anyone telling you that hiding a body that you saw on the floor because they tabled you once is a shitty behavior. Yes, that is de facto vindicti...

feem

You were noted because you moved a body that would likely have been cloned out of just-outside-medbay and into the brig morgue (which, be honest with yourself, people rarely check) because they tabled you earlier and got into some kind of altercation with the warden (which you admitted in your post ...

feem

You have been kicked from the server by icepacks. This is something icepacks has a problem with and he should be talked to about kicks I agree that Icepacks kicks people more than most other admins do. However, it's less than a ban or a note, arguably either on par with or less than a mute (because...

feem

tfw you agree with sawrge

feem

Round 76104, basil, https://tgstation13.org/parsed-logs/basil/data/logs/2017/09/14/round-76104/ Reading through these logs, and ignoring the several instances of borderline OOC in IC (referencing how angry 'the gods' get when you 'mess with security', saying 'W o w', etc), it looks like this is what...

feem

Every situation is different. The process of administrating this game requires constant oversight. I feel it is critically important that 1) Administrators DO act upon situations that they believe require intervention 2) Players and other administrators DO engage with events which are in dispute 3) ...

feem

One of my favorite things I've done as an admin was a situation where someone did a bunch of gamebreaking OOC crap and I was able to manipulate it ICly into a series of escalations between the crew and Centcomm which resulted in the crew winning against a deathsquad.

I'm pretty okay with that.

feem

My thoughts on this: 1) Absent of any existing behavior patterns, in the case of an overreaction that didn't lead to a player death, with no mitigating circumstances, in which recompense could easily be achieved by the wronged player (i.e. aggressor gets dunked), I think that: a) A note may be unnec...

feem

ugh thanks for regurgitating the thread i posted then locked and asked to have deleted, oranges

ugh

feem

I think a critical point has been lost here and that might be partly my fault, early on. 90% of the time a drone bwoink is because they're doing something blatantly, obviously against their laws or blatantly, obviously disruptive. The majority of the rest of what I said, and a lot of what's been dis...

feem

I appreciate that you're proposing making modifications to the game mechanics of spiders. This thread is about policy implications behind their current implementation.

feem

if I see you doing this kind of thing repeatedly I'll give you a ban to cool you off; you should be glad it's a note. Consider it a warning to fucking stop.

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