Cat Ears/Tails

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Fri Jul 03, 2015 12:33 pm #101301

Being serious, I must have misread the PR that implemented them as I did not know it was going to be a ROUNDSTART option, though I blame that on Github being a clusterfuck to keep track off anything.

Say what you want but cat ears is the laziest thing we can thrown in for "fluff" mutations or whatever, its boring, uninspired, generic, stereotypical and overall cringe worthy and I honestly believe it has no place on /tg/station.

This is not feedback about the bugs associated with cat ears, this is feedback about the whole concept and it, in my subjective opinion, being a bad addition to the game.

tedward1337 · Fri Jul 03, 2015 12:49 pm

Pretty much sums up my thoughts on it. Tg isnt the place for cat ears/tails.

Incomptinence · Fri Jul 03, 2015 12:50 pm

They really should have left this stuff to WJ. Now we just get a few abysmal days of half the people not playing as these dull ugly things twaddling about being the worst players they can be because RACE WAR NOW, how tired can a joke be ugh.

mosquitoman · Post by **mosquitoman** » Fri Jul 03, 2015 1:07 pm #101309

There's a lesson here.

First it starts as a regular PR. It's rejected after most people are opposed to it. Then it gets reactivated as an "admin-only" thing. Then an "unfortunate bug" not only causes the whole "admin-only" restriction to be null and void, it also puts cat ears on your character after every round and you have to get rid of them manually. So a change that nobody wanted somehow ended up in the game and is actually enforced against the wishes of the majority of players. As sneaky as USA politics and their "freedom" and "patriot" acts.

Actionb · Post by **Actionb** » Fri Jul 03, 2015 1:24 pm #101312

Please remove the ears and tails entirely. If you want to be a kitty, get theatre access.
Having cat ears or tails brings no 'wow, he's looks alien!' reactions. Tatoos and scars are fine, if you care about one more dark pixel on your character or about customization in general. Add some really wacky mutant stuff, but not these joke accessoires. Not even going to touch the 'muh furry' side of this...

specyalic · Post by **specyalic** » Fri Jul 03, 2015 1:45 pm #101315

a lot of salt for what amounts to a cosmetic change

Wyzack · Post by **Wyzack** » Fri Jul 03, 2015 1:50 pm #101318

I generally think that catpeople stuff is shit, but aside from that this is exactly what everyone was screaming about when lizards got added. And everyone said it was ridiculous slippery slope fearmongering. And yet here we are. I thought Ricotez specifically said it was going to be admin only.

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Fri Jul 03, 2015 1:54 pm #101320

It undoubtly is going to be admin only, but I still think it does not even deserve to be in the code let alone in the admin panel.

Actionb · Post by **Actionb** » Fri Jul 03, 2015 1:59 pm #101322

specyalic wrote:a lot of salt for what amounts to a cosmetic change

Cat ears and tails and a portion of the crew looking like complete twats going nya nya /me licks paws waggle waggle don't belong in a game about killing each other on a space station. Yes, the game is meant to be wacky - no, kitty people aren't wacky.
Might as well give slaughter demons bikehorn on-hit sounds (okay, that could actually be awesome).

Scott · Post by **Scott** » Fri Jul 03, 2015 2:04 pm #101325

It's masturbation material for furfags masqueraded as a feature

Ikarrus · Post by **Ikarrus** » Fri Jul 03, 2015 2:06 pm #101326

The system can be used to support cosmetic options for humans such as scars and tattoos in the future.

Unfortunately it's current implementation had not be thoroughly tested enough before merging.

Incoming · Post by **Incoming** » Fri Jul 03, 2015 4:08 pm #101357

to be fair the system could have done that without this pull, the only really unique thing this pull added that wasn't about the cat features was the ability to check for racial purity by looking over a players mutant parts. This is also the part that bugged out.

Cheimon · Post by **Cheimon** » Fri Jul 03, 2015 4:25 pm #101368

I'm not massively fussed. I do think it's unimaginative and doesn't fit the 'wacky space station in the future' theme, but argonians were already a bit strange on that front.

Ikarrus · Post by **Ikarrus** » Fri Jul 03, 2015 4:31 pm #101378

https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/issues/10349

Ricotez · Post by **Ricotez** » Fri Jul 03, 2015 4:59 pm #101391

Wait, what? Jesus Christ you guys could've told me you finally pulled it after leaving me in limbo for days.

Roundstart is NOT supposed to happen. Randomly getting them is NOT supposed to happen. The whole thing is SUPPOSED to be admin only, as decided in the shitstorm that the original PR caused. I'll try to fix this but none of this shit happened in all those tests I performed locally.

EDIT: Oh fuck me I seriously forgot the null case?

Cuboos · Post by **Cuboos** » Fri Jul 03, 2015 8:15 pm #101436

I say, add more cat accessories until people stop being salty about it, add more if they get angrier.

Ricotez · Post by **Ricotez** » Fri Jul 03, 2015 8:19 pm #101439

Fix up here:

https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/10353

Stickymayhem · Sat Jul 04, 2015 7:19 am

Too late I already poured petrol on the server I'm ready to drop the match.

invisty · Post by **invisty** » Sat Jul 04, 2015 7:20 am #101538

Scott wrote:It's masturbation material for furfags masqueraded as a feature

lol no. Furries dont even twitch for something like this.

This is anime weaboo tier shit.

DemonFiren · Post by **DemonFiren** » Sat Jul 04, 2015 7:23 am #101540

As expert, I am inclined to agree with Invisty.

PURGE THE SERVER OF WEEBS.

Timbrewolf · Post by **Timbrewolf** » Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:07 am #101547

tedward1337 wrote:Pretty much sums up my thoughts on it. Tg isnt the place for cat ears/tails.

But they've existed as a costume item since before most of the people in this thread started playing here. They've always been pretty popular.

I don't care what you guys do I just think it's funny to see people having selective memories.

It only took one dude pushing a cart around to inspire people to make lizards a playable race for everyone.
Around the same time Jon Riker was doing that there was a group of players running around (E)RP'ing as catbeests with ears they either stole, ordered from cargo, or prayed for.

I'm just saying like it or not that shit has been here forever.

Post by **oranges** » Sat Jul 04, 2015 9:15 am #101557

mosquitoman wrote:There's a lesson here.

First it starts as a regular PR. It's rejected after most people are opposed to it. Then it gets reactivated as an "admin-only" thing. Then an "unfortunate bug" not only causes the whole "admin-only" restriction to be null and void, it also puts cat ears on your character after every round and you have to get rid of them manually. So a change that nobody wanted somehow ended up in the game and is actually enforced against the wishes of the majority of players. As sneaky as USA politics and their "freedom" and "patriot" acts.

http://www.xeon.pw/~francis/memes/webm/illuminati.webm

Tokiko2 · Post by **Tokiko2** » Sat Jul 04, 2015 10:00 am #101560

invisty wrote:
Scott wrote:It's masturbation material for furfags masqueraded as a feature
lol no. Furries dont even twitch for something like this.

This is anime weaboo tier shit.

DemonFiren wrote:As expert, I am inclined to agree with Invisty.

PURGE THE SERVER OF WEEBS.

I can't help but be very confused when I see Lizard players posting things like this.

Cheimon · Post by **Cheimon** » Sat Jul 04, 2015 11:10 am #101568

Lizardmen are a Japanese thing?

Remie Richards · Sat Jul 04, 2015 1:24 pm

Cheimon wrote:Lizardmen are a Japanese thing?

I think the confusion more stems from one "oppressed subculture" asking for the other "oppressed subculture" to be purged.
Logic would have the two team up against "oppressors" but lo, it's SS13.

Ricotez · Post by **Ricotez** » Sat Jul 04, 2015 2:07 pm #101588

people really love that slippery slope fallacy dont they?

"BUT LIZARDS STARTED OUT AS ADMIN ONLY AND NOW THEYRE ROUNDSTART"

yes... because the majority of the community accepts them now. roundstart cat people are a matter of policy now there's a config option for them, and given how much opposition there is from the community, that policy will not change. I personally insist on this. if the community does not want roundstart cat people we should not have them, and anyone who asks an admin to use that button I built in should be valid (I even programmed it to warn you that you "feel valid"). I personally don't agree with that policy but the opinion of one coder does not outweigh what the majority of the community wants.

also because it's a config option, other servers can enable it and people who want to play with roundstart cat people can go to those servers.

Miauw · Post by **Miauw** » Sat Jul 04, 2015 2:49 pm #101595

i actually hate cat ears, but if you hate these you have to recognize that the lizard customization is really just as bad, and looks like a clusterfuck.

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Sat Jul 04, 2015 2:54 pm #101596

I know I've harped on about this but I think these customization options we're giving away is a bad thing.

First its subjectivity ugly and secondly it makes disguises all but impossible.

Lets just keep the races and their apperance simple, hairstyles and eye colour should be ample for everyone. At most lizards should get a horn choice.

Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:12 pm

this kind of cosmetic thing fucks actual features like disguising in exchange for, and i say this unironically, people circlejerking over their "lel so fahnny" cat ears

An0n3 wrote:But they've existed as a costume item since before most of the people in this thread started playing here. They've always been pretty popular.

They've always been pretty popular *with the scummiest people on basil who probably have actual real life mental illnesses*. And yes, they've existed as a hat for ages, but at least that's more of an ironic thing and it's a hat and not grafted onto your fucking head.

Scones · Post by **Scones** » Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:17 pm #101659

PKPenguin321 wrote: They've always been pretty popular *with the scummiest people on basil who probably have actual real life mental illnesses*. And yes, they've existed as a hat for ages, but at least that's more of an ironic thing and it's a hat and not grafted onto your fucking head.

I choked in laughter but he's right you know

Post by **Vekter** » Sun Jul 05, 2015 2:37 am #101725

R-r-r-revert pls

Stan_Studnick · Mon Jul 06, 2015 4:41 am

I don't care about the cat ears and tail themselves but holy fuck the nya nya tee hee imma kikitty!! shit needs to fucking go and die. God damn it that's annoying, it isn't even funny or fun, and while I'm usually willing to give the benefit of the doubt on gimmicks.. well, I gave that benefit and I regret it. I'm fine with uguu and silly OOC shit but the moment it went into the actual game I thought it was stupid shit. It's caused some strife between me and certain people, but I'm sorry, it's just annoying and dumb and people are too busy playing catperson to do their actual jobs. (and yeah I've forgiven that behavior because there was roleplay but there is none to be found with the weeb shit)

Not-Dorsidarf · Sun Jul 30, 2023 1:33 am

Ricotez wrote:people really love that slippery slope fallacy dont they?

"BUT LIZARDS STARTED OUT AS ADMIN ONLY AND NOW THEYRE ROUNDSTART"

yes... because the majority of the community accepts them now. roundstart cat people are a matter of policy now there's a config option for them, and given how much opposition there is from the community, that policy will not change. I personally insist on this. if the community does not want roundstart cat people we should not have them, and anyone who asks an admin to use that button I built in should be valid (I even programmed it to warn you that you "feel valid"). I personally don't agree with that policy but the opinion of one coder does not outweigh what the majority of the community wants.

also because it's a config option, other servers can enable it and people who want to play with roundstart cat people can go to those servers.

People accept roundstart lizards because they're forced by server policy to do so. You can't try to start shit with them because *BAN*, you can't treat them as the "second-class citizen" bullshit that was used to drown out the mass "No go away" (People promote lizards to heads/lizards selpromote themselves to heads all the time to evade the restriction), because you'll be lynched by hissing Space Tumblrites, and the "Slippery Slope is a fallacy" argument was literally used to promote them getting in because "Having lizardpeople doesn't mean we'll get stuff like other space furry races, that's a fallacy".

In the meantime, we've had

1) PR for dogpeople race (failed) [I think. They did show up for Spacepril Fools though, which was funny]
2) PR for khajit (failed)
3) PR for animoo catgirls (passed)

What was that about a fallacy again?

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Tue Jul 07, 2015 10:39 am #102211

When Lizards were first implemented it was a very controversial decision, I don't know the stats but it was not a case of unanimous support.

Actionb · Post by **Actionb** » Tue Jul 07, 2015 10:54 am #102214

Lizards are at least a little bit alien compared to humans with cat stuff.
They are reptiles not mammals, have scales instead of skin, hiss due to their tongue, are colorful, some of them even talk/RP in a lizard-y/almost caveman-y way. Xemo with his lemons was a perfect example: weird, obviously different, unique = alien.
The only alien thing about humans with cat ears and tails is their annoying attitude.
Fuck, if you make them quadrupedal tigers with wings that growl instead of talk and had the peculiarity of lizards being their favorite food, we'd have something special about them and I'd be willing to give it a shot.

Ricotez · Post by **Ricotez** » Tue Jul 07, 2015 11:50 am #102222

Not-Dorsidarf wrote:Space Tumblrites

I had a whole post written out but then I read this and realized you're part of the "everyone who's against me is a SJW" crowd so you know what? i'll just boil it down to the essence: lizards and cat people are two separate policies, and you can both change them if you can get the majority of the community behind you. because guess what, the community is not a single-minded entity.

also next time I put up a PR you will wait until *I* make the feedback thread.

Not-Dorsidarf · Sun Jul 30, 2023 1:33 am

Ricotez wrote:
Not-Dorsidarf wrote:Space Tumblrites
I had a whole post written out but then I read this and realized you're part of the "everyone who's against me is a SJW" crowd so you know what? i'll just boil it down to the essence: lizards and cat people are two separate policies, and you can both change them if you can get the majority of the community behind you. because guess what, the community is not a single-minded entity.

also next time I put up a PR you will wait until *I* make the feedback thread.

I also see you're part of the "Everyone who's against me is a memelord/idiot/4channer" crowd.

I'll wait like half an hour like I usually do. Otherwise I don't get to name the thread amusing things when a new development occurs.

Ricotez · Post by **Ricotez** » Tue Jul 07, 2015 12:24 pm #102233

Not-Dorsidarf wrote:I also see you're part of the "Everyone who's against me is a memelord/idiot/4channer" crowd.

Only if Godwin's Law modified for Tumblr applies to them.

Not-Dorsidarf wrote:I'll wait like half an hour like I usually do. Otherwise I don't get to name the thread amusing things when a new development occurs.

A feedback thread is supposed to be neutral ground where people can speak out their opinions. If you put your personal bias in the title, it's not a feedback thread, it's a shitpost.

I mean for fuck's sake, this thing already spawned 3 different feedback threads. First yours, then this one (in the same bloody subforum), and now another one in the Policy Discussion subforum. At least the second and third ones had neutral titles.

Speaking of the feedback thread in Policy Discussion... That is where this discussion is supposed to go now, because cat people are not enabled by round start and if an admin changes someone they are SUPPOSED to be valid.

Not-Dorsidarf · Sun Jul 30, 2023 1:33 am

Feedback is for game feedback, not just feedback on unmerged PRs.

Having a mildly amusing clickbait title hardly makes it a shitpost. All I said in the actual thread was a link to the PR and "Discuss" (Like all my PR Awareness Threads)

Wyzack · Post by **Wyzack** » Tue Jul 07, 2015 12:45 pm #102241

While I am mostly neutral about the whole cat people thing you have to admit that when lizards were added everyone cried that it was the first step to furry weeb shit and the response was mostly "lol slippery slope fallacy" but it turned out to be true. Maybe they deserve a little more consideration this time around

Ricotez · Post by **Ricotez** » Tue Jul 07, 2015 12:51 pm #102242

I'm going to stop discussing this, you can consider yourself having won the discussion. I just feel increasingly apathetic toward my own feature and by now I honestly wish I had never put up the PR.

Spoiler:

Just... Do whatever. Put up a PR to remove this feature. Punish admins who abuse Toggle Purrbation. As long as I don't have to be involved in the discussions any longer.

Wyzack · Post by **Wyzack** » Tue Jul 07, 2015 1:04 pm #102245

> death threats over a 2d toolboxing simulator

Whoever did that is a garbage human and seriously needs some fucking perspective

peoplearestrange · Tue Jul 07, 2015 1:35 pm

Wyzack wrote:> death threats over a 2d toolboxing simulator

Whoever did that is a garbage human and seriously needs some fucking perspective

Seconded.

Personally I don't think its needed as a roundstart option, few people will use it and it causes way too much controversy. Leave it as an admin thing, such as respecting and such already is.

But seriously, get a grip, you don't need to threaten someone over a PR

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Tue Jul 07, 2015 2:28 pm #102268

I find it amusing that many content creators wish that they never did get their content added to the game not long afterwards, interesting trend.

Cat Ears and Tails simply should be either removed, or more likely gated behind admin controls. It should never have been a round start option or choice.

Also, as noted, this whole scenario has given a lot of credit to the people who called the addition of lizards a slippery slope, because they are being proven correct.

Scott · Post by **Scott** » Tue Jul 07, 2015 3:02 pm #102274

taking death threats seriously

Cheridan · Post by **Cheridan** » Tue Jul 07, 2015 3:10 pm #102278

Steelpoint wrote: Also, as noted, this whole scenario has given a lot of credit to the people who called the addition of lizards a slippery slope, because they are being proven correct.

No they're not. The condition for merging the PR was that the cat stuff was made unavailable. They were only available because of a bug, which was quickly fixed: https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/10353

The slope is not slippery
but even if it was, why is that such a big deal? oh no someone has a tail purge the heresy ex dee

Bombadil · Post by **Bombadil** » Tue Jul 07, 2015 3:10 pm #102280

Cheridan wrote:
Steelpoint wrote: Also, as noted, this whole scenario has given a lot of credit to the people who called the addition of lizards a slippery slope, because they are being proven correct.
No they're not. The condition for merging the PR was that the cat stuff was made unavailable. They were only available because of a bug, which was quickly fixed: https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/10353

The slope is not slippery
but even if it was, why is that such a big deal? oh no someone has a tail purge the heresy ex dee

Exterminatus

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Tue Jul 07, 2015 3:15 pm #102286

The reasons are two fold.

Firstly its a aesthetic, cat people are usually just stereotypical, unimaginative, slough that is the cornerstone of anyone without a shred of creativity.

Secondly the Space Station 13 community has a very bad history, current and past, with non-humans that resemble typical furries, and these changes will invite them into our community and, while it might sound elitist for me to say, I do not want those kind of players on /tg/station.

Not-Dorsidarf · Tue Jul 07, 2015 3:17 pm

Ricotez wrote:I got fucking death threats for crying out loud. Someone wanted to kill me over adding a few pixels to a stupid spaceman game. Nothing is worth that.

While I strongly dislike the feature, whoever's enough of a raging cockwad to post death threats on singulo or whatever should punch themself in the face in order to increase their own IQ.

Scott · Post by **Scott** » Tue Jul 07, 2015 3:30 pm #102294

Steelpoint wrote:The reasons are two fold.

Firstly its a aesthetic, cat people are usually just stereotypical, unimaginative, slough that is the cornerstone of anyone without a shred of creativity.

Secondly the Space Station 13 community has a very bad history, current and past, with non-humans that resemble typical furries, and these changes will invite them into our community and, while it might sound elitist for me to say, I do not want those kind of players on /tg/station.

It's not elitist.