Ludicrously short facehugger stun times
-
- Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2014 3:16 am
- Byond Username: WJohnston
Ludicrously short facehugger stun times
So https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/12163 got merged because I guess Razharas somehow didn't read that literally everybody was against this change and that it seemed to be a joke PR.
This PR cuts facehugger stun times down to 1 tick. This is a third the length of a telebaton stun, and in worst case scenarios will only make your model twitch for an instant (and drop your held items) before getting back up already. Then you can just pull the facehugger off and step on it (or ignore it completely because they have a 30 second or 1 minute cooldown before being able to leap again) and go on your merry way like nothing happened.
So I'd like to just list off a few reasons why this is completely ridiculous:
This PR was allegedly intended to make the whole drive-by hunter/facehugger throwing less effective. Ironically it completely failed at that because hunters do not actually really even rely that much on facehugger usage, and they can just leap in its place. So right away the PR failed at its job.
Next, this actually hurts early game xeno A LOT, and makes their power ramp even more vertical by virtue of their starting power being made even lower.
The starting queen massively relies on the facehugger's stun to ward off or catch low-hanging fruit (the idiots that run at the hive en-masse with no protection and only a wrench). This change means that they literally do not need any protection whatsoever to run into the hive and start piling on the queen faster than she can possibly keep them stunned. Basically we're regressing to the "disarm a nuke op, steal his c20r, murder every other nuke op in seconds" level of sillyness, but with xenos, and that's atrocious since at no other time can you simply melee xenos and be that careless.
Now, this is somewhat mitigated by https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/12000 which gives the queen and praetorian a tail sweep attack to deal with the above mentioned swarming. This does not however work as a reliable replacement, as it has a 15 second cooldown and the stun isn't very long (weaken 5). Praetorians are also when you start moving to mid-game, the queen won't get to start with this and trade places while cooldowns recharge.
I'd like to remind everyone that facehuggers aren't even dangerous to start with, even with their old stun times. Seemingly half of the hats available on the station will COMPLETELY protect you from them. If you don't have protection, stay out of the fight and you'll be fine. This doesn't however justify just randomly gimping xenos this hard, because there will still be idiots running at you who will attempt to swarm you. Now you won't even have the facehuggers to give you some breathing room, time to secure people to nests, or watch your back.
Also this PR was merged, and for whatever reason won't be possible to revert for a week because that's a rule we have apparently? So we'll definitely see some playtesting of this without actually using MSO's playtesting system.
This PR cuts facehugger stun times down to 1 tick. This is a third the length of a telebaton stun, and in worst case scenarios will only make your model twitch for an instant (and drop your held items) before getting back up already. Then you can just pull the facehugger off and step on it (or ignore it completely because they have a 30 second or 1 minute cooldown before being able to leap again) and go on your merry way like nothing happened.
So I'd like to just list off a few reasons why this is completely ridiculous:
This PR was allegedly intended to make the whole drive-by hunter/facehugger throwing less effective. Ironically it completely failed at that because hunters do not actually really even rely that much on facehugger usage, and they can just leap in its place. So right away the PR failed at its job.
Next, this actually hurts early game xeno A LOT, and makes their power ramp even more vertical by virtue of their starting power being made even lower.
The starting queen massively relies on the facehugger's stun to ward off or catch low-hanging fruit (the idiots that run at the hive en-masse with no protection and only a wrench). This change means that they literally do not need any protection whatsoever to run into the hive and start piling on the queen faster than she can possibly keep them stunned. Basically we're regressing to the "disarm a nuke op, steal his c20r, murder every other nuke op in seconds" level of sillyness, but with xenos, and that's atrocious since at no other time can you simply melee xenos and be that careless.
Now, this is somewhat mitigated by https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/12000 which gives the queen and praetorian a tail sweep attack to deal with the above mentioned swarming. This does not however work as a reliable replacement, as it has a 15 second cooldown and the stun isn't very long (weaken 5). Praetorians are also when you start moving to mid-game, the queen won't get to start with this and trade places while cooldowns recharge.
I'd like to remind everyone that facehuggers aren't even dangerous to start with, even with their old stun times. Seemingly half of the hats available on the station will COMPLETELY protect you from them. If you don't have protection, stay out of the fight and you'll be fine. This doesn't however justify just randomly gimping xenos this hard, because there will still be idiots running at you who will attempt to swarm you. Now you won't even have the facehuggers to give you some breathing room, time to secure people to nests, or watch your back.
Also this PR was merged, and for whatever reason won't be possible to revert for a week because that's a rule we have apparently? So we'll definitely see some playtesting of this without actually using MSO's playtesting system.
Last edited by WJohnston on Wed Oct 07, 2015 12:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
Apparently I was an director or something.
-
- Confined to the shed
- Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2015 8:09 pm
- Byond Username: Zilenan91
Re: Ludicrously short facehugger stun times
That really got merged. What the fuck raz. Xenos are dead now.
Spoiler:
- Wyzack
- Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 11:32 pm
- Byond Username: Wyzack
Re: Ludicrously short facehugger stun times
Aint that some shit. Why the fuck would you make it so you can take the hugger off before it plants the embryo? Seriously what the fuck why?
Arthur Thomson says, "Since there are no admins I would loging with another account and kill you"
Caleb Robinson laughs.
Arthur Thomson catches fire!
certified good poster
Caleb Robinson laughs.
Arthur Thomson catches fire!
tusterman11 wrote:Can you stop lying? I just asked you and you are was a piece of shiit on me!!!
EngamerAzari's real number one fangirl <3Kor wrote:I wish Wyzack was still an admin.
certified good poster
- Scones
- Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2014 2:46 am
- Byond Username: Scones
- Location: cooler than thou
Re: Ludicrously short facehugger stun times
Removes driveby bullshit, makes xenos have to use nests
plplplplp WOOOOooo hahahhaha
-
- Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 3:29 am
- Byond Username: Amelius
Re: Ludicrously short facehugger stun times
> Nerfing a stun from by 1/20th.
Horrendous grudgecoding. How did this get merged, aliens are MEANT to be roundenders.
Horrendous grudgecoding. How did this get merged, aliens are MEANT to be roundenders.
-
- Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2014 3:16 am
- Byond Username: WJohnston
Re: Ludicrously short facehugger stun times
Scones wrote:Removes driveby bullshit, makes xenos have to use nests
why do I even write these things if you don't read themWJohnston wrote:This PR was allegedly intended to make the whole drive-by hunter/facehugger throwing less effective. Ironically it completely failed at that because hunters do not actually really even rely that much on facehugger usage, and they can just leap in its place. So right away the PR failed at its job.
Apparently I was an director or something.
- Steelpoint
- Github User
- Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 6:37 pm
- Byond Username: Steelpoint
- Github Username: Steelpoint
- Location: The Armoury
Re: Ludicrously short facehugger stun times
I would like to know if Aran had played as a Human against a Alien prior to the PR being made.
As noted above this change essentially raises the skill cap for Aliens significantly in the early game. Queen's really relied on facehuggers to jumpstart a hive as they lack the speed to chase down Humans for implantation, now this change really demands that not only the Queen be very good in combat, but also be very lucky and get idiots charging her.
Mid to late game I don't think this change makes much of a difference. Its the early game this hurts.
As noted above this change essentially raises the skill cap for Aliens significantly in the early game. Queen's really relied on facehuggers to jumpstart a hive as they lack the speed to chase down Humans for implantation, now this change really demands that not only the Queen be very good in combat, but also be very lucky and get idiots charging her.
Mid to late game I don't think this change makes much of a difference. Its the early game this hurts.
-
- Confined to the shed
- Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2015 8:09 pm
- Byond Username: Zilenan91
Re: Ludicrously short facehugger stun times
I don't expect this to happen, but it would be nice if we could void the one week revert rule for this case due to it being merged without the majority consent of coderbus and the playerbase.
Spoiler:
-
- Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2014 2:49 am
- Byond Username: Whodaloo
Re: Ludicrously short facehugger stun times
this is good, actually
now queens can't just drop facehuggers in maint and receive babbies, now they have to go find braindeads or actually robust someone
nice job aran
now queens can't just drop facehuggers in maint and receive babbies, now they have to go find braindeads or actually robust someone
nice job aran
i love public logs
Spoiler:
- Scones
- Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2014 2:46 am
- Byond Username: Scones
- Location: cooler than thou
Re: Ludicrously short facehugger stun times
yeah wjohn but i don't agree with you
perma-observing doesn't give you a great feel of how things work but hey this is your fetish content so who am i to speak on it
perma-observing doesn't give you a great feel of how things work but hey this is your fetish content so who am i to speak on it
plplplplp WOOOOooo hahahhaha
-
- Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2014 3:16 am
- Byond Username: WJohnston
Re: Ludicrously short facehugger stun times
Scones I play xenos constantly, that's the one thing I don't jump away from.
Apparently I was an director or something.
- PKPenguin321
- Site Admin
- Joined: Tue Jul 01, 2014 7:02 pm
- Byond Username: PKPenguin321
- Github Username: PKPenguin321
- Location: U S A, U S A, U S A
Re: Ludicrously short facehugger stun times
part of a driveby is getting awayWJohnston wrote:Scones wrote:Removes driveby bullshit, makes xenos have to use nestswhy do I even write these things if you don't read themWJohnston wrote:This PR was allegedly intended to make the whole drive-by hunter/facehugger throwing less effective. Ironically it completely failed at that because hunters do not actually really even rely that much on facehugger usage, and they can just leap in its place. So right away the PR failed at its job.
when you leap, you move your entire body to the target
with facehuggers you barely had to glance at the target before it goes down and you're home free
anyways i'm okay with this change, it shouldnt change how xenos are played at all except that xenos will have to disarm somebody a single time when a facehugger gets on them
i play Lauser McMauligan. clown name is Cold-Ass Honkey
i have three other top secret characters as well.
tell the best admin how good he is
i have three other top secret characters as well.
tell the best admin how good he is
Spoiler:
-
- Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2014 3:16 am
- Byond Username: WJohnston
Re: Ludicrously short facehugger stun times
You realize that hunters are sanic, right? They can EASILY get out of trouble after leaping. I also pointed out several times that while this doesn't affect late game stuff like hunters prowling around (they can just leap on people instead), it DOES majorly affect early game defense because your wall of facehuggers is no longer able to protect you at all. This means you can just run in completely unprotected and not care, and is going to mean that swarming a starting xeno hive is going to be a totally valid tactic (which is super shitty because that sucked with nuke ops in the past).
Apparently I was an director or something.
-
- TGMC Administrator
- Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2014 4:40 am
- Byond Username: Lumipharon
Re: Ludicrously short facehugger stun times
enjoy never getting victims as a queen unless you can find monkeys, or people line up for your spit.
-
- Confined to the shed
- Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2015 8:09 pm
- Byond Username: Zilenan91
Re: Ludicrously short facehugger stun times
>stun somebody as Xeno
>slap a hugger on
>start dragging
>concentration wavers for .1 seconds
>he rips the hugger off and you're left with a dead hugger, your dick in the dirt, and him not implanted
Whyyyyyyyyy
>slap a hugger on
>start dragging
>concentration wavers for .1 seconds
>he rips the hugger off and you're left with a dead hugger, your dick in the dirt, and him not implanted
Whyyyyyyyyy
Spoiler:
- TechnoAlchemist
- Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2014 2:39 am
- Byond Username: TechnoAlchemist
Re: Ludicrously short facehugger stun times
Although it has little effect on late game Xenos this severely crippled early game hive play. Not to mention you can completely negate this effect with a wide array of head equipment. If you're walking into a nest without headgear you deserve death.
- Shaps-cloud
- Code Maintainer
- Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2014 4:25 am
- Byond Username: Shaps
Re: Ludicrously short facehugger stun times
wait... so there's a threat that I can't just walk up to with a fireaxe and beat to death? I'd actually need to... strategize? And work with other people?
nah lmao remove that shit too complex
nah lmao remove that shit too complex
-
- Joined: Sat Sep 26, 2015 7:53 am
- Byond Username: Tuypo1
- Location: the wardens office bitching about armory layouts
Re: Ludicrously short facehugger stun times
being able to wade in with a fireaxe and kill all the xenos is exactly the problem here.
-
- Joined: Fri May 02, 2014 3:01 am
- Byond Username: Incomptinence
Re: Ludicrously short facehugger stun times
Why leave the stun in at all when you are this salty it isn't like the aliens can pick up and move the gear you drop in 1 bloody game tick.
- Not-Dorsidarf
- Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 4:14 pm
- Byond Username: Dorsidwarf
- Location: We're all going on an, admin holiday
Re: Ludicrously short facehugger stun times
When I closed my dead broken PR and wrote "Closed to prevent yolomerge by raz", I didn't realise he'd get frustrated and merge something else instyead
kieth4 wrote: infrequently shitting yourself is fine imo
There is a lot of very bizarre nonsense being talked on this forum. I shall now remain silent and logoff until my points are vindicated.
Player who complainted over being killed for looting cap office wrote: ↑Sun Jul 30, 2023 1:33 am Hey there, I'm Virescent, the super evil person who made the stupid appeal and didn't think it through enough. Just came here to say: screech, retards. Screech and writhe like the worms you are. Your pathetic little cries will keep echoing around for a while before quietting down. There is one great outcome from this: I rised up the blood pressure of some of you shitheads and lowered your lifespan. I'm honestly tempted to do this more often just to see you screech and writhe more, but that wouldn't be cool of me. So come on haters, show me some more of your high blood pressure please.
- Remie Richards
- Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 7:11 pm
- Byond Username: CrimsonVision
- Location: England, UK, Earth, Sol, Milky Way, Local Group, Virgo Supercluster, Known Universe
- Contact:
Re: Ludicrously short facehugger stun times
Don't worry guys, none of it will matter when I make facehuggers playable (I'm busy on the last few % of HoG, but soon!)
私は完璧
- Aloraydrel
- Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2015 4:14 pm
- Byond Username: Aloraydrel
- Github Username: Aloraydrel
Re: Ludicrously short facehugger stun times
If you don't want to get driveby by a xeno just wear a biohood or full face protection. Change is pretty stupid
- bandit
- Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 7:35 pm
- Byond Username: Bgobandit
Re: Ludicrously short facehugger stun times
I'm just going to sidestep the whole "how bad a change is this" discussion and highlight this, because the monkey thing is absolutely going to become the new meta, even more than it was before. (Or corgis, I'm pretty sure you can still facehug them.)lumipharon wrote:enjoy never getting victims as a queen unless you can find monkeys, or people line up for your spit.
-
- Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2014 3:16 am
- Byond Username: WJohnston
Re: Ludicrously short facehugger stun times
That's the problem though, attacking genetics or viro is borderline suicide even WITH long-lasting stuns on facehuggers, because it'll take about 10 minutes to even GET those. You'll be dead long before that can happen unless the crew is disgustingly bad.
Apparently I was an director or something.
- Xhagi
- Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2015 2:45 am
- Byond Username: Aliannera
- Location: Cat Place
Re: Ludicrously short facehugger stun times
plz revert fam this nerf is smh
But yea, this is just dumb. I feel no reason to repeat the reasons already given in this thread. Should not have been merged due to massive player opposition, and should be reverted back out.
But yea, this is just dumb. I feel no reason to repeat the reasons already given in this thread. Should not have been merged due to massive player opposition, and should be reverted back out.
Professional Catgirl and Gayboy Supreme.
-
- Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2014 2:48 pm
- Byond Username: Absalom526
Re: Ludicrously short facehugger stun times
Yeah this is just awful, please revert before it's too late.
>facehugger is still consumed even if they just rip it off
>facehugger is still consumed even if they just rip it off
- tedward1337
- Joined: Thu May 15, 2014 12:54 am
- Byond Username: Tedward1337
- Location: Ontario, Canada
Re: Ludicrously short facehugger stun times
Quit nerfing things that are made to be round ending for fucks sake.
Major T on Steam/IRC/Twitch/everything else.
Game Admin
PM anytime with questions about the server, policies or for fun!
Spoiler:
-
- Joined: Sat Sep 26, 2015 7:53 am
- Byond Username: Tuypo1
- Location: the wardens office bitching about armory layouts
Re: Ludicrously short facehugger stun times
also misterperson stop deleting posts without explaining what was in it in an issue with as much rage as this it looks suspicious as fuck.
- Not-Dorsidarf
- Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 4:14 pm
- Byond Username: Dorsidwarf
- Location: We're all going on an, admin holiday
Re: Ludicrously short facehugger stun times
kieth4 wrote: infrequently shitting yourself is fine imo
There is a lot of very bizarre nonsense being talked on this forum. I shall now remain silent and logoff until my points are vindicated.
Player who complainted over being killed for looting cap office wrote: ↑Sun Jul 30, 2023 1:33 am Hey there, I'm Virescent, the super evil person who made the stupid appeal and didn't think it through enough. Just came here to say: screech, retards. Screech and writhe like the worms you are. Your pathetic little cries will keep echoing around for a while before quietting down. There is one great outcome from this: I rised up the blood pressure of some of you shitheads and lowered your lifespan. I'm honestly tempted to do this more often just to see you screech and writhe more, but that wouldn't be cool of me. So come on haters, show me some more of your high blood pressure please.
- Saegrimr
- Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2014 4:39 pm
- Byond Username: Saegrimr
Re: Ludicrously short facehugger stun times
tedward1337 wrote:Sae is like the racist grandad who everyone laughs at for being racist, but deep down we all know he's right.
- DrPillzRedux
- Rarely plays
- Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2014 9:45 am
- Byond Username: DrPillzRedux
Re: Ludicrously short facehugger stun times
Why are you trying to balance a game ender?
Last edited by MisterPerson on Fri Oct 09, 2015 12:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Removed stuff directed @aranclanos
Reason: Removed stuff directed @aranclanos
thot_slayer wrote:don't be a degenerate online if you don't want people to treat you like a degenerate morty
bandit wrote:what is this
a correct post by pillz
- MisterPerson
- Board Moderator
- Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 4:26 pm
- Byond Username: MisterPerson
Re: Ludicrously short facehugger stun times
Mostly people calling for aran's head without talking about the code change or why it's bad. Which is of course off topic, this is about the facehugger stun times, not how they were merged. If you have a problem with the behavior of a maintainer, I strongly encourage you or anyone else to take it straight to the current headcoder(s), which is right now just Cheridan.tuypo1 wrote:also misterperson stop deleting posts without explaining what was in it in an issue with as much rage as this it looks suspicious as fuck.
Personal insults are not welcome here. Period.
I code for the code project and moderate the code sections of the forums.
Feedback is dumb and it doesn't matter
Feedback is dumb and it doesn't matter
- PKPenguin321
- Site Admin
- Joined: Tue Jul 01, 2014 7:02 pm
- Byond Username: PKPenguin321
- Github Username: PKPenguin321
- Location: U S A, U S A, U S A
Re: Ludicrously short facehugger stun times
we need to determine once and for all if we want xenos to be a round ender or not because a lot of people think they aren't for some reasonDrPillzRedux wrote:Why are you trying to balance a game ender?
i play Lauser McMauligan. clown name is Cold-Ass Honkey
i have three other top secret characters as well.
tell the best admin how good he is
i have three other top secret characters as well.
tell the best admin how good he is
Spoiler:
- Wyzack
- Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 11:32 pm
- Byond Username: Wyzack
Re: Ludicrously short facehugger stun times
but those people dont get it
Arthur Thomson says, "Since there are no admins I would loging with another account and kill you"
Caleb Robinson laughs.
Arthur Thomson catches fire!
certified good poster
Caleb Robinson laughs.
Arthur Thomson catches fire!
tusterman11 wrote:Can you stop lying? I just asked you and you are was a piece of shiit on me!!!
EngamerAzari's real number one fangirl <3Kor wrote:I wish Wyzack was still an admin.
certified good poster
- Saegrimr
- Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2014 4:39 pm
- Byond Username: Saegrimr
Re: Ludicrously short facehugger stun times
tedward1337 wrote:Sae is like the racist grandad who everyone laughs at for being racist, but deep down we all know he's right.
- CPTANT
- Joined: Mon May 04, 2015 1:31 pm
- Byond Username: CPTANT
Re: Ludicrously short facehugger stun times
Can people please just accept nobody likes the facehugger nerf and move on?Saegrimr wrote:I don't understand what is happening anymore
https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/12269
Timberpoes wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:21 pm The rules exist to create the biggest possible chance of a cool shift of SS13. They don't exist to allow admins to create the most boring interpretation of SS13.
- EndgamerAzari
- Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2014 3:59 am
- Byond Username: EndgamerAzari
- Location: Being violently sucked into a hole in the sky.
Re: Ludicrously short facehugger stun times
Shouldn't there be some sort of oversight for this sort of thing
Spoiler:
-
- Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2014 3:16 am
- Byond Username: WJohnston
Re: Ludicrously short facehugger stun times
Well it looks like this change is finally over, having apparently become a meme for its duration except nobody wanted it. At least we're back to old facehugger stun mechanics.
VICTORY.
VICTORY.
Apparently I was an director or something.
- PKPenguin321
- Site Admin
- Joined: Tue Jul 01, 2014 7:02 pm
- Byond Username: PKPenguin321
- Github Username: PKPenguin321
- Location: U S A, U S A, U S A
Re: Ludicrously short facehugger stun times
literally nothing changed, we did it diggWJohnston wrote:Well it looks like this change is finally over, having apparently become a meme for its duration except nobody wanted it. At least we're back to old facehugger stun mechanics.
VICTORY.
i play Lauser McMauligan. clown name is Cold-Ass Honkey
i have three other top secret characters as well.
tell the best admin how good he is
i have three other top secret characters as well.
tell the best admin how good he is
Spoiler:
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users