Mining balancing feedback thread

[bandit]

https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/13102

feedback goes here

suggestions for new gear also go here

[Gun Hog]

Could KA upgrades or auto-scanning mesons be provided by Science for a lesser price than the top-line gear; Perhaps costing no more than silver or gold (both of which can be found on the station in small amounts)? It could work as something for mid-round miners or such.

[bandit]

sure, I can add that, I just don't ever play R&D (I just mine) so I'd need suggestions as to amounts

[AnonymousNow]

- SS13 is a plasma research and supply station; retrieving plasma for mucho points is thematically appropriate.
- It is also thematically appropriate to have gold be more valuable than silver, something like 21-16.
- Random ores make mining a crapshoot for the unlucky.
- I was rather hoping to see rebalanced PKA upgrading, rather than just another PKA at the far end of the points line.

[Zilenan91]

I wouldn't mind if we could insert Bluespace crystals from mining into our KAs to upgrade them instead. Those things are really damn rare, to be honest. I haven't seen one in a really long time.

[lumipharon]

Plasma only exists in this pocket of space - just because it's common here doesn't mean it's not astronomically more valuable then shit that is common in the grand scheme of things, like gold and diamond.

[Super Aggro Crag]

i love it

[bandit]

bump, note I added a lot more changes including MECH MESONS

[Zellion]

>kinetic accelerator upgrades
God bless

[bandit]

This is in the game now, bitching goes here

[lumipharon]

Didn't we remove super powered KA's precisely because they were ludicrously good and let you basically delete the entire asteroid in 30 minutes?
Also combining this with the already brokenly overpowered ore machine, ayyy.

[PKPenguin321]

hah, yeah i remember old KAs, screwdriver three times and drop in some plasma sheets and badaboom, endgame-tier mining tool
this seems way more gated behind mining points though, and before you say "le upgraded ore machine," if you can actually get mining and science to cooperate early enough into the round that it's not considered the endgame, maybe you deserve your super powerful mining tool

[Incomptinence]

Kinetic accelerator is a little railgunesque massdrivery slingshotty thing right? Maybe it can fire special ammo pips instead of dirt as an alternative to permanent upgrades. Diamond needles that pierce through people or embed anyone?

[Alex Crimson]

Why are these upgrades even needed? Last i checked, Mining was super easy and R&D required VERY little ore to get to the endgame stuff. That was before Goofball added those crazy T4 parts, which made R&D require even less.

[Helios]

Why are these upgrades even needed? Last i checked, Mining was super easy and R&D required VERY little ore to get to the endgame stuff. That was before Goofball added those crazy T4 parts, which made R&D require even less.

Because R&D gets cool stuff and then mining gets stuff that helps them mine better, but then mining doesn't need to mine for anything because R&D already has everything they need.

[bandit]

Increasing required mats is probably going to cause way more drama than it's worth (especially because I don't play R&D, I only mine), but more shit that uses mats in general is always cool. I just have no fucking clue what they'd even be.

[TheNightingale]

Increasing the tech requirements for a particular item will make the RDs cry tears of bitter despair.
Increasing the material requirements (e.g. from 200 to 400 diamond) would be okay.
Increasing the different types of materials required (e.g. from gold to gold and uranium) would... also be okay, I guess.

Typically, it goes like this:
R&D does low-level research (T2).
Mining returns with a few minerals.
R&D does mid-level research (T3) and upgrades the ore machine, then collects the minerals.
Mining returns with enough minerals to last a while, multiplied by three because of the ore machine.
Mining waits around for a little while, then gets upgraded equipment (diamond drill, NVMesons).
R&D does high-level research (T4+) and upgrades the ore machine again.
Mining returns with enough minerals to last the rest of the shift, multiplied by four.
R&D makes sonic jackhammers, bags of holding, laser cannons, SABRs, et cetera.

When the ore machine is upgraded to T3, even an early load of minerals will last quite a while (unless you're giving out BoHs and laser cannons).
When the ore machine is upgraded to T4 and Mining brings back an average load, R&D and Robotics are set for the whole shift.
When the ore machine is upgraded to T4 and Mining brings back a big load (with endgame equipment like NVMesons/jackhammer/satchel of holding), you can diamond-plate the Cargo Bay and still have stacks to spare.

[Anonmare]

There really needs to be an incentive for other departments to want mining materials. Chemists and bartenders will usually want a little bit of uranium and/or plasma for their concoctions but none of the other departments really have a need or desire for materials.
You could let engineering use a portion of materials to upgrade some of their equipment's hardware better, like plasma sheets in APCs to make them more EMP-resistant or Uranium to make a machine more power efficient. For another example, Sec could use diamond to harden their glass windows or Uranium to create a more torturous execution chamber Escape deterrent.

Hell, you could make a glass/plasma alloy to make fire-resistant glass or glass/uranium to make radiation resistant glass if you really wanted, throw the other departments a bone basically and constructions with unique properties might give engineers something to do in those long rounds.

[Saegrimr]

Gold capped reception coils for the tesla engine.

Tesla is totally happening guys, I hope.

[Gun Hog]

There really needs to be an incentive for other departments to want mining materials. Chemists and bartenders will usually want a little bit of uranium and/or plasma for their concoctions but none of the other departments really have a need or desire for materials.
You could let engineering use a portion of materials to upgrade some of their equipment's hardware better, like plasma sheets in APCs to make them more EMP-resistant or Uranium to make a machine more power efficient. For another example, Sec could use diamond to harden their glass windows or Uranium to create a more torturous execution chamber Escape deterrent.

Hell, you could make a glass/plasma alloy to make fire-resistant glass or glass/uranium to make radiation resistant glass if you really wanted, throw the other departments a bone basically and constructions with unique properties might give engineers something to do in those long rounds.

The only change here I find worth supporting. So much of the feedback is just cries of "NERF!". Plasma glass actually was a thing in NTstation for a bit, and was literally the first PR to that codebranch.

Other departments having desire for turning their areas into SWAG for gameplay reasons could be interesting, things that have gameplay benefits.

I fear that this will result in resource fights between departments, as each major one will try to soak up everything the ORE machine has (This is /tg/ community, no one here knows how to share or even accept gifts!), leaving everyone else high and dry. That is not such a horrible state, though...I would rather have this situation than an arbitrary hardmode conversion others may be considering. Conflict is the fuel of the game, after all. It does not have to only come from antagonists!

EDIT: Science could benefit from an easy way of sharing things with people. NV Mesons and Exp welding tools for Engineers, guns for Sec, the mop and scrubber items for the Janitor, the plant gun for Botanists, etc. So much potential is lost on a lack of sufficient communication and laziness!

[DemonFiren]

If resource distribution becomes a thing, silver tiles should totally limit infection spread.

[Zilenan91]

Ehh, perhaps making departments require more minerals is a bad thing. I once spent 30 minutes mining as a miner, and the second I got back a chemist took every single piece of mineral for himself into chemistry, and then ground them all down into liquid so only he could use them.

I'm pretty sure he doesn't play here anymore.

[Gun Hog]

Ehh, perhaps making departments require more minerals is a bad thing. I once spent 30 minutes mining as a miner, and the second I got back a chemist took every single piece of mineral for himself into chemistry, and then ground them all down into liquid so only he could use them.

I'm pretty sure he doesn't play here anymore.

Again, I would much prefer this to a nerf. It adds fun and depth to the game instead of 'lol skrew u! U no get toys cuz i dont lik it wen u hab fun'. There will be jerks, of course. It gives Security something to do other than hunting for valids. All Sec can do now is hunt valids because the greytide has been largely stamped out

[Zilenan91]

Speaking of grey tide, I hope Pillz finishes his segrestation map. The way it's designed should hopefully cause some sort of conflict from classism and the grey hordes attempting to get on the rich side of town.

[J_Madison]

hivelord kit doesn't work has no sprites.