PR to revert newcult, spice up oldcult

[Oldman Robustin]

Bottom post of the previous page:

I understand now, been meaning to put up a PR for nerfing the RD's armor... now it's going to be:

Experimentor REVAMP!

-Tons of useless changes that will be difficult to read through
- Stuffed in the middle: Revert: RD's TRA has been reverted to a prior state to compensate for these improvements to science.
- Wewlads

[InsaneHyena]

Experimentor REVAMP!

Honestly, that won't be too bad. I'm not even sure what experimentor does and how it does it.

[PKPenguin321]

Experimentor REVAMP!

Honestly, that won't be too bad. I'm not even sure what experimentor does and how it does it.

hahahaha oldman's whole point is that if he wrote revamp nobody would acknowledge the changes and here you are just pointing out the title and saying how great of a change it is
oldman you absolute evil genius madman

[InsaneHyena]

hahahaha oldman's whole point is that if he wrote revamp nobody would acknowledge the changes and here you are just pointing out the title and saying how great of a change it is
oldman you absolute evil genius madman

I have no clue what you've just said or what did you mean by it.

[Oldman Robustin]

> Coderbus encourages people to participate in Github, install Git, get invested in the process, learn BYOND code

> Closes the PR so headcoder & friends can drag you into IRC to lecture you about the one time they played cult and didn't like stunpaper and think it should be replaced with 1-shot convert paper.

> Turns your first PR into a slow-motion hell despite having more overwhelming support than any big balance change since ever. One won't merge it because it undoes his precious newcult.

There needs to be a better way to this. Every time I try to do a significant PR, I lose all energy and motivation to try it again for months.

[ShadowDimentio]

> Closes the PR so headcoder & friends can drag you into IRC to lecture you about the one time they played cult and didn't like stunpaper and think it should be replaced with 1-shot convert paper.

>They want to turn cult into literally every other convert mode

Golly! Our coders sure are swell folk.

Don't lose heart Oldman. You're our only hope!

(Also send me the convo I want to laugh)

[InsaneHyena]

Coders, listen to me. Newcult is a piece of shit. No one, NO ONE except Zilenan likes it. NO ONE.

[DemonFiren]

Coders, listen to me. Newcult is a piece of shit. No one, NO ONE except Zilenan likes it. NO ONE.

Yeah, but being a coder plus being a salty faggot equals disregarding the good of the many because you got cucked by stunpaper once.

[Steelpoint]

I expected nothing less for coderbus.

[onleavedontatme]

https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pulse

77 pull requests have been merged this week, with 80,403 additions and 12,609 deletions (granted a lot of those line changes are from maps, but still 77 PRs).

There are only a handful of us DOING IT FOR FREE, and I reviewed your stuff to the best of my ability within a couple days. It's a hobby, not a job. If you want it to go faster, learn to code and help maintain things.

[Oldman Robustin]

Sorry Kor, I do appreciate the effort from our coders.

If I felt like the delay was due to time constraints and natural limitations I wouldn't have opened my mouth. But after TKR's little "hey I'm not going to merge this" speech and my experience with Cher/Joan closing the PR and dragging me into IRC for some memes, I felt like this was one of those things that could sit on the back burner for weeks longer due to coderbus politics.

On another note:

ITS MERGED!

I'd like to hear about:

1) The longer nar-sie rune drawing process (I intend to improve it soon)

2) The nerfed stun talisman and the addition of "cultslurring" (I literally just shot from the hip with cultslur, I see a lot of room for improvement)

3) Any other issues/improvement that could be made.

My intuition says that this is pretty much a straight-nerfed oldcult to appease the talisman whiners, so I would expect this cult to feel a little weak. But only time will tell if cultslur and a few other improvement make up for it.

[Incomptinence]

Nerfed oldcult might be a little weak yeah.

Tweaking should be in the more toys form and not making them rev level simple though so thanks for doing this.

[Oldman Robustin]

>Oldcult merged but not updated yet

>Newcult round

>3/4 newcultists immediately ask to be replaced

>They become xenos

Yea, newcult is/was THAT bad.

[Luke Cox]

Played a cult round last night. Specialized runes and no conversion is shit. Those are what made newcult so god awful

[Oldman Robustin]

Had our first round this afternoon.

1) Everyone was used to newcult's free hivemind. So the cultists immediately start slitting their wrists and using emergency communications, atmos tech nearly bleeds out with 80 brute damage just from talking. A doctor and officer are dispatched to find out what was happening to him and see him in maint covered in blood holding a talisman and promptly arrest him.

2) Lizard miner cult mines all shift. Finds a soulstone belt and shell in the mines, leaves the belt on the floor and drags the shell from mining to science. Gets arrested at science entrance.

3) I dont even know what happened to cultist #3

4) RD was cultist #4, made some constructs with a bizarre stunprod + EMP combo. Unfortunately that method is super obvious and sec was swarming science soon, his constructs busted out of maint to make a room right next to the station and after a couple idiots got killed, they were overwhelmed and destroyed (along with the RD at some point).


Oldcults back baby! Seriously though, even for competent players it will be tough to win. I might improve scaling soon since the new nar-sie rune and 35 population minimum should make it harder to rush nar-sie.

[Luke Cox]

Alright, so the abortion I played was newcult. It already looked bad on paper but holy fuck it is cancer in practice.

[Steelpoint]

I don't mind a round that presses the antagonists to win.

But it needs to be fair, that the antagonists can win through skill (hah) and a spinkle of luck, not via factors outside of their control (population, starting members, etc).

I think Oldcult is a good step forward for Cult in general, but we have a way to go. At least now I can personally turn Cult back on as a antag option.

[Incomptinence]

Yeah newcult never really caught on even if you say shovelled say 10 golems into the sacrifice rune no one seemed to get it was a defensive mode and to stay around to protect nar nar.

[Oldman Robustin]

Tested cultslur.

Good News: Its hilariously effective. 95% of what anyone says will be illegible. Its a little more balanced though because anyone screaming with a cultslur will immediately tip off the crew that the victim has been taken by the cult and give the AI/med/command a chance to at least check suit sensors to find out where they might be. Still a small chance the text will come through legible enough for someone to make out what was being said. Also for something I threw together just randomly messing with probabilities and code I didn't understand, it actually comes out as something pretty Lovecraftian.

Bad News: A little better than I had designed. Was hoping a careful reading could make out a good portion of any radio message.


I'll leave it like this for a while since I don't want to nerf cult any more, but we'll see what everyone thinks.

[Davidchan]

I wonder, would it be possible (or even balanced) if cultslur changed the persons voice to unknown for a few seconds? It would still be possible to try and call for help but a good chance that who ever is screaming for help wouldn't be identifiable by voice recognition alone?

[Steelpoint]

If you made the voice unidentifiable then it would be a 100% clear cut case of a cult for anyone listening to the radio.

At least making it slurred gives some change the crew may not get tipped off that the person is a victim of a cult attack, leaves a little room for doubt to what's going on.

[Helios]

Unless we go back to buffing acid to melting people's faces off So they sound unknown over the radio and when examined.

[Drynwyn]

Cults could probably use a method of dealing with the shuttlecall- maybe a 3-person rune to recall the shuttle, call it "teleport station". One of the most common issues with the old days of cult was that as soon as there was a confirmed cult the shuttle woudl get called, and the cult would have no time to complete objectives.

[Malkevin]

People calling the shuttle for toe stubs is a player problem.

Forcing people to stay with shuttle ping pong just ends up with a bunch of salty whining people that don't push the round forward.

[Dawgas]

One of the most common issues with the old days of cult was that as soon as there was a confirmed cult the shuttle woudl get called, and the cult would have no time to complete objectives.

Which is because cult then, like now, was shit, and there never was a point where cult wasn't a shitty game mode. Being a shitty version of rev or nuke with magic powers doesn't change that. And considering how ultimately, people don't like being steamrolled in minutes, unless they're the ones doing it, of course.

Its the same kind of argument I could make against people who say they shouldn't call the shuttle even though the singularity's cut the station into multiple pieces, because they can fix it in a few hours. It doesn't change the fact that it isn't fun, and that it isn't popular.

Cult is still a shitty forced meme, and if anyone back then knew what they were doing a half decade ago, we wouldn't have as many long term problems to deal with, both with the code and the community.

... but that's just been my opinion for about that long.

[PKPenguin321]

One of the most common issues with the old days of cult was that as soon as there was a confirmed cult the shuttle woudl get called, and the cult would have no time to complete objectives.

instead of addressing this post that i have quoted, i will now sperg about how i do not like cult.

[Zilenan91]

Sec in particular calls the shuttle because it's more fun leaving than it is actually fighting the cult because it's just not fun dealing with a cult. Deconversion takes several minutes, during which if they get away at any time, all they need to do to stop said deconversion is to be slapped with a tome, it requires the chaplain being alive to make holy water, and also relies on none of you ever going alone ever which means that you're basically destined to eventually be ground down. So you call the shuttle and it's more fun to leave and not have to deal with shit than stick around and slowly get ground down.

This cult while likely a slightly better version of it still has the problems it used to have.

[Steelpoint]

Cult's more bearable since now you have more free will to just execute cultists, but that's still a waste of a human resource.

[oranges]

bring back free hivemind oldman you madman

[ShadowDimentio]

I concur. Hivemind made everything more fun and differentiated cult from the other conversion gamemodes.