Peacekeeper Borgs

[PKPenguin321]

Bottom post of the previous page:

Ugh not this catch 22 shit.

OH I SAW THE BORG FAIL TO STOP SEC KILLING REMOVE IT!
THE BORG TRIED TO STOP ME KILLING AS AN OFFICER REMOVE IT!

both of those arguments come from different perspectives, not the same person. saying that they do is (say it with me) s t r a w m a n

[PKPenguin321]

but when both arguments come from two different perspectives, it's hard to say they're conflicting in the same way that they would be if they were from the same person. their perspectives are both different, they just happen to arrive at the same conclusion, that being that the borg was at fault.

[Sidon]

The biggest critic of the PK borgs has PK in his name it's a conspiracy

[yackemflam]

Here`s the problem with PK borgs.

It`s sec borg 2.0.
It`s too weak
If it get too strong, then we`re back with the sec borg problem
Sec doesn`t like getting cockblocked
The public don`t like borgs turning a blind eye on them.
Antags REALLY hate silicons
Silicons don`t like being a NEUTRAL THRID PARTY GOD DAMN IT HOW HARD IS IT TO DO THAT

GOD DAMN PEOPLE JUST STOP BEING COMPLETE SHITS.

[DrPillzRedux]

I actually didn't have a problem with PK borgs as an antag myself. There were 6 of them that round too. They really can't do much except cry about harm.

[Luke Cox]

Their main area of expertise is disruption. They distract and hinder, but they can't do a whole lot if somebody comes at them determined to kill them. The "they're too weak" criticisms are the most valid in my opinion. The "secborg 2.0 REEEEE" doomsday scenarios have not materialized once during testing to my knowledge.

@yackemflam: Silicon policy has huge issues that won't be fixed or worsened by adding this. I agree that it's a major problem at this point.

[dionysus24779]

In my second round of being a Peacekeeper I saw an antag drag someone who was in crit into maintenance while continuing to hit him, I rolled after him, managed to snatched the body away and escaped, when the antag gave chase I shot him with a bola and dragged the critted person into medbay.

Which lead to someone instantly being very salty about PK borgs in OOC and how they should be removed...

This is kind of the level of irrationality we sometimes have, when being able to pull something is already too much...

[Zilenan91]

>someone got mad that their round was ended by something they had literally zero hope of ever overcoming or defeating

Jee I wonder why they don't like these things. Clearly the antag is a salty baby who doesn't know nuffin.

[Remie Richards]

they had literally zero hope of ever overcoming or defeating

Gee, and here I was thinking antags had access to gear capable of easily flooring robots and people alike.

[Zilenan91]

So what you're saying is that antags are 100% required to hold the counter to borgs AT ALL TIMES because of the fact that one can zoom in and instantly fuck them if they don't have it

This is objectively terrible design, and also means that they don't have as much freedom to buy other things that they want to use.

[Remie Richards]

No, I'm saying maybe they shouldn't burn all of their TC immediately praying that they won't be countered.
If they hold on to some TC and then they're cucked by a borg, they can cuck them right back.

You know, maybe do a little tiny bit of Strategy 101, instead of being "Hurr I like this item *spends 20TC on balloon*"

[Luke Cox]

So what you're saying is that antags are 100% required to hold the counter to borgs AT ALL TIMES because of the fact that one can zoom in and instantly fuck them if they don't have it

This is objectively terrible design, and also means that they don't have as much freedom to buy other things that they want to use.

If you don't bother to use of of the many counters of silicons, you don't deserve greentext. Let's remove tasers, since not everybody buys adrenals! You are grasping at straws now.

[Zilenan91]

>won't be countered

So you're saying that because borgs are the way they are, the game devolves into both sides instantly fucking each other with no in between, and that this is a good thing.

Hell, with regular humans, even sec officers, you can at least have some hope by hitting them with your esword. You can get lucky and maybe knock them down, or the damage slows them down enough that you can catch up and kill them. With borgs, you can't do this, it doesn't matter how many times you hit them because they'll be running away at the same speed forever, and with peacekeeper borgs, going faster than you due to bolas. So this means you have literally zero fucking chance of ever coming out on top in that engagement without playing into shitty hard counters. It's at this point why not just start Traitors with an EMP grenade because they're required to have them if they don't want their round to instantly end.

[Luke Cox]

>won't be countered

So you're saying that because borgs are the way they are, the game devolves into both sides instantly fucking each other with no in between, and that this is a good thing.

Hell, with regular humans, even sec officers, you can at least have some hope by hitting them with your esword. You can get lucky and maybe knock them down, or the damage slows them down enough that you can catch up and kill them. With borgs, you can't do this, it doesn't matter how many times you hit them because they'll be running away at the same speed forever, and with peacekeeper borgs, going faster than you due to bolas. So this means you have literally zero fucking chance of ever coming out on top in that engagement without playing into shitty hard counters. It's at this point why not just start Traitors with an EMP grenade because they're required to have them if they don't want their round to instantly end.

Eye protection and a crowbar. RIP borgie

[Zilenan91]

Are you talking about flashbangs? Those require ear protection too. Also as far as I know EMPs don't unlock borg covers so you'll need robotics/all access to deconstruct it.

Also if I'm not wrong, EMPing a borg with an EMP grenade is only enough time to kill it if you're using a spear. Anything less and it will survive and continue running at full speed.

[WarbossLincoln]

>someone got mad that their round was ended by something they had literally zero hope of ever overcoming or defeating

Jee I wonder why they don't like these things. Clearly the antag is a salty baby who doesn't know nuffin.

An assistant could have done the exact same thing.

[Screemonster]

Literally anyone or anything could have run in and grabbed his victim and taken him to medbay.

A sentient corgi could pull it off. REMOVE CORGIS UNBALANCED I LOST PLS REMOVE

[The Ultimate Chimera]

It seems they got removed, never got a chance to try it out. Meh...

[Incomptinence]

The lesson here is blobernauts are obviously the only balanced mob because they can't pull.

Replace humans with blobernauts when?

[Luke Cox]

It seems they got removed, never got a chance to try it out. Meh...

It was just a test merge. Mekhi is working out some bugs.

[Ezel]

I dont trust mekhi make goofball take watch

[Luke Cox]

I dont trust mekhi make goofball take watch

Get out

[Anonmare]

I like PK borgs, I think they should have gotten a more thorough shake even if the hacked modules could have used some toning back. I still think it's more of a riot control borg than a secborg. Which is fine in my opinion, it filled a niche I didn't even know existed.

Also the salt from this thread is so real I can pour it on my chips.

[Luke Cox]

Not sure how far along Mekhi is on those bugfixes, but once he's done it'll get another test merge, and then probably a final merge.

[PKPenguin321]

So what you're saying is that antags are 100% required to hold the counter to borgs AT ALL TIMES because of the fact that one can zoom in and instantly fuck them if they don't have it

This is objectively terrible design, and also means that they don't have as much freedom to buy other things that they want to use.

If you don't bother to use of of the many counters of silicons, you don't deserve greentext. Let's remove tasers, since not everybody buys adrenals! You are grasping at straws now.

If you don't bother to use of of the many counters of silicons,

If you don't bother to use of of the many counters of silicons,

many counters of silicons,

many counters of silicons

many counters of silicons

i want to die

[Cik]

there are many counters

also mekhi can you add a follow link to the "borgname has used peacekeeping harm alarm" text that pops up for the AI?

i'd like to jump there and mediate but it takes longer than i'd like sometimes thx

[Armhulen]

there are many counters

also mekhi can you add a follow link to the "borgname has used peacekeeping harm alarm" text that pops up for the AI?

i'd like to jump there and mediate but it takes longer than i'd like sometimes thx

Like????
Look I like the new Borg but even I think they don't got a huge amount of counters

[Incomptinence]

Just kill it? I mean a revolver can lay waste to both borgs and assassination targets same for many traitorous murder weapons? Leaving what the poison kit and the ebow as ineffective? Swapping for the emp kit wrecking them and maybe making them your bitch slave with the emag if you can stun them? Like oh big whoop I can't even remember seeing the ebow used since it was nerfed honestly the occasional brain dead officer who tries to tase stun proof enemies of any sort in the face then cries has more of a grievance.

Since this will just degenerate into TERRAIN MY ONE WEAKNESS since penguin never seems able to cope with going around or through a bolted door and constantly thinks the sec team is arranging *snort* extremely professional coordinated raids on his precise location constantly, I honestly chide myself to replying to his bad faith low grade posts at all.

[Cheridan]

add a cooldown for the dumb cookie thing please

[PKPenguin321]

Kill me

[The Ultimate Chimera]

Cute and stuff, wew.

[Pilgrim]

DELET THIS

[Cik]

there are many counters

also mekhi can you add a follow link to the "borgname has used peacekeeping harm alarm" text that pops up for the AI?

i'd like to jump there and mediate but it takes longer than i'd like sometimes thx

Like????
Look I like the new Borg but even I think they don't got a huge amount of counters

ask it to follow you

flash it, beat it to death with a crowbar

flash + subvert with emag (and you get a free cyborg slave that's hard for everyone else to deal with)

tell it to go away

shoot it with a gun until it is dead (i mean, if it's coming down maint at you and you have a revolver it's pretty easy)

use any of the full-screen instant death weapons available to you such as:

EMP grenade: full screen+ battery-draining 10s+ stun

flashbang: full screen 10s+ stun

emp implant (literally invisible uncounterable full screen battery-draining stun)

emp screech ^

ion rifle: ranged battery-draining high damage multi-tile 10s+ stun

hit it with a high damage weapon a few times

use the robotics console and/or build one and instantly detonate it

depower everything so it can't open doors

laser pointer it

sabotage the power so it can't recharge

subvert it's lawset (free cyborg slave wee)

coderbus has been adding instant fuck you borg weapons for at this point probably over a fucking year now, and the ones that were in the game are so cheap it's A B S U R D an EMP implant which is a fullscreen+ instant INVISIBLE battery-draining multi-use stun is TWO TC

T W O T C JUST BUY ONE NEVER WORRY ABOUT BORGS AGAIN HOLY SHIT

i mean a weapon to deal with a fucking ASSISTANT is more expensive than that and it hard counters the assistant LESS. i mean at the same price you can get an energy dagger which can't fucking kill a human very fast at all, you have to be in melee range and you have to deal with them yaketying around the fucking place while your incredibly obvious pulsating murderboner is making it's incredibly obvious noise. anybody who says that borgs are uncounterable at this stage i can't even fucking comprehend

[kevinz000]

Not sure how far along Mekhi is on those bugfixes, but once he's done it'll get another test merge, and then probably a final merge.

Soon as my keyboard arrives, kaythanks
DM doesn't seem to like on screen keyboards...

[PKPenguin321]

Not sure how far along Mekhi is on those bugfixes, but once he's done it'll get another test merge, and then probably a final merge.

Soon as my keyboard arrives, kaythanks
DM doesn't seem to like on screen keyboards...

Are you not aware that it was already merged

[Cheridan]

hurr

you realize that it doesn't count as a separate item if you say "flash and do X" and "flash and do Y", right.
hitting a borg to death doesn't work since they can just move away at full speed unlike a human who will be slow and possibly knocked down.

you have to realize that EMPs were added to every antag over time because those who didn't get them like changelings were constantly getting their shit wrecked.
cyborgs needed hard counters because they didn't have any soft counters

[Incomptinence]

There have been times when lings were explicitly designed to only have a slight edge on an assistant big surprise they were hopeless against borgs.

[Cik]

hurr

you realize that it doesn't count as a separate item if you say "flash and do X" and "flash and do Y", right.
hitting a borg to death doesn't work since they can just move away at full speed unlike a human who will be slow and possibly knocked down.

you have to realize that EMPs were added to every antag over time because those who didn't get them like changelings were constantly getting their shit wrecked.
cyborgs needed hard counters because they didn't have any soft counters

unless you have a truly terrifying weapons humans are perfectly capable of running away. what does it take, like 3-4 hits with a fire extinguisher until someone is slowed significantly?

the things that can kill a human quickly can kill a cyborg quickly. really cheri, lethal combat with improvised weapons doesn't really happen so saying that humans are vulnerable to fire extinguishers without significant advantages like huge numbers, stuns, slips etc. cyborgs are no different, except cyborg stun times are significantly longer.

i don't even oppose cyborgs get slower when damaged i mean who cares really but it'd be another nerf in a long list of nerfs which has entirely failed to satisfy the sillicons overpowered no counters :^) crowd

[Incomptinence]

I specifically suggested borgs to get slowed down when damaged among other thing to act as companions to the more complex human damage model, nothing came of it.

[Screemonster]

In my second round of being a Peacekeeper I saw an antag drag someone who was in crit into maintenance while continuing to hit him, I rolled after him, managed to snatched the body away and escaped, when the antag gave chase I shot him with a bola and dragged the critted person into medbay.

Which lead to someone instantly being very salty about PK borgs in OOC and how they should be removed...

This is kind of the level of irrationality we sometimes have, when being able to pull something is already too much...

Replace the PK borg in this scenario with a secborg and just imagine how monumentally rekt he'd have been.

[Cik]

secborg is obligated by it's laws to tow the guy to medbay over arresting the killer anyway doe

potential for future harm < the oxydamage on the critted guy

[Screemonster]

Yeah
it'd tase the guy instead of using bolas, but the end result of REEEEEEEEE BORGS over a borg doing something any greyshit could pull off would be unchanged - just with extra butthurt because of muh secborg boogeymans.

[Cik]

pulling cucked me out of a kill

remove pulling

in fact tbh it'd better if my weapons instagibbed everyone aboard the station

remove everything else

[Luke Cox]

Everybody should spawn as quadriplegics. Hands can be used to hold items that can stun, and legs let them chase after people. If people can use potentially harmful items they'll just validhunt everyone.

[Anonmare]

The only complaint I can see as potentially valid is that the robo console can't be emagged as I recall.
Just make it emaggable to satisfy the traitor tots who can't spare 2TCs for a fuck-you item tbh.

[PKPenguin321]

Everybody should spawn as quadriplegics. Hands can be used to hold items that can stun, and legs let them chase after people. If people can use potentially harmful items they'll just validhunt everyone.

strawman overload

i just cant fathom how you can think this is a good argument
i cant even argue with you because it's like shouting at a retarded 2 year old, you're too dense to understand what i'm saying, nevermind reading what i've written in the first place

[kevinz000]

No, it's not already merged. Yes, I am working on it.

[Armhulen]

Everybody should spawn as quadriplegics. Hands can be used to hold items that can stun, and legs let them chase after people. If people can use potentially harmful items they'll just validhunt everyone.

strawman overload

i just cant fathom how you can think this is a good argument
i cant even argue with you because it's like shouting at a retarded 2 year old, you're too dense to understand what i'm saying, nevermind reading what i've written in the first place

He has a point this is the most retarded thing you've said in awhile, and I haven't even mentioned strawman

[Luke Cox]

Everybody should spawn as quadriplegics. Hands can be used to hold items that can stun, and legs let them chase after people. If people can use potentially harmful items they'll just validhunt everyone.

strawman overload

i just cant fathom how you can think this is a good argument
i cant even argue with you because it's like shouting at a retarded 2 year old, you're too dense to understand what i'm saying, nevermind reading what i've written in the first place

The point is that every mob in the game can valid people if they really try, and thus it's a policy issue.

[bandit]

I don't really care one way or another, I just really, really, really hate the sprite of these things, they look like Wall-E drawn by an elementary schooler

[Incomptinence]

?????

?????