Stunprod change

[Poorman]

Why did this change need to happen? Is it so wrong that people outside of sec and traitors have a semi-reliable weapon to defend themselves with?

It's no stronger then a stun baton, and considering that security and antagonists are getting more and more tools all the time, why did stunprods have to be made completely worthless?

Just having one will mean that sec will now immediately arrest you. It's just an option that frankly needs to be in the game in order to give non-sec players at the very least a fighting chance against antagonists or security.

There's just no reason for this.

[TheNightingale]

Why are non-Sec players fighting antagonists and Security in the first place? If you want to stop a murderboner, it's still just as effective as before - but now you can't whip it out and stun Security when they arrest you for stealing all-access, or end an antag's gimmick because they didn't account for someone wanting to get their valids on.

[Reyn]

Why did this change need to happen? Is it so wrong that people outside of sec and traitors have a semi-reliable weapon to defend themselves with?

It's no stronger then a stun baton, and considering that security and antagonists are getting more and more tools all the time, why did stunprods have to be made completely worthless?

Just having one will mean that sec will now immediately arrest you. It's just an option that frankly needs to be in the game in order to give non-sec players at the very least a fighting chance against antagonists or security.

There's just no reason for this.

Here's a few reasons.
>Stunlock clown
>Miners becoming ungodly forces of mass destruction
>Assistants killing everyone in stunlock
>Science forcefully taking test subjects
>Gangs being able to stunlock
>Cults being able to stunlock
>Monkies being able to stun people even if sec is locked down
>Autismfort defence
>Metagrudge instrument
>Mime
>Letting a troll get their hands on it
>People spacing stunned people left and right
>Assholes creating it at roundstart.

[Atlanta-Ned]

Yet another recipient for the "Totally Missing The Point" award.

Why did this change need to happen? Is it so wrong that people outside of sec and traitors have a semi-reliable weapon to defend themselves with?

Alright kids, say it with me: There are no protagonists in this game. You exist to make things more interesting and to maybe have some fun of your own while the station goes to shit around you.

Just having one will mean that sec will now immediately arrest you.

Then don't make one.

It's just an option that frankly needs to be in the game in order to give non-sec players at the very least a fighting chance against antagonists or security.

You have options. It's called "disarm" intent and your fists if you need them. And why the fuck do you need a fighting chance against security? Are you talking about the one-in-one-thousand chance that an antag gets promoted to sec? Just deal with it. Have fun. Don't worry about not being the hero.

[InsaneHyena]

This was a good change. Validhunters now need to actually open carry those.

[Reyn]

This was a good change. Validhunters now need to actually open carry those.

Wait, Does that mean the validhunters can be validhunted?

[youtube]huQoDlHmqrE[/youtube]


THIS IS A GREAT VICTORY TO STEALTH ANTAGS,SECURITY AND PRETTY MUCH EVERYONE BUT GREYSHIRTS

[InsaneHyena]

> Greyshirts suffering
Good.

[Falamazeer]

It's fair, and balancing, stunprods just became the new stungloves which were highly abused and imbalanced and unfair.

Being hard to hide by being very not compact makes it fair, nerfs are never taken well, But I stand behind the coder & maintainer who had the great big massive, clanking, luscious balls to do it.

You guys are in your rights to be salty and upset of course, after all it was a toy you've always been able to play with in one incarnation or another, but on the other side of the curtain, this makes it much harder to use the ultimate doomsday weapon: Surprise.

Stuns and stunbased combat have always been a hot button issue here, but anyone worth their round-count knows that nothing trumps surprise. Stunprods still have their place as an intimidating weapon, but now they are not the ultimate assasination tool that it was.

[Reyn]

It's fair, and balancing, stunprods just became the new stungloves which were highly abused and imbalanced and unfair.

Being hard to hide by being very not compact makes it fair, nerfs are never taken well, But I stand behind the coder & maintainer who had the great big massive, clanking, luscious balls to do it.

You guys are in your rights to be salty and upset of course, after all it was a toy you've always been able to play with in one incarnation or another, but on the other side of the curtain, this makes it much harder to use the ultimate doomsday weapon: Surprise.

Stuns and stunbased combat have always been a hot button issue here, but anyone worth their round-count knows that nothing trumps surprise. Stunprods still have their place as an intimidating weapon, but now they are not the ultimate assasination tool that it was.

I agree with you.




Stunprods were hitler


Basicly a reskin of stunbaton, which was meant for security only, not the random greyshirt

[Poorman]

Why are non-Sec players fighting antagonists and Security in the first place? If you want to stop a murderboner, it's still just as effective as before - but now you can't whip it out and stun Security when they arrest you for stealing all-access, or end an antag's gimmick because they didn't account for someone wanting to get their valids on.

That's a stupid mentality to have. The game isn't just antagonists vs security, and every player has a right to get involved in fighting off antags if they want to. It's also not as effective at stopping a murderboner anymore, considering you have to pull out the tools, wait five seconds to craft it, attach a battery to it, and then flip it on. Then once you're done with it you just have to leave it somewhere, because you can no longer carry it.

Why did this change need to happen? Is it so wrong that people outside of sec and traitors have a semi-reliable weapon to defend themselves with?

It's no stronger then a stun baton, and considering that security and antagonists are getting more and more tools all the time, why did stunprods have to be made completely worthless?

Just having one will mean that sec will now immediately arrest you. It's just an option that frankly needs to be in the game in order to give non-sec players at the very least a fighting chance against antagonists or security.

There's just no reason for this.

Here's a few reasons.

The prod isn't even that powerful. It's a weaker stun baton, and in a game where all combat relies around stunning, taking away the one reliable tool just means that now non-sec just has no real chance fighting an antagonist.

One or two stuns across an entire cult or spread out across three gangs is not that big a deal, considering once these rounds start going, they'll usually have access to sec gear anyways.

Sec has a shit ton of tools, traitors have a shit ton of tools. You shouldn't be expected to just roll over at every antagonist role if you're not security. It just makes the game way less involving when you only want 10% of the people playing in the round to have actual combat tools, often a lot less on lowpop Basil, when there's often nobody playing security in the first place.

How can you call it a metagrudge instrument? Anything can be used as a tool to fuck someone over you have a problem with, and you can do it as Sec, too. What's equally possible is that I use the stunprod to fend off someone who is metagrudging me.

None of your reasons really mean anything. Who cares if someone makes one at roundstart? What's the significance of that? Oh no, someone made a tool that can let them fight an antag, except they're still likely to get their shit kicked in because they're still fighting at a massive disadvantage. The horror.

[Screemonster]

have you tried getting good

it's not like there aren't a million other ways to kill someone that don't involve building a concealed stunstick and if things are at murderbone time nobody's gonna give a shit if you openly carry one to dunk the tator

[Bluespace]

Now is the age of the soap and clown PDA my friend.

[Slignerd]

Can someone fill me in on what's the actual change?

Oh, it's about the stun prods now only fitting on the back? It's a good change, but I think it should be possible to place them on the belt slot as well. Still visible, but doesn't literally deny you the right to wear backpacks at all.

[ShadowDimentio]

Thanks coders for ruining fun once again, I await with baited breaths to see the forthcoming soap and PDA nerf for being the new meta

[Slignerd]

Make soap, PDA and bananas RNG based - they're all small objects, it makes no sense for them to be a guaranteed slip.

[Wyzack]

Unless you are a tiding shitter this does not effect you. If you really need one for non greytide reasons you will not get arrested for holding it in your hands. Stun combat is fucking garbage anyways

[D&B]

Just assault the clown for his PDA

[ShadowDimentio]

>If you really need one you won't get dunked

No you'll just get dunked by anyone you're trying to fight because you traded 90% of your inventory for a very shitty stun weapon.

All because of a few vocal assblasted coders.

B A L A N C E

[Wyzack]

You can hold it in your hand though

[ShadowDimentio]

What retard holds a weapon in their hands, that's just begging to get disarmed by the antag/greyshirt/clown/anyone else

[Sidon]

There has been better alts to stun prods for a while now. They're all more lethal, but that's more fun I think!

[ShadowDimentio]

That's usually where you list the examples. Also "there are better alternatives" is all the more reason to NOT fucking nerf prods into the ground.

[Sidon]

>he doesnt know

Really makes ya think

[oranges]

the fact that Atlanta Ned and Falamazeer think it's a good change honestly makes me think we should revert it.

[TheNightingale]

You know the stunprod is still just as powerful as it was before, right? The only thing that got changed is that it's now bulky, and can be worn on the back. So if you know there's a dangerous antag running around shooting people, you're still just as well-armed as you were before the nerf. It just dissuades people from making stunprods unless they know they'll need them, and stops surprise stuns (except if it's in a BoH, but then you have bigger problems).

"This means we can't have a stunprod in our bags for self-defence, and then stun and kill anyone with Syndie gear within melee range of us..." Yes. Yes, it does. Get your valids elsewhere.
"But now we can't stun Security when they arrest us..." Good. Stop resisting arrest.
"Antags now don't have a reliable method of--" The stunprod still works. It's just bigger now.

There are only really a few reasons you should have a stunprod. Those are... you're an antagonist; you're deconstructing it for babby-tier research; you're confiscating it/taking it to Sec; there's a loud antag killing everyone.
"I'm an antagonist, and I need a way of stunning people that isn't immediately obvious." Team antags either don't need stuns (rev, gang, ops), or already have them (cult, clockcult); solo antags already have ways of stunning people.
"I'm deconstructing it, but now it's too big to fit in my bag..." You have to walk like, five tiles to get to the DA. Lazy ass.
"I'm taking it to Security, but it's too big to hide, and I might get disarmed for it." Whoever disarms you now has to deal with Sec.
"There's a loud antag killing everyone." Then you should have the stunprod ready at all times, regardless of how big it is.

[ShadowDimentio]

>Just as powerful as before
>It's /just/ bulky guais

Stop. 90% of your inventory is your backpack. What imbecile sacrifices 90% of their inventory, inventory they could be using to store meds or other gear, for a half decent weapon that any guard with a lick of sense will steal and any antag will avoid? You might as well have fucking removed them.

[confused rock]

"Antags now don't have a reliable method of--" The stunprod still works. It's just bigger now.

are you fucking shitting me right here
I don't know about you but if I'm an antag who is using a stun prod to kill somebody, I need my backpack space and it is an easy way to get people to run away.
If anything, this is just going to promote people throwing stuff at beepsky to kill it if they want a stun weapon that badly.

[PKPenguin321]

Thanks coders for ruining fun once again, I await with baited breaths to see the forthcoming soap and PDA nerf for being the new meta

"new"

[TheColdTurtle]

Can't fucking win with this community. If you nerf it fucking slightly then grey shirt cancer on the forums will cry about it. If you remove it they would cry even fucking more. If you don't do anything then more people will whine. Fucking awful christ

[onleavedontatme]

Why do the same people whine about murder sprees and then whine about "validhunters" stopping murder sprees.

[J_Madison]

What imbecile sacrifices 90% of their inventory, inventory they could be using to store meds or other gear, for a half decent weapon that any guard with a lick of sense will steal and any antag will avoid?

The kind of imbecile that goes around hunting antags as a non-security role. Here's a hint if you want to catch antags play sec.
The kind of imbecile that is so unrobust at self defense they metagame a stunprod to carry at all times.

[PKPenguin321]

Can't fucking win with this community. If you nerf it fucking slightly then grey shirt cancer on the forums will cry about it. If you remove it they would cry even fucking more. If you don't do anything then more people will whine. Fucking awful christ

the secret is ignoring the kneejerk feedback and waiting until it's in the game for a while
this works for a lot of things except apparently for silicon changes

[oranges]

sec is not anti antag outside of rev or cult, please stop that meme.

Outside of rev or cult you're there to make the antags have a sense of paranoia as they attempt to achieve their objectives without getting caught, not to chase them all down and smash their heads in as you triumphantly masturbate over the redtexts they receive.

[Poorman]

I'm just gonna call the inevitable disarm nerf. After all, why should an assistant be able to beat a traitor just because he went up and disarmed him? Disarm is totally concealed, so there's always the element of surprise. An entire fight can be ended with disarm, and those valid hunting gray tiders always switch their intent to disarm at round start when they go around and hunt valids.

Why should anyone ever be able to just win a fight when they have no equipment? Seems pretty ridiculous.

[Atlanta-Ned]

Outside of rev or cult you're there to make the antags have a sense of paranoia as they attempt to achieve their objectives without getting caught, not to chase them all down and smash their heads in as you triumphantly masturbate over the redtexts they receive.

[DemonFiren]

I'm just gonna call the inevitable disarm nerf. After all, why should an assistant be able to beat a traitor just because he went up and disarmed him? Disarm is totally concealed, so there's always the element of surprise. An entire fight can be ended with disarm, and those valid hunting gray tiders always switch their intent to disarm at round start when they go around and hunt valids.

Why should anyone ever be able to just win a fight when they have no equipment? Seems pretty ridiculous.

Disarming someone with a baton should have a chance to stun you, at least.
Disarming someone with anything that's mostly sharp edges (swords, knives, not axes) should net you a solid chance to cut off your own hands.
Or we just find ourselves a masochist madman and turn this all into Cata:DDA or Dorf combat.

[Incomptinence]

"SEC MUST NOT BE ANTI ANTAG GUYS!

Uh revert this change thought, it stops my random greyshit being anti antag."

Oranges' twisted world view where it is a sin for a officer to engage a known traitor but it is blessed for random civilians.

Oranges' inane anti sec blather aside I never really minded compact prods.

[J_Madison]

sec is not anti antag outside of rev or cult, please stop that meme.

Outside of rev or cult you're there to make the antags have a sense of paranoia as they attempt to achieve their objectives without getting caught, not to chase them all down and smash their heads in as you triumphantly masturbate over the redtexts they receive.

Citation needed.

[MrStonedOne]

sec is not anti antag outside of rev or cult, please stop that meme.

Outside of rev or cult you're there to make the antags have a sense of paranoia as they attempt to achieve their objectives without getting caught, not to chase them all down and smash their heads in as you triumphantly masturbate over the redtexts they receive.

[J_Madison]

alright looks like the host veto has been invoked
Debates over, everyone go home.
Security is only a buffer zone and no longer anti-antag.

[Incomptinence]

The thing is they are anti murder though. Basically any loud antag is a murderer and well few people ever got caught stealing the bloody RCD. Sec finds antags because they commit crimes their objectives involve doing crime we don't have tests they are doing crimes and almost all gear and abilities are contraband at the least. The assertion that sec shouldn't even check some of the sneakier items (a huge waste of time often) is basically anti RP since after the shitty forensics system inventory is half the detective work.


Apart from the balloon bragging meets grunting caveman sec scenario it just about never matters.

[Atlanta-Ned]

Security is only a buffer zone and no longer anti-antag.

never has been, never was

[Lumbermancer]

When within first 5 minutes half of the station gets bombed or all airlocks get emagged then security becomes anti-antag, this is the nature of things whether you like it or not. There is no paranoia anymore, and no amount of freon will bring it back.

[onleavedontatme]

When within first 5 minutes half of the station gets bombed or all airlocks get emagged then security becomes anti-antag, this is the nature of things whether you like it or not. There is no paranoia anymore, and no amount of freon will bring it back.

No traitor sec, loyalty implants, and sec HUDS are the big paranoia killers so it would take some pretty nasty nerfs to security to bring it back (not that anyone wants it back).

Security is only a buffer zone and no longer anti-antag.

never has been, never was

And now the people saying "leave the antag hunting to security" are saying "security isn't anti-antag"

As long as the antags are station ending threats, like snowballing teams (cult, clockcult, gangs, etc), deathsquads that will literally nuke it (ops), or just generally bringing about a bad time (wizards exploding people in the halls, changelings eating people) then people are going to want to "hunt" the badguys, and I don't think that's really a negative reaction on a players part. The only mode in which sec is designed as a buffer instead of Blue Team against the antag Red Team is traitor, and even then security has no real job outside of catching those people.

Daily reminder the only to get rid of "valid hunting" is to get rid of the "traitors can murder whoever they want for literally no reason at any time" rule but nobody wants to do that either.

[Wyzack]

As sec, it is more your job to maintain order on the station, protect the crew and ensure the plasma continues to flow. This usually means that you will be directly opposed to antagonists, as their goals will directly oppose this. However this seems to have warped to "I must cause antagonists to fail at all costs, gotta get dat redtext." This is often true, but is incidental to your actual goal of maintaining security. Therefore fucking murdering a guy over posession of a shiney red balloon for instance, or that shitsack the other day who fucking bombed a shuttle full of people because he thought he might cause a redtext or two, are a cancer

[Lumbermancer]

No traitor sec, loyalty implants, and sec HUDS are the big paranoia killers so it would take some pretty nasty nerfs to security to bring it back (not that anyone wants it back.

I have quite opposite opinion: it's the power of traitors that killed paranoia, sec buffs were put in place to catch up to them.

You want run an experiment? Take away traitor uplink.

Think about it, there wouldn't be antags or traitors, just crime. Crime would be the same for everyone whether they have objective or not. You wouldn't get instant execution or perma for carrying an emag, just for the crimes you commited. I know people hate Space Law, but it would make it more like actual law. There would be less valid hunting because valids would be harder to distinguish from gray tide. Security would be police. Rounds would last longer too.

As for the traitor, they would have to actually plan and think ahead. Scrounge and steal, lie and con to facilitate their plan. Not just pick a toy from the list they want to fuck shit up with this round.

[WarbossLincoln]

and those valid hunting gray tiders always switch their intent to disarm at round start when they go around and hunt valids.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who notices and is annoyed by this. For some reason it annoys me when I can't walk past people 2 seconds into the round because the grey shits switch to disarm immediately on round start.

[TheColdTurtle]

Remove greytide

[onleavedontatme]

5-8 guys armed to the teeth, experienced and balanced around fighting wizards and nuke ops and the entire crew at once (rev) would probably not be paranoid in a traitor round with no uplinks.

but they can't tell the difference between greytide and traitors

So just gulag them both. If they don't want to spend 20 minutes hitting rocks they're not your problem anymore.

That and we banned most serious forms of greytide so if the guy is still moving after that welderbomb he's probably an antag.

There would be less valid hunting because valids would be harder to distinguish from gray tide.

If anything sec is more aggressive against criminal assistants than they are traitors.

As for the traitor, they would have to actually plan and think ahead. Scrounge and steal, lie and con to facilitate their plan.

You can't con and lie if security has magic goggles that rip apart disguises and a 100% ironclad trust in the rest of security.

As for the traitor, they would have to actually plan and think ahead.

That sounds great until a newbie traitor tries to execute his plan and the guy who has played two thousand rounds just punches him to death because he had no special gear to give him an edge.

However this seems to have warped to "I must cause antagonists to fail at all costs, gotta get dat redtext."

I don't think shuttle bombing to stop greentext is really a common scenario, and that guy got banned for it. Most people tend to ignore balloons as well.

[Wyzack]

Yeah shuttlebomber guy was an edge case but it is still indicative of the general antags must fail mindset