internal affair agents
- BeeSting12
- Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2016 1:11 am
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- Location: 'Murica
internal affair agents
alright so heres the thread for the IAA which replaced double agents. PR is right here: https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/26651
So first I'd like to say it is pretty boring after you kill your target. If you do it stealthily then you do nothing the rest of the round. Maybe braindead in a pod or whatever idk. If you don't then just mulligan or maybe kill everyone pursuing you turning into a pseudo murderbone... BWOINK BWOINK BWOINK.
Having nothing to do after your target was dead was the most common complaint I heard. Another one I personally have is that the flavour text is obnoxiously huge and you have to scroll up to read it all.
So first I'd like to say it is pretty boring after you kill your target. If you do it stealthily then you do nothing the rest of the round. Maybe braindead in a pod or whatever idk. If you don't then just mulligan or maybe kill everyone pursuing you turning into a pseudo murderbone... BWOINK BWOINK BWOINK.
Having nothing to do after your target was dead was the most common complaint I heard. Another one I personally have is that the flavour text is obnoxiously huge and you have to scroll up to read it all.
- Luke Cox
- Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2014 8:52 am
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Re: internal affair agents
It needs to be less double agents wannabe and more Spy vs. Spy. The "criminals" should be actual syndies with regular objectives. Maybe scrap the syndie items entirely and give them a bunch of Bond-style spy gadgets.
- cedarbridge
- Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 12:24 am
- Byond Username: Cedarbridge
Re: internal affair agents
You understand that DA was meant to be "spy vs spy" in the first place. That was literally the entire point.Luke Cox wrote:It needs to be less double agents wannabe and more Spy vs. Spy. The "criminals" should be actual syndies with regular objectives. Maybe scrap the syndie items entirely and give them a bunch of Bond-style spy gadgets.
- BeeSting12
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Re: internal affair agents
Yes but that didn't work so now we're forcing players to play it like that by banning them if they don't. I'd at least like a pref for it so I can turn it off.
- Anonmare
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- Luke Cox
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Re: internal affair agents
Precisely, and it didn't work out. It makes no sense for Centcom agents to be killing other Centcom agents. Make it so that two factions are covertly fighting a shadow war on the station.cedarbridge wrote:You understand that DA was meant to be "spy vs spy" in the first place. That was literally the entire point.Luke Cox wrote:It needs to be less double agents wannabe and more Spy vs. Spy. The "criminals" should be actual syndies with regular objectives. Maybe scrap the syndie items entirely and give them a bunch of Bond-style spy gadgets.
-
- Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:26 pm
- Byond Username: KorPhaeron
Re: internal affair agents
If everyone hates being murderspreed, and the game is boring unless people murderspree, doushio?
Something just seems fundamentally broken if people feel like their only choices are to kill randomly or go afk.
Something just seems fundamentally broken if people feel like their only choices are to kill randomly or go afk.
- Luke Cox
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Re: internal affair agents
What we need are focused antags. People who are highly disruptive, but with clear objectives. It's a shame we can't automate sabotage objectives
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Re: internal affair agents
having killing your target give you a new target would make it much more fun I would thing. keeping the focus on stealth actually leads to the detective being required. I dislike OOC methods of preventing murderbone, it really should be handled in character, if someone purposefully and willfully blows thier cover, sic an ERT on thier asses or have centcom out them or something
- Luke Cox
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- Location: Prisoner Transfer Room
Re: internal affair agents
It's a tricky situation. Humans need to be the primary antagonistic force for the game to work, but humans are going to want to powregame and murderbone as much as possible. Sticking to objectives should be rewarded.
-
- Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:26 pm
- Byond Username: KorPhaeron
Re: internal affair agents
There aren't many rewards you can offer people in a game where you have everything you need to survive from the first second and with characters/gear that wipe every half hour.
Killing randomly is just flat out fun as well, no way around that. Whatever carrot you dangle in front of me probably won't be more fun than just killing the guy next to me.
Robustin mentioned getting TC for every target you kill but I feel like just giving them more guns for killing will eventually lead to them killing at random again after a couple of targets downed, except now with extra TC.
Killing randomly is just flat out fun as well, no way around that. Whatever carrot you dangle in front of me probably won't be more fun than just killing the guy next to me.
Robustin mentioned getting TC for every target you kill but I feel like just giving them more guns for killing will eventually lead to them killing at random again after a couple of targets downed, except now with extra TC.
- Luke Cox
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Re: internal affair agents
The rewards for the agents should be less lethal and focus more on the "cool" factor. Utility stuff mostly.
- PKPenguin321
- Site Admin
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Re: internal affair agents
I haven't trialed this yet myself and I'm hopeful for it, but my main worry is that preventing yourself from being killed is too easy (just hide in a locker in the pods or something and AFK until you greentext), and once you've killed your target hiding is nearly all you'll be able to do without getting bwoinked.
Maybe unlock pinpointers in the uplink at 15 minutes in or something that leads you to your target?
Maybe unlock pinpointers in the uplink at 15 minutes in or something that leads you to your target?
i play Lauser McMauligan. clown name is Cold-Ass Honkey
i have three other top secret characters as well.
tell the best admin how good he is
i have three other top secret characters as well.
tell the best admin how good he is
Spoiler:
-
- Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:26 pm
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Re: internal affair agents
I mean, they're still crew after that. Wouldn't this logically extend to 90% of our players each round have nothing to do but hide without getting an admin PM? Is something not terribly broken in our rules or design if that is the case?hiding is nearly all you'll be able to do without getting bwoinked.
- PKPenguin321
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Re: internal affair agents
They're still crew, sure, only there's somebody actively trying to kill them specifically and they have their victory on the line. Saying it's exactly the same is reaching.Kor wrote:I mean, they're still crew after that. Wouldn't this logically extend to 90% of our players each round have nothing to do but hide without getting an admin PM? Is something not terribly broken in our rules or design if that is the case?hiding is nearly all you'll be able to do without getting bwoinked.
i play Lauser McMauligan. clown name is Cold-Ass Honkey
i have three other top secret characters as well.
tell the best admin how good he is
i have three other top secret characters as well.
tell the best admin how good he is
Spoiler:
- CPTANT
- Joined: Mon May 04, 2015 1:31 pm
- Byond Username: CPTANT
Re: internal affair agents
I think this concept would work way better as a side antag
ANd having different stuff from traitors would make them a lot more interesting.
ANd having different stuff from traitors would make them a lot more interesting.
Timberpoes wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:21 pm The rules exist to create the biggest possible chance of a cool shift of SS13. They don't exist to allow admins to create the most boring interpretation of SS13.
- Luke Cox
- Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2014 8:52 am
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- Location: Prisoner Transfer Room
Re: internal affair agents
It's tricky because this is the first antag where they won't have full valid status over the station
- cedarbridge
- Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 12:24 am
- Byond Username: Cedarbridge
Re: internal affair agents
I mean, realistically, people who think "hey, the chemist is missing. Why is that?" and either send sec to find the AWOL chemist or do it personally. In practice nobody does this because its easier to smash a window to get memefuel and lube and nobody cares if somebody else is doing their job proficiently. I'd wager that most of our players don't even notice or care if their coworkers disappear and some would consider it a boon to have less of them.Kor wrote:I mean, they're still crew after that. Wouldn't this logically extend to 90% of our players each round have nothing to do but hide without getting an admin PM? Is something not terribly broken in our rules or design if that is the case?hiding is nearly all you'll be able to do without getting bwoinked.
- CPTANT
- Joined: Mon May 04, 2015 1:31 pm
- Byond Username: CPTANT
Re: internal affair agents
Yeah but half the time they are missing because they committed suicide somewhere.....cedarbridge wrote:I mean, realistically, people who think "hey, the chemist is missing. Why is that?" and either send sec to find the AWOL chemist or do it personally. In practice nobody does this because its easier to smash a window to get memefuel and lube and nobody cares if somebody else is doing their job proficiently. I'd wager that most of our players don't even notice or care if their coworkers disappear and some would consider it a boon to have less of them.Kor wrote:I mean, they're still crew after that. Wouldn't this logically extend to 90% of our players each round have nothing to do but hide without getting an admin PM? Is something not terribly broken in our rules or design if that is the case?hiding is nearly all you'll be able to do without getting bwoinked.
Timberpoes wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:21 pm The rules exist to create the biggest possible chance of a cool shift of SS13. They don't exist to allow admins to create the most boring interpretation of SS13.
- Cobby
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Re: internal affair agents
I think the issue is the powergame mentality where you'd rather play to win [that is, ensure victory by hiding in a locker indefinitely] rather than actually enjoy the game, even if it costs you the victory.Kor wrote:I mean, they're still crew after that. Wouldn't this logically extend to 90% of our players each round have nothing to do but hide without getting an admin PM? Is something not terribly broken in our rules or design if that is the case?hiding is nearly all you'll be able to do without getting bwoinked.
Voted best trap in /tg/ 2014-current
- Wyzack
- Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 11:32 pm
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Re: internal affair agents
What about if when you kill your target you get assigned a new one from the remaining agents, until centcom has tied off all the loose ends?
Arthur Thomson says, "Since there are no admins I would loging with another account and kill you"
Caleb Robinson laughs.
Arthur Thomson catches fire!
certified good poster
Caleb Robinson laughs.
Arthur Thomson catches fire!
tusterman11 wrote:Can you stop lying? I just asked you and you are was a piece of shiit on me!!!
EngamerAzari's real number one fangirl <3Kor wrote:I wish Wyzack was still an admin.
certified good poster
- Luke Cox
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Re: internal affair agents
How about this: It starts off with Centcom agents killing off Syndicate agents via covert means. The Centcom agents get a bunch of Bond-style gadgets, Syndies get the usual gear. When the Syndies start to die off, the Centcom agents start to get objectives to kill each other. They won't be told this though, so the Centcom agents will think they're still hunting Syndies.
- Not-Dorsidarf
- Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 4:14 pm
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- Location: We're all going on an, admin holiday
Re: internal affair agents
help this is actually a good idea what did you do with the real coxLuke Cox wrote:How about this: It starts off with Centcom agents killing off Syndicate agents via covert means. The Centcom agents get a bunch of Bond-style gadgets, Syndies get the usual gear. When the Syndies start to die off, the Centcom agents start to get objectives to kill each other. They won't be told this though, so the Centcom agents will think they're still hunting Syndies.
kieth4 wrote: infrequently shitting yourself is fine imo
There is a lot of very bizarre nonsense being talked on this forum. I shall now remain silent and logoff until my points are vindicated.
Player who complainted over being killed for looting cap office wrote: ↑Sun Jul 30, 2023 1:33 am Hey there, I'm Virescent, the super evil person who made the stupid appeal and didn't think it through enough. Just came here to say: screech, retards. Screech and writhe like the worms you are. Your pathetic little cries will keep echoing around for a while before quietting down. There is one great outcome from this: I rised up the blood pressure of some of you shitheads and lowered your lifespan. I'm honestly tempted to do this more often just to see you screech and writhe more, but that wouldn't be cool of me. So come on haters, show me some more of your high blood pressure please.
- DemonFiren
- Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:15 pm
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Re: internal affair agents
except it might be pretty easy to meta that it's no longer syndie targets after the first one-two guys i killNot-Dorsidarf wrote:help this is actually a good idea what did you do with the real coxLuke Cox wrote:How about this: It starts off with Centcom agents killing off Syndicate agents via covert means. The Centcom agents get a bunch of Bond-style gadgets, Syndies get the usual gear. When the Syndies start to die off, the Centcom agents start to get objectives to kill each other. They won't be told this though, so the Centcom agents will think they're still hunting Syndies.
safer to just kill them all to be sure
- BeeSting12
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Re: internal affair agents
Yeah, continuously giving targets to the IAA might make it funner for them while keeping the mode murderbone free with """"roleplay"""" (as if security won't just meta that with a dual esword and no murderbone, it's IAA).
Not even about powergaming/greentext, at least for me. It feels like since you rolled a special antagonist role you should be able to do a bit more than kill one person and then be regular crew the rest of the round except you're still valid. Which is another thing: Making IAA valid and not allowing them to valid everyone else isn't fair to the IAA.ExcessiveCobblestone wrote:I think the issue is the powergame mentality where you'd rather play to win [that is, ensure victory by hiding in a locker indefinitely] rather than actually enjoy the game, even if it costs you the victory.Kor wrote:I mean, they're still crew after that. Wouldn't this logically extend to 90% of our players each round have nothing to do but hide without getting an admin PM? Is something not terribly broken in our rules or design if that is the case?hiding is nearly all you'll be able to do without getting bwoinked.
- cedarbridge
- Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 12:24 am
- Byond Username: Cedarbridge
Re: internal affair agents
But see, that's part of the problem. You're putting antag fun above normal fun. You treat it as something desirable above just playing the game normally which creates the idea that one SHOULD be desired above the other.BeeSting12 wrote:Yeah, continuously giving targets to the IAA might make it funner for them while keeping the mode murderbone free with """"roleplay"""" (as if security won't just meta that with a dual esword and no murderbone, it's IAA).
Not even about powergaming/greentext, at least for me. It feels like since you rolled a special antagonist role you should be able to do a bit more than kill one person and then be regular crew the rest of the round except you're still valid. Which is another thing: Making IAA valid and not allowing them to valid everyone else isn't fair to the IAA.ExcessiveCobblestone wrote:I think the issue is the powergame mentality where you'd rather play to win [that is, ensure victory by hiding in a locker indefinitely] rather than actually enjoy the game, even if it costs you the victory.Kor wrote:I mean, they're still crew after that. Wouldn't this logically extend to 90% of our players each round have nothing to do but hide without getting an admin PM? Is something not terribly broken in our rules or design if that is the case?hiding is nearly all you'll be able to do without getting bwoinked.
- BeeSting12
- Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2016 1:11 am
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Re: internal affair agents
People DO desire antagonist roles over normal roles. Not all of them, but many players do. Just look at the popularity of shit everyone is antagonist events that admins do to see this in action. If you made a poll for raging mages or nations, it would probably win because it's out of normal and allows players to do antagonistic actions. Part of what makes antagonist roles exciting and fun is that they're rare (depending on how RNGesus favors you) and you can do something different and fun with them. Just killing one person and doing nothing else the remainder of the round feels like a wasted opportunity, like going to disney's best most expensive restaurant and just ordering a soda or something idk I can't really find a good analogy for it.cedarbridge wrote:But see, that's part of the problem. You're putting antag fun above normal fun. You treat it as something desirable above just playing the game normally which creates the idea that one SHOULD be desired above the other.BeeSting12 wrote: Not even about powergaming/greentext, at least for me. It feels like since you rolled a special antagonist role you should be able to do a bit more than kill one person and then be regular crew the rest of the round except you're still valid. Which is another thing: Making IAA valid and not allowing them to valid everyone else isn't fair to the IAA.
My point there was not that it is desirable above normal crew, because right now IAA isn't- I'd rather be HoS than an IAA. My point was that it should be made more than a "kill one dude and hide the rest of the round praying you don't get validded" antagonist, it should be a spy versus spy mode instead where you always have a target and not suffer from boredom. And I'm not saying that normal crew is boring either- I really enjoy it in fact. But after getting to do antagonistic actions half the round, it feels kinda weird just going back to your job and doing it the remainder of the round. This post kinda rambled on a bit and I definitely didn't get my point across very well but I'm gonna leave it and hope someone reads my mind through it or whatever
- cedarbridge
- Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 12:24 am
- Byond Username: Cedarbridge
Re: internal affair agents
This was my point though and Kor and others have made it elsewhere as well. The reason people "roll for antag" and such is we've dedicated so much time and effort and design time and effort into adding toys and features and rules protections to antags that its become the reason that people play the game. Antags can go anywhere and do whatever they like AND they get these fancy murder toys to do it with. We've dedicated so much to this end, infact, that it doesn't matter how good you are at any of the non-antag things you can do on the station since your ability to succeed at being a no-rules antag doesn't rely on any of it. We've made TC trade tools that do all of that for you. This mentality carries on into players asking admins for TC trades for what basically amounts to doing their job for them. Players claim to be "bored" in extended because they've been conditioned into a game design that focuses around antag fun first and rewarding antag fun above other roles and sources of fun. Our non-antag play has suffered from this.BeeSting12 wrote:People DO desire antagonist roles over normal roles. Not all of them, but many players do. Just look at the popularity of shit everyone is antagonist events that admins do to see this in action. If you made a poll for raging mages or nations, it would probably win because it's out of normal and allows players to do antagonistic actions. Part of what makes antagonist roles exciting and fun is that they're rare (depending on how RNGesus favors you) and you can do something different and fun with them. Just killing one person and doing nothing else the remainder of the round feels like a wasted opportunity, like going to disney's best most expensive restaurant and just ordering a soda or something idk I can't really find a good analogy for it.cedarbridge wrote:But see, that's part of the problem. You're putting antag fun above normal fun. You treat it as something desirable above just playing the game normally which creates the idea that one SHOULD be desired above the other.BeeSting12 wrote: Not even about powergaming/greentext, at least for me. It feels like since you rolled a special antagonist role you should be able to do a bit more than kill one person and then be regular crew the rest of the round except you're still valid. Which is another thing: Making IAA valid and not allowing them to valid everyone else isn't fair to the IAA.
- Luke Cox
- Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2014 8:52 am
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- Location: Prisoner Transfer Room
Re: internal affair agents
Except odds are that they'll have a decent collection of Syndie gear on them if they've stayed alive that long. Are they a Centcom agent who killed several Syndies, or a Syndie who killed several Centcom agents?DemonFiren wrote:except it might be pretty easy to meta that it's no longer syndie targets after the first one-two guys i killNot-Dorsidarf wrote:help this is actually a good idea what did you do with the real coxLuke Cox wrote:How about this: It starts off with Centcom agents killing off Syndicate agents via covert means. The Centcom agents get a bunch of Bond-style gadgets, Syndies get the usual gear. When the Syndies start to die off, the Centcom agents start to get objectives to kill each other. They won't be told this though, so the Centcom agents will think they're still hunting Syndies.
safer to just kill them all to be sure
- DemonFiren
- Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:15 pm
- Byond Username: DemonFiren
Re: internal affair agents
which is why you kill everyone shortly after roundstart, as usualLuke Cox wrote:Except odds are that they'll have a decent collection of Syndie gear on them if they've stayed alive that long. Are they a Centcom agent who killed several Syndies, or a Syndie who killed several Centcom agents?DemonFiren wrote:except it might be pretty easy to meta that it's no longer syndie targets after the first one-two guys i killNot-Dorsidarf wrote:help this is actually a good idea what did you do with the real coxLuke Cox wrote:How about this: It starts off with Centcom agents killing off Syndicate agents via covert means. The Centcom agents get a bunch of Bond-style gadgets, Syndies get the usual gear. When the Syndies start to die off, the Centcom agents start to get objectives to kill each other. They won't be told this though, so the Centcom agents will think they're still hunting Syndies.
safer to just kill them all to be sure
which should be easier as syndie, i guess
- BeeSting12
- Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2016 1:11 am
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Re: internal affair agents
if i knew gamemode code or how to code in general I'd change IAA to this. any coders interested in this please make this a thing because it sounds a lot funner than IAA as it is nowWyzack wrote:What about if when you kill your target you get assigned a new one from the remaining agents, until centcom has tied off all the loose ends?
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- Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:26 pm
- Byond Username: KorPhaeron
Re: internal affair agents
Pinpointers and updating targets might be cool. It'd make it more of a pain to revert if it keeps diverging away from double agents though, it'd be pretty easy to just cut this experiment short at this point.
- cocothegogo
- Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2014 10:11 pm
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- Location: Brazil
Re: internal affair agents
have like an objective that is like do 50% integrity damage to like a certain department like blow up medbay idk
- cedarbridge
- Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 12:24 am
- Byond Username: Cedarbridge
Re: internal affair agents
"I don't roleplay and I'm just here to click sprites so jobs are boring and we need more aimless murder to keep my attention."CosmicScientist wrote: Sing this jingle with me~
It's mafia/werewolf, you can surely see?
people gloat of the paranoia with glee.
Each and every round is Captain & security,
Hunting down all crew members with inbuilt impurity.
Escalation memes derive from text green and red,
This has forever been our butter and our bread.
A game offers failure and success,
Crew roles are all a great heaping mess.
What does a simple librarian do?
Or even a bartender think to brew?
After all, it's busywork to play,
That does not others easily sway.
The end only comes when the shuttle is called,
After antagonists, destruction installed.
Yeah that was pretty shite but I got syllable consistency until the end for a change so I might be improving even if the flow is godawful.
Yes, that's basically the problem. People want interesting player interactions but the only player interactions a large portion of players want is applying weaponry to the remaining portion. The "its always been how I imagine it" is a crappy argument and you aren't going to sway anyone looking to create change by appealing to tradition. I mean, by your examples "librarian and bartender aren't interesting" because player interactions involving talking and just generally being semi-human are harder than running around brawling with toolboxes. That's an issue for those players and a player mentality issue tied up in attention span more than anything else. Sure, we can do things with certain jobs to make them slightly more interesting, but that would mean we stop dedicating so much of coder dev time to adding new gadgets and weapons to antag modes (something that should have happened anyway but because they're the easiest thing to do, they keep coming.) Your librarian example is already getting a little love. He's a human language translator now. That gets a lot of potential when we get around to racial languages, secondary bay languages like tradeband or gutter, the crew kidnap a xeno and stuff it in a pen, etc etc. There's a lot of stuff that people do, but as you admit, we just have a current culture built on gotta get those valids and it leads to short, boring rounds.
Why give an objective for something antags do anyway? Objectives should be hard enough to be a challenge but not so difficult that the player is more inclined to skip them and just run around. No round has ever been improved by "Oh, medbay got bombed, again"cocothegogo wrote:have like an objective that is like do 50% integrity damage to like a certain department like blow up medbay idk
- Oldman Robustin
- Joined: Tue May 13, 2014 2:18 pm
- Byond Username: ForcefulCJS
Re: internal affair agents
For better or worse the danger of murderboners and the satisfaction of validhunting them giving ordinary crew a purpose during traitor rounds.Kor wrote:I mean, they're still crew after that. Wouldn't this logically extend to 90% of our players each round have nothing to do but hide without getting an admin PM? Is something not terribly broken in our rules or design if that is the case?hiding is nearly all you'll be able to do without getting bwoinked.
During IAA? Nobody will kill you if you stay out of their business and while you can kind of validhunt, it loses appeal when the only people antags are killing are other antags. IAA are basically security officers but with less valid kills available to them (IAA won't be able to go around picking fights with assistants and killing them when they lose).
You really just need to throw regular potatoes into the mix so its not easy to metagame that just because agents are on board doesn't mean you're safe or that the guy with an ebow dragging a corpse isn't a threat.
- Luke Cox
- Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2014 8:52 am
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- Location: Prisoner Transfer Room
Re: internal affair agents
Syndies could try to murderbone out of the gate, but that'll out them to the agents who are trying to take them down very quickly. Agents themselves aren't allowed to murderbone.DemonFiren wrote:which is why you kill everyone shortly after roundstart, as usualLuke Cox wrote:Except odds are that they'll have a decent collection of Syndie gear on them if they've stayed alive that long. Are they a Centcom agent who killed several Syndies, or a Syndie who killed several Centcom agents?DemonFiren wrote:except it might be pretty easy to meta that it's no longer syndie targets after the first one-two guys i killNot-Dorsidarf wrote:help this is actually a good idea what did you do with the real coxLuke Cox wrote:How about this: It starts off with Centcom agents killing off Syndicate agents via covert means. The Centcom agents get a bunch of Bond-style gadgets, Syndies get the usual gear. When the Syndies start to die off, the Centcom agents start to get objectives to kill each other. They won't be told this though, so the Centcom agents will think they're still hunting Syndies.
safer to just kill them all to be sure
which should be easier as syndie, i guess
This does bring up another point though: Centcom Agents would be the first antags who are only allowed to kill specific people. How should something like that be handled? Are they technically even antags?
- Yakumo_Chen
- Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2015 10:08 pm
- Byond Username: Yakumo Chen
Re: internal affair agents
I like any mode where antags aren't allowed to bomb the station within the first 5 mintues because 'ha ha grief roll' and thus make the next 30 minutes of my job pointless since the shuttle will be called before I can do anything fun
It also stops ChildFlayer from flooding atmos literally every single antag round
It also stops ChildFlayer from flooding atmos literally every single antag round
- Yakumo_Chen
- Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2015 10:08 pm
- Byond Username: Yakumo Chen
Re: internal affair agents
Idea: The last one or two IAA agents get 'hired' by the syndicate and get extra TC and free reign.
Solves the 'antag got bored' issue and solves my 20 minute shuttle call problem that I have with most other antags.
Solves the 'antag got bored' issue and solves my 20 minute shuttle call problem that I have with most other antags.
- The Clowns Pocket
- Joined: Tue May 02, 2017 4:56 am
Re: internal affair agents
As a IA agent, can you still do goofy, gimmicky and (mildly) greify shit?
Being able to let loose and occasionally do things like E-Mag literally every door really is part of the charm of tator for me.
Being able to let loose and occasionally do things like E-Mag literally every door really is part of the charm of tator for me.
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- Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2016 6:31 pm
- Byond Username: DrBee
Re: internal affair agents
Getting new targets and a TC reward after each kill would make the mode a bit more interesting. the problem of antag TC snowballing isnt really an argument with a normal traitor typically looting the corpse of the kill anyway making the total gain potentially another 20 TC worth of items. Robustin's proposed idea to give Agents less TC than traitors but TC rewards will not only prevent roundstart murderboning but will also reward a bit more creativity. large amounts of TC are a crutch that antags shouldnt really need, they are hugbox for antagonists.
Also I dont think muderboners in this mode should be handled via OOC admin communication and bans. It would be more fun and more interesting if the game master or admins reacted in character to the agents actions, so sure you can murderboner but centcom is going to get pissed and ERT you if you do it for long enough. Some simple RP guidelines for administration as well as a clear warning that agents is a mode where the admins are allowed to get involved in character will soften the blow of any agent who thinks admin action "ruined" their antag round. This would require the mode not to be rolled when there is no admin on however, unless some sort of automation could be coded.
Also I dont think muderboners in this mode should be handled via OOC admin communication and bans. It would be more fun and more interesting if the game master or admins reacted in character to the agents actions, so sure you can murderboner but centcom is going to get pissed and ERT you if you do it for long enough. Some simple RP guidelines for administration as well as a clear warning that agents is a mode where the admins are allowed to get involved in character will soften the blow of any agent who thinks admin action "ruined" their antag round. This would require the mode not to be rolled when there is no admin on however, unless some sort of automation could be coded.
- BeeSting12
- Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2016 1:11 am
- Byond Username: BeeSting12
- Github Username: BeeSting12
- Location: 'Murica
Re: internal affair agents
Giving the murderboning IAAs no protection against admin intervention would be an acceptable solution also. Like not something shitty such as tossing a rod through him or deleteing/gibbing/BSAing, but sending out ERTs or deathsquads, or creating traitors with the murderboning IAA as the target would be allowed.Dr_bee wrote:Also I dont think muderboners in this mode should be handled via OOC admin communication and bans. It would be more fun and more interesting if the game master or admins reacted in character to the agents actions, so sure you can murderboner but centcom is going to get pissed and ERT you if you do it for long enough. Some simple RP guidelines for administration as well as a clear warning that agents is a mode where the admins are allowed to get involved in character will soften the blow of any agent who thinks admin action "ruined" their antag round. This would require the mode not to be rolled when there is no admin on however, unless some sort of automation could be coded.
edit: oops broke the quote
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- Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:26 pm
- Byond Username: KorPhaeron
Re: internal affair agents
ERTs can't fix that player nuking the engine roundstart or bombing medbay within 30 seconds and generally making it so that nobody else is going to get to do anything but wait for the shuttle.
ERTs also screw over the rest of the players in the game because now the round revolves around a handful of all access space marines who usually try and force a shuttle call.
ERTs also screw over the rest of the players in the game because now the round revolves around a handful of all access space marines who usually try and force a shuttle call.
- BeeSting12
- Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2016 1:11 am
- Byond Username: BeeSting12
- Github Username: BeeSting12
- Location: 'Murica
Re: internal affair agents
i mean yeah thats true and there's not much that can be done about that besides OOC restrictions placed on the antagonists.
- Atlanta-Ned
- In-Game Game Master
- Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 2:11 pm
- Byond Username: Atlanta-ned
Re: internal affair agents
There are only four rounds of Internal Affairs logged in the DB at the moment.CosmicScientist wrote:Hey, uh, Kor how has this gone since merging?
I'm interested to hear if this has gone well, since, uh, it's probably an improvement on the old DA just being traitor where the targets are traitors.
EDIT:
https://atlantaned.space/newSS13tools/r ... ound=69664
https://atlantaned.space/newSS13tools/r ... ound=69697
https://atlantaned.space/newSS13tools/r ... ound=69698
https://atlantaned.space/newSS13tools/r ... ound=69804
Statbus! | Admin Feedback
OOC: Pizzatiger: God damn Atlanta, how are you so fucking smart and charming. It fucking pisses me off how perfect you are
OOC: Pizzatiger: God damn Atlanta, how are you so fucking smart and charming. It fucking pisses me off how perfect you are
- Armhulen
- Global Moderator
- Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2016 4:30 pm
- Byond Username: Armhulenn
- Github Username: bazelart
- Location: The Grand Tournament
Re: internal affair agents
I played at least two of those as an iaa and I hated both rounds, even though I think I greentexted on both. It's just not fun getting your traitor stripped from you after you kill your target and wait to get murdered by another lad who will be sad about not getting to do anything.
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- Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 2:24 pm
- Byond Username: Jacough
Re: internal affair agents
XTDM had an interesting idea in this thread for traitors having overlapping objectives that could make for an interesting take on IAA/DA. Basically agents have the same theft objectives as each other but only the agent who actually escapes with the objective gets the greentext. The goal of the idea would be to create scenarios where what starts as a race for the objective turns into a game of cat and mouse with agents trying to hunt each other down for the item.
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- Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2014 5:13 am
- Byond Username: Lzimann
- Github Username: lzimann
Re: internal affair agents
Read the website name and the one who posted!CosmicScientist wrote:Haha. I'm surprised how much gets stored and in such a readable format. Someone did a beautiful job on this. Ta!Atlanta-Ned wrote:There are only four rounds of Internal Affairs logged in the DB at the moment.CosmicScientist wrote:Hey, uh, Kor how has this gone since merging?
I'm interested to hear if this has gone well, since, uh, it's probably an improvement on the old DA just being traitor where the targets are traitors.
EDIT:
https://atlantaned.space/newSS13tools/r ... ound=69664
https://atlantaned.space/newSS13tools/r ... ound=69697
https://atlantaned.space/newSS13tools/r ... ound=69698
https://atlantaned.space/newSS13tools/r ... ound=69804
- Oldman Robustin
- Joined: Tue May 13, 2014 2:18 pm
- Byond Username: ForcefulCJS
Re: internal affair agents
Since this idea is middling and I'm not even that excited about MY solutions, I'm slowly going to be adding limited traitor roles that work the way that DA should have.
As I'm working on the first set of heists, I will start putting together a traitor role that seeks to prevent these heists from succeeding. The heist-hunter won't have perfect intel about their targets or the planned heist, but enough to know where to start looking. Like the heist team, the heist-hunter will start with a limited TC budget - but will get more TC for completing their objectives. To avoid metagame issues, these heist-hunters will be a roughly 50% chance for every heist.
I have always felt it was silly that we would consider changing our core rules to try and "enforce" a new mode but we never even tried using IC-motivation to get people to at least do objectives before they slip back into mindless murderboning.
As I'm working on the first set of heists, I will start putting together a traitor role that seeks to prevent these heists from succeeding. The heist-hunter won't have perfect intel about their targets or the planned heist, but enough to know where to start looking. Like the heist team, the heist-hunter will start with a limited TC budget - but will get more TC for completing their objectives. To avoid metagame issues, these heist-hunters will be a roughly 50% chance for every heist.
I have always felt it was silly that we would consider changing our core rules to try and "enforce" a new mode but we never even tried using IC-motivation to get people to at least do objectives before they slip back into mindless murderboning.
- BeeSting12
- Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2016 1:11 am
- Byond Username: BeeSting12
- Github Username: BeeSting12
- Location: 'Murica
Re: internal affair agents
This PR is a step in the right direction: https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/26921
- Nilons
- Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2016 5:38 pm
- Byond Username: NIlons
- Location: Canada
Re: internal affair agents
Should limit an internal affairs agents tc items to sneaky shit instead of regular items
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