Bottom post of the previous page:
MRTY did the PR though, not goof.Chemistry macros
- D&B
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- Location: *teleports behind you*
- Deitus
- Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2015 5:26 pm
- Byond Username: Deitus
Re: Chemistry macros
>kevinz saying not to argue with goof because he wont listenoranges wrote:What in the christ are you talking about.Deitus wrote:the only funny (sad) thing is that head/admins constantly let you get away with this, but thats par for the course ive come to realize
Nowhere in your inconsistent fumbling rants, have you identified anyone even remotely responsible for `letting goof get away with`
jesus christ, do you have brain damage?
>kor just laughing
>no admins or maintainers keeping goof in check despite him constantly pulling bullshit
>goof resorts to calling us all retarded and providing nonarguments
>i bring up issues that he continually ignores
>"do you have brain damage?"
i dont know, do you?
-
- Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:26 pm
- Byond Username: KorPhaeron
Re: Chemistry macros
Goof didn't make the PR (though it was his code from months ago that he gave up on)
Goof didn't merge the PR
Goof just got off a month long git ban
Goof is still permabanned from OOC
You have no idea what you're talking about in any of your posts
Goof didn't merge the PR
Goof just got off a month long git ban
Goof is still permabanned from OOC
You have no idea what you're talking about in any of your posts
- yorii
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- Github Username: yorii
Re: Chemistry macros
Can Terry also get this merged? I haven't even tried this out yet...
- Floiven
- Joined: Fri Dec 01, 2017 11:20 pm
- Byond Username: Brak7000
Re: Chemistry macros
From someone that just picked up chemistry to try and learn it, this system, while convenient, seems like you're not playing it properly if you don't write out and copy/paste the macros to make things during a round. I spent around 30 mins or so stocking up the fridge during a round, when another chemist showed up (who was very friendly and helpful), and showed me that he could pump out hundreds of units of the meds that I spent a long time making near instantly.
Now, I'm all for cutting down clicks, as I have tendonitis from vidya, but perhaps a balance for this would be making the macro-based crafting have time for each step, slightly slower than someone making it all manually, allowing for someone experienced and practiced enough to outpace the machine doing the sequence by itself.
I'm not a fan of the 'gotchya' system of the meds interacting with each other in a negative way, unless it's made apparent on the drugs description somewhere, because that seems like a trap a lot of people are going to fall into unless they're keeping up with the wiki/github like I am, and I already see barely any medical doctors in the rounds I play.
Another option that I recall someone mentioning was making a larger container (like a stationary cauldron or something) that would allow you to mix larger amounts of chems at once, that would effectively allow for mass production of needed things while cutting down the steps as well.
Now, I'm all for cutting down clicks, as I have tendonitis from vidya, but perhaps a balance for this would be making the macro-based crafting have time for each step, slightly slower than someone making it all manually, allowing for someone experienced and practiced enough to outpace the machine doing the sequence by itself.
I'm not a fan of the 'gotchya' system of the meds interacting with each other in a negative way, unless it's made apparent on the drugs description somewhere, because that seems like a trap a lot of people are going to fall into unless they're keeping up with the wiki/github like I am, and I already see barely any medical doctors in the rounds I play.
Another option that I recall someone mentioning was making a larger container (like a stationary cauldron or something) that would allow you to mix larger amounts of chems at once, that would effectively allow for mass production of needed things while cutting down the steps as well.
- yorii
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- Github Username: yorii
Re: Chemistry macros
It's called stealing the space cleaner bottle at round start.Floiven wrote:Another option that I recall someone mentioning was making a larger container (like a stationary cauldron or something) that would allow you to mix larger amounts of chems at once, that would effectively allow for mass production of needed things while cutting down the steps as well.
- Floiven
- Joined: Fri Dec 01, 2017 11:20 pm
- Byond Username: Brak7000
Re: Chemistry macros
Just recalled there being one in the med break room. Good idea.yorii wrote:It's called stealing the space cleaner bottle at round start.Floiven wrote:Another option that I recall someone mentioning was making a larger container (like a stationary cauldron or something) that would allow you to mix larger amounts of chems at once, that would effectively allow for mass production of needed things while cutting down the steps as well.
- Deitus
- Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2015 5:26 pm
- Byond Username: Deitus
Re: Chemistry macros
goof continues to be terrible and those who should be keeping him in check continue to roll over and let him, give him wrist slaps, or outright defend him. thats all i really need to know about coderbus and the administration.Kor wrote: You have no idea what you're talking about in any of your posts
- iamgoofball
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- Byond Username: Iamgoofball
- Github Username: Iamgoofball
Re: Chemistry macros
Fwoosh alt?Deitus wrote:goof continues to be terrible and those who should be keeping him in check continue to roll over and let him, give him wrist slaps, or outright defend him. thats all i really need to know about coderbus and the administration.Kor wrote: You have no idea what you're talking about in any of your posts
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- Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2017 11:11 am
- Byond Username: Serpentarium
Re: Chemistry macros
If it got merged, we need drug rework. To encourage more complex compounds of several reagents.
- Dax Dupont
- In-Game Admin
- Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2014 9:07 pm
- Byond Username: DaxYeen
- Github Username: DaxDupont
- Location: Belgium
Re: Chemistry macros
Some stations have two in medbayFloiven wrote: Just recalled there being one in the med break room. Good idea.
- oranges
- Code Maintainer
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- Byond Username: Optimumtact
- Github Username: optimumtact
- Location: #CHATSHITGETBANGED
Re: Chemistry macros
>he's posting mean things at me, why won't the administration do anythingDeitus wrote:goof continues to be terrible and those who should be keeping him in check continue to roll over and let him, give him wrist slaps, or outright defend him. thats all i really need to know about coderbus and the administration.Kor wrote: You have no idea what you're talking about in any of your posts
lmao deitus deletus
- darkpaladin109
- Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2015 6:48 pm
- Byond Username: Darkpaladin109
- Location: MM8BDM, MM5NAP
Re: Chemistry macros
I hope something gets changed about this - it seems really overpowered on paper, one of the major things that balanced dangerous chems was that you needed to spend time making them. Add some kinda timer for the mixing that gets longer the more complex the recipe you're making is or something.
- Hathkar
- Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2017 12:41 am
- Byond Username: Hathkar
Re: Chemistry macros
I tried out a few macros, and it honestly makes things far far too easy. I shouldn't be able to just instantly make complex chems in one button push, when it would take a minute or two to make normally.
At the very least, have the minimum chem amount be 5 units.
At the very least, have the minimum chem amount be 5 units.
- kevinz000
- Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2014 8:41 am
- Byond Username: Kevinz000
- Github Username: kevinz000
- Location: Dorm Room 3
Re: Chemistry macros
Yorii is now attempting to add the ability for macros to remove chemicals
At what point do we realize it's time to stop?
At what point do we realize it's time to stop?
Local catgirl scratching post - Shezza
Usually seen as Skylar Lineman/Mekhi Anderson.
Commissions way too much art...
https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 7&p=239075 - IN GAME ADMINISTRATOR
Usually seen as Skylar Lineman/Mekhi Anderson.
Commissions way too much art...
https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 7&p=239075 - IN GAME ADMINISTRATOR
NSFW:
- Swagbringer
- Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2016 9:08 pm
- Byond Username: Swagbringer
Re: Chemistry macros
I have noticed that Chemists are now able to produce morphine (Not sure when this was introduced).
I think the actual macros are fine, but its the output where the issue lies. The chemicals chemists cannot access roundstart are currently: Uranium and gold. Thats literally it, and the majority of the products it makes from these two chemicals are for virology or niche.
A refactoring of chemistry formulas would be a good idea in my opinion. All the simple ingested medicine like bicaridine should be the same but any "fire and forget" medicine like mutadone or calomel (seriously there are way too many types of medicine, two for each type of damage is more than enough imo) will require liquid uranium, gold, silver, plasma etc that can be got from mining. If making the station even more reliant on mining isnt an option then they should be able to get them from botany(Botany can already produce Uranium, Gold, and Morphine and now the botany/chemist relationship wouldnt be so one-sided)
Same deal with poisons/explosives. Potassium grenades are fine, but you need botany for corn oil and nitroglycerin. Simple toxins will still be available, but putting napalm/phlogiston/blackpowder one-shot deathmixes behind a gate would be a good idea. I can literally make a syringe that will down a fully geared HoS in 10 seconds from the DING noise roundstart.
I think the actual macros are fine, but its the output where the issue lies. The chemicals chemists cannot access roundstart are currently: Uranium and gold. Thats literally it, and the majority of the products it makes from these two chemicals are for virology or niche.
A refactoring of chemistry formulas would be a good idea in my opinion. All the simple ingested medicine like bicaridine should be the same but any "fire and forget" medicine like mutadone or calomel (seriously there are way too many types of medicine, two for each type of damage is more than enough imo) will require liquid uranium, gold, silver, plasma etc that can be got from mining. If making the station even more reliant on mining isnt an option then they should be able to get them from botany(Botany can already produce Uranium, Gold, and Morphine and now the botany/chemist relationship wouldnt be so one-sided)
Same deal with poisons/explosives. Potassium grenades are fine, but you need botany for corn oil and nitroglycerin. Simple toxins will still be available, but putting napalm/phlogiston/blackpowder one-shot deathmixes behind a gate would be a good idea. I can literally make a syringe that will down a fully geared HoS in 10 seconds from the DING noise roundstart.
- CPTANT
- Joined: Mon May 04, 2015 1:31 pm
- Byond Username: CPTANT
Re: Chemistry macros
I think this also has the same problem as telescience had.
It promotes people developing external tools that will give large advantages when used in game.
How long until someone creates a third party tool that just outputs macro's for all the (available) chemicals you want?
People say memorizing the manual is also external work, but at that at least still forces you to manually mix everything together.
It promotes people developing external tools that will give large advantages when used in game.
How long until someone creates a third party tool that just outputs macro's for all the (available) chemicals you want?
People say memorizing the manual is also external work, but at that at least still forces you to manually mix everything together.
Timberpoes wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:21 pm The rules exist to create the biggest possible chance of a cool shift of SS13. They don't exist to allow admins to create the most boring interpretation of SS13.
- Luke Cox
- Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2014 8:52 am
- Byond Username: NocturnalQuill
- Location: Prisoner Transfer Room
- CPTANT
- Joined: Mon May 04, 2015 1:31 pm
- Byond Username: CPTANT
Re: Chemistry macros
Memorizing is faster than looking it up? But who cares, both don't come even close to the amount of automation possible with macro's.Luke Cox wrote:You mean people don't just have the wiki article open when they play chem?
Timberpoes wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:21 pm The rules exist to create the biggest possible chance of a cool shift of SS13. They don't exist to allow admins to create the most boring interpretation of SS13.
- CPTANT
- Joined: Mon May 04, 2015 1:31 pm
- Byond Username: CPTANT
Re: Chemistry macros
What is the original PR that added chemistry macros btw? I can't seem to find it.
Timberpoes wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:21 pm The rules exist to create the biggest possible chance of a cool shift of SS13. They don't exist to allow admins to create the most boring interpretation of SS13.
- kevinz000
- Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2014 8:41 am
- Byond Username: Kevinz000
- Github Username: kevinz000
- Location: Dorm Room 3
Re: Chemistry macros
i'm tempted to make one to prove a point at this pointCPTANT wrote:I think this also has the same problem as telescience had.
It promotes people developing external tools that will give large advantages when used in game.
How long until someone creates a third party tool that just outputs macro's for all the (available) chemicals you want?
People say memorizing the manual is also external work, but at that at least still forces you to manually mix everything together.
Local catgirl scratching post - Shezza
Usually seen as Skylar Lineman/Mekhi Anderson.
Commissions way too much art...
https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 7&p=239075 - IN GAME ADMINISTRATOR
Usually seen as Skylar Lineman/Mekhi Anderson.
Commissions way too much art...
https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 7&p=239075 - IN GAME ADMINISTRATOR
NSFW:
- TribeOfBeavers
- In-Game Game Master
- Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:54 pm
- Byond Username: TribeOfBeavers
- Location: Canada
Re: Chemistry macros
It was a mrty PR. As they were banned by github none of their PRs are visible.CPTANT wrote:What is the original PR that added chemistry macros btw? I can't seem to find it.
- cedarbridge
- Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 12:24 am
- Byond Username: Cedarbridge
Re: Chemistry macros
We're not too far off from turn-based combat at this point.CPTANT wrote:I think this also has the same problem as telescience had.
It promotes people developing external tools that will give large advantages when used in game.
How long until someone creates a third party tool that just outputs macro's for all the (available) chemicals you want?
People say memorizing the manual is also external work, but at that at least still forces you to manually mix everything together.
- Dax Dupont
- In-Game Admin
- Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2014 9:07 pm
- Byond Username: DaxYeen
- Github Username: DaxDupont
- Location: Belgium
Re: Chemistry macros
I kinda want to do that just to drive a point home.CPTANT wrote:I think this also has the same problem as telescience had.
It promotes people developing external tools that will give large advantages when used in game.
How long until someone creates a third party tool that just outputs macro's for all the (available) chemicals you want?
People say memorizing the manual is also external work, but at that at least still forces you to manually mix everything together.
- CPTANT
- Joined: Mon May 04, 2015 1:31 pm
- Byond Username: CPTANT
Re: Chemistry macros
Hidding merged PR's because the author was banned seems rather.....dumb.TribeOfBeavers wrote:It was a mrty PR. As they were banned by github none of their PRs are visible.CPTANT wrote:What is the original PR that added chemistry macros btw? I can't seem to find it.
edit: wait they were banned by github themself or just from our repo?
Timberpoes wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:21 pm The rules exist to create the biggest possible chance of a cool shift of SS13. They don't exist to allow admins to create the most boring interpretation of SS13.
- TribeOfBeavers
- In-Game Game Master
- Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:54 pm
- Byond Username: TribeOfBeavers
- Location: Canada
Re: Chemistry macros
Banned by github for having multiple accounts/evading, I believe.CPTANT wrote:Hidding merged PR's because the author was banned seems rather.....dumb.TribeOfBeavers wrote:It was a mrty PR. As they were banned by github none of their PRs are visible.CPTANT wrote:What is the original PR that added chemistry macros btw? I can't seem to find it.
edit: wait they were banned by github themself or just from our repo?
- CPTANT
- Joined: Mon May 04, 2015 1:31 pm
- Byond Username: CPTANT
Re: Chemistry macros
So that just wipes out a part of our PR history?TribeOfBeavers wrote:Banned by github for having multiple accounts/evading, I believe.CPTANT wrote:Hidding merged PR's because the author was banned seems rather.....dumb.TribeOfBeavers wrote:It was a mrty PR. As they were banned by github none of their PRs are visible.CPTANT wrote:What is the original PR that added chemistry macros btw? I can't seem to find it.
edit: wait they were banned by github themself or just from our repo?
Timberpoes wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:21 pm The rules exist to create the biggest possible chance of a cool shift of SS13. They don't exist to allow admins to create the most boring interpretation of SS13.
- Armhulen
- Global Moderator
- Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2016 4:30 pm
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- Github Username: bazelart
- Location: The Grand Tournament
Re: Chemistry macros
basicallyCPTANT wrote:So that just wipes out a part of our PR history?TribeOfBeavers wrote:Banned by github for having multiple accounts/evading, I believe.CPTANT wrote:Hidding merged PR's because the author was banned seems rather.....dumb.TribeOfBeavers wrote:It was a mrty PR. As they were banned by github none of their PRs are visible.CPTANT wrote:What is the original PR that added chemistry macros btw? I can't seem to find it.
edit: wait they were banned by github themself or just from our repo?
- Denton
- Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2017 3:53 pm
- Byond Username: Denton-30
- Github Username: 81Denton
Re: Chemistry macros
You're acting as if chemical recipes were hard to memorize. For some odd reason, the deadliest chems are super easy to mix as well.CPTANT wrote:How long until someone creates a third party tool that just outputs macro's for all the (available) chemicals you want?
I can't think of a solution other than a rework though, the only thing that slows down an experienced chemist is how much he has to interact with laggy TGUI.
- yorii
- Github User
- Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:13 am
- Byond Username: Yorpan
- Github Username: yorii
Re: Chemistry macros
It has already been reworked, dispensers are now upgradeable and the roundstart components can only dispense 5u of any reagent. You need to get femtomanipulators for most of the more advanced macros to properly work.Denton wrote:You're acting as if chemical recipes were hard to memorize. For some odd reason, the deadliest chems are super easy to mix as well.CPTANT wrote:How long until someone creates a third party tool that just outputs macro's for all the (available) chemicals you want?
I can't think of a solution other than a rework though, the only thing that slows down an experienced chemist is how much he has to interact with laggy TGUI.
-
- Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2017 11:11 am
- Byond Username: Serpentarium
Re: Chemistry macros
TBH,most fun thing with macro is inventing huge ass macros to brew very complex things.
So, it either should be without restrictions, or completely removed.
So, it either should be without restrictions, or completely removed.
- CPTANT
- Joined: Mon May 04, 2015 1:31 pm
- Byond Username: CPTANT
Re: Chemistry macros
Even if you memorize the recipes (which you can only do for a select few) than mixing things together still took considerably longer than just instant macro.Denton wrote:You're acting as if chemical recipes were hard to memorize. For some odd reason, the deadliest chems are super easy to mix as well.CPTANT wrote:How long until someone creates a third party tool that just outputs macro's for all the (available) chemicals you want?
I can't think of a solution other than a rework though, the only thing that slows down an experienced chemist is how much he has to interact with laggy TGUI.
But I agree that chemistry recipe balance was shit to begin with.
Timberpoes wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:21 pm The rules exist to create the biggest possible chance of a cool shift of SS13. They don't exist to allow admins to create the most boring interpretation of SS13.
- Bluespace
- Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 1:04 pm
- Byond Username: Bluespace
- Location: UK
Re: Chemistry macros
despite macros being in the game, chemistry is still as fucking useless as ever.
- Cobby
- Code Maintainer
- Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2014 7:19 pm
- Byond Username: ExcessiveUseOfCobby
- Github Username: ExcessiveUseOfCobblestone
Re: Chemistry macros
What do you mean by that because the medbay mains QQ'd about being forever reliant on chemistry.Bluespace wrote:despite macros being in the game, chemistry is still as fucking useless as ever.
Voted best trap in /tg/ 2014-current
- Bluespace
- Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 1:04 pm
- Byond Username: Bluespace
- Location: UK
Re: Chemistry macros
>check smartfridgeCobby wrote:What do you mean by that because the medbay mains QQ'd about being forever reliant on chemistry.Bluespace wrote:despite macros being in the game, chemistry is still as fucking useless as ever.
>nothing
>this happens 9/10 rounds
sometimes there is 5 patches of tricord in there but usually chemistry just fucking sits there and makes meth for themselves.
whenever i need to get healed i have to go and beg someone to sleeper me since all the medkits have been jacked and the doctor are sitting in surgery furiously jacking off.
at least they make unstable mutagen for the hydro folks first, but they're useless beyond that.
- Mark9013100
- Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2014 6:06 pm
- Byond Username: Mark9013100
Re: Chemistry macros
People need to be more aggressive about getting chemistry to make meds, CMOs in particular need to use their authority(baton) more often to deal with shitty lazy chemists.
- Denton
- Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2017 3:53 pm
- Byond Username: Denton-30
- Github Username: 81Denton
Re: Chemistry macros
I meant as in there is no real difficulty to chemistry, only memorizing recipes and what each reagent is good for. Unlike mining where you fight fauna, security where you wrangle the clown etc.yorii wrote:It has already been reworked, dispensers are now upgradeable and the roundstart components can only dispense 5u of any reagent. You need to get femtomanipulators for most of the more advanced macros to properly work.
- yorii
- Github User
- Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:13 am
- Byond Username: Yorpan
- Github Username: yorii
Re: Chemistry macros
Well, chemistry is after all the go-to role for new players and which is also recommended by the wiki for beginners, I think they are basically meant to be living chemical dispensers for a good reason.Denton wrote:I meant as in there is no real difficulty to chemistry, only memorizing recipes and what each reagent is good for. Unlike mining where you fight fauna, security where you wrangle the clown etc.yorii wrote:It has already been reworked, dispensers are now upgradeable and the roundstart components can only dispense 5u of any reagent. You need to get femtomanipulators for most of the more advanced macros to properly work.
- Shaps-cloud
- Code Maintainer
- Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2014 4:25 am
- Byond Username: Shaps
Re: Chemistry macros
That was during the change to sleepers, how can every single one of your posts on these topics be so completely off baseCobby wrote:What do you mean by that because the medbay mains QQ'd about being forever reliant on chemistry.Bluespace wrote:despite macros being in the game, chemistry is still as fucking useless as ever.
- Cobby
- Code Maintainer
- Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2014 7:19 pm
- Byond Username: ExcessiveUseOfCobby
- Github Username: ExcessiveUseOfCobblestone
Re: Chemistry macros
Game changes can't be compartmentalized and they have potential effects in other areas (in this situation, the change to sleepers made chemistry more reliant).Shaps-cloud wrote:That was during the change to sleepers, how can every single one of your posts on these topics be so completely off baseCobby wrote:What do you mean by that because the medbay mains QQ'd about being forever reliant on chemistry.Bluespace wrote:despite macros being in the game, chemistry is still as fucking useless as ever.
I was asking how chemistry is useless but also allegedly becoming more and more a staple part of medical, especially after this change which individuals argued. I don't see how a question, although it has a provocative tone, can even be off base?
Personally it's a bit odd to give "newbies" the job of chemistry when they can't even apply the chems correctly as MD. To me, it would make sense to make MD the newbie job as it has been rather then Chemistry, which requires MD knowledge to know how to be effective (besides copypasta of the wiki ofc).yorii wrote:Well, chemistry is after all the go-to role for new players and which is also recommended by the wiki for beginners, I think they are basically meant to be living chemical dispensers for a good reason.Denton wrote:I meant as in there is no real difficulty to chemistry, only memorizing recipes and what each reagent is good for. Unlike mining where you fight fauna, security where you wrangle the clown etc.yorii wrote:It has already been reworked, dispensers are now upgradeable and the roundstart components can only dispense 5u of any reagent. You need to get femtomanipulators for most of the more advanced macros to properly work.
Voted best trap in /tg/ 2014-current
- cedarbridge
- Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 12:24 am
- Byond Username: Cedarbridge
Re: Chemistry macros
What if we made a role for new players where they could assist players in more complex roles and learn from them and assist with various errands and tasks. We could call them "assistants" to keep it simple.Cobby wrote:Personally it's a bit odd to give "newbies" the job of chemistry when they can't even apply the chems correctly as MD. To me, it would make sense to make MD the newbie job as it has been rather then Chemistry, which requires MD knowledge to know how to be effective (besides copypasta of the wiki ofc).
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