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I have ling enabled because if I get it then there's one less ling to absorb me in maintREMOVE LING remove ling
- Lazengann
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- Yakumo_Chen
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Re: REMOVE LING remove ling
Every time I play ling I will at some point at least entertain the idea of outing all my buddies to security so that the round has less lings, if not go through with it. Most rounds I'm ling at least one of them will have some plan to murderbone or do shuttle-call-tier shit (bombs, etc) so I'm happy to be rid of them
Oh except that one round where I told an officer to incinerate a "suspected ling" without outing myself and he spent the rest of the round autisticallly watching me to "prove" I was one too so I couldn't even do anything fun.
Oh except that one round where I told an officer to incinerate a "suspected ling" without outing myself and he spent the rest of the round autisticallly watching me to "prove" I was one too so I couldn't even do anything fun.
- InsaneHyena
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Re: REMOVE LING remove ling
I've tried, but coderbus disagreed.Fatal wrote:If nothing else, remove the team chat and stop lings being a team murder mode at the very least
Every time I see lings it's basically a team mode because, why wouldn't they use that advantage
- Armhulen
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Re: REMOVE LING remove ling
that's like not playing wizard because you hate wizardRustledjimm wrote:Can I just repeat here that I hate ling and it's the only antag I have refused to ever play.
Please nerf. I don't have any input or ideas sorry because I've played it once about 3 years ago and never touched it since but I'm just asking nicely can we please nerf it somehow.
the only reason people tolerate it is because eventually you get to be the epic spell man
- ohnopigeons
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Re: REMOVE LING remove ling
Or maybe you're comparing apple to oranges and playing ling isn't that epic.
- Luke Cox
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Re: REMOVE LING remove ling
Lings can be frustrating, but do you guys really die to them that often? The traitors usually end up being way more dangerous in traitorchan rounds in my experience. I don't think I've actually died to a ling in months.
- ShadowDimentio
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Re: REMOVE LING remove ling
Wizards are infinitely more fun to fight than lings because wizards, while strong as hell, are the loudest antag we have and is pretty much outed the moment they step on the station. Lings meanwhile are roughly as good as wizards, there's 2-5 of them in a round, AND they're practically undetectable.Armhulen wrote:that's like not playing wizard because you hate wizardRustledjimm wrote:Can I just repeat here that I hate ling and it's the only antag I have refused to ever play.
Please nerf. I don't have any input or ideas sorry because I've played it once about 3 years ago and never touched it since but I'm just asking nicely can we please nerf it somehow.
the only reason people tolerate it is because eventually you get to be the epic spell man
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Re: REMOVE LING remove ling
Much simpler idea
Three categories of ling abilities, Combat, Stealth, and Regenerative
If take an ability from any category, all abilities in any other categories go up in price by 1
So if you take armblade, armor, shield, screech, etc (all combat abilities), it costs what it usually does, but if you try to take armblade, fleshmend, biodegrade (a combat, regenerative, and stealth ability), you're now down 2 more points than you'd usually be. This encourages specialization and makes it so mixing all the optimal powers and getting the best of every world isn't really doable.
Three categories of ling abilities, Combat, Stealth, and Regenerative
If take an ability from any category, all abilities in any other categories go up in price by 1
So if you take armblade, armor, shield, screech, etc (all combat abilities), it costs what it usually does, but if you try to take armblade, fleshmend, biodegrade (a combat, regenerative, and stealth ability), you're now down 2 more points than you'd usually be. This encourages specialization and makes it so mixing all the optimal powers and getting the best of every world isn't really doable.
i play Lauser McMauligan. clown name is Cold-Ass Honkey
i have three other top secret characters as well.
tell the best admin how good he is
i have three other top secret characters as well.
tell the best admin how good he is
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Re: REMOVE LING remove ling
That's really good actually. Way simpler than my ability tree idea.PKPenguin321 wrote:Much simpler idea
Three categories of ling abilities, Combat, Stealth, and Regenerative
If take an ability from any category, all abilities in any other categories go up in price by 1
So if you take armblade, armor, shield, screech, etc (all combat abilities), it costs what it usually does, but if you try to take armblade, fleshmend, biodegrade (a combat, regenerative, and stealth ability), you're now down 2 more points than you'd usually be. This encourages specialization and makes it so mixing all the optimal powers and getting the best of every world isn't really doable.
- captain sawrge
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Re: REMOVE LING remove ling
just make them either all combat or all stealth it seems like the biggest problem is the identity crisis
oldling was bad for another plethora of reasons (boring, long rounds of being parastung and sucked until no one but lings was left) but it at least had its own identity. lings weren't terribly strong in combat but they had sneaky abilities to confuse people and make them scary one on one especially if they got the drop on you.
if you wanna move away from that then give them the strong combat stuff and nix the invisible poisons and stings. make lings be able to activate tentacles and blades and be this beasts of combat but they need to stop and recharge (maybe limit or remove passive chem generation by amount of absorptions so they need to keep accumulating biomass)
make them loud and obvious but they need to balance chem usage and keep absorping to get new disguises
oldling was bad for another plethora of reasons (boring, long rounds of being parastung and sucked until no one but lings was left) but it at least had its own identity. lings weren't terribly strong in combat but they had sneaky abilities to confuse people and make them scary one on one especially if they got the drop on you.
if you wanna move away from that then give them the strong combat stuff and nix the invisible poisons and stings. make lings be able to activate tentacles and blades and be this beasts of combat but they need to stop and recharge (maybe limit or remove passive chem generation by amount of absorptions so they need to keep accumulating biomass)
make them loud and obvious but they need to balance chem usage and keep absorping to get new disguises
- captain sawrge
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Re: REMOVE LING remove ling
or just like nix the evolution shop and give em 2-4 random evolutions (maybe u get to pick from 2/3 fr each one) so people have to think on their feet a little more and work with their builds
- ShadowDimentio
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Re: REMOVE LING remove ling
Newling is just all of the above but harder. I liked that parasting was basically their only offensive ability, it made it so they were unbeatable in 1v1 but in groups the ling didn't stand a chance. Oldling was the closest we've ever been to a stealth antag.captain sawrge wrote:oldling was bad for another plethora of reasons (boring, long rounds of being parastung and sucked until no one but lings was left) but it at least had its own identity. lings weren't terribly strong in combat but they had sneaky abilities to confuse people and make them scary one on one especially if they got the drop on you.
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Re: REMOVE LING remove ling
Problem being parasting had no tells at all. basically leading to people getting dragged into maint in the middle of crowds. Unlike goonstation's neurotoxin sting you didnt even get the ability to shout for help. It was very unfun to fight against, even with a group. Also Lings even back then were deadly as they usually had para and cryo sting, and could easily disable 2 people while fighting the third.ShadowDimentio wrote:Newling is just all of the above but harder. I liked that parasting was basically their only offensive ability, it made it so they were unbeatable in 1v1 but in groups the ling didn't stand a chance. Oldling was the closest we've ever been to a stealth antag.captain sawrge wrote:oldling was bad for another plethora of reasons (boring, long rounds of being parastung and sucked until no one but lings was left) but it at least had its own identity. lings weren't terribly strong in combat but they had sneaky abilities to confuse people and make them scary one on one especially if they got the drop on you.
even back then they were fucking shit to fight against. thats why parasting was removed in the first place.
- Luke Cox
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Re: REMOVE LING remove ling
This may be controversial, but what if we removed hidden stings entirely?
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Re: REMOVE LING remove ling
I don't really think those are the issue.Luke Cox wrote:This may be controversial, but what if we removed hidden stings entirely?
i play Lauser McMauligan. clown name is Cold-Ass Honkey
i have three other top secret characters as well.
tell the best admin how good he is
i have three other top secret characters as well.
tell the best admin how good he is
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Re: REMOVE LING remove ling
Biggest issue is the fucking comms and free revives. Remove those and ling might be somewhat balanced.PKPenguin321 wrote:I don't really think those are the issue.Luke Cox wrote:This may be controversial, but what if we removed hidden stings entirely?
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Re: REMOVE LING remove ling
Worry not any PR to readd parasting will be rejected without debate. Ling was even less popular when they had that and I'm not gonna fall for nostalgia.Dr_bee wrote:Problem being parasting had no tells at all. basically leading to people getting dragged into maint in the middle of crowds. Unlike goonstation's neurotoxin sting you didnt even get the ability to shout for help. It was very unfun to fight against, even with a group. Also Lings even back then were deadly as they usually had para and cryo sting, and could easily disable 2 people while fighting the third.ShadowDimentio wrote:Newling is just all of the above but harder. I liked that parasting was basically their only offensive ability, it made it so they were unbeatable in 1v1 but in groups the ling didn't stand a chance. Oldling was the closest we've ever been to a stealth antag.captain sawrge wrote:oldling was bad for another plethora of reasons (boring, long rounds of being parastung and sucked until no one but lings was left) but it at least had its own identity. lings weren't terribly strong in combat but they had sneaky abilities to confuse people and make them scary one on one especially if they got the drop on you.
even back then they were fucking shit to fight against. thats why parasting was removed in the first place.
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Re: REMOVE LING remove ling
They sadly lack any reason to kill eachother anymore outside of antag objectives, in the past you could easily get an absurd amount of genomes off of killing other lings but that isn't a mechanic anymore.Kor wrote:Lings need to be directed to kill one another again or they need to lose the hivemind or yeah far fewer numbers.
- Luke Cox
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Re: REMOVE LING remove ling
The revives are fine if the crew aren't fucking retards who can't figure out how to space something or dump it into a gibber. The comms are a problem.Dr_bee wrote:Biggest issue is the fucking comms and free revives. Remove those and ling might be somewhat balanced.PKPenguin321 wrote:I don't really think those are the issue.Luke Cox wrote:This may be controversial, but what if we removed hidden stings entirely?
- Yakumo_Chen
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Re: REMOVE LING remove ling
Space loops you straight back on station most of the time and is generally considered a completely fucking retarded move since the ling will just revive and come back.
The gibber can be armbladed and often is. The only reliable way is shuttlecrush which either gives the ling a chance to revive or gives you the chance to die in a stupid way to the same thing.
Lings are hard to kill in the first place so RE-killing a ling becomes an extremely tedious (and hazardous) chore when it can just press a reset button and run away again.
The gibber can be armbladed and often is. The only reliable way is shuttlecrush which either gives the ling a chance to revive or gives you the chance to die in a stupid way to the same thing.
Lings are hard to kill in the first place so RE-killing a ling becomes an extremely tedious (and hazardous) chore when it can just press a reset button and run away again.
- ShadowDimentio
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Re: REMOVE LING remove ling
Except lings have a space suit now and space loops so if you throw a ling out an airlock it's just going to come back and kill you in five minutes.Luke Cox wrote:The revives are fine if the crew aren't fucking retards who can't figure out how to space something or dump it into a gibber. The comms are a problem.
Reviving needs to revive the ling at 1 health and use all their chems, I've had lings revive on the way to the gibber, instantly melt the cuffs and sprint away with methspeed before anyone can stop them. It's fucking gay.
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- Luke Cox
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Re: REMOVE LING remove ling
I'll give you the spacing bit, but you can also just dump them into the xenobio pen.Yakumo_Chen wrote:Space loops you straight back on station most of the time and is generally considered a completely fucking retarded move since the ling will just revive and come back.
The gibber can be armbladed and often is. The only reliable way is shuttlecrush which either gives the ling a chance to revive or gives you the chance to die in a stupid way to the same thing.
Lings are hard to kill in the first place so RE-killing a ling becomes an extremely tedious (and hazardous) chore when it can just press a reset button and run away again.
I'm fine with just about any ling nerf but I will defend the indefinite revive till my last. Braindead assistants can't just toolbox them to death like they can traitors. They actually have to use their brains to kill the ling. Security can easily gib them with the labor camp shuttle, and if you honestly get yourself killed doing it, consider it natural selection.ShadowDimentio wrote:Except lings have a space suit now and space loops so if you throw a ling out an airlock it's just going to come back and kill you in five minutes.Luke Cox wrote:The revives are fine if the crew aren't fucking retards who can't figure out how to space something or dump it into a gibber. The comms are a problem.
Reviving needs to revive the ling at 1 health and use all their chems, I've had lings revive on the way to the gibber, instantly melt the cuffs and sprint away with methspeed before anyone can stop them. It's fucking gay.
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- Yakumo_Chen
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Re: REMOVE LING remove ling
the ling revive timer is so incredibly short that if I don't hold them down while trying to crush them (which will invariably drag me down into space with it), that they'll often get back up as I'm trying to gib them. Gibbing them is just incredibly annoying to do and not very fun for anyone except the ling.I'm fine with just about any ling nerf but I will defend the indefinite revive till my last. Braindead assistants can't just toolbox them to death like they can traitors. They actually have to use their brains to kill the ling. Security can easily gib them with the labor camp shuttle, and if you honestly get yourself killed doing it, consider it natural selection.
- Luke Cox
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Re: REMOVE LING remove ling
I wouldn't mind seeing the revive timer increased a bit, but agian, if you honestly can't find a way to gib a body in SS13 the problem is you.
- The Clowns Pocket
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Re: REMOVE LING remove ling
If anyone is seriously pining of the days of oldling then I want to punch them in the face. No, oldling was shit and one of the worst things to play against. Being parastung and then dragged into a dark corner of maint or coming back from AFK to be nothing more then a husk was not fun, it was terrible. "They were good in one vs ones!" is also terrible because they weren't just *good* in 1v1s, they were fucking stupid. They also had a tough ass learning curve for people who dont know how to quickly grab and while currentlings may be kinda pathetically weak I'd happily take a role that's at least fun to greif as over one that outright encourages powergaming.
And speaking of which... if you want a heavy nerf to lings (still?) all you really need to do is give them objectives to kill one another (randomly!) or just cut the hive channel completely. Honestly, I personally enjoy selling out my fellow lings even if it means being stuck in the pen at Xenobio. They arn't team antags so it's fair game! Alternatively you could revamp them but like, that would require work! And code! And we all know how important it is that we do super minor fixes to shit and dumb things like moodlets rather then important game changes!
And speaking of which... if you want a heavy nerf to lings (still?) all you really need to do is give them objectives to kill one another (randomly!) or just cut the hive channel completely. Honestly, I personally enjoy selling out my fellow lings even if it means being stuck in the pen at Xenobio. They arn't team antags so it's fair game! Alternatively you could revamp them but like, that would require work! And code! And we all know how important it is that we do super minor fixes to shit and dumb things like moodlets rather then important game changes!
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Re: REMOVE LING remove ling
When the freeze is over I'm going to make fire cancel revives, absorbing lings give you a higher point cap in the power menu, and personal hiveminds that only function if you use the "grant hivemind" power on someone.
- SpaceInaba
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Re: REMOVE LING remove ling
time to bust out the epic atmos tech ling murderfuck pneumatic fire cannon I have been teamkilling lings for months I am so ready
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Re: REMOVE LING remove ling
Idea: replace lings with wizards (yes, multiple. probably not mixed with traitors because that would be even more of a shitfest); they're more fun both to play as and to fight.ShadowDimentio wrote:Wizards are infinitely more fun to fight than lings because wizards, while strong as hell, are the loudest antag we have and is pretty much outed the moment they step on the station. Lings meanwhile are roughly as good as wizards, there's 2-5 of them in a round, AND they're practically undetectable.Armhulen wrote:that's like not playing wizard because you hate wizardRustledjimm wrote:Can I just repeat here that I hate ling and it's the only antag I have refused to ever play.
Please nerf. I don't have any input or ideas sorry because I've played it once about 3 years ago and never touched it since but I'm just asking nicely can we please nerf it somehow.
the only reason people tolerate it is because eventually you get to be the epic spell man
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Re: REMOVE LING remove ling
This was had as a gamemode once, it really isnt fun. Wizards are very powerful alone but obnoxiously strong when there was more than onesomerandomguy wrote: Idea: replace lings with wizards (yes, multiple. probably not mixed with traitors because that would be even more of a shitfest); they're more fun both to play as and to fight.
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Re: REMOVE LING remove ling
the return of raging magin
- Luke Cox
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Re: REMOVE LING remove ling
Latter two sound great, but fully canceling a revive with just a little fire seems excessive. Just nerf the ability to what it used to be (90 seconds I think)Kor wrote:When the freeze is over I'm going to make fire cancel revives, absorbing lings give you a higher point cap in the power menu, and personal hiveminds that only function if you use the "grant hivemind" power on someone.
- PKPenguin321
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Re: REMOVE LING remove ling
Yeah, tripling (or doubling or whatever) the revive time and halving chem regen rate while on fire would be better IMO since the chem regen hit would also be effective against not-dead lings.
i play Lauser McMauligan. clown name is Cold-Ass Honkey
i have three other top secret characters as well.
tell the best admin how good he is
i have three other top secret characters as well.
tell the best admin how good he is
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- Lumbermancer
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Re: REMOVE LING remove ling
>be AI
>ling EMP's in the teleporter room
>50% hp gone
>disabled forever
good design
>ling EMP's in the teleporter room
>50% hp gone
>disabled forever
good design
- CPTANT
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Re: REMOVE LING remove ling
Ling should be a progression based side antag.
/thread
/thread
Timberpoes wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:21 pm The rules exist to create the biggest possible chance of a cool shift of SS13. They don't exist to allow admins to create the most boring interpretation of SS13.
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Re: REMOVE LING remove ling
whyCPTANT wrote:Ling should be a progression based side antag.
/thread
this side antag meme is getting out of hand
why not just antag antag
i play Lauser McMauligan. clown name is Cold-Ass Honkey
i have three other top secret characters as well.
tell the best admin how good he is
i have three other top secret characters as well.
tell the best admin how good he is
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- CPTANT
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Re: REMOVE LING remove ling
Because progression based antags suck as primary antags and lings only make sense as a progression based role.PKPenguin321 wrote:whyCPTANT wrote:Ling should be a progression based side antag.
/thread
this side antag meme is getting out of hand
why not just antag antag
Also "side" antag doesn't mean they shouldn't be a threat, a ling that has absorbed enough DNA should be able to fuck up the station royally.
Timberpoes wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:21 pm The rules exist to create the biggest possible chance of a cool shift of SS13. They don't exist to allow admins to create the most boring interpretation of SS13.
- Armhulen
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Re: REMOVE LING remove ling
Side antags are great and we should have more of them, they bring variety to the round
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Re: REMOVE LING remove ling
No they don't.
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Re: REMOVE LING remove ling
"Found a traitor now I know what every other antagonist in the round is and will have"Lumbermancer wrote:No they don't.
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Re: REMOVE LING remove ling
I love me some side antags, but right now we have fewer main antags than ever with the newest one being made in 2010. If anything, I'd want to see 2-3 new main antags.
- Lumbermancer
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Re: REMOVE LING remove ling
"I found a traitor, now I know there's traitors. Now I found a revenant, so now I know there's also a revenant".
Except traitor is integral to the round, while side-antag exist only to perpetuate itself and ruin your experience.
Except traitor is integral to the round, while side-antag exist only to perpetuate itself and ruin your experience.
- CPTANT
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Re: REMOVE LING remove ling
But every antag is out there to shoot,bomb,absorb or convert you.Lumbermancer wrote:"I found a traitor, now I know there's traitors. Now I found a revenant, so now I know there's also a revenant".
Except traitor is integral to the round, while side-antag exist only to perpetuate itself and ruin your experience.
Timberpoes wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:21 pm The rules exist to create the biggest possible chance of a cool shift of SS13. They don't exist to allow admins to create the most boring interpretation of SS13.
- Lumbermancer
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Re: REMOVE LING remove ling
No, not me. Just their target. The fact that murdeboner and murderbomber exists is a player issue. Meanwhile side-antags destroy everything by design.
- Luke Cox
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Re: REMOVE LING remove ling
If you give someone a bunch of cool toys and free valids, they will go on killing sprees. There is no way to stop it without royally pissing off at least 2/3 of the playerbase. We have to accept it and move on.
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Re: REMOVE LING remove ling
thats something that was supposed to be solved by datum antags I thought, as you could functionally have any antag during any round with themArmhulen wrote:"Found a traitor now I know what every other antagonist in the round is and will have"Lumbermancer wrote:No they don't.
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Re: REMOVE LING remove ling
we have datum antags now, we just need to have changelings and traitors have a low chance of happening in every round tooDr_bee wrote:thats something that was supposed to be solved by datum antags I thought, as you could functionally have any antag during any round with themArmhulen wrote:"Found a traitor now I know what every other antagonist in the round is and will have"Lumbermancer wrote:No they don't.
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Re: REMOVE LING remove ling
OR SOMETHING! Doesn't have to be crazy!Armhulen wrote:we have datum antags now, we just need to have changelings and traitors have a low chance of happening in every round tooDr_bee wrote:thats something that was supposed to be solved by datum antags I thought, as you could functionally have any antag during any round with themArmhulen wrote:"Found a traitor now I know what every other antagonist in the round is and will have"Lumbermancer wrote:No they don't.
- Cobby
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Re: REMOVE LING remove ling
stop adding baddies to the mix if you’re not going to touch primary antags who are scaled to be the sole antag of the round!!!
Voted best trap in /tg/ 2014-current
- Armhulen
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- Location: The Grand Tournament
Re: REMOVE LING remove ling
ideally we'd have a gamemode that mixes a bunch of side antags roundstart as the game mode instead of traitor and changeling, so nuke ops can stay away from traitors revolvering the cap and nuking immediatelyCobby wrote:stop adding baddies to the mix if you’re not going to touch primary antags who are scaled to be the sole antag of the round!!!
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