Aliens

matilda · Post by **matilda** » Mon Jan 05, 2015 1:11 am #55709

Aliens are a much-loved part of this game and alium rounds are often the most memorable, but it just doesn't happen a lot. Even when it does happen, the aliens often don't even gain enough traction or have enough time to spread. I suggest that we

1. Increase the chance of aliens spawning
2. Don't show a message to the crew when they arrive, so that they have a chance to actually surprise
3. possibly even give them their own gamemode

Just a thought

cedarbridge · Post by **cedarbridge** » Mon Jan 05, 2015 1:28 am #55711

matilda wrote:Aliens are a much-loved part of this game and alium rounds are often the most memorable, but it just doesn't happen a lot. Even when it does happen, the aliens often don't even gain enough traction or have enough time to spread. I suggest that we

1. Increase the chance of aliens spawning
2. Don't show a message to the crew when they arrive, so that they have a chance to actually surprise
3. possibly even give them their own gamemode

Just a thought

Xenos are a round-ending event to cause the shuttle to be called and keep it called. It exists this way for a reason and is "balanced" for that purpose. I'm also not sure were you get the idea that they don't spawn often since just about every round that goes past 1hr seems to have one spawn. They don't spawn before that in normal rounds because normal rounds aren't about late-spawning superantags that kill everything on the station to make more superantags that kill everything on the station. To have them spawn more often or earlier would just cause /tg/ to turn into xenostation 13 (which I was afraid we were going that way for a while last summer.) If you're really that hype about xenos I can suggest a couple hub servers that run xenos 23/7

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Mon Jan 05, 2015 1:30 am #55712

The only way I can see a "Alien" mode work is a more heavily role-playing single Alien hunter that focuses on stalking the crew and creating tension. Rarely a admin might decide to try that with a ghost/themselves to spice up the round without summoning a entire Alien hive.

But as noted, Aliens are really balanced as being a game ending entity, their only real counters are either well equipped Durands or the Death Squad.

Ikarrus · Post by **Ikarrus** » Mon Jan 05, 2015 1:36 am #55714

Only way we're going to see them more often is if we also heavily nerfed them.

They wouldn't be the same, then.

DemonFiren · Post by **DemonFiren** » Mon Jan 05, 2015 1:42 am #55715

A stalky hunter has potential. It's like the ninja's weirder brother.

Alex Crimson · Post by **Alex Crimson** » Mon Jan 05, 2015 2:08 am #55725

Nuke ops are literally a game-ending antag, yet they have had a game mode for a very long time. There is no excuse for Aliens not having some kind of game mode other than the coders just do not want to code it.

Aliens just thrive in instances where the crew act like idiots, so of course they overrun the station a lot. If you feed them hosts, you gon lose sun.

seriously though, as fun as it would be, Alien is never going to become a game mode on this server.

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Mon Jan 05, 2015 2:37 am #55733

Nuke Ops have been balanced out over the course of several years and are routinely defeated by the crew.

Aliens have never been balanced out and routinely wipe out the crew.

The only reliable way to defeat a Alien hive is to have had several hours to build up Durands. A single Xenomorph is worth several Nuke Ops.

Alex Crimson · Post by **Alex Crimson** » Mon Jan 05, 2015 2:47 am #55740

Wiping out a Xeno hive is easy if you actually have a halfway decent group of well-equipped people. Several hours to build a Durand? It doesnt take that long even if you mine the materials yourself.

Like i said, the reason Aliens win in the end is because there are always people who make dumb mistakes and end up running into the hive with a welder thinking they are rambo.

Bombadil · Post by **Bombadil** » Mon Jan 05, 2015 3:23 am #55748

Steelpoint wrote:Nuke Ops have been balanced out over the course of several years and are routinely defeated by the crew.

Aliens have never been balanced out and routinely wipe out the crew.

The only reliable way to defeat a Alien hive is to have had several hours to build up Durands. A single Xenomorph is worth several Nuke Ops.

Xeno Queen vs Phazon

GG NO RE.

Especially when it runs through the wall and lights everything on fire with its mech flamethrower

Bombadil · Post by **Bombadil** » Mon Jan 05, 2015 12:14 pm #55857

Bombadil wrote:
Steelpoint wrote:Nuke Ops have been balanced out over the course of several years and are routinely defeated by the crew.

Aliens have never been balanced out and routinely wipe out the crew.

The only reliable way to defeat a Alien hive is to have had several hours to build up Durands. A single Xenomorph is worth several Nuke Ops.

Xeno Queen vs Phazon

GG NO RE.

Especially when it runs through the wall and lights everything on fire with its mech flamethrower

'

Oh and now that aliens process chems again? A phazon can toxin pucn the xeno queen and make her perma drunk.

I havn't seen aliens win in months unless mining all died and didnt bring tons of plasma for research to make a phazon to kill all life with

RG4 · Post by **RG4** » Mon Jan 05, 2015 3:12 pm #55890

Xenos primarily are used to be round ending antags if say the crew stays on the station after dunking nuke ops. They're not meant to be balance at all that's why they're faster then everyone else on the station and can slap borgs around like play things. But in successful xeno-rounds with little to no admin interference are pretty rare as it is due to:

1.Radios no matter what Xenos will get called out instantly, even if someone accidentally happens upon a growing nest it'll be wiped out within an instant. As far as I know xeno's can't vent crawl into telecomms.
2.Being unable to melt R-Walls, this is probably controversial but R-Walls cannot be melted with acid, Xenos definitely would see an increase in winning if they could melt R-walls because they'd be able to gain access to areas where Human's would feel safe with the vents welded.
3.Have you ever seen a hulk fight xenos with riot suit on? It's down right depressing to see a hulk walk into Xeno hive in a riot suit and begin to punch out every xeno in there.
4.Plasma fires = GG no re, all you need to do is get a fire suit and flamethrower, set your suit on fire and begin to spray plasma like a mother fucker.
5.Lasers are pretty devastating to Xenos when you think about, just a few shots you get them critted.
6.Lets not discuss mechs at all, I'm a big supporter of mech rights but Xenos will never take out a Durand with a laser canon unless they get a human speed but hulk-like xeno evolution for hive sentinels.
7.Cargonia stronk, nuff said.
8. Why can't hunters use their tails to stab people for massive damage, won't be able to face hug them but they'll be be able to rid troublesome humans with ease.

I've forced successful xeno rounds as a miner because I basically set up a decent enough area for the hive to grow.

Miauw · Post by **Miauw** » Mon Jan 05, 2015 8:02 pm #55950

xenos are going to stay approximately as they are right now or approximately ever.

they're not supposed to be balanced, they're supposed to be round-ending and even that is far from a certainty. I guarantee you that if xenos become common everybody will be sick of them within a week, because frankly, xenos are sort of shit. But, as I have said many times before, that's ok. they're not common and uncommon shit is better than common tedium.

having the event not show a message would be ok i guess (if it messaged the admins instead but thats doable)

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Mon Jan 05, 2015 8:12 pm #55955

The joke is for something as rare as xenos, they're hilariously easy to combat.

matilda · Post by **matilda** » Mon Jan 05, 2015 8:43 pm #55963

Why don't they give facehuggers AI like they used to have? They would crawl towards people I remember

Post by **lumipharon** » Tue Jan 06, 2015 12:36 am #56025

The ONLY thing "round ending" about xeno's currently is hunter's ability to heuheuheuh pounce spam. It's comically broken and completely invalidates sentinel (why be slow and shit, with high energy usage stun that can only fire in straight lines, when you can be sanic fast with zero CD point and click range stuns?).

If Pounce ghad a CD (I remember discussion, or a pr about that I think), then xenos would be fine, but it would be more interesting if the alert message was removed, or atleast delayed longer.
Currently the timer is so short, unless you have an actually competent queen, who gets a few early hosts, the crew just lynch the shit out of them.
Also the removal of xeno pockets was a big nerf not only to the strength of all xenos, but also reduced the enjoyment of them. Now that xeno's can't carry spare huggers, It's MUCH harder for them to try drag hosts back to the nest. Hugger's were a long stun for suitably unprotected hosts, and helped thin out the herd. Now days most hunters just kill most people rather then bothering to try get them infected.

cedarbridge · Post by **cedarbridge** » Tue Jan 06, 2015 12:41 am #56026

lumipharon wrote:The ONLY thing "round ending" about xeno's currently is hunter's ability to heuheuheuh pounce spam.

Rather, they're round ending because they snowball extremely quickly after a certain critical mass (low threshold) so that literally everything on the station is getting assblasted minus that one or two lucky jerks that get into space and snag a pod right before it leaves the station.

bandit · Post by **bandit** » Tue Jan 06, 2015 1:49 am #56050

cedarbridge wrote:Xenos are a round-ending event to cause the shuttle to be called and keep it called. It exists this way for a reason and is "balanced" for that purpose.

People keep quoting this without elaborating on how it's balanced for a round-ending event. Xenos take so long to get a reasonably-sized nest off the ground that it seems to me the balance is more suitable to a mid- or early-round event. Almost every time, when xenos are spawned to end the round, the shuttle is called on its own and arrives at the station sometimes before any facehuggers have even hatched. (This is why, when admins really want to end rounds, they spawn multiple larvae, like 3 or 4, and not just one.)

cedarbridge · Post by **cedarbridge** » Tue Jan 06, 2015 2:11 am #56057

bandit wrote:
cedarbridge wrote:Xenos are a round-ending event to cause the shuttle to be called and keep it called. It exists this way for a reason and is "balanced" for that purpose.
People keep quoting this without elaborating on how it's balanced for a round-ending event. Xenos take so long to get a reasonably-sized nest off the ground that it seems to me the balance is more suitable to a mid- or early-round event. Almost every time, when xenos are spawned to end the round, the shuttle is called on its own and arrives at the station sometimes before any facehuggers have even hatched. (This is why, when admins really want to end rounds, they spawn multiple larvae, like 3 or 4, and not just one.)

>xenos are spotted
>shuttle gets called

I'm sure these are unrelated.

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Tue Jan 06, 2015 7:25 am #56122

bandit wrote:
cedarbridge wrote:Xenos are a round-ending event to cause the shuttle to be called and keep it called. It exists this way for a reason and is "balanced" for that purpose.
People keep quoting this without elaborating on how it's balanced for a round-ending event. Xenos take so long to get a reasonably-sized nest off the ground that it seems to me the balance is more suitable to a mid- or early-round event. Almost every time, when xenos are spawned to end the round, the shuttle is called on its own and arrives at the station sometimes before any facehuggers have even hatched. (This is why, when admins really want to end rounds, they spawn multiple larvae, like 3 or 4, and not just one.)

Aliens didn't always used to be pussified nerfed pieces of shit, they used to be insanely robust and spawn extremely fast when you facehugged people.

Anyone who says aliens are meant to be round ending know their shit. The alien in the movie is robust as fuck and fast. In the sequel they're cannon fodder but who cares about the sequel

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Tue Jan 06, 2015 8:29 am #56135

Actually the Aliens in Aliens are very intelligent, they applied high level military tactics in fighting off the Marines. For example the Queen established her nest in a area they knew the Humans would not directly attack because it would kill the Humans as well, in addition the Aliens intentionally attacked and crashed the Marines dropship to cut off their supply route, as well as probing their defences, cutting their power, etc.

Throughout the entire movie only about 30 Alien died, I recall only about 4 to 10 Aliens were killed from the Sentry Turrets. If you watch closely you can see the Aliens moving from cover to cover to force the Sentry guns to exhaust their ammo. The Aliens did retreat when they believed the Sentry Guns had unlimited ammo and decided to not expend any more lives, and instead cut the power.

One idea people brought up when talking about the Alien from Alien:Isolation and its immunity to bullets is that the bullets used by the Marines, which is true, are high explosive rounds designed to pierce armour and blow up, while we can assume that the civilian weapons on the station are very low calibre with low armour penetration to avoid a stray bullet shooting out the hull.

If you were to ever make a Alien game mode, that one Alien would have to be insanely robust.

EDIT: Here's a little quote from James Cameron on the issue

James Cameron: If we assume the Aliens have intelligence, at least in the central guiding authority of the Queen, then it is possible that these decisions may have a tactical basis. For example, Ferro (dropship pilot) was a greater threat, piloting the heavily armed dropship, than she was a desirable host for reproduction. Newt, and most of the colonists, were unarmed and relatively helpless, therefore easily captured for hosting.

Post by **MisterPerson** » Tue Jan 06, 2015 9:59 am #56149

Any chance we can do something creative and original instead of something lazy and blatantly ripped from another source?

dezzmont · Post by **dezzmont** » Tue Jan 06, 2015 10:02 am #56150

MisterPerson wrote:Any chance we can do something creative and original instead of something lazy and blatantly ripped from another source?

Hahaha.

No.

Or at least not likely. We would kind of need a pseudo creative director to get a lore and general theme down. If anyone is good at writing and drawing they should try their hand at it. In general good original ideas don't spring from the aether. Someone has to do work on them.

Alex Crimson · Tue Jan 06, 2015 10:03 am

Pretty much everything is a ripoff of something nowadays. Who cares as long as its fun.

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Tue Jan 06, 2015 10:17 am #56153

Everything is inspired from something, there's nothing wrong with that.

I think its easy to think we should make a Alien a single type, and powerful, antag. But the fact is that role should be reserved for our Changeling. However currently Changelings are far more of a team antag than anything else.

iyaerP · Post by **iyaerP** » Tue Jan 06, 2015 11:22 am #56161

paprika wrote:
bandit wrote:
cedarbridge wrote:Anyone who says aliens are meant to be round ending know their shit. The alien in the movie is robust as fuck and fast. In the sequel they're cannon fodder but who cares about the sequel

It is less that they are cannon fodder, and more that you have military grade weaponry and trained soldiers facing them rather than civilians with jury-rigged weapons. And even then, the marines are wiped out almost to a man.

bandit · Post by **bandit** » Tue Jan 06, 2015 4:00 pm #56208

cedarbridge wrote:
bandit wrote:
cedarbridge wrote:Xenos are a round-ending event to cause the shuttle to be called and keep it called. It exists this way for a reason and is "balanced" for that purpose.
People keep quoting this without elaborating on how it's balanced for a round-ending event. Xenos take so long to get a reasonably-sized nest off the ground that it seems to me the balance is more suitable to a mid- or early-round event. Almost every time, when xenos are spawned to end the round, the shuttle is called on its own and arrives at the station sometimes before any facehuggers have even hatched. (This is why, when admins really want to end rounds, they spawn multiple larvae, like 3 or 4, and not just one.)
>xenos are spotted
>shuttle gets called

I'm sure these are unrelated.

I meant that a good portion of the time the shuttle is called on its own for unrelated reasons (generally because if the round is long enough for xenos to spawn / shot to hell enough for admins to spawn xenos, a shuttle call is likely anyway), before the xenos are ever spotted or in a lot of cases before they even evolve from larva. Which sucks for the poor xeno.

cedarbridge · Post by **cedarbridge** » Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:23 pm #56240

paprika wrote:spawn extremely fast when you facehugged people.

Considering how many people I've had explode on the operating table almost immediately after getting hugged, I'd wager they still pop pretty annoyingly fast.

soulgamer · Post by **soulgamer** » Tue Jan 06, 2015 7:05 pm #56248

Reduce the plasma needed for larva to evolve by 50 and you will have solved most of the slow start problems. You spend two to three times longer as a larva than you do as a drone before going queen. It is a bit ridiculous.

Scones · Post by **Scones** » Tue Jan 06, 2015 7:13 pm #56254

Alex Crimson wrote:Nuke ops are literally a game-ending antag, yet they have had a game mode for a very long time. There is no excuse for Aliens not having some kind of game mode other than the coders just do not want to code it.

Aliens just thrive in instances where the crew act like idiots, so of course they overrun the station a lot. If you feed them hosts, you gon lose sun.

seriously though, as fun as it would be, Alien is never going to become a game mode on this server.

Even a proactive crew struggles vs aliens. Nuke ops are humans with human weaknesses and good equipment. Xenos are spaceworthy, absurdly fast, fairly durable... The list goes on. The two are not comparable.

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Tue Jan 06, 2015 8:15 pm #56269

Cecily wrote:Even a proactive crew struggles vs aliens. Nuke ops are humans with human weaknesses and good equipment. Xenos are spaceworthy, absurdly fast, fairly durable... The list goes on. The two are not comparable.

Fairly durable untill you realize they take double damage from laser weaponry, because they take double damage from burn damage.

Two-three shots will crit most of them, and if you have a heavy laser cannon...

cedarbridge · Post by **cedarbridge** » Tue Jan 06, 2015 8:39 pm #56275

Saegrimr wrote:
Cecily wrote:Even a proactive crew struggles vs aliens. Nuke ops are humans with human weaknesses and good equipment. Xenos are spaceworthy, absurdly fast, fairly durable... The list goes on. The two are not comparable.
Fairly durable untill you realize they take double damage from laser weaponry, because they take double damage from burn damage.

Two-three shots will crit most of them, and if you have a heavy laser cannon...

They're hit and run antags. They're not really designed to stand there and get shot 20 times. You run in, see laser, get shot once or twice, duck back into your weeds. Come back, tank one or two more shots (or don't) and by the time you're done zigzagging them they're either out of ammo or fucked off so you can go back to dunking everyone who isn't packing a flamethrower/laser. Make it a priority to run over anyone in science so you don't have to get dunked by mechs and lascannons.

Bombadil · Post by **Bombadil** » Tue Jan 06, 2015 9:25 pm #56288

Larva's barely get to queen before the announcement happens... and when the announcement happens? CALL TEH SHUTTLE OH MY GOD XENOS.

No one ever wants to even attempt to fight them when they do they usually run in as a Phazon with hellfire carbine lighting the nest on fire

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Tue Jan 06, 2015 9:52 pm #56299

cedarbridge wrote:They're hit and run antags. They're not really designed to stand there and get shot 20 times. You run in, see laser, get shot once or twice, duck back into your weeds.

Hunter probably has that luxury with spamming leap to get away, but that's really toeing the line of getting dropped because of robust SS13 combat.

And even when you're in the nest all it takes is minimum two dudes. First guy to act as bait and get tackled and the second to blast the thing that jumped on his ass.

WJohnston · Post by **WJohnston** » Tue Jan 06, 2015 10:07 pm #56306

Eugh, I don't really want to throw even more at this than I already have over the past 3 or so years.

Look, aliens are basically power ramp incarnate. They start off abysmally weak and stay as such for pretty much the entire time they're around.

Then, and I mean the very INSTANT that another alien is around, it's less of a snowball effect and completely out of control insane amounts of power. (This is when they become unstoppable round enders)

If aliens are to be added in as a game mode or at least become more frequent of an event, this needs to be fixed.

An illustration of their power curve:

Alex Crimson · Tue Jan 06, 2015 10:08 pm

literally no point arguing it. Its never going to be a game mode because nobody wants to try.

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Tue Jan 06, 2015 10:18 pm #56308

Alex Crimson wrote:literally no point arguing it. Its never going to be a game mode because nobody wants to try.

Back when the dark-resin alien changes came around, every round was xenos and people got really sick of it. Whether it has to do with the balance of them, or just the way the round plays out, probably a good thing it isn't a gamemode.

I know everybody gets tired of blob after the second one in a row.

AnonymousNow · Post by **AnonymousNow** » Tue Mar 10, 2015 7:32 pm #74806

Reminder: FREE INFINITE INSTANT DAMAGING STUNS which nobody ever seems to use to, y'know, actually drag people back to a nest and make more xenomorphs with.

Bombadil · Post by **Bombadil** » Tue Mar 10, 2015 8:55 pm #74814

WJohnston wrote:Eugh, I don't really want to throw even more at this than I already have over the past 3 or so years.

Look, aliens are basically power ramp incarnate. They start off abysmally weak and stay as such for pretty much the entire time they're around.

Then, and I mean the very INSTANT that another alien is around, it's less of a snowball effect and completely out of control insane amounts of power. (This is when they become unstoppable round enders)

If aliens are to be added in as a game mode or at least become more frequent of an event, this needs to be fixed.

An illustration of their power curve:

One round all the xenos escaped from xenobio I equipped HoS captain and all of security with xray lasers and laser cannons. We won.

Remie Richards · Tue Mar 10, 2015 10:09 pm

AnonymousNow wrote:Reminder: FREE INFINITE INSTANT DAMAGING STUNS which nobody ever seems to use to, y'know, actually drag people back to a nest and make more xenomorphs with.

You know, it's one thing to spout incorrect information the first time and it's another when you're proven wrong and end up using a forum reroll as a method of spreading your bullshit.

AnonymousNow · Tue Mar 10, 2015 10:30 pm

Remie Richards wrote:
AnonymousNow wrote:Reminder: FREE INFINITE INSTANT DAMAGING STUNS which nobody ever seems to use to, y'know, actually drag people back to a nest and make more xenomorphs with.
You know, it's one thing to spout incorrect information the first time and it's another when you're proven wrong and end up using a forum reroll as a method of spreading your bullshit.

Well, actually, I realised that this little reminder was removed during the forum reroll, and thought it important to put it back where it was. Thanks for the obnoxious stuck-up bastardry, though, it really contributes.

And when did you prove me wrong? Are you saying that xenomorphs DON'T have FREE INFINITE INSTANT DAMAGING STUNS?

Remie Richards · Tue Mar 10, 2015 10:54 pm

AnonymousNow wrote:
Remie Richards wrote:
AnonymousNow wrote:Reminder: FREE INFINITE INSTANT DAMAGING STUNS which nobody ever seems to use to, y'know, actually drag people back to a nest and make more xenomorphs with.
You know, it's one thing to spout incorrect information the first time and it's another when you're proven wrong and end up using a forum reroll as a method of spreading your bullshit.
Well, actually, I realised that this little reminder was removed during the forum reroll, and thought it important to put it back where it was. Thanks for the obnoxious stuck-up bastardry, though, it really contributes.

And when did you prove me wrong? Are you saying that xenomorphs DON'T have FREE INFINITE INSTANT DAMAGING STUNS?

That's exactly what I'm saying, you were proven wrong by myself + steelpoint and Lumipharon (I think Dorsisdwarf offered counter points but ended up helping out too)
What you're saying is that they have Free infinite Instant Damage Stuns.
When really they have:
* Infinite Damage (Duh, all mobs have this, nothing new)
* The Capacity to stun mobs easily (Most mobs have this, but not on this scale, no)
It's not one functionality.

Yes people can switch between harm/disarm quickly (I believe this was mention by steel/lumi/dorsis) but that's different to what you're spouting, IN GIANT RED TEXT.
So yes, I could have been a little more tactful with my response, my apologies, but when you're trying hard to make false information known it's really annoying.

AnonymousNow · Tue Mar 10, 2015 11:08 pm

Remie Richards wrote: That's exactly what I'm saying, you were proven wrong by myself + steelpoint and Lumipharon (I think Dorsisdwarf offered counter points but ended up helping out too)
What you're saying is that they have Free infinite Instant Damage Stuns.
When really they have:
* Infinite Damage (Duh, all mobs have this, nothing new)
* The Capacity to stun mobs easily (Most mobs have this, but not on this scale, no)
It's not one functionality.

Yes people can switch between harm/disarm quickly (I believe this was mention by steel/lumi/dorsis) but that's different to what you're spouting, IN GIANT RED TEXT.
So yes, I could have been a little more tactful with my response, my apologies, but when you're trying hard to make false information known it's really annoying.

No, y'see, when those things can happen in one click, in one action, then it's all one big thing. And having personally had this happen to me, with the same message every time I was knocked down (with admittedly low damage, but consistent and completely unavoidable), it's rather disheartening to be told that it's not possible.

Now imagine that with eight people. That's one for each square around a central point in a 3x3 grid. Admittedly the chances of this happening are outside, but seeing the problem at any scale (like the three people killed in medbay by one hunter juuuuust before the last instance in which I got glomped) is alarming.

So tell me. Is it literally impossible, in the code, for an alien hunter's stun (which, by the way, has no apparent cooldown and they can consistently do whilst dragging you!) to damage a player? And if this is the case, why was I (and the three medbay victims) consistently taking brute (examined self) damage in the middle of a normal atmosphere (no pressure issues) corridor?

Remie Richards · Tue Mar 10, 2015 11:19 pm

AnonymousNow wrote:
Remie Richards wrote: That's exactly what I'm saying, you were proven wrong by myself + steelpoint and Lumipharon (I think Dorsisdwarf offered counter points but ended up helping out too)
What you're saying is that they have Free infinite Instant Damage Stuns.
When really they have:
* Infinite Damage (Duh, all mobs have this, nothing new)
* The Capacity to stun mobs easily (Most mobs have this, but not on this scale, no)
It's not one functionality.

Yes people can switch between harm/disarm quickly (I believe this was mention by steel/lumi/dorsis) but that's different to what you're spouting, IN GIANT RED TEXT.
So yes, I could have been a little more tactful with my response, my apologies, but when you're trying hard to make false information known it's really annoying.
No, y'see, when those things can happen in one click, in one action, then it's all one big thing. And having personally had this happen to me, with the same message every time I was knocked down (with admittedly low damage, but consistent and completely unavoidable), it's rather disheartening to be told that it's not possible.

Now imagine that with eight people. That's one for each square around a central point in a 3x3 grid. Admittedly the chances of this happening are outside, but seeing the problem at any scale (like the three people killed in medbay by one hunter juuuuust before the last instance in which I got glomped) is alarming.

So tell me. Is it literally impossible, in the code, for an alien hunter's stun (which, by the way, has no apparent cooldown and they can consistently do whilst dragging you!) to damage a player? And if this is the case, why was I (and the three medbay victims) consistently taking brute (examined self) damage in the middle of a normal atmosphere (no pressure issues) corridor?

I'm afraid I ALREADY told you, IN CODE, that it's impossible, sadly the forum reroll removed it, but I'll recount:
Alien disarm intent (the stun one) calls Weaken(5) and ONLY Weaken(5) (well no, it has 20% chance to make you drop an item instead, but that's not what you're referring too)
Weaken(5) set's the mob's weakened var to 5, weakened prevents you from moving, and prevents you using certain machines (since you're stunned)
the moving prevention comes from can_move(), which itself calls fall() (which my default drops both items in the mob's hands) but for /carbon (human included), it calls turf.handle_fall()
which does the dropping of items, a sound effect, and if requirements are met, checks the gravity of the mob that fell.
weakened is lowered by 1 during Life().

It NEVER does damage.

To top this off, (sadly also lost to the reroll) Steelpoint simply opened the game up (Real have no idea why I didn't do this but given I was able to scour the entirety of every usage of the weakened variable in under 5 minutes and easily determine that no damage occurs, I decided not to), and attacked a human as a xeno with disarm intent over and over and reported no damage to the human.
Lumipharon also came in to mention that players typically rapidly swap between harm and disarm, since disarm doesn't do damage.

I also mentioned that I believe your error/confusion stems form the fact that a harm intent and a disarm intent alien both make the SAME slash sound effect, despite one of the two intents never damaging.

I'll also add on that I myself have MANY a time fucked up in being a xeno when I forget I'm in disarm intent, and get increasingly infuriated as the human simply keeps falling over, to get up again completely unharmed (atleast physically)

AnonymousNow · Tue Mar 10, 2015 11:35 pm

Remie Richards wrote:-

Right, well - I missed all of that. I've been mostly away from the game in general for a few days as I've been distracted with incidental work.

This, then, is significant. I still think that this combination, which essentially involves mashing right click and change intent, is way too much.
EDIT: Wrong key combination. Still, so smooth as to be practically unnoticeable in transition, and functionally pretty much identical to what I thought it was due to that speed of switching.

Remie Richards · Tue Mar 10, 2015 11:44 pm

That's fine, for the record, I'd like to state I'm not exactly for alien stunning, but I know why it's there and I can accept that; Aliens are round-enders and are aimed towards that.
My only issue was the spreading of rather easily researchable false information, so my apologies for hostilities/confusion there.

AnonymousNow · Tue Mar 10, 2015 11:48 pm

Remie Richards wrote:That's fine, for the record, I'd like to state I'm not exactly for alien stunning, but I know why it's there and I can accept that; Aliens are round-enders and are aimed towards that.
My only issue was the spreading of rather easily researchable false information, so my apologies for hostilities/confusion there.

Sorry from my end, too. I was absolutely convinced, since the damage and stunning was consistent, it sounded the same and... this may just be my memory filling in, but I swear the knock-down message was timed to pretty much every slash, which wouldn't make sense...

Whatever. I'm not sure xenomorphs should be round-enders. It seems like the kind of thing that a crew should be able and encouraged to dig in against and fend off until the boys with the big guns arrive.

Bombadil · Post by **Bombadil** » Wed Mar 11, 2015 12:38 am #74848

Well would you edit your shit to not be pretentious as fuck anonymous?

AnonymousNow · Post by **AnonymousNow** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 9:09 pm #75163

Bombadil wrote:Well would you edit your shit to not be pretentious as fuck anonymous?

I think the point stands, though - these stuns are too powerful and I have no idea why they seem relatively untouched.

WJohnston · Post by **WJohnston** » Fri Mar 13, 2015 3:07 am #75348

Be creative with how you fight aliens, if they have a clear advantage in one area, learn how to either work around it or negate it entirely.
Numbers: The stunning only lasts so long, too many people prevents everyone from being stunlocked.
Speed: Keep up and even outpace them, great for avoiding backup xenos.
Lasers: Distance means melee can't hit you.
Face protection: Ignore facehuggers completely.
Riot shield: Immune to pouncing, very resistant to spit (which can only be fired in cardinal directions)
Hulks: They can't stun you at all, and you can stun them with your punches.
Fires: Melt them and their nest, flush them out and put them in bad positions.
Mechs: Has all of the above.

It's not hard, you use these kinds of tactics on things like blobs, nuke ops, and revolutions. Competent aliens are just as dangerous as competent blobs or nuke teams, you just need a competent crew to respond.

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Fri Mar 13, 2015 3:13 am #75350

Riot Shields also have a chance to deflect or block a Aliens attack. Its RNG but its better than a small (10%?) chance of not getting stunned normally.