REMOVE SHOTGUNS FROM OPS

[Tunder]

REMOVE SHOTGUNS FROM OPS JESUS FUCK

THEY LEAD TO TEAMKILLING EVERY SINGLE OPS ROUND

EVERY

SINGLE

ROUND

Whoever came up with this gem of an idea didn't playtest, and they didn't run it by the player base. I've seen a minimum of two Ops die to friendly fire in each of the last four I've been on.

It's shit, shotguns are unwieldy at best, but when coupled with the insipid unrobustness of the average player it leads to one retard mowing down his entire team in a single drum.


REMOVE IT, GIVE US EGUNS OR CR-20S BACK

[Scones]

they're really good, jobban shit ops and crank the client age restrictions to 6 monthes

(also nuke suits really should have crazy high bullet resist to mitigate these situations, the crew is highly unlikely to use lethal bullets against them anyways)

[Tunder]

they're really good, jobban shit ops and crank the client age restrictions to 6 monthes

One of our suggestions is a matter of coding and will work, the other is competing with admin laziness and their labeling any issues 'IC' and will not.


I've been teamkilled by other Ops twice now, and the admins haven't done shit.

That means we have to change the guns.

Also, Ops shuttle doesn't even have a fucking bandage yet.

[Remie Richards]

i ded pls nerf

[Tunder]

i ded pls nerf

No, I not only see Ops go down into crit or die every round I play, but every round I spectate where there is any actual gunfighting between the ops and crew.

The shotgun is very simple: Don't use it if anyone is standing next to you or your target. But idiocy knows no bounds, and there is really no reason shotguns were put in over eguns or CR-20s anyway.

[Bluespace]

to be fair i see a lot of dumb ops shoot each other too

[lumipharon]

It's not an issue with the shotgun.

It's an issue that the default ammo changed from taser slugs to buckshot in wake of pap's stun changes
Buckshot has huge ass spread, and so basically hit anything and everything in the direction you shoot.

[TheNightingale]

Give them default taser rounds, with solid slug, buckshot and dragonsbreath options for TC?

[Scones]

I was told many times during my run as admin to ban people who fuck over their team as ops

It's usually the standing next to you bit that people don't understand, and this goes for shooting anything in SS13 (Seen so much sec laser friendly fire from adjacents)

[lumipharon]

Buckshot (and even worse, dragons breath), is really unwieldy to use. If you're in front of your team it's fine, but the moment a real fight happens, and people start moving around, it becomes real hard to line up shots where you're not going to set your team mates on fire and shit.

The other issue with all incendiary ammo after the FIRETRAIL change, is you can't move forwards while using it, or you set yourself on fire.

[PKPenguin321]

Hey, since eguns are shit now with disablers, why don't we make an old egun with stun/laser and sprite it to look evil and give it to the syndies instead of shotguns (in other words give syndies eguns back)?

[lumipharon]

Because energy guns aren't really a syndie thing (other the e-bow which is energy only in name really). It also means emp's wreck them, and powersink inhibit their recharging.
The guns themselves are great, it's just any sort of buckshot pretty much lends itself to easy friendly fire.

[Incomptinence]

I like the ballistic theme. One nice thing Pap did was giving ops more of their own theme.

An ammo change is probably in order though to solid slug or taser round. This is a team antag having buckshot spray all over by default that is silly of course there are more accidents than normal.

A cool ops item to buy would be an intelligent ammo clip that refills itself by eating metal and can morph between ammo types. Fuck I just took a page out of Invisible War's book please help me.

[Cik]

the ammo used to be stun slugs, just change it back or to a ballistic slug / dragonfire / whatever instead of the pellets

[PKPenguin321]

Because energy guns aren't really a syndie thing (other the e-bow which is energy only in name really). It also means emp's wreck them, and powersink inhibit their recharging.
The guns themselves are great, it's just any sort of buckshot pretty much lends itself to easy friendly fire.

That's why I'm saying retheme them to be more suited to syndicate style. If the only thing standing between ops and eguns is something cosmetic, change the cosmetics.

[lumipharon]

Ballistics is the syndie thing, energy guns is an NT thing. That's why we changed to shotguns in the first place.

There's no issue with the gun itself, it's just the current default ammo does not lend itself to team play.

[Vekter]

>I got merk'd by another syndie, please remove

Paprika attitude there cap'n

Cranky's advice: git gud




Okay, on a less shitty note, really it comes down to whether we want to revert something because people are fucking up with it or not. I don't think it's nearly as bad as you're making it out to be.

[Tunder]

>I got merk'd by another syndie, please remove

Paprika attitude there cap'n

Cranky's advice: git gud




Okay, on a less shitty note, really it comes down to whether we want to revert something because people are fucking up with it or not. I don't think it's nearly as bad as you're making it out to be.

I play a lot. So if I notice shit, it tends to be on a wide scale. I see scattergun teamkilling most Op rounds nowadays.

[Not-Dorsidarf]

I'll givee ops slug clips as standard if you promise to stop using extreme hyperbole in thread titles.

[Tunder]

I'll givee ops slug clips as standard if you promise to stop using extreme hyperbole in thread titles.

N-never.

But if you toss in an ops shuttle bandage I'll think about it :^)

[Falamazeer]

I think tunder is right on this one, I did my best on a "clown ops" round and to be careful with the spray, we were in the teleporter room trying to talk a guy into pulsing the bolts so we could emag into the caps room when someone started shooting, I stepped into the hall , tossed a viscerater behind the sec team, and that was the end of my usefulness, As everyone jockeyed for position to be in a good line of fire with mobility to sidestep, I wound up peppering my teamates, and I wasn't the only one, By the end of the firefight, three of us were in crit, it was especially bad due to no real armor.

It was a goddamn clown massacre, And I can honestly say I have learned nothing that would change the outcome of this event, the spread is too hard to see or predict, robust combat requires too much moving around for this in a team setting, we dodged into our own lines of fire.

I'll just buy the machine gun next time, the shotgun can stay in the closet, or in my armor slot for when I inevitably wind up by myself.

[cedarbridge]

I'm going to be honest. Shotguns were fine with just taser slugs. They weren't lethal on their own, which sucked, but there was no friendly fire issue and you could always swap in specialized rounds or a different weapon for killshots anyway. Buckshot sucks and buckshot as default sucks more.

[TechnoAlchemist]

I really liked paprika's weapon voucher idea for ops before he got... Y'know. Just the same idea as mining vouchers except for specific types of guns/equipment for ops in addition to their TC.

[Scones]

I really liked paprika's weapon voucher idea for ops before he got... Y'know. Just the same idea as mining vouchers except for specific types of guns/equipment for ops in addition to their TC.

he dindu nuffin

Anyways, his surplus idea was decent; however, it was intended to be between:
- CR20
- 'surplus rifle' (Similar to that bolt-action admins can spawn)
- Grenade Launcher

But I wouldn't mind doing this for CR20/Bulldog/X, with X being something interesting, maybe random, drawing from a pool of double swords, flamers, and the LMG.

[cedarbridge]

I really liked paprika's weapon voucher idea for ops before he got... Y'know. Just the same idea as mining vouchers except for specific types of guns/equipment for ops in addition to their TC.

he dindu nuffin

Anyways, his surplus idea was decent; however, it was intended to be between:
- CR20
- 'surplus rifle' (Similar to that bolt-action admins can spawn)
- Grenade Launcher

But I wouldn't mind doing this for CR20/Bulldog/X, with X being something interesting, maybe random, drawing from a pool of double swords, flamers, and the LMG.

Unless X has a high chance of coming up garbage there's no reason it should contain high ticket items like the LMG or doubleswords.

[lumipharon]

The thing is why would you pick anything other then the c-20r?

The shotgun is a cool gun, but it's only viable because it has no cost for the gun itself, only ammo.
The c-20r has a gun cost, but it's got powerful bullets for 2 hit stuns, 20 round mags, and cheap ammo.
Bulldog mags are only 8 round or some shit, and cost just as much.

The nade launcher needs cheap nades for it to be viable, but would be neat (also hilariously dangerous to everyone including the ops).

[Steelpoint]

That's exactly the same argument I presented for the voucher system, essentially everyone would get a free c20r, meaning suddenly the game modes broken because the ops just bought 1000 TCs worth of equipment for free.

[imblyings]

Voucher system seems pretty cool.

There's also nothing stopping new weapons being added or existing weapons being modified to give a pool of balanced voucher weapons for syndies.

[Steelpoint]

The problem with the voucher system is that its giving Ops free equipment.

That by itself is not a bad thing, but the entire system would be better served by just spawning Ops with a C20r at round start as that's all they are going to take, now couple that with the free TC's they can spend on energy shields and suddenly you have a five man Ops team that can afford to arm themselves with C20rs and EShields, that's is a deadly combination.

[newfren]

Ok so don't include C20rs, give them a nerfed version that's more balanced like what imblyings literally just said. They already get free equipment in the form of the bulldog, this would just let them choose which piece of free equipment they want - we can balance that.

[Steelpoint]

Then at that point we're just throwing subpar equipment at Ops for the sake of it, which can start to clutter things.

[Loonikus]

Just tighten the spread on buckshot. Its spread is hilarious compared to how buckshot actually works, even if we are bending the rules of ballistics for the sake of gameplay.

Its spread should really only begin after about two tiles.

[lumipharon]

That's probably the best solution honestly.
It will still be an effective anti crowd weapon, but not hitting everything in the direction you shoot at.

[Xhuis]

healing pellets new meta when

Jokes aside, shotguns are the starter primary weapon for ops and I feel it's more balanced than the Bullpups they used to get.

[Steelpoint]

How many TC's did the Ops get as a whole back before the TC change where all the TC's were loaded onto one uplink?
Maybe it was more balanced simply because that while all Ops started with a c20 but they were more limited in spending tcs

[Tunder]

How many TC's did the Ops get as a whole back before the TC change where all the TC's were loaded onto one uplink?
Maybe it was more balanced simply because that while all Ops started with a c20 but they were more limited in spending tcs

That was exactly it. Ops were not given a fair shake, as the CR-20 and single TC radio were replaced with individual radios and more TC, but everything was made more expensive so Ops ended up nerfed, as I'm sure was the true intention of whoever snuck the changes in.

[Not-Dorsidarf]

https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/9800

Gives nuke ops shotguns that fire straight