Heads of Staff and Security: They're a fucking joke

[paprika]

Bottom post of the previous page:

>being robust doesn't make you good at heads

Into the trash it goes, classic 2m dead heads of staff during rev rounds nothing special

[Kuraudo]

Cheridan updated:
Flash mechanics changed. Instead of a knockdown effect, it will cause a stumbling effect. This includes area-flashing. The five-use-per-minute limit has been removed. "Synthetic" flashes made in the protolathe are now normal flashes.

A normal day in TG.

[Scott]

No maymays in my thread please.

[Cheridan]

Except it's not even a nerf. Area flashing is now more effective, you can use it to disable someone running away before following up with a baton. It can also be used as a mini-flashbang, disorienting a group so they don't sax away with the guy you're trying to arrest.
Why the hell do you want multiple items that do the same thing? Heads and security both have batons if you want a single-target melee range stunner.

[Malkevin]

Flashes are the best tool for moving prisoners, that was pretty much their use.

That and pwning borgs.

[lumipharon]

Yeah, the biggest + of flashes was you could safely use them to stun people as sec, without worrying about RNG disarm and getting beaten to death, which can happen with a baton.

[ColonicAcid]

>being robust doesn't make you good at heads

Into the trash it goes, classic 2m dead heads of staff during rev rounds nothing special

Except y'know that rev is a relatively low chance to happen and it's a well known fact that being robust -doesn't- make you good at people skills.

Heads is 90% people skills and 5% being good at the job, it's the same for managers as well, if you had a manager that was good at packing cheese but he was literally m-muh spaghetti when it came to talk to someone see how long he would last as a manager.

[cedarbridge]

>being robust doesn't make you good at heads

Into the trash it goes, classic 2m dead heads of staff during rev rounds nothing special

Except y'know that rev is a relatively low chance to happen and it's a well known fact that being robust -doesn't- make you good at people skills.

Heads is 90% people skills and 5% being good at the job, it's the same for managers as well, if you had a manager that was good at packing cheese but he was literally m-muh spaghetti when it came to talk to someone see how long he would last as a manager.

Our heads of staff are generally expected to be a bit more hands on than your typical plant manager. That said, I don't know why either of you is trying to make this a binary issue. Robustness and an average to exceptional level of charisma are both expected of heads of staff. A RD that doesn't have a clue how to science is useless, no matter how nice he is or how much his department loves him. Ironically, this doesn't work too much in reverse since our departments can essentially be staffed by one robust individual going full man-mode. Really the only way a head can be socially inept to the point of terrible is directly antagonizing his/her staff fnr or disrupting work that's already being done correctly.

[Raven776]

Honestly, I see the problem as the general diversity of all the threats in SS13.

Simply put, you will never KNOW how much you don't know. As a player whose been along forever, I'm still learning new things. People call me competent at certain jobs, but I still know there are horrendous gaps in my knowledge that I just never took the time to fill.

And there are other players who are around forever that are constantly surprised when I show THEM something. I showed someone who introduced me to the game the fact that you could drop a pill in a bottle and it would dissolve, letting you get fifty units of chloral in a beaker from ten units of water.

And the list goes on and on...

Simply put, you're probably not 'robust enough' by others' standards either. I know I wouldn't be robust by most people's standards, and I play Heads all the time to varying degrees of success.

[paprika]

>being robust doesn't make you good at heads

Into the trash it goes, classic 2m dead heads of staff during rev rounds nothing special

Except y'know that rev is a relatively low chance to happen and it's a well known fact that being robust -doesn't- make you good at people skills.

>HoS
>Most robust gear on the station at roundstart
>Not supposed to be robust
>Captain
>In charge of keeping the nuke disc safe
>dies within 5m and the round is over

[Cipher3]

>being robust doesn't make you good at heads

Into the trash it goes, classic 2m dead heads of staff during rev rounds nothing special

Except y'know that rev is a relatively low chance to happen and it's a well known fact that being robust -doesn't- make you good at people skills.

>HoS
>Most robust gear on the station at roundstart
>Not supposed to be robust
>Captain
>In charge of keeping the nuke disc safe
>dies within 5m and the round is over

But you're not arguing that being robust makes you good at heads, which is what you implied. A head can dunk people and defend his department with a torn banner and screams of unbridled robust passion and still be incompetent.

[paprika]

>being robust doesn't make you good at heads

Into the trash it goes, classic 2m dead heads of staff during rev rounds nothing special

Except y'know that rev is a relatively low chance to happen and it's a well known fact that being robust -doesn't- make you good at people skills.

>HoS
>Most robust gear on the station at roundstart
>Not supposed to be robust
>Captain
>In charge of keeping the nuke disc safe
>dies within 5m and the round is over

But you're not arguing that being robust makes you good at heads, which is what you implied. A head can dunk people and defend his department with a torn banner and screams of unbridled robust passion and still be incompetent.

Proof?

[Cipher3]

I don't even. Try to prove to me how an ability to take down three Sec officers with a toolbox helps you be good at RnD, stop the roboticist from running off with mechs, and teach the newbie xenobiologist how to breed slimes. I mean, am I on candid camera? No I get it! The thread about how heads of staff are a joke, is actually a joke. Wow, I'm slow. Good one, Paprika.

[paprika]

Well robust has more to do with combat skills and if you were robust you'd know that but you don't because you're a pleb unrobust scrublord "literally king of fucking scrubs" that can't even max RnD in 10 minutes

[Cipher3]

Well robust has more to do with combat skills and if you were robust you'd know that but you don't because you're a pleb unrobust scrublord "literally king of fucking scrubs" that can't even max RnD in 10 minutes

Joke confirmed. Sorry for the misunderstanding, I thought we were actually holding opposite opinions for a while.

[Scott]

No, he's right. Being robust is not only about combat.

[Steelpoint]

Robust is a oft misused term. Just being good at combat alone does not make you robust.

Being robust is being able to respond to a sudden situation and come out of it alive if not swinging. Being robust is the difference between you dying in to a raging plasma fire in a locked room versus you jumping in the disposals unit and sailing away alive.

[Raven776]

It's also the ability to invest in other people to claim the same victory. A robust person doesn't have to live, they just have to win. What that means is up to deadchat to decide.

[cedarbridge]

A good telescientist can loot a checklist of stuff from space. A robust one can shoot the clown into the singulo while it and the clown are moving.

[Arete]

So as always everything depends on security. Heads dont need better weapons or idiotic remote firing devices, they just need support of security.

I do not think there is an init option in the code to make security good.

[Arete]

You cant decree everything by code.

You can decree more by code than you can by doing nothing at all. Saying "security just needs to get better" is completely useless. If the desired outcome is for people to obey the chain of command, and that's not happening, then something should be changed in either the coding or the policy to bring about that outcome.

[Arete]

If it were an easy fix, it would have been done already.

The first step is for people to stop saying "git gud" and start being willing to try new things. I'm not advocating a particular solution here, I'm telling you that your post wasn't constructive.

[Incomptinence]

The heads did get a new weapon they got tele-batons ported. It helps. It helps a lot.
A flash is a situational weapon and we were giving it as lone armament in some departments where people wear flash protection for a living or LITERALLY BUILD WELDING MASKS.
Also with hand flash changes flashes no longer stun they stumble you now. Countered by learning to stand still and punch your boss in the face, brilliant.

[Steelpoint]

The telebaton was a good addition for heads of staff.

On the issue of the flash alteration. Its a combination of a nerf against Humans and a buff against Silicon's. Since Silicon's are still stunned by the flash but now it won't burn out unexpectedly.

[Lo6a4evskiy]

Borgs don't have a good way to stun any more. Which is actually good, in my honest opinion.

[cedarbridge]

Borgs don't have a good way to stun any more. Which is actually good, in my honest opinion.

I'd expect to see a rise in secborg ratios incidentally.

[Reimoo]

The telebaton was a good addition for heads of staff.

On the issue of the flash alteration. Its a combination of a nerf against Humans and a buff against Silicon's. Since Silicon's are still stunned by the flash but now it won't burn out unexpectedly.

So why was the effect against humans changed but the effect against cyborgs wasn't?

[Cipher3]

The telebaton was a good addition for heads of staff.

On the issue of the flash alteration. Its a combination of a nerf against Humans and a buff against Silicon's. Since Silicon's are still stunned by the flash but now it won't burn out unexpectedly.

So why was the effect against humans changed but the effect against cyborgs wasn't?

Well, making it weak against silicons would make them insanely strong. You'd have to use an ion rifle to stop them, that or sheer damage.

[paprika]

Ion rifle really doesn't do more than sheer damage, it barely stuns anymore. All it does is some internal wiring damage and drains their cell, but it's still p bad.

[Murazor]

Unfortunately authority on TG is not given, its taken. As a head of staff ask sec to help you demote people who don't follow your orders. That is unfortunately the best way to ensure a department follows your orders.

But back on the original topic, yes I think security should be robust, however I think the best solution would be a deviation from the current system where its timelocked. Instead have it so someone has to play a heads underling for so many rounds before moving up. That way they know how to the role functions. For sec it could be Officer>Warden>HoS. Also I think the QM needs to be made into a head of staff, and the HoP merely have authority over the civilian jobs.