The death of Box station?

[peoplearestrange]

Bottom post of the previous page:

If you have feedback for the metastation map it be great to plonk it in the feedback thread for it.
https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=3090

As Tornadium says it is a different playstyle to box being a very different map, however a rotation in how you play the game can be a great thing. It helps keep it fresh and means you end up with new things to work with.

[Anonmare]

The affairs of Sybil don't really bother me too much but, from my understanding Metastation was voted in. If that's the case then let it run a few rounds and do another vote, there's no reason we can't have two servers with different layouts. Let's not enforce a false dichotomy of only being able to have one layout or another

[Scott]

Except bagil runs meta 24/7, only sybil is changing maps. Which means people who want to play box are out of luck.

[Anonmare]

I was led to believe there would be another vote. Am I mistaken in thinking this?

[Scones]

Box is still the /tg/ defacto and a lot of people like it. If we enter rotation/votes, box should become 24/7 on our SECOND SERVER. Which is MADE TO BE SECONDARY.

[TheWiznard]

Box is still the /tg/ defacto and a lot of people like it. If we enter rotation/votes, box should become 24/7 on our SECOND SERVER. Which is MADE TO BE SECONDARY.

technically the second server already runs box 24/7

[Scones]

"w-well technically!!!"

You know what I meant.

[Scott]

Box is still the /tg/ defacto and a lot of people like it. If we enter rotation/votes, box should become 24/7 on our SECOND SERVER. Which is MADE TO BE SECONDARY.

technically the second server already runs box 24/7

Old trick to get people to play in the other server, it never worked. Sybil is still the primary server.

[TheWiznard]

"w-well technically!!!"

You know what I meant.

Old trick to get people to play in the other server, it never worked. Sybil is still the primary server.

edit: fuck clicked submit writing a new edit now

I'm just trying to joke really, I don't care about forcing other people to play meta. In my mind I still think that it's not my favorite map like meta but as long as things are now who am I to complain? There is a server for box and one for meta and now we're actually getting decent pop on basil (even if I have a hard time playing now with my shitty internet). I don't see a reason to change that

[Scott]

There is a server for meta 24/7 and a server that alternates between box and meta.

[Steelpoint]

But here's the question.

Why should the map that is the most popular not be the one hosted primarily on one server? Yet the alternative map that is less popular is the one that gets its own hosted server?

I still disagree with having map swapping on the servers.

[Not-Dorsidarf]

But here's the question.

Why should the map that is the most popular not be the one hosted primarily on one server? Yet the alternative map that is less popular is the one that gets its own hosted server?

I still disagree with having map swapping on the servers.

If the alternative map is less popular then why do the actual players keep actually voting to have it on their favorite server?

I'm pretty sure there are actually fewer "Must play box only box will die without box" than there are people who play currently on the metastation-only server (and that's saying something!). I've genuinely only seen this mindset on the forums and singulo. Not everyone likes meta as much as box, but it seems like people playing the game aren't so hugely bothered by it, seeing as they keep voting to play it on the box server

[Amelius]

Meta is only voted in for the novelty factor. If you kept it in 24/7, people would start seeing the massive, gaping flaws of the map and how most of the antags we have are balanced for Box, and simply function either massively OP or UP on Meta.

[TheNightingale]

Meta is only voted in for the novelty factor. If you kept it in 24/7, people would start seeing the massive, gaping flaws of the map and how most of the antags we have are balanced for Box, and simply function either massively OP or UP on Meta.

Or, alternatively, some people prefer Meta to Box because they genuinely like the map.

[Oldman Robustin]

I don't have any huge complaints against Meta, but I'm completely against the current proposal of close to 50/50 map splits. Meta is fine when its a BREAK from the ORDINARY, when it becomes the ordinary it becomes an entirely different beast.

Right now if I yell "HELP BEING MURDERED IN LOCKER ROOM" roughly 2/5ths of security won't even know where that is, I'm not joking. There's always a rotation of fresh player in most roles and it's difficult enough for them to learn a station layout.

Now make it two station with very opposing design styles. Every time we jump to Meta the game mode might as well switch to "Maint Exploration Mode", nobody does their job and everyone screws around exploring. That will die down if we go 50/50 but what won't die down is the exacerbation of incompetence as new players are expected to learn not one, but two station layouts in order to be effective crew members.

I'm not a fan of screaming "DYING IN BATHROOMS" on Meta and literally having nobody know where that is or how to get there. It will never be an absolute barrier, but I can definitely see round quality deteriorating when the large number of inexperienced/unrobust/still-learning players can't do their job effectively because they're getting lost on the two maps. I'm not in favor of deteriorating the quality of our game just to "spice things up". I've played this game for an absurd amount of time and I can tell you, if you think the map is getting stale... it's not, the game is getting stale for you and a new map is just putting it on life support until you realize that having departments re-arranged doesn't really change the fundamental game experience.

People will argue that players will adapt to two maps and nothing will change. That's pure, unadulterated BS. Any experienced player will truthfully tell you that average player quality has not gone up. We've been here for years and there has never been a slow steady improvement in robustness. I just watched a HEADMIN die to radiation while playing CE, with the rad-shielded hardsuit IN HIS HAND, while adjusting the PA for a stage 4 sing. If you split the maps 50/50 you're going to see a significant deterioration in crew quality. Low crew quality = Low Round quality. We want to see the station get nuked because the Ops swept in, used teamwork and tactics to overwhelm the station defenses and get dat disk. We don't want to see the station get nuked because the captain was attacked in robotics and only 2 crew members actually knew where that was and how to get there.

If you really want 50/50 map chance then honestly ask yourself if you think the AVERAGE crew/security member will be competent enough to learn all the critical locations on both maps.

[DemonFiren]

Hell, I know both maps more or less by heart. It's not rocket science.

If anything, the problem would be worse if Meta was less frequent.

[Tornadium]

It takes one round, maybe two to learn a map layout. If it takes you any longer than that then you literally must have the worst recall in the entire universe.

[peoplearestrange]

I think everythings been discussed here now. It's just becoming an "i'm right and you're wrong because I said so".